Jones: How Bagley can help immediately

twslam07 said:
I agree. He has the athleticism to certainly do it but he needs to work on that part of his game.
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What’s hilarious is that there are opinions out there that claimed we’d pass on Luka for a “go-to” scorer. I guess we’ll see what happens.
 
206Fan said:
Through the 10+ games I've seen of Bagley, I have never come away with the idea that he could create his own shot.
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Anyone that truly believes that I suggest they go to that youtube site, pick a game, almost any game he played, and it's in there somewhere. Multiple times most likely. Sometimes he even gobbles up the misses and throws it right back down.
 
SacTownKid said:
Anyone that truly believes that I suggest they go to that youtube site, pick a game, almost any game he played, and it's in there somewhere. Multiple times most likely. Sometimes he even gobbles up the misses and throws it right back down.
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from the games I've watched, he only creates his own shot like 2-3 times. lots of his points from lobs, fastbreak, put backs, or finishes around the basket. As you said, he gobbles misses and puts it back up. that's not shot creating.
 
The Kings made the safe choice. You can just about guarantee the Kings will be a better rebounding team. They will run the floor better. They will have more offense at the 4. Defense is a question mark, but many great college players have to learn to play D when they get here.
 
ppine said:
The Kings made the safe choice. You can just about guarantee the Kings will be a better rebounding team. They will run the floor better. They will have more offense at the 4. Defense is a question mark, but many great college players have to learn to play D when they get here.
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You have some great takes that mirror my thoughts,
 
I watched some Duke games to see how Bagley played defensively.
Wow his defense was terrible....
He constantly lost his man, and he didn’t seem to aware guys behind him since his focus was on ball movement way too much. Just terrible court awareness and defensive instincts... are those fixable with more game experiences?? Only positive I could see here was he had very good lateral quickness to stay with some guards.
 
jenijeni2015 said:
I watched some Duke games to see how Bagley played defensively.
Wow his defense was terrible....
He constantly lost his man, and he didn’t seem to aware guys behind him since his focus was on ball movement way too much. Just terrible court awareness and defensive instincts... are those fixable with more game experiences?? Only positive I could see here was he had very good lateral quickness to stay with some guards.
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Bad instincts defensively almost never turn to good instincts in the Nba
 
jenijeni2015 said:
I watched some Duke games to see how Bagley played defensively.
Wow his defense was terrible....
He constantly lost his man, and he didn’t seem to aware guys behind him since his focus was on ball movement way too much. Just terrible court awareness and defensive instincts... are those fixable with more game experiences?? Only positive I could see here was he had very good lateral quickness to stay with some guards.
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Defensive awareness is probably one of the easier things to correct. Requires practice and lots of game tape, but he could correct those issues of gawking at the ball all the time. Shot blocking will probably never be very good, but maybe he could get to Cousins level of 1.5ish a game.

He's got the physical tools to be an average defender, if he's willing to put in the work on that end.
 
Sac.Kings said:
Defensive awareness is probably one of the easier things to correct. Requires practice and lots of game tape, but he could correct those issues of gawking at the ball all the time. Shot blocking will probably never be very good, but maybe he could get to Cousins level of 1.5ish a game.

He's got the physical tools to be an average defender, if he's willing to put in the work on that end.
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Not true. Its extreamly difficult to "teach" instincts if the player really lacked them in college. You can improve them but it most definetly isnt easy to correct. Its often something you either have or you dont and then you can moderately improve that through experience.

Effort is easy to correct. In a lot of cases where mediocre college defenders turn out to be even good defenders in the Nba is about effort for example Ben Simmons. But you have to have those instincts to become a good defender and its not something you just teach
 
Gguod said:
Apparently you can be a draft guru and decide not to watch any games of the concensus #2 pick and just say you wouldnt touch him top 10
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The embarrassing part is people in here taking it as gospel even after he says he did lent watch Luka. I mean how do you take some serious who says they wouldn’t touch him in the top 10
 
Gguod said:
Not true. Its extreamly difficult to "teach" instincts if the player really lacked them in college. You can improve them but it most definetly isnt easy to correct. Its often something you either have or you dont and then you can moderately improve that through experience.

Effort is easy to correct. In a lot of cases where mediocre college defenders turn out to be even good defenders in the Nba is about effort for example Ben Simmons. But you have to have those instincts to become a good defender and its not something you just teach
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Exactly, awareness is something you can’t teach sorta like intangibles



And if I here Vlade day fit one more time man. It’s dumber than his I had a better trade 2 days ago crap
 
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Gguod said:
Not true. Its extreamly difficult to "teach" instincts if the player really lacked them in college. You can improve them but it most definetly isnt easy to correct. Its often something you either have or you dont and then you can moderately improve that through experience.

Effort is easy to correct. In a lot of cases where mediocre college defenders turn out to be even good defenders in the Nba is about effort for example Ben Simmons. But you have to have those instincts to become a good defender and its not something you just teach
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Have you ever joined a new job that was completely foreign to you or even just a new job in a field that you're familiar with? What happens there? You learn what you have to in order to be successful. These kids aren't stupid my friend, they can learn to not always stare at the ball and to be effective at team defense. It takes time and dedication but it can be done.

