Joerger Status. (He’s Fired)

Yes it did. It happened, there is no debate about it. While seemingly subtle there is a huge difference in spacing and in timing between a guard with a live dribble versus a dribble hand off.
No one is debating it didn’t happen. My point was/is Who cares if it happened before when he was a 19 year old rookie or once in preseason? You seriously want to try and compare a year 1 Fox to a year 2/3 Fox running a certain offense? The horns set you keep referencing does not prevent him from having driving lanes nor is it absolutely contingent on a dribble hand off. There are variations within the horns set. But in any jd the variations the driving lanes are there
 
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Anyone Care to give us highlights of his interview?
Outstanding interview and he was a class act. He was incredibly humble, thankful, and positive. Had nothing but good things to say about the fans, the city, Vlade, the team itself, etc. He specifically praised Fox, Buddy, Bagley, and WCS. He was glowing over the progress of Fox and his intelligence as a player, his toughness, his defensive ability, etc. He also said Bagley will be an all-star in the near future and that he started Bjelica because of his floor spacing and his +/-. The early season numbers show the team was better with Bjelica on the court.

Honestly if he came across like this all the time I don't think he gets fired. None of his typical snippy attitude or passive aggressive comments were in this interview. Dave handled this firing so well now I do start to wonder if he shouldn't have been fired to begin with......maybe he was the right guy.....damn.

He did mention that he wants to coach again and inferred that if a good job comes up this summer he'd take it. Doesn't sound like he wants to take a year off. Him and Grant seen to actually be friends and get along really well. This probably explains why Grant didn't run the bus over him like he usually does when someone gets fired. Grant really seems to like Dave.
 
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SLAB

Hall of Famer
Anyone Care to give us highlights of his interview?
Very grateful. Mentioned his love for Fox, Buddy, and Bags. Will always bleed purple. Justified Bags on the bench with Bjeli’s early +/- and ability to stretch the floor, his peers would respect and know he earned his spot. Doesn’t read too much on the criticisms. He’s a basketball coach and will always be, so if an opportunity comes he’d check it out.
 
No one is debating it didn’t happen. My point was/is Who cares if it happened before when he was a 19 year old rookie or once in preseason? You seriously want to try and compare a year 1 Fox to a year 2/3 Fox running a certain offense? The horns set you keep referencing does not prevent him from having driving lanes nor is it absolutely contingent on a dribble hand off. There are variations within the horns set. But in any jd the variations the driving lanes are there
He could and should be better in time, but we still saw it year 2 and it looked just as bad as year 1 and in terms of the type of elite skills he has it doesn't make the most of those skills regardless of how good he gets. And the point of the horn is that Fox isn't running the offense really. The big is. The variation they used clamped down the middle of the paint with bodies and middle pick and roll becomes increasingly difficult from there and that's a particular play slashing guards in the ilk of Fox should have major success in. It all depends on how dependent they would be on it, Dave Joerger way overused it last year. It was predictable. It's kind of like drinking, in moderation? Eh. In excess? Problems.
 
Very grateful. Mentioned his love for Fox, Buddy, and Bags. Will always bleed purple. Justified Bags on the bench with Bjeli’s early +/- and ability to stretch the floor, his peers would respect and know he earned his spot. Doesn’t read too much on the criticisms. He’s a basketball coach and will always be, so if an opportunity comes he’d check it out.
said WCS had a good season, maybe not as good a finish but a good season.
 
