Joe Alexander

J

joemama

Starter
http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=419812

Joe Alexander worked out for the Knicks (that will probably trade the #6 or take Westbrooke), and will come work out for the kings.

I like Alexander but as a SF, if we move Artest to the PF likely, and Theus can turn around his rebounding as he did Miller's (unlikely), then I would be okay with it.

This still doesn't (truly) fill one of our needs PF/ PG.
 
joemama said:
http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=419812

Joe Alexander worked out for the Knicks (that will probably trade the #6 or take Westbrooke), and will come work out for the kings.

I like Alexander but as a SF, if we move Artest to the PF likely, and Theus can turn around his rebounding as he did Miller's (unlikely), then I would be okay with it.

This still doesn't (truly) fill one of our needs PF/ PG.
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Funny, I just posted on another thread, the stats from the pre-draft camp of Alexander. In truth, he's just as tall as Love and Arthur. He's stronger than both of them. He benched 185 pounds 26 times. He can jump higher than both, 38 inch vertical leap, and he had a faster 3/4 court speed than either of them, 2.99. He also out weighs Arthur. And yet, we don't think he can play PF and they can. What am I missing here.
 
Even in the article he considers himself "a guard player" that is why I'm having a hard time seeing him as a PF. Videos of him just show penetration, dunk, penetration, dunk. I don't see any post moves, rebounding, etc, (you know) what PF's (other than ours) are supposed to do!
 
joemama said:
Even in the article he considers himself "a guard player" that is why I'm having a hard time seeing him as a PF. Videos of him just show penetration, dunk, penetration, dunk. I don't see any post moves, rebounding, etc, (you know) what PF's (other than ours) are supposed to do!
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As I stated, he didn't start playing organized basketball until his senior year in highschool, so he's still very raw. He almost singlehandedly got his school into the NCAA's and played very well in the tournament. I beleive he scored 30 pt's in one of the games. Unfortunally for him, he was one of the quickest players on his team and sometimes got the assignment of guarding the wing players on the other team. Thats probably how he got labeled as a wing player. I think it probably hurt his development at the SF/PF position, and helped to make him look bad defensively, because he was trying to guard smaller and quicker players.

None of those things preclude him from playing the SF/PF position in the future. He's a very good athlete and has very serious hops around the basket. Is he a project? Yes. But because of his intense commitment to the game, he could progress very quickly. He's also very smart, and his coach said that he has instincts for the game that can't be taught.
 
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Alexander's game reminds me of Tom Gugliotta a little bit -- athletic and plays bigger than his size, but really a perimeter guy.

I don't think he has a whole lot of game though. He jumps way higher than he has to on his jump shot which throws off his release, and his quickness doesn't really translate to very good production on offense because he has a poor handle, not very many moves, and he's pretty clueless on defense.

I really can't believe that he's projected this high in the draft. It's one thing to take an athletic power forward or center this high in the draft because they're rare and useful, but athletic 6'8" guys with shaky skills are a dime a dozen in the NBA and NBDL -- Jamario Moon, Ime Udoka, Travis Outlaw, Rodney White... there are tons of guys like that bouncing around the NBA. Just sign one of those guys if you need one. No need to waste a pick.
 
nbrans said:
Alexander's game reminds me of Tom Gugliotta a little bit -- athletic and plays bigger than his size, but really a perimeter guy.

I don't think he has a whole lot of game though. He jumps way higher than he has to on his jump shot which throws off his release, and his quickness doesn't really translate to very good production on offense because he has a poor handle, not very many moves, and he's pretty clueless on defense.

I really can't believe that he's projected this high in the draft. It's one thing to take an athletic power forward or center this high in the draft because they're rare and useful, but athletic 6'8" guys with shaky skills are a dime a dozen in the NBA and NBDL -- Jamario Moon, Ime Udoka, Travis Outlaw, Rodney White... there are tons of guys like that bouncing around the NBA. Just sign one of those guys if you need one. No need to waste a pick.
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I'm not going to spend all day trying to defend this guy, but I think your being a bit harsh on him. I think the reason he's rated so high, is because of his lack of playing time in organized basketball, as opposed to some other guys that have been playing for quite a while and aren't even better than him. He's basicly played just 4 years of organized basketball, due to spending a large part of his youth growing up in china. This is a kid so dedicated that he slept in the locker room three nights a week so he could get up in the middle of the night and practice. I think its a little early to pass judgement on him just yet.
 
