Jimmers dribbling ????

[sactownfan]

ok... he's terrible... i can't be alone on this... he's always in a very protective stance... at all times, lacking the confidence to actually face up... so... he's always faced sideways... anyone else see a problem here?

people here believe he's gonna be a PG eventually but i don't see it... his dribbling skills are horridness. if you can't even for a second at this level face up theres a problem. at least as being a PG is concerned

 

[Padrino]

yeah, i posted about this in the trading tyreke thread:

http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/sho...g-Tyreke-trade&p=884238&viewfull=1#post884238

i don't know what to make of it. i hope its just rookie jitters. however, i think something more is going on. jimmer was used to running all over the court as a collegiate. he had the ball in his hands most of the time. hell, he took 21 shots/gm as a senior, meaning he took one shot every two minutes. you've gotta have the ball in your hands A LOT to pull that off, and most college defenses are just not stingy enough to stop a scorer like jimmer. the pace of the game is vastly different in the ncaa as a result of poor overall defensive play. that, coupled with an offensive system at BYU that was specifically catered to jimmer, and you have a recipe for success in college, but not necessarily a recipe for success in the nba. even a poor defensive team in the nba (like, say, the kings) competes more on that side of the ball than most college teams do. a poor defensive team like the kings still knows how to come up with big defensive plays, like they did tonight against the hornets in crunch time, twice in a row, by two guards ahead of jimmer in the pecking order...

truth is, jimmer's an unathletic combo guard who's going to have difficulty finding a position and a role in the nba. the athleticism and strength required to play good nba defense means that jimmer will a) likely remain a poor defensive player and b) likely remain a flustered ball handler. now, hopefully he can remedy these problems. he's quite driven, if the scouts are to be believed. but, if the scouts are, in fact, to be believed, then they've gotten it right everywhere else, too, except in one key area: shooting percentage. jimmer is only just starting to find his offensive groove. i'm still amazed that its been so difficult this season for such a prolific offensive player to find the bottom of the net. it should also be noted that he posted numbers of 4.3 assists to 3.5 turnovers per game at BYU. that's not a real great ratio for a "PG." its the same thing people complain about with respect to tyreke, though 'reke's assist to turnover ratio is much better. and that won't improve too much if he can't find his handle. jimmer's just not built to be an nba starter, in my opinion. more to the point, i think he's going to have to redefine his game if he wants to find success in this league. i think he's going to have to mold himself into an off-the-ball spot up shooter. he's such a dead-eye that he can be the 3-pt threat the kings need off the bench. there's nothing wrong with that, either. guys like that always have a job in the nba. they're always coveted, and every team needs that skill set...

 

[D13]

...and here we go. So Jimmer doesn't have the leagues best handles, but not that bad... and he makes up for it with excellent court vision and BB IQ. It's likely a big part of it is just a confidence thing. He had a couple great moves tonight and a fast break... and he did a good job running plays and setting up people. Handles can be improved, I would bet this will be the focus of his off season. Lil time please.

 

[Tetsujin]

...and here we go. So Jimmer doesn't have the leagues best handles, but not that bad... and he makes up for it with excellent court vision and BB IQ. It's likely a big part of it is just a confidence thing. He had a couple great moves tonight and a fast break... and he did a good job running plays and setting up people. Handles can be improved, I would bet this will be the focus of his off season. Lil time please.

Tis a part of being a fan. Every mistake is a worldbreaker, every triumph the heralding of a new era.

 

[sactownfan]

Tis a part of being a fan. Every mistake is a worldbreaker, every triumph the heralding of a new era.

NO

not even close... come on now...

everyone here has seen him dribble... he is always guarded in his stance... hunched over and WAY OVER PROTECTING the ball....

 

[UK_King]

Yes, he needs to work on his dribbling if he wants to become effective in this league. Am i surprised there are Rookies in the league with serious deficiencies in their games? Ur no.

We could have a thread for every single player on their team and how they're not great at something but i hardly think it's worth it.

