Keon Tyrese Ellis

Should the Kings start Keon Ellis?

  • Yes

  • No

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Keon has to start when fox comes back it just makes too much sense there’s too many cooks in the kitchen with monk starting. Keon and keeegan defending to start off is better for the team. Also imagine we trade for Collins how amazing is our bench when you have monk/Collins running pick and rolls with Carter out there as well
 
LT-Sac-Town said:
Said it would cost MB his job. Cost MB his job. Reap the benefits
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At this point I don’t have any ill-will towards MB. I’d say we would deserve a ring if we ever got one but he already got his. He broke the drought and helped change the culture here. His time ran its course, I’m just thankful the org made the right decision and DC is correcting his mistakes.
 
megapoxy said:
He also said "With Doug Christie as a coach there are not so many rules to follow", I guess those kept him from playing much during the MB era.


https://twitter.com/x/status/1876535248424722845
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The thing about “we’re all pros and we immediately know when we made a mistake and what we did wrong” is something I’ve been thinking a lot about. If MB’s thing was “rules” and “accountability” but about super basic stuff, that’s sorta dumbing down the team. “Simplifying” the game under Doug vs a “complex” system under MB might be a misnomer if the stuff MB was focused on was stuff guys at that level should already know. Having more rules and being strict about them doesn’t make the end product more complex it just gives players too much crap to think about when they should just be playing
 
captain bill said:
At this point I don’t have any ill-will towards MB. I’d say we would deserve a ring if we ever got one but he already got his. He broke the drought and helped change the culture here. His time ran its course, I’m just thankful the org made the right decision and DC is correcting his mistakes.
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No ill-will to MB and nothing what respect for what he did. Just having some fun.
 
ShastaKingsFan said:
He even said it outright. Doug gives him more rope and allows him to play through mistakes. Tells him to just make it up on the other end.

Probably the perfect head coach for him, among many others
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Perfect microcosm was last night when Keon missed the FT for us to take the lead. Went out and gave him a hug.

That mentality is so conducive to staying in a good head space. "Don't worry about it young fella, just go make the next play". Keeps the guys loose and not so uptight
 
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The_Jamal said:
Perfect microcosm was last night when Keon missed the FT for us to take the lead. Went out and gave him a hug.

That mentality is so conducive to staying in a good head space. "Don't worry about it youn fella, just go make the next play". Keeps the guys loose and not so uptight
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Be supportive of your players down in the trenches and they would run through walls for you.
 
The_Jamal said:
Perfect microcosm was last night when Keon missed the FT for us to take the lead. Went out and gave him a hug.

That mentality is so conducive to staying in a good head space. "Don't worry about it young fella, just go make the next play". Keeps the guys loose and not so uptight
Click to expand...

Quite a few players have talked about playing more loose or free. No one is really directly criticizing Brown in the media (at least that I've heard) but it's clear that they were all looking over their shoulders on every mistake previously. Especially guys like Keon.
 
funkykingston said:
Quite a few players have talked about playing more loose or free. No one is really directly criticizing Brown in the media (at least that I've heard) but it's clear that they were all looking over their shoulders on every mistake previously. Especially guys like Keon.
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I was initially upset with firing brown. However, you can tell a difference in the demeanor of players. Maybe it’s a bit of “winning cures all” but you see how guys like Keon are thriving. Doug is out there supporting these guys and they are responding.

Way less hesitation from everyone out there.
 
Srzly said:
I was initially upset with firing brown. However, you can tell a difference in the demeanor of players. Maybe it’s a bit of “winning cures all” but you see how guys like Keon are thriving. Doug is out there supporting these guys and they are responding.

Way less hesitation from everyone out there.
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It's fair to question how much of the current good vibes have to do with the win streak, but at least to my eyes this team looks like they are playing with more pace and having more fun now than they were earlier in the season, even when the Kings had a couple 3 win streaks under Brown.
 
captain bill said:
The thing about “we’re all pros and we immediately know when we made a mistake and what we did wrong” is something I’ve been thinking a lot about. If MB’s thing was “rules” and “accountability” but about super basic stuff, that’s sorta dumbing down the team. “Simplifying” the game under Doug vs a “complex” system under MB might be a misnomer if the stuff MB was focused on was stuff guys at that level should already know. Having more rules and being strict about them doesn’t make the end product more complex it just gives players too much crap to think about when they should just be playing
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After the Lakers game (I think) they asked Doug about Keon and he said he's important and he needs to shoot more and have the confidence to do it. I'm guessing one of the "rules" was that he lets the shooters shoot which is why he was timid to shoot in the Lakers game (didn't really notice that but Doug did).
 
funkykingston said:
It's fair to question how much of the current good vibes have to do with the win streak, but at least to my eyes this team looks like they are playing with more pace and having more fun now than they were earlier in the season, even when the Kings had a couple 3 win streaks under Brown.
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They haven't played this way since 2023 imho. Whether it was the weight of expectations post playoffs as a fun young team to watch or it was Mike Brown adding elements to the schemes that failed, I watched almost every game last season and don't recall ever enjoying a night as much as I have the last few games.
 