I love Joe Alexander's game; there's something about it that just seems so unique for the NBA, although most of his intrigue stems off his amazing freakish athleticism. But perhaps what separates him from all the other athletes the NBA boasts is that he's a "controlled" athlete; he's a definite high flyer, but unlike the Josh Smiths or JR Smiths of the world he definitely seems to understand his limitations, has a high basketball IQ and plays for the sake of the team. His athleticism and intellect alone would probably have made him a 1st round lock, and even though he's raw and unpolished around the edges in terms of his offensive and defensive game, he's had a breakout season this year in college production and the tourney and that has cemented himself as a mid-1st rounder, most likely. What a huge turnaround of events considering his Chinese upbringing, the fact that he was unheralded coming into college and the fact that he was considered to be a 2nd rounder of NEXT year's draft even before this year of college--what a feel-good story.

We clearly don't need him, obviously, with Kevin Martin and Garcia and Salmons and Artest manning the position, and for now he probably won't fit anyway; I see him as a glue-guy in the league, and he has a specific set of skills that needs to be harnessed properly in order for him to reach his full potential in the league. He's a guy who probably deserves some minutes here and there to showcase his skills, and shouldn't sit in the bench to watch them erode away, nor should he be placed in the fire right away and asked to produce at an extreme amount. Portland really looks like a good fit for him, if they don't trade away their draft pick, because he can mold with all their young guys and get some minutes there behind Travis Outlaw.
 
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bajaden said:
I'm not going to spend all day trying to defend this guy, but I think your being a bit harsh on him. I think the reason he's rated so high, is because of his lack of playing time in organized basketball, as opposed to some other guys that have been playing for quite a while and aren't even better than him. He's basicly played just 4 years of organized basketball, due to spending a large part of his youth growing up in china. This is a kid so dedicated that he slept in the locker room three nights a week so he could get up in the middle of the night and practice. I think its a little early to pass judgement on him just yet.
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The same thing was said about Quincy Douby, and yet when Douby came into the NBA he already possessed an incredible jump shot and some advanced moves even though he was just learning the game -- he was awesome at Rutgers, and look how much Douby has struggled to adjust to the NBA.

I'm not ruling out that Alexander could be something like Gerald Wallace or Shawn Marion, but both of those guys came into the league as raw 18-19 year olds. Alexander is already 21. He doesn't have a whole lot of learning time left.
 
I live in Morgantown and have had the chance to see many of the Mountaineer games and have seen Alexander play quite a bit. Most people around here were surprised when he declared for the draft because he really wasn't being talked about as an NBA prospect until the tourney. (Although, he has not signed with an agent so he still can return) Yes he is talented but I just don't think the guy is lottery material. maybe a late 1st. He really should come back and play another year under Huggins. If you think he can be a PF, you are kidding yourself. PF he is not. He will most likely end up in the SF and SG range when he does go NBA. I have a feeling if he isn't guaranteed by some team to be a lottery pick he will return for his senior year.

I don't think Alexander is the guy to take with #12, we have so many other glaring needs.

As an aside, I feel like too much stock are put into these combine numbers. Can you imagine Larry Bird coming out of Indiana St. at the combine? You guys would be crucifiying his speed and vert. While useful, the numbers and measurables in the NBA are not nearly as telling as the NFL combine.
 
LoungeLizard said:
I live in Morgantown and have had the chance to see many of the Mountaineer games and have seen Alexander play quite a bit. Most people around here were surprised when he declared for the draft because he really wasn't being talked about as an NBA prospect until the tourney. (Although, he has not signed with an agent so he still can return) Yes he is talented but I just don't think the guy is lottery material. maybe a late 1st. He really should come back and play another year under Huggins. If you think he can be a PF, you are kidding yourself. PF he is not. He will most likely end up in the SF and SG range when he does go NBA. I have a feeling if he isn't guaranteed by some team to be a lottery pick he will return for his senior year.

I don't think Alexander is the guy to take with #12, we have so many other glaring needs.

As an aside, I feel like too much stock are put into these combine numbers. Can you imagine Larry Bird coming out of Indiana St. at the combine? You guys would be crucifiying his speed and vert. While useful, the numbers and measurables in the NBA are not nearly as telling as the NFL combine.
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Your absolutely right about putting too much emphasis on the numbers alone. However those numbers when added to having watched a player play can help you come to a decision on a player. I agree that the best thing Alexander can do is go back to school for another year. At some pt in his career I beleive he'll turn into a pretty good NBA player.

As for Larry Bird. He's one of my main examples. I remember one scout on the radio before the draft saying that he was too slow and couldn't jump, and that he doubted he would ever make it in the NBA.
 
