Sounds like politics to me at the possible expense of optimal performance, if true. But yes its still early. Fans are wondering about optimal rotations, and its a work-in-progress so its something to discuss. Not to mention early in the season fans are still hoping for a good start.
Joerger: Tanking, incompetent or ? (With poll)
- Thread starter GoSACtown
- Start date
Sounds like politics to me at the possible expense of optimal performance, if true. But yes its still early. Fans are wondering about optimal rotations, and its a work-in-progress so its something to discuss. Not to mention early in the season fans are still hoping for a good start.
Bosnian Diehard
Starter
I was confused as well at the game, but Joerger said in the post-gane that he was hurt.
The same guys that performed and scored so well in the first quarter either would not take a shot or did and missed it in the second half. Le’s not blame rotation for reluctance to take open shots or take and miss shots. The coaches and us fans continue to learn about our players and the team game. It’s going to pay off.
Coach J knows what he is doing. His problem is that he has a team composed of kids and old men.
They all lack confidence. It makes it hard for them to win close games. The third quarter last night was hard to watch. The Kings' had the right players in the right positions, but could not knock down wide open shots. It is not the coach's fault for bad rotations, or using the wrong personnel. He is struggling with getting his players to believe in themselves.
Playing in the NBA is very intimidating. Everyone is big and strong. The game goes by at a 1,000 mph. It takes time for the young players one year out of high school to adjust. The old guys are not sure they still have it. Winning will cure a lot of the complaining. The coach has kept his players in every game. The Kings are capable of putting together a winning streak. They need to come and fast, and learn to close out games.
They all lack confidence. It makes it hard for them to win close games. The third quarter last night was hard to watch. The Kings' had the right players in the right positions, but could not knock down wide open shots. It is not the coach's fault for bad rotations, or using the wrong personnel. He is struggling with getting his players to believe in themselves.
Playing in the NBA is very intimidating. Everyone is big and strong. The game goes by at a 1,000 mph. It takes time for the young players one year out of high school to adjust. The old guys are not sure they still have it. Winning will cure a lot of the complaining. The coach has kept his players in every game. The Kings are capable of putting together a winning streak. They need to come and fast, and learn to close out games.
macadocious
Starter
He was also awful in the first half, whats your point. Oh, and BTW, Temple (who plays the same position as buddy) was on fire at the end of that game. Do you pull Temple for Buddy because he had a good quarter? Buddy for the most part has been pretty bad this season.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Winning shouldn't be the goal, but looking like azz is only going to cause him to lose his team and the players to lose value. Focusing on team is great but rebuilding really requires more focus on the individual, both in terms of development and value. I was nervous when I heard his little 28/20 spiel. It's still going to prove to be too close to 24/24 to build any real value.
Vladizzle
Bench
Memphis fans hated him for his rotations too. I used to follow them when I lived in Tennessee for 2 years..from the over the top Zbo love to the slow melancholic starting lineups, to the 2-4 minute marker first sub no matter what (my biggest annoyance), his rotations are unbearable.
I think the less talked about aspect of it, is that it ices out the bench...as soon as they get in LATE second half they a step out of it and lucky to return to a good production.
I think the less talked about aspect of it, is that it ices out the bench...as soon as they get in LATE second half they a step out of it and lucky to return to a good production.
Vladizzle
Bench
And I don't think he's incompetent, I think the game is just a bit too fast for him, hence his comfort with dumping it inside always and slow starting lineups, I just think he's stubborn. He writes down his idea for the team, lineup etc, and never changes it until the team is literally drowning.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Young players and young teams lose games and it's not necessarily a bad thing. Right now they should be focused on individual player development and individual skill, that and winning don't always go hand in hand. History dictates if you're losing anyway the more time now, the more payoff later potentially. If and when that development happens winning will or won't follow. Too many factors that aren't even in the equation yet will determine that at some point.
Buddy, Willie, and Bogdan are all just a few years away from their prime. Skal is in his second year, and Fox is clearly one of those rare ready to go types. Everyone wants to have this easing process like their the freaking Spurs or something, well good luck Kings, because you aren't the Spurs or anything close to a contender on your best day. Easing in when you are already a winner with value veteran talent is one thing, easing in young talent who you desperately need to have show some level of value is entirely another. In trading that pick to Philly in 2019, then trading Cousins for what was conceivably a lesser than expect package of value already leaves Vlade behind the 8 ball in rebuilding this franchise. IMO the most potential this team has at the moment lies with Buddy, Fox, Skal, Bogdan, and Willie. They have what appears to be not only a collection of decent young talent but decent young talent that can possible play on the floor together at one time! Go with it! They need to know if it can work, because if it can't then steps must follow.
I can understand the mirage of "earning it" because I know that's the age old coaches line of BS, but lets get real here, these guys most likely have had every whim, wish, and desire fulfilled during most points in their lives due in part to their potential. If those lessons weren't learned at the college level or below, they aren't going to be learned now.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
The thing that boggles my mind, and I don't remember this happening last year much, is bringing guys back in with like 2-3 minutes left in the 2nd and 4th quarters. We can go down a long list of coaches of recent memory post Adelman and I don't remember Corbin, Smart, Musclehead, Theus, none of them even doing that. Maybe it will end up working at some point I guess because if the players can overcome that, then they can overcome anything. It's hard to sit in real time for like 30-40 minutes and jump in right at the most heated moment of the game. Heck, maybe that's the idea, I don't know. What I do know is that some of these players will eventually check out if it continues.