I also never said teach instincts, you assumed that on your own. It's not about instincts. It's about discipline. With repetition it's possible. However, because of some bad habits he's had I'm not likely to say he can be a great defender, but with his physical abilities he should be average at least in time.

What has happened to the world when a 19 year old kid either has something or doesn't and can seemingly never improve upon deficits? Bagley wasn't my first choice but even I am willing to give him some time. He's no scrub.
 
Sac.Kings said:
Have you ever joined a new job that was completely foreign to you or even just a new job in a field that you're familiar with? What happens there? You learn what you have to in order to be successful. These kids aren't stupid my friend, they can learn to not always stare at the ball and to be effective at team defense. It takes time and dedication but it can be done.

I also never said teach instincts, you assumed that on your own. It's not about instincts. It's about discipline. With repetition it's possible. However, because of some bad habits he's had I'm not likely to say he can be a great defender, but with his physical abilities he should be average at least in time.

What has happened to the world when a 19 year old kid either has something or doesn't and can seemingly never improve upon deficits? Bagley wasn't my first choice but even I am willing to give him some time. He's no scrub.
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Its simply looking at history and predicting things based on how things have usually happened. Nothing more, nothing less. If you want to predict that Bagley will be an outlier, fine by me. But all I'm saying based on history, he would be an outlier to go from bad defensive instincts to good defensive instincts. And based on history, teaching instincts isnt easy to do. Its extreamly rare.
 
206Fan said:
from the games I've watched, he only creates his own shot like 2-3 times. lots of his points from lobs, fastbreak, put backs, or finishes around the basket. As you said, he gobbles misses and puts it back up. that's not shot creating.
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Yeah it is, especially when they are his own misses. DMC was really good at that as well. Shot creating isn't just creating with the ball either although he did plenty of that. He positioned himself off the ball and in the post while setting up good passing angles. That's a huge underrated part of a big mans game.
 
Gguod said:
Its simply looking at history and predicting things based on how things have usually happened. Nothing more, nothing less. If you want to predict that Bagley will be an outlier, fine by me. But all I'm saying based on history, he would be an outlier to go from bad defensive instincts to good defensive instincts. And based on history, teaching instincts isnt easy to do. Its extreamly rare.
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You also have to figure how much system plays a factor. I'm sure those young players at Duke were experiencing their first go at a full zone defense. Good defensive instincts in one system can completely disappear in another.
 
Gguod said:
Its simply looking at history and predicting things based on how things have usually happened. Nothing more, nothing less. If you want to predict that Bagley will be an outlier, fine by me. But all I'm saying based on history, he would be an outlier to go from bad defensive instincts to good defensive instincts. And based on history, teaching instincts isnt easy to do. Its extreamly rare.
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I never even suggested that he will be a good defensive player. I said average in time. As in he won't be a liability on the defensive end. I'm not that worried about it for him, he's got the drive to improve in that area. Discipline goes a long way and Joerger is definitely good at that. He has shown he's not afraid to bench anyone at any time. He will show him the way.

I don't enjoy people talking about rookies in absolutes. Will never get better. Will never have good instincts, etc. You can't possibly know that and it's just plain unfair. I'm curious as to what the kid has in store for us, because Divac is simply blown away by him, more so than Fox or any of the other draft picks he's made. He was gushing yesterday, I've never seen him like that. All I am saying is to give the kid a chance to show what he can and can't do on an NBA floor.
 
206Fan said:
from the games I've watched, he only creates his own shot like 2-3 times. lots of his points from lobs, fastbreak, put backs, or finishes around the basket. As you said, he gobbles misses and puts it back up. that's not shot creating.
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Wait. Which is it? First you indicated you thought he could NEVER create his own shot and how it's 2-3 times. If you watch those 10 games again, maybe it'll go up again. ;)
 
Could MB3's ceiling be Antetokounmpo? Looks like they have similar body types, MB3 is listed at 6'11 235lb and a 7'1 wingspan and Giannis is listed at 6'11 222lbs with a 7'3 wingspan (his draft profile says he was 6'9 196lbs when he was drafted).
 
206Fan said:
Through the 10+ games I've seen of Bagley, I have never come away with the idea that he could create his own shot.
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You are wrong about this! Marvin does the euro-step like a guard! He's a savant at positioning himself to finish, thats his game.... He doesn't get tested that often so it kind of just looks like utter dominance.

Duke wasted so much time, and frankly their national title chances, letting Grayson Allen run the offense, and various other mistakes Coach K made with that roster throughout the season.

Marvin's arsenal of moves aren't like your old style post moves because he doesn't need to get you off balance or bowl you over with strength, he has the athletic advantage, he can simply go past you or over you and he is capable of all sorts of high degree of difficulty acrobatic finishes, plus if he misses close to the basket his 2nd jump is catlike up for the putback.


He's a space eater offensively. in that lurking dunk position right outside of the paint (1 foot in) on the baseline Bagley is a dangerous weapon for the Kings to have, If Fox beats his man on the perimeter it's gonna end up as a Bagley bucket or foul, a lot.
 
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