 

[sanho]

We could have a thread for every single player on their team and how they're not great at something but i hardly think it's worth it.

we do have those threads, just not all on the first page at once, you got to use the search feature

 

[UK_King]

oh i must have subconsciously ignored them.

 

[mac]

I don't know bout you, but I'm very encouraged to see Jimmer's improvement. He's starting to be one of our best players off the bench. Salmons is fitting into his new role nicely as well.

 

[Nighthawk1]

Jimmer is the only player with a brain on our team I think

 

[king4life89]

Yall needa stop hating on jimmer hes getting better and better every day hes comin you watch!

 

[LWP777]

I was actually fairly impressed with his ball handling tonight. He's starting to show more change of pace type moves and a couple of times I saw him dribble between a double team. Like you said, I think it's more about a lack of confidence right now than it is the ability to actually do it. He's shown a lot of growth in the past few weeks. Get off his jock.

 

[BMiller52]

I was actually fairly impressed with his ball handling tonight. He's starting to show more change of pace type moves and a couple of times I saw him dribble between a double team. Like you said, I think it's more about a lack of confidence right now than it is the ability to actually do it. He's shown a lot of growth in the past few weeks. Get off his jock.

Agreed, stop hating. His dribbling seems to be making progress every game now, and he's starting to play a lot better. No reason for this type of complaint.

 

[king4life89]

specialy after he just played a great game...

 

[Bricklayer]

Agreed, stop hating. His dribbling seems to be making progress every game now, and he's starting to play a lot better. No reason for this type of complaint.

What has largely happened is that we have changed how we are using him. The OP specializes in extremist takes, but the basic observation that Jimmer can't play PG in this league because his handle is weak is mroe or less true. He actually does have good court vision. He's not a spectacular paser, but he's a solid one and he can make the right pass at the right tiem. The problem is that all season long we've seen that whenever opposing teams want to get aggressive and jump his dribble Jimmer has no answer for it. Since that is kind of exactly the opposite of what you expect/need from a PG its a major limitation. What we have figured out is if we have somebody else handle the ball, then give it to Jimmer when it comes time to make a play, it works better. But that makes him more of a SG. And dribbling, especially for an older rookie like Jimmer is not one of those things you typically radically improve, especially since many of Jimmer's problems seem to be atheltic in nature with longer faster opponents able to smother him and get to his dribble in a way that college kids could not.

 

[jthompson1]

I actually feel like he is getting better and showing a lot of improvement..

 

[macadocious]

I was actually fairly impressed with his ball handling tonight. He's starting to show more change of pace type moves and a couple of times I saw him dribble between a double team. Like you said, I think it's more about a lack of confidence right now than it is the ability to actually do it. He's shown a lot of growth in the past few weeks. Get off his jock.

This doesn't mean what you think this means.

 

[rexb_kings]

Well, i'm actually starting to think players who come to the Kings become whimps after awhile. I don't know, if it's the Kings FO, culture, training staff, coaching, team structure. But if you look at players who come here they start to degrade or not flourish. I'm not going to enumerate but that is the trend i'm seeing. I could imagine Cousins, if he's on another team i bet he's an all-star by now and killing the league, and on the other hand i could visualize Kevin Love with the Kings, he'd be the next Spencer Hawes. Also with Tyreke, with a different team, he'd be in the Rose, Westbrook conversation for sure. So going back with Jimmer, if he had been with the Knicks i don't think we'd be hearing Linsanity but Jimmer mania. He could be with another team and i could see him flourish or at least contributing a lot better. IT on the other hand is a breathe of fresh air and hopefully he continues to perform at this level, although i don't see him as a permanent fix for our PG woes.

I do miss the Divac/Webber days where every player played beyond there potential. Here's to hoping Kings would turn this around soon and players start clicking on all cylinders and become relevant again.

 

[Glenn]

I have always thought that Jimmer's major problem was a lack of confidence. He entered the NBA coming from a lesser level program than many players come from and perhaps because of his lack of knowledge and probably even aided by his fans, thought he would simply transition to the NBA without a hitch. It didn't happen. It's like walking outdoors in Minnesota when it is warm and toasty inside and when you open the door on a windy, cold day, whap! you have to shift gears quickly. It's a horrible shock that takes your breath away.