He could and should be better in time, but we still saw it year 2 and it looked just as bad as year 1 and in terms of the type of elite skills he has it doesn't make the most of those skills regardless of how good he gets. And the point of the horn is that Fox isn't running the offense really. The big is. The variation they used clamped down the middle of the paint with bodies and middle pick and roll becomes increasingly difficult from there and that's a particular play slashing guards in the ilk of Fox should have major success in. It all depends on how dependent they would be on it, Dave Joerger way overused it last year. It was predictable. It's kind of like drinking, in moderation? Eh. In excess? Problems.
The big(s) is not running the offense in the horn set(s) (well I shouldn’t say never, because that would not be always true). The bigs are there to act as screeners on each side and to screen and roll or screen and pop for the ball handler. Now with Joergers version, I need to watch more because my memory is failing me lol. But I am speaking to the overall horn set which is the ball handler as the primary facilitator
 
Outstanding interview and he was a class act. He was incredibly humble, thankful, and positive. Had nothing but good things to say about the fans, the city, Vlade, the team itself, etc. He specifically praised Fox, Buddy, Bagley, and WCS. He was glowing over the progress of Fox and his intelligence as a player, his toughness, his defensive ability, etc. He also said Bagley will be an all-star in the near future and that he started Bjelica because of his floor spacing and his +/-. The early season numbers show the team was better with Bjelica on the court.

Honestly if he came across like this all the time I don't think he gets fired. None of his typical snippy attitude or passive aggressive comments were in this interview. Dave handled this firing so well now I do start to wonder if he shouldn't have been fired to begin with......maybe he was the right guy.....damn.

He did mention that he wants to coach again and inferred that if a good job comes up this summer he'd take it. Doesn't sound like he wants to take a year off. Him and Grant seen to actually be friends and get along really well. This probably explains why Grant didn't run the bus over him like he usually does when someone gets fired. Grant really seems to like Dave.
Interesting he didn’t mention Giles. It often seemed Dave and Harry didn’t always mesh. I think if Vlade was thinking of any player when he commented about believing in the players, he was referring to Giles.
 
The big(s) is not running the offense in the horn set(s) (well I shouldn’t say never, because that would not be always true). The bigs are there to act as screeners on each side and to screen and roll or screen and pop for the ball handler. Now with Joergers version, I need to watch more because my memory is failing me lol. But I am speaking to the overall horn set which is the ball handler as the primary facilitator
The horn is the basic formation. Joerger had the ball dumped into the high post often and the screen play was made from the horns but this wasn't about him, it was about Waltons usage of it. Sometimes they would dish it back out but plenty of times the play would be initiated by one of the bigs. This year they helped a bit by mostly playing one big in the high post leaving the other post clear.

I posted this video in another post. Watch the first set here. This is the same basic action Joeger used and is the basic play set that started this conversation. Luke Walton actually uses it more effectively though and the spacing is better than much of what we saw last year.

 
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Haven't read all the posts, so apologies if I am repeating thoughts already expressed, but here is my $0.02. I think we will regret this move for a long time. The worst move we have made since the Malone firing. I really wish I'm proven wrong.

With the issues we have faced with revolving door for coaches, lack of leadership on the sidelines, a consistent culture, etc., one would have thought that the coaching staff that oversaw the development of kids and had them play hard most of the times, even when they were losing lot more games, and led the team to first reasonably good season in forever, would deserve an extension. Moreover, unless we are not privy to some information (or I have missed the news), there was no rebellion against the staff. Except from some noise from the Bagley camp (justified to some extent, but he was getting consistent minutes anyway), I didn't hear of any gripe from the team.

I can understand some of the reasons for the action
1. Vlade/Vivek blamed both Brandon and Dave for escalating the feud and fired both as a message to the team/other potential candidates that certain level of discipline will be expected. If so, probably a little extreme, but still understandable.
2. With Dave entering the final year of his contract, the choice was either to extend him, or to fire him. If they were not comfortable with the former, the latter option should have been exercised as early as possible to reach out to other potential candidates.

Despite this, firing the only coach who had some success with the team other than Malone since the RA era, was a BAD move in my opinion, particularly if the plan is to search for a replacement. I can live with it, if they have someone in the crosshair.

Our situation is a lot better than last year, and lot more established coaches looking for a job will give us a serious look this year than years past. That said, the available pool might change as the post season progresses, and established names will wait till the rosters firm up after the draft and FA periods. So unless we already have some tentative candidate in mind, the position will not be filled soon.