LoungeLizard said:
I live in Morgantown and have had the chance to see many of the Mountaineer games and have seen Alexander play quite a bit. Most people around here were surprised when he declared for the draft because he really wasn't being talked about as an NBA prospect until the tourney. (Although, he has not signed with an agent so he still can return) Yes he is talented but I just don't think the guy is lottery material. maybe a late 1st. He really should come back and play another year under Huggins. If you think he can be a PF, you are kidding yourself. PF he is not. He will most likely end up in the SF and SG range when he does go NBA. I have a feeling if he isn't guaranteed by some team to be a lottery pick he will return for his senior year.

I don't think Alexander is the guy to take with #12, we have so many other glaring needs.

As an aside, I feel like too much stock are put into these combine numbers. Can you imagine Larry Bird coming out of Indiana St. at the combine? You guys would be crucifiying his speed and vert. While useful, the numbers and measurables in the NBA are not nearly as telling as the NFL combine.
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Excellent input! and the introspection of Joe and WVA is great. He stays out a year and he could be top 5 next year. But if stayed in and was there at 12, would you want the Kings to take him?

I like joemama's comment that if RonRon got moved to PF then the SF opens a spot. But RonRon loves Mikki's game so not likely for that to happen, said the armchair coach on the beach!!! I kinda like Mikki's game as well but can only imagine that if he got outplayed and came off the bench with Cisco, THAT would be impressive. Their energy is a good day at Maverick's.
 
i dunno why but after seeing some videos of this kid, i wouldnt mind him as a king (if we needed another sf, which we dont). maybe its the frustration of seeing our big men go to the basket, then missing a layup, either by getting fouled or just plain sucking (KT). seeing all these freakishly athletic players on other teams, getting "and 1's" dunking it while getting fouled just seems to get the team and fans excited.

and even in the interview at the workouts, he actually said he would really want to be a king which i think is a plus. so...very athletic, finishes strong, and can get his fair share of blocks due to his speed and length. i think theres a lot of potential. but alas, we already have a log jam at the sf position. so we're probably gonna choose based on need.

so either an undersized pg, a combo guard thats too small for sg but doesnt have the ball handling of a true pg. or probably one of the big men that are athletic and have potential, but shoot like 50% from the ft and are still extremely raw. haha i really dont know why i just bad mouthed the other picks. i wouldnt mind getting augustin, westbrook or jordan. maybe its just reading all the other posters listing their cons that have me second guessing. :(
 
RonRon is our 3 right now and Mikki the 4. However, Hawes needs to get more time at both the 4 and 5 depending on opponents. Alexander can play some 4 in the NBA at 6-8 and 230 with his vertical and quickness and toughness.

So Hawes gets more of Brads time at the 5, an Alexander gets some of Mikki's time at the 4 (as could Hawes), Salmons and Cisco rotate with RonRon and Kevin at the 2-3. We need a monster type rebounder at the 4 who is a team player. Could work.

Then the biggie is back up for Beno. I see him having to get resigned as he will be the best option a PG for at least the next 2 years.
 
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CruzDude said:
RonRon is our 3 right now and Mikki the 4. However, Hawes needs to get more time at both the 4 and 5 depending on opponents. Alexander can play some 4 in the NBA at 6-8 with his vertical and quickness and toughness.

So Hawes gets more of Brads time at the 5, an Alexander gets some of Mikki's time at the 4 (as could Hawes), Salmons and Cisco rotate with RonRon and Kevin at the 2-3. We need a monster type rebounder at the 4 who is a team player. Could work.

Then the biggie is back up for Beno. I see him having to get resigned as he will be the best option a PG for at least the next 2 years.
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I agree. Were not going to rewrite basketball history next year anyway. Alexander is as good a gamble as anyone else, and at least he has the right attitude. I'm not opposed to taking a shot on potential as long as I have an idea whats between a players ears. The desire to achieve and improve seems to be there with Alexander. I'm not so sure with some of the others, Jordan being an example. To be fair to him, it could just be a bad match, or a system he doesn't fit into well. But you can only go on what you see, and he didn't impress me.
 
Alexander, Augustin, and Westbrook are the three I would focus on. If Alexander, I would look to move John with KT and (maybe) Cisco with picks for perhaps a bigger, more established PG piece. Perhaps via a sign and trade. Perhaps involving a guy from CA seeking a payday and the chance to prove himself.

Just a thought.

Otherwise, I think Augustin would instantly be the most polished of all of them, and provide a nice developmental PG. In the meantime, I'd resign Johnson to a basement deal and transition them in a 3-man platoon (Quincy, AJ, and DJ) based on mismatches throughout the season to get them both seasoning.

The other PG I've always loved and thought would be a great fit for our team and fans (and he lives in the area already) is Andre Miller, but PHI needs him based on depth, and he's already 32 years old. Still, a solid PG.
 