Jimmer didn't know what to do and his facial expressions seemed to indicate the fact that he felt lost. As time went on, he got used to the increased size and speed and no longer fell into the traps the opponents were setting for him. His swagger is coming back and with that swagger comes his shooting. He is beginning to look like he did at BYU. His distribution skills are not extraordinary but they are adequate. At least he isn't hurting us on offense.

I'm in no mood or inclination to criticize his dribbling. I hadn't even noticed anything wrong with his dribbling. I have been too busy oohing! and aahing! about his shooting. Let him play the way he is and let's be happy. For awhile he didn't look like he would survive his first year - not uncommon for a rookie. Now he looks like he can contribute. There are things he can work on and that means he will probably improve. Only time will tell. I like what I am seing and this need to criticize is getting old.

 

[Glenn]

Well, i'm actually starting to think players who come to the Kings become whimps after awhile. I don't know, if it's the Kings FO, culture, training staff, coaching, team structure. But if you look at players who come here they start to degrade or not flourish. I'm not going to enumerate but that is the trend i'm seeing. I could imagine Cousins, if he's on another team i bet he's an all-star by now and killing the league, and on the other hand i could visualize Kevin Love with the Kings, he'd be the next Spencer Hawes. Also with Tyreke, with a different team, he'd be in the Rose, Westbrook conversation for sure. So going back with Jimmer, if he had been with the Knicks i don't think we'd be hearing Linsanity but Jimmer mania. He could be with another team and i could see him flourish or at least contributing a lot better. IT on the other hand is a breathe of fresh air and hopefully he continues to perform at this level, although i don't see him as a permanent fix for our PG woes.

I do miss the Divac/Webber days where every player played beyond there potential. Here's to hoping Kings would turn this around soon and players start clicking on all cylinders and become relevant again.

I realize no one needs my blessing on a note but I actually enjoyed this one. The first sentence caught my attention. I think you went over the top after that but just the same, you did it in a nice way. Now don't ask me what "nice" means. At least the hair did not raise on the back of my neck.

I miss the days of Webber and Divac as they seemed like magical years. Every man knew his role and the team was better than the sum of its parts. I attribute that to Adelman/Carril and the collection of guys that were put together by Petrie. I also attribute it to the the kind and gentle giant who seemed to mother hen everyone when they needed it. You know who I mean. That guy who went back to his homeland to do bigger and better things.

I hope those days return as I believe we are beginning to sort out the prople we want on the team and the ones we don't want. We can see the mismatched parts. Some are underachieving and may become more valuable in the future like Salmons, Hayes, and Jimmer, none of whom should be a starter in case people want to nit pick. We still don't know what we have in Hassan but as lost as he seems, he is giving definite signs that he can contribute. He's just a kid.

Remember, in the Webber/Vlade era, we had a huge payroll. I believe the team lost money. Perhaps revenue sharing and the excitement with the new arena and the inevitable large jump in ticket prices that will go along with the new arena will allow the Maloofs to duplicate that spending spree. We can only hope. The time is now.

 

[treach1976]

The big take away from last night IMHO was that last night may be the most Jimmer has looked like a point guard all season. He actually looked like an ok point guard. He was in the paint several times, his scoring wasn't great but he made some tricky passes. He does "crouch" over the ball to much. He seems guarded. I'm attributing that to a lack of confidence after getting stripped a few two many times and probably living with the lecture that Smart gave him after the game (I get the feeling that Smart really rides the rooks). But he had nice stutters and behind the back dribbles that fooled the D. If you do that enough, they will start to respect you and back off so that they don't show up on Sports Center getting smoked by you. Also, anybody can get overrun and stripped in a double team - D-Wade was stripped on a few crucial plays in the Finals and even dribbled off of his foot at one point.