Speaking of Keon, I’d have to assume we plan on declining the club option this offseason and making him a restricted free agent. On the other hand, we could keep him on the cheap for one more year and then sign him using bird rights. Both options are potentially risky. If we decline the option and make him restricted, the Nets or Wizards could come offer him some big deal like say 4 years for $70 mil. If we pick up the option we would have him for one more season and then would have to hope he wants to sign with us. Herb Jones got 4 years at 53 million. That’s now considered a big time bargain and he isn’t even shooting the three well. Does Keon have a case to potentially get more than this if his recent play continues even in the inevitable reduced minutes? What are your thoughts on this cap experts? @twslam07 @Capt. Factorial
 
iowamcnabb said:
Speaking of Keon, I’d have to assume we plan on declining the club option this offseason and making him a restricted free agent. On the other hand, we could keep him on the cheap for one more year and then sign him using bird rights. Both options are potentially risky. If we decline the option and make him restricted, the Nets or Wizards could come offer him some big deal like say 4 years for $70 mil. If we pick up the option we would have him for one more season and then would have to hope he wants to sign with us. Herb Jones got 4 years at 53 million. That’s now considered a big time bargain and he isn’t even shooting the three well. Does Keon have a case to potentially get more than this if his recent play continues even in the inevitable reduced minutes? What are your thoughts on this cap experts? @twslam07 @Capt. Factorial
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I'm not Capt or TW, but there's no shot we let him go be a UFA after next season. We could keep him with bird rights, but you're losing all your team control.

I'd have no problem with a 4/70 type deal if it came to it and he continued to ball out this year. That's very cheap for a starter, especially with the cap expected to continue to rise.

The Herb deal seems like a good comp though and I'm pretty sure he had an all defensive team award when he signed it?
 
The_Jamal said:
I'm not Capt or TW, but there's no shot we let him go be a UFA after next season. We could keep him with bird rights, but you're losing all your team control.

I'd have no problem with a 4/70 type deal if it came to it and he continued to ball out this year
The Herb deal seems like a good comp though and I'm pretty sure he was an all defensive team award when he signed it?
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yeh I just figure that because that Herb deal is so great that Keon’s agent will be pushing for more and a team like the Nets have the room to do it. The other thing to consider is how does this affect our standing with the Aprons and luxury tax? I believe TW had Keon getting something around 50 mil but that was in 26/27 if I remember right.
 
iowamcnabb said:
Speaking of Keon, I’d have to assume we plan on declining the club option this offseason and making him a restricted free agent. On the other hand, we could keep him on the cheap for one more year and then sign him using bird rights. Both options are potentially risky. If we decline the option and make him restricted, the Nets or Wizards could come offer him some big deal like say 4 years for $70 mil. If we pick up the option we would have him for one more season and then would have to hope he wants to sign with us. Herb Jones got 4 years at 53 million. That’s now considered a big time bargain and he isn’t even shooting the three well. Does Keon have a case to potentially get more than this if his recent play continues even in the inevitable reduced minutes? What are your thoughts on this cap experts? @twslam07 @Capt. Factorial
Click to expand...
@Capt. Factorial can come in over the top and clean this up if I have it wrong. ;)

If we decline Ellis' option this offseason, he becomes a Restricted Free Agent. And considering he would have only been under contract for 2 seasons with us, we will only have his Early Bird rights. I say "only" but this actually is a good thing for us. With Early Bird rights, you can offer a max of 175% of their previous salary or 105% of the league average salary from the previous season (whichever number is higher).

Playing out both of those calculations as it relates to Ellis...
  1. 175% of Previous Salary: Ellis is only making $2,120,693 mil this year which means we could offer him a max of $3,711,213 in the 1st year of his new contract.
  2. 105% of Previous League Average Salary: The 2024-25 league average salary is reportedly $11,910,649 so that would would mean we could offer him a max of $12,506,181 in the 1st year of his new contract
Since the 2nd figure is higher, that would mean the max we could offer him in his 1st year of his new contract would be $12,506,181. And Early Bird rights allow us to resign him for 4 years with 8% raises which means the max contract offer we can give him would be $55,085,977 over 4 years. I realllly like that deal for Ellis. ;)

Now someone could technically offer him a larger contract, but him being a RFA, we'd have the ability to match. However, Ellis would fall under the Arenas provision (similar to Herb Jones, Austin Reaves, etc.) which forces them to structure the contract in a way so that it is backloaded. This is the max contract a team could offer Ellis and how it would be restructured (not saying someone would actually offer him this though)...
  1. Year 1: $14,105,000 (the non-taxpayer MLE)
  2. Year 2: $14,810,250 (5% raise)
  3. Year 3: $46,780,750 (25% max salary)
  4. Year 4: $51,458,750 (25% max salary)

So Ellis could technically be offered a max of $127,154,750 over 4 years. If Ellis is offered a backloaded contract like this and we match it, the cap hits would be exactly how it is laid out above. However, if we don't match the contract, the competing team would have the luxury of smoothing the $127 mil across all 4 years (vs. having the huge jumps in year 3 and year 4).