KevinSalvadori said:
Alexander, Augustin, and Westbrook are the three I would focus on. If Alexander, I would look to move John with KT and (maybe) Cisco with picks for perhaps a bigger, more established PG piece. Perhaps via a sign and trade. Perhaps involving a guy from CA seeking a payday and the chance to prove himself.

Just a thought.

Otherwise, I think Augustin would instantly be the most polished of all of them, and provide a nice developmental PG. In the meantime, I'd resign Johnson to a basement deal and transition them in a 3-man platoon (Quincy, AJ, and DJ) based on mismatches throughout the season to get them both seasoning.

The other PG I've always loved and thought would be a great fit for our team and fans (and he lives in the area already) is Andre Miller, but PHI needs him based on depth, and he's already 32 years old. Still, a solid PG.
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Yeah I like Andre Miller too. But I don't want him near our team anytime soon unless we rebuild overnight. He's just not what we need right now.
 
KevinSalvadori said:
Alexander, Augustin, and Westbrook are the three I would focus on. If Alexander, I would look to move John with KT and (maybe) Cisco with picks for perhaps a bigger, more established PG piece. Perhaps via a sign and trade. Perhaps involving a guy from CA seeking a payday and the chance to prove himself.

Just a thought.

Otherwise, I think Augustin would instantly be the most polished of all of them, and provide a nice developmental PG. In the meantime, I'd resign Johnson to a basement deal and transition them in a 3-man platoon (Quincy, AJ, and DJ) based on mismatches throughout the season to get them both seasoning.

The other PG I've always loved and thought would be a great fit for our team and fans (and he lives in the area already) is Andre Miller, but PHI needs him based on depth, and he's already 32 years old. Still, a solid PG.
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Boy, I have always liked Miller's game. I've always felt that he was one of the most underrated pt's in the game. Not by the NBA establishment but by the media. If he were only 5 or 6 yr's younger. Oh well, I wanted a root beer float last night too..
 
I think we need to stop kidding ourselves that Westbrook AND Augustin will be available at #12. And if Gallinari doesn't go to the Nets and takes off for Milan then all the picks above 12 move up a slot and the top 5 PGs most assuredly move up a notch as well. That make its more likely Alexander could be there at 12. And he carries 230 lb with his awesome vertical and quick feet and hands. Is he enough to pass up one of the 7 footers who need 2-3 years to be NBA ready? I... don't .......think.......so.
 
Yesterday in the Portland Tribune, Coach Nate McMillan of the Blazers said of Joe Alexander after their workout with him, "He's a guy not afraid of working.... reminds me of Andres Nocioni...He is very physical, very athletic, can shoot he ball and he's a SF who can play the 4".

Alexander himself said he has the 3-ball down and can shoot from anywhere on the floor. Sounds like a guy I want on my team!
 
As much as I like Andres Nocioni, a tweener forward like that would change nothing for this team -- a team with neither a PG nor a legitimate big man -- and have no reasonable role whatsoever until/unless the Artest/Cisco/Salmons trio is broken up.
 
CruzDude said:
Yesterday in the Portland Tribune, Coach Nate McMillan of the Blazers said of Joe Alexander after their workout with him, "He's a guy not afraid of working.... reminds me of Andres Nocioni...He is very physical, very athletic, can shoot he ball and he's a SF who can play the 4".

Alexander himself said he has the 3-ball down and can shoot from anywhere on the floor. Sounds like a guy I want on my team!
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He has the 3 ball down to the tune of shooting 27% from the college three point line. But hey, to hear him talk, he's Reggie Miller.
 
nbrans said:
He has the 3 ball down to the tune of shooting 27% from the college three point line. But hey, to hear him talk, he's Reggie Miller.
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This is not an advocation of drafting Alexander, but shooting is the least of my worries. Jordan wasn't noted for his shooting coming out of college. Nor was Karl Malone or Magic etc. If a player has a great work ethic, all those things can be corrected. Chris Mullins would be the first to tell you that he became a great shooter from practicing 500 to 1000 shots a day.

Let me ask you this. Many of you bring up what we need, and therefore discard the possibility of drafting someone like Alexander etc. If Michael Jordan were available. A position we don't need filled. Would you draft him? Or would you instead, draft a D. Arthur or a J. McGee, simply because you have a need there.

I realize that there are no garrantee's in the draft. But to discard a player simply because he doesn't fit the image of what you want on a team is shortsighted. I would rather draft a SF with a great work ethic, and who busts his butt every night, than a lethargic big man, ( aka Jerome James etc ) who spends most of his energy trying to figure out how to use the home edition of Quickbooks to see how much money he has.
 