 

[treach1976]

btw- have you noticed that Jimmer has a tricky steal attempt that probably accounts for half of his steals. He loves to wait until his opponent picks up his dribble. And then after about 1 second he suddenly jumps straight up in the air (even before a pass is telegraphed). Half the time he ends up jumping up in the air for no reason and it looks silly, but every once in a while he guesses right and the defender throws the ball right to him.

 

[AL/kfan]

Okay, Jimmer has a problem facing up and dribbling against a defender or trying to juke him out of position to drive past him left or right. Earlier this season a double coverage would seem to easily get him in trouble which often resulted in a turnover. But lately, while maybe not seeing major dribbling improvement he does seem to have improved an early awareness of the defensive pressures around him while keeping the ball moving and an eye out to prevent himself from being trapped. I agree that this is very basic for any point guard, a capability he should have learned in high school. But the sticky wicket is that now Jimmer’s playing against the big boys and the best defenders in the world. Look, Jimmer wasn't drafted as the next Steve Nash, he was drafted because he was the best gol-darn shooter in college basketball. Many teams that we play bring someone off the bench that always’ seem to kill us. They run in draining shot after shot from long range. So like some others here have mentioned, maybe there could be a long career for Fredette coming off the bench for the Sacramento Kings. Let it be our turn to bring someone in who could possibly give us a quick 10 or 12 points. And if it ever turns out to be more than that so much the better. Over the years I've seen King player’s move on to other teams and later they turn out to hurt us badly when we play against them and I wouldn’t want to happen to us from Freddette. Look, I don't have any real say in the matter but as a fan I think the upside with Jimmer Fredette is more than enough for me to want to keep him on the Kings roster for many years to come. I don’t know if his dribbling will ever improve much but I’m looking forward to soon see him shooting three’s way past 50%.

 

[Npliam]

I have always thought that Jimmer's major problem was a lack of confidence. He entered the NBA coming from a lesser level program than many players come from and perhaps because of his lack of knowledge and probably even aided by his fans, thought he would simply transition to the NBA without a hitch. It didn't happen. It's like walking outdoors in Minnesota when it is warm and toasty inside and when you open the door on a windy, cold day, whap! you have to shift gears quickly. It's a horrible shock that takes your breath away.

Jimmer didn't know what to do and his facial expressions seemed to indicate the fact that he felt lost. As time went on, he got used to the increased size and speed and no longer fell into the traps the opponents were setting for him. His swagger is coming back and with that swagger comes his shooting. He is beginning to look like he did at BYU. His distribution skills are not extraordinary but they are adequate. At least he isn't hurting us on offense.

I'm in no mood or inclination to criticize his dribbling. I hadn't even noticed anything wrong with his dribbling. I have been too busy oohing! and aahing! about his shooting. Let him play the way he is and let's be happy. For awhile he didn't look like he would survive his first year - not uncommon for a rookie. Now he looks like he can contribute. There are things he can work on and that means he will probably improve. Only time will tell. I like what I am seing and this need to criticize is getting old.

FWIW Jimmer got significantly better every year at BYU. Not only did he improve a little, he improved a lot every year. He is also not nearly as un-athletic as he gets judged here. Go look at his combine stats. He isn't an overly great athlete but he is smart enough to figure out what works and athletic enough to be able to take advantage of it.

 

[bajaden]

NO

not even close... come on now...

everyone here has seen him dribble... he is always guarded in his stance... hunched over and WAY OVER PROTECTING the ball....

Look, Jimmer needs to improve his ball handling. I've said as much on more than one occasion. But he's far from horrible. Do we always have to go to extremes. He missed a freaking layup last night, and people on the fourm are going ballistic commenting on his inability to hit a simple layup. Never mind that Tyreke, Thornton, Thompson, Hayes and Greene all missed layups in the game. Some more than one. But oh no, its Jimmer that can't make a layup! Never mind that he shot 50% for the game.