I don't know where we will be either but I've seen enough in Fox right now that leads me to believe we nailed that pick this year and softens the blow from Cousins - even after his homecoming big night against us, I will always love that guy - but Fox is going to be special. And internally, word is Giles is going to be equally special. Now we've all been victims of overhyping our guys before so I don't want to count chickens... But Giles was a special case of a once-possible #1 overall guy who fell due to injury. That's two potential all stars we'll have for 7 years if everything works out and we want them. Bogdan looked good last night. Hield had flashes. I suspect they're going to push each other all season and one will wind up a long term starter with this organization. Justin Jackson is probably slotted as a bench guy, especially if we get any of the top 3 SFs in the upcoming draft. That alone to me is enough to maintain my interest in the season and have bright hopes for our future. I just hope we nurture it and allow it to grow.
Between Skal, Papa and WCS are three guys with a world of potential but I suspect there's a fair chance at least two of them won't get second contracts with this team and we'll have a hole in their spots that will be tougher to fill if that's the case.
Mason is a guy who can either be Fox's back up or a future trade asset.
My problem isn’t guys starting it’s our young core playing good but not rewarded with minuets. Skal is having a good game only plays 15 ZBo gets 29, Hill should scale back to 25mpg and minuests go to Hield and Fox. Hield started to come alive and just like the Phoenix game didn’t see the court again.
gunks
Hall of Famer
I think the FO did the correct thing in signing vets this offseason.
It wouldn't have been wise to assume Fox, a 19 year old rookie, was ready for full time starter minutes, playing the toughest position to learn in the NBA.
Nor would it have been wise to move forward with a very raw WCS/Skal/Papa front court rotation.
In theory, having vets sprinkled in with the youth would help steady both the offense and defense, and provide a more stable learning environment on the court (as opposed to a summer league-esque free for all of kids).
Hill, VC, and Z-bo all looked good last season, so I can't fault the FO for thinking they'd be anything but solid in limited minutes.
Nobody expected the youth to outplay the vets like they're doing right now. It's a good problem to have, and bodes well for the future. But in the meantime, Joerger can't tank their trade value.
I'm sure the kids will be getting more minutes by the all-star break at the latest. Patience people, it's a rebuild.
It wouldn't have been wise to assume Fox, a 19 year old rookie, was ready for full time starter minutes, playing the toughest position to learn in the NBA.
Nor would it have been wise to move forward with a very raw WCS/Skal/Papa front court rotation.
In theory, having vets sprinkled in with the youth would help steady both the offense and defense, and provide a more stable learning environment on the court (as opposed to a summer league-esque free for all of kids).
Hill, VC, and Z-bo all looked good last season, so I can't fault the FO for thinking they'd be anything but solid in limited minutes.
Nobody expected the youth to outplay the vets like they're doing right now. It's a good problem to have, and bodes well for the future. But in the meantime, Joerger can't tank their trade value.
I'm sure the kids will be getting more minutes by the all-star break at the latest. Patience people, it's a rebuild.
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
With so much youth, there won't be optimal rotation right now as much as we all want it. Youth is inconsistent, frustrating and exciting all at the same time so Joerger is playing around with his line ups because he has to. Shortened preseason & training camp has something to do with that as well I take.
The game is to fast for him? That would make him incompetent which you said he wasn't.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Well since you've stated that you won't allow for any explanation, and your question appears to be rhetorical, I guess I have nothing to say to you.
The Hammer
All-Star
We are not changing coaches. Joerger is here for at least 2 seasons after this. We are going to go through rough patches. He's already proved he's not incompetent in Memphis. That was the whole point of getting him. We'll have to solve our problems eslewhere, other than "blaming the coach".
In order to play correct defense, they need to learn correct defense...and i believe Joerger will teach them. I totally agree - Joerger is FAR from incompetent.
Highlighted for those of you (including myself) who were wondering about Hield.
Some of the posts on here are just....I don't know.....I'm trying to be polite but some of these posts are almost unbelievable. We are fortunate to have Joerger here. The lack of patience is damn maddening. I didnt want to see Boogie traded, vehemently against it, but this is the direction that many wanted, including the organization. I've accepted the deal and the path of rebuilding and the same people who wanted Boogie dealt are now questioning the process and the ability of Joerger. This coach will get them there in the appropriate timeline. People already asking about replacement, giving him til all-star break, questioning his competence, games to fast for him, etc. SMH.
It's a 2-3 year process. Not a 5-10 game process. He's going to do it right. He's going to be here for a long, long time.
It's a 2-3 year process. Not a 5-10 game process. He's going to do it right. He's going to be here for a long, long time.
Sac.1989
Starter
No issue with Joerger. We have to think long term here, we are not about to turn this over completely to the kids. We risk completely ruining someone's confidence like that and at the end of the day coach is a vet coach. He's going to play the vets to espouse a system and to further teach our youngsters through demonstration.
Loses are Lin's we played well yesterday. Great potential, closing and consistency is the last thing that will come and when it does you just better watch out.
Trust what we are building. This is what we signed up to by shipping off boogie and we are going about it very well if you ask me.
Loses are Lin's we played well yesterday. Great potential, closing and consistency is the last thing that will come and when it does you just better watch out.
Trust what we are building. This is what we signed up to by shipping off boogie and we are going about it very well if you ask me.
kingsfan1984
Starter
Something being missed here is that just because the coach plus management is following sime developmental plan that may lead to more losses now, this doeant mean they are not working toward winning more in the future. This is all about long term. Take time at the cost of winnig to develope the yoing guys best they can regardless of it costs in wins this year. Tbis is about the future.
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NewArena
All-Star
what mistakes? he's been pulling guys out never to be seen until late in the game even when they play WELL
there is no excuse for this mess. Coach needs to improve in this area and with his sub patterns, period.
NewArena
All-Star
what does it do to a kids confidence when they're yanked after giving you great minutes? it makes no sense. He can be heavily critiqued like everyone else, it doesn't mean we're all done with this team or jumping off the bandwagon.
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