Westbrook will not be available and Augustin probably won't either so there are no PGs left that are worth the #12. I also doubt that Love or Jordan will be available either so there is no PFs left worth the #12 either. This being said I really am hoping that Petrie has some potential trades in place to move down...or maybe move up.

Regarding Alexander I am not a fan. I have watched some of his games, highlight videos, and been through stats and scouting reports and I really think he will have problems on the NBA level. Two years ago he really relied on his outside shot and the end results were 42% from the field and 30% from 3-point range.

Last year he relied on his athleticism and quickness to get to the basket. He shot less than a third of the 3-pointers than the year before, 131 to 41. His field percentage increased to 46% which is pretty good because of the dunks and layups. The problem is that he is a really poor shooter and if he can't keep defenders honest then he won't be able to penetrate either. He can't rely on just his athleticism in the NBA.
 
bajaden said:
This is not an advocation of drafting Alexander, but shooting is the least of my worries. Jordan wasn't noted for his shooting coming out of college. Nor was Karl Malone or Magic etc. If a player has a great work ethic, all those things can be corrected. Chris Mullins would be the first to tell you that he became a great shooter from practicing 500 to 1000 shots a day.

Let me ask you this. Many of you bring up what we need, and therefore discard the possibility of drafting someone like Alexander etc. If Michael Jordan were available. A position we don't need filled. Would you draft him? Or would you instead, draft a D. Arthur or a J. McGee, simply because you have a need there.

I realize that there are no garrantee's in the draft. But to discard a player simply because he doesn't fit the image of what you want on a team is shortsighted. I would rather draft a SF with a great work ethic, and who busts his butt every night, than a lethargic big man, ( aka Jerome James etc ) who spends most of his energy trying to figure out how to use the home edition of Quickbooks to see how much money he has.
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If you're a 3 like Alexander, you need to be able to shoot. If you can't shoot, you need to be able to dribble. If you're a 3 and you can't shoot and you can't dribble, then you're Darius Miles.

Maybe Alexander will learn to shoot and dribble, but I'm sorry, we already have too many 3s to take on a project.
 
I'm 80% sure that Petrie will pick Alexander. Petrie always likes to do basically the opposite of what the fans want, and has fun proving us all wrong. With Hawes, not a lot of people wanted a not so atheletic center with some problems on the rebounding and defense area and Petrie picks him and hey guess what Hawes is our center of the future. Same with Douby, except he hasn't produced, Martin, Peja..I think you the idea. I see Alexander as this. We don't need another wing and everyone wants us to grab a PG of PF so Petrie's of course do the opposite of what the fans are looking for...
 
ForlornKing said:
I'm 80% sure that Petrie will pick Alexander. Petrie always likes to do basically the opposite of what the fans want, and has fun proving us all wrong. With Hawes, not a lot of people wanted a not so atheletic center with some problems on the rebounding and defense area and Petrie picks him and hey guess what Hawes is our center of the future. Same with Douby, except he hasn't produced, Martin, Peja..I think you the idea. I see Alexander as this. We don't need another wing and everyone wants us to grab a PG of PF so Petrie's of course do the opposite of what the fans are looking for...
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Petrie took Hawes because he had no choice -- he would have taken any of the Top 10 bigs who slipped and was apaprently trying to move up to grab one of them (likely Noah). But it should be noted that the reason he had no choice was because we needed a big. And after the draft he even indicated as much, saying the reason he did not take Thornton was because you could only keep on taking players at the wing positions for so long, and we had a need. Well..we still do. Several of them in fact.
 
nbrans said:
If you're a 3 like Alexander, you need to be able to shoot. If you can't shoot, you need to be able to dribble. If you're a 3 and you can't shoot and you can't dribble, then you're Darius Miles.

Maybe Alexander will learn to shoot and dribble, but I'm sorry, we already have too many 3s to take on a project.
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I'm not sure why you think he can't dribble. Have you actually seen him play? He can dribble the ball just fine. As a matter of fact he has a pretty good crossover dribble. People look at his turnovers and think he can't handle the ball, but thats not the case. His problem is making bad decisions with the ball, aka John Barry, dribbling into traffic with no where to go. By the same token, he's a pretty good passer, but forces the ball sometimes when its not there. Thus another turnover. This is a guy that when he asked his coach for a key to the gym, his coach said he would if he would just stop dribbling the ball everywhere..

I will make no excuses for his shooting, except to say that he really didn't take that many outside shots, and probably didn't even average one 3pt shot a game. He's a work in progress to be sure. But hey, he has that so called potential. What more do you want?
 
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