Moreover, we will be looking to hire not just a new coaching staff, but also assistant GM. I would hope that we can hire a good, respected, analytical mind to fill that position soon. Vlade has certainly shown himself to be capable, but we don't know how much Brandon was helping him behind the scenes. I hope
I think the list of reasons why he was fired is a little longer
 
The horn is the basic formation. Joerger had the ball dumped into the high post often and the screen play was made from the horns. Sometimes they would dish it back out but plenty of times the play would be initiated by one of the bigs.

I posted this video in another post. Watch the first set here. This is the same basic action Joeger used and is the basic play set that started this conversation. Luke Walton actually uses it more effectively though and the spacing is better than much of what we saw last year.

Thanks for the refresher. Yes that’s DJs version of it and I wasn’t a fan of it when they got Fox because it was not necessarily PG friendly. However DJs is not the norm though. It’s predicated around 2 bigs as screeners for the PG not the bigs essentially facilitating the offense: that was my point. I think with the mix of guys they have though there is room run many variations of this.
 
I listened to James Ham on the afternoon show. He was asked point blank why did Ham think he got fired and the first thing he said was that the rift between Joerger and Williams was a big, big thing. Ham also discounted the alleged reports now saying that his relationships with the players had something to do with the firing. Ham didn’t think that was the case. Said he was around the team quite a bit and just didn’t see those problems. Said the environment was strong and not a negative environment. Said that after the fact people are just really speculating on things.
 
Thanks for the refresher. Yes that’s DJs version of it and I wasn’t a fan of it when they got Fox because it was not necessarily PG friendly. However DJs is not the norm though. It’s predicated around 2 bigs as screeners for the PG not the bigs essentially facilitating the offense: that was my point. I think with the mix of guys they have though there is room run many variations of this.
Yeah, his wasn't nearly as spacing friendly as Waltons from the looks of it. Depending on if the Kings were able to land someone like Vucevic would matter as to how effective that play would be moving forward. Running that play through Willie Cauley-Stein is totally different than someone like him.
 
Yeah, his wasn't nearly as spacing friendly as Waltons from the looks of it. Depending on if the Kings were able to land someone like Vucevic would matter as to how effective that play would be moving forward. Running that play through Willie Cauley-Stein is totally different than someone like him.
Agreed. Have a good night my friend. Enjoyed the discussion
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
Very grateful. Mentioned his love for Fox, Buddy, and Bags. Will always bleed purple. Justified Bags on the bench with Bjeli’s early +/- and ability to stretch the floor, his peers would respect and know he earned his spot. Doesn’t read too much on the criticisms. He’s a basketball coach and will always be, so if an opportunity comes he’d check it out.
I thought he really dodged Grant's question: When did you first have indications you might be let go as the Kings' coach? I highly doubt that Joerger was shocked at the outcome. In his interview he sure didn't sound like a guy who didn't see it coming from a long ways off.
 
I listened to James Ham on the afternoon show. He was asked point blank why did Ham think he got fired and the first thing he said was that the rift between Joerger and Williams was a big, big thing. Ham also discounted the alleged reports now saying that his relationships with the players had something to do with the firing. Ham didn’t think that was the case. Said he was around the team quite a bit and just didn’t see those problems. Said the environment was strong and not a negative environment. Said that after the fact people are just really speculating on things.
I know he’s around the team quite a bit, but I really don’t put much stock in anything Ham says.
 
I listened to James Ham on the afternoon show. He was asked point blank why did Ham think he got fired and the first thing he said was that the rift between Joerger and Williams was a big, big thing. Ham also discounted the alleged reports now saying that his relationships with the players had something to do with the firing. Ham didn’t think that was the case. Said he was around the team quite a bit and just didn’t see those problems. Said the environment was strong and not a negative environment. Said that after the fact people are just really speculating on things.
The rift between him and Bagley/Buddy was real, maybe not the rest of the team

When Joerger mentioned it was “unfortunate for us” about Doncic not being on the Kings it was betrayal to Marvin and Vlade

Regardless of its merit (Vlade should’ve been the one in question)

If at the end of this we get a worse coach because of those disagreements I will be pissed

Ask around the league and Joerger is more respected than Luke. Go to a Laker forum and hear “let’s swap coaches” comments

I liked Joerger, and will be the first holding Vlade to the fire line, as if I wasn’t already, if the team regresses
 
The rift between him and Bagley/Buddy was real, maybe not the rest of the team
Bag's dad posted an hallelujah type post immediately once the news dropped so we know that's real. And Vlade said if the players had spoken up Joerger may have stayed. So I think there is a lot of it right there.