I would definitely be in favor of declining his option. Trying to resign him as a RFA vs. a UFA is huge, and being capped by what we can offer extension wise is sort of a plus as well. It would be similar to Monk's situation ("sorry Monk! We wish we could offer you more but this is the max the CBA allows us to give you"). We can offer Ellis that max extension before FA and see if he is bold enough to test the restricted free agency market. For a guy who has made less than $3 mil for his career, it would be pretty bold to turn down a $55 mil contract staring you in the face and risk restricted free agency. And for us, having Ellis locked up on a 4 year $55 mil deal seems like really solid value.
 
twslam07 said:
@Capt. Factorial can come in over the top and clean this up if I have it wrong. ;)

If we decline Ellis' option this offseason, he becomes a Restricted Free Agent. And considering he would have only been under contract for 2 seasons with us, we will only have his Early Bird rights. I say "only" but this actually is a good thing for us. With Early Bird rights, you can offer a max of 175% of their previous salary or 105% of the league average salary from the previous season (whichever number is higher).

Playing out both of those calculations as it relates to Ellis...
  1. 175% of Previous Salary: Ellis is only making $2,120,693 mil this year which means we could offer him a max of $3,711,213 in the 1st year of his new contract.
  2. 105% of Previous League Average Salary: The 2024-25 league average salary is reportedly $11,910,649 so that would would mean we could offer him a max of $12,506,181 in the 1st year of his new contract
Since the 2nd figure is higher, that would mean the max we could offer him in his 1st year of his new contract would be $12,506,181. And Early Bird rights allow us to resign him for 4 years with 8% raises which means the max contract offer we can give him would be $55,085,977 over 4 years. I realllly like that deal for Ellis. ;)

Now someone could technically offer him a larger contract, but him being a RFA, we'd have the ability to match. However, Ellis would fall under the Arenas provision (similar to Herb Jones, Austin Reaves, etc.) which forces them to structure the contract in a way so that it is backloaded. This is the max contract a team could offer Ellis and how it would be restructured (not saying someone would actually offer him this though)...
  1. Year 1: $14,105,000 (the non-taxpayer MLE)
  2. Year 2: $14,810,250 (5% raise)
  3. Year 3: $46,780,750 (25% max salary)
  4. Year 4: $51,458,750 (25% max salary)

So Ellis could technically be offered a max of $127,154,750 over 4 years. If Ellis is offered a backloaded contract like this and we match it, the cap hits would be exactly how it is laid out above. However, if we don't match the contract, the competing team would have the luxury of smoothing the $127 mil across all 4 years (vs. having the huge jumps in year 3 and year 4).



I would definitely be in favor of declining his option. Trying to resign him as a RFA vs. a UFA is huge, and being capped by what we can offer extension wise is sort of a plus as well. It would be similar to Monk's situation ("sorry Monk! We wish we could offer you more but this is the max the CBA allows us to give you"). We can offer Ellis that max extension before FA and see if he is bold enough to test the restricted free agency market. For a guy who has made less than $3 mil for his career, it would be pretty bold to turn down a $55 mil contract staring you in the face and risk restricted free agency. And for us, having Ellis locked up on a 4 year $55 mil deal seems like really solid value.
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according to a post by Captain earlier and for clarification this post was made during the end of last season

“OK, so this is actually tricky.

We had Keon on a Two-Way last year. We have him currently on a two-year deal with a team option for a third year. Since Keon did play in the NBA (16 games) last season, he established a year of service time. This year is year two of service time. Next year is year three of service time.”

Based on that there is no cap on what we can offer correct?
 
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iowamcnabb said:
according to a post by Captain earlier and for clarification this post was befoe the season:

“OK, so this is actually tricky.

We had Keon on a Two-Way last year. We have him currently on a two-year deal with a team option for a third year. Since Keon did play in the NBA (16 games) last season, he established a year of service time. This year is year two of service time. Next year is year three of service time.”

Based on that there is no cap on what we can offer correct?
Click to expand...
“This year is year two of service time”

So if we decline his option next season, he would have only had two years of service time with us which means we would only have his Early Bird rights (this capping how much we can offer him). If we pickup his option next season with plans to resign him long term during the 2026 off-season, this means he would have had 3 years of service time with us and we’d have his full Bird Rights meaning there would be no cap to what we could offer him (well the cap would be a 25% max but you get the idea).

The issue with trying to resign him after 3 years of service (2026 off-season) instead of 2 years of service (2025 off-season), is that he would be a UFA during the 2026 off-season while he’d be a RFA during the 2025 off-season.

I’d much prefer to try and resign him during the 2025 off-season when…
  1. We’re artificially capped by the CBA
  2. He is a RFA
 
Money today is more valuable than money tomorrow, I am sure Ellis would be happier having us decline the option and working out a nice deal that might leave future money on the table but secure him 4 years of big time $$$.
 
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