Ask around the league and Joerger is more respected than Luke. Go to a Laker forum and hear “let’s swap coaches” comments
Do you mean in fan circles? Joerger burned his bridges in two front offices despite success. I think the only reason for this would be that Joerger did better than expected with small market historically awful teams and Luke gets zero credit for his success with the Dubs but all the blame in the world for not winning in LA despite 9 win improvements in each of his first two seasons and some early success this year before Le Bron's injury blew up the team. So basically two no win scenarios.

He was not my number one pick but I think Walton has the potential to be amazing given the people he has been around his entire life.
 
The rift between him and Bagley/Buddy was real, maybe not the rest of the team

When Joerger mentioned it was “unfortunate for us” about Doncic not being on the Kings it was betrayal to Marvin and Vlade

Regardless of its merit (Vlade should’ve been the one in question)

If at the end of this we get a worse coach because of those disagreements I will be pissed

Ask around the league and Joerger is more respected than Luke. Go to a Laker forum and hear “let’s swap coaches” comments

I liked Joerger, and will be the first holding Vlade to the fire line, as if I wasn’t already, if the team regresses
Fans are hardly overly qualified to comment on coaches from their team, let alone the coach from another team. Go to any teams forum and you will hear the same things getting regurgitated. Substitution patterns are bad, player x should be starting instead of player y, player a should be getting more minutes than player b, no in game adjustments etc.

The grass is not always greener on the other side. I don’t know what Walton will be like for the Kings but I am going to go into it with an open mind. On paper he fits what Vlade was looking for. A young coach who will coach up tempo and is known as a players coach that young players especially love playing for.

If you were to come from the outside and read this board you would think that Joerger was a terrible coach. That is so far removed from reality it’s not funny
 
Fans are hardly overly qualified to comment on coaches from their team, let alone the coach from another team. Go to any teams forum and you will hear the same things getting regurgitated. Substitution patterns are bad, player x should be starting instead of player y, player a should be getting more minutes than player b, no in game adjustments etc.

The grass is not always greener on the other side. I don’t know what Walton will be like for the Kings but I am going to go into it with an open mind. On paper he fits what Vlade was looking for. A young coach who will coach up tempo and is known as a players coach that young players especially love playing for.

If you were to come from the outside and read this board you would think that Joerger was a terrible coach. That is so far removed from reality it’s not funny
Depends what posts you were reading. Second half of the season? Perhaps... And that would be somewhat justified if you looked at team record and performance.

First half? We had many posts saying he should be in the running for CotY.

Joerger's a good coach, but he also has clear flaws, flaws that if corrected perhaps would have seen us in the playoffs right now.
 
Depends what posts you were reading. Second half of the season? Perhaps... And that would be somewhat justified if you looked at team record and performance.

First half? We had many posts saying he should be in the running for CotY.

Joerger's a good coach, but he also has clear flaws, flaws that if corrected perhaps would have seen us in the playoffs right now.
Pretty sure there have been plenty of posts even in the first half of the season questioning his substitutions, minute distributions and rotations.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
...

Ask around the league and Joerger is more respected than Luke. Go to a Laker forum and hear “let’s swap coaches” comments

I liked Joerger, and will be the first holding Vlade to the fire line, as if I wasn’t already, if the team regresses
I usually ignore your vague "one comment fits all" posts but I'm calling this out. The biggest Lakers forum on the Internet has a thread dedicated to Luke Walton. The majority of posters LIKED him and are not real happy with current Lakers decisions.

But I know - you're gonna quote realGM.