So yes, his ballhandling needs to improve, and the other teams get the scouting reports, and they pressure him. But horrible, come on. He's a rookie in his first year in the NBA, and you have him condemmed already. How many times did he turn the ball over last night? Zero!!!! Cut the kid some slack, and give him some time. He'll improve. As far as his shot goes, I don't have a worry in the world about that. Its not that he's having trouble getting his shot off, he's simply not taking the shot when its there. He seems more intent on trying to set up others than score himself.

Ballhandling is an aquired skill. So there's no reason he can't become effecient at it. He's certainly as athletic as many of the PG's in the league. You know, now that I think about it, maybe the rest of the players might try and protect the ball more. I guess if your a great ballhandler and you drive into traffic and turn it over like IT did twice, and Tyreke did twice, and Thornton did once, then its OK, because at least you get style points.

 

[sactownfan]

Look, Jimmer needs to improve his ball handling. I've said as much on more than one occasion. But he's far from horrible. Do we always have to go to extremes. He missed a freaking layup last night, and people on the fourm are going ballistic commenting on his inability to hit a simple layup. Never mind that Tyreke, Thornton, Thompson, Hayes and Greene all missed layups in the game. Some more than one. But oh no, its Jimmer that can't make a layup! Never mind that he shot 50% for the game.

So yes, his ballhandling needs to improve, and the other teams get the scouting reports, and they pressure him. But horrible, come on. He's a rookie in his first year in the NBA, and you have him condemmed already. How many times did he turn the ball over last night? Zero!!!! Cut the kid some slack, and give him some time. He'll improve. As far as his shot goes, I don't have a worry in the world about that. Its not that he's having trouble getting his shot off, he's simply not taking the shot when its there. He seems more intent on trying to set up others than score himself.

Ballhandling is an aquired skill. So there's no reason he can't become effecient at it. He's certainly as athletic as many of the PG's in the league. You know, now that I think about it, maybe the rest of the players might try and protect the ball more. I guess if your a great ballhandler and you drive into traffic and turn it over like IT did twice, and Tyreke did twice, and Thornton did once, then its OK, because at least you get style points.

his handles are the worst i've ever seen for a guard... by far the worst... I get uncomfortable watching him he looks so frightened and awkward.... its horrible to watch a great defender on him but oh lord when Jimmer gets doubled he seriously just hands the ball to the other team... go back and watch all the times he got trapped and followed it up with a crazy TO...

he reminds me of when your learning to play basketball/ dribble and you stare at the ball as it bounces up and down... he's that bad...

sure he can move with it a little bit... hey so can i playing pick up at the gym... he's slightly better when he gets running downhill with some momentum and he has shown that if he looks up!!! he can find players. he can make a good pass here and there... he's shown to have a few good moves (footwork) to get a shot when he's picked up his dribble... (which he does way too often at usually at the worst times) ... this is the NBA these are the best couple hundred players in the world... most guards can flash a good pass here and there, but I'm not seeing anything remotely special from him YET.... hitting back to back 3's is his highest moment as far as I'm concerned.

all conversations about or ending with jimmer EVER PLAYING PG need to stop now... he lacks all natural ability to play that position. he is gonna be a J.J. Redick clone eventually.... after jimmer rediscovers how to shoot around 40+ % from 3 land...

I honesty hope I'm wrong ... but he's gonna be a NBA role player .... I expect he stays in the league a long time but as a bench player.

 

[roasthawg]

He looks very good offensively to me... maybe lacking in confidence some and trying a little too hard to fit in but give him a year or two and I think he'll be a force.

 

[rainmaker]

Sactownfan, not sure if you'll agree with this but I'll point it out anyway. Jimmer's ball handling was not good at all for a good chunk of the season. Teams scouted him, came up with a game plan, and pressured him and trapped him every time he touched it, and it completely threw him off.

But, I;ve seen improvement the past 2 weeks or so in a key area. I think he's been working with BJax. Anyway, what I've noticed is he's surveying the floor much better, and if he dribble to within 10-15 ft and nothing is there, where he previously would have picked up his dribble, he's dribbling back out and resetting the offense, or calling for a screen. That's a big step in the right direction imo. He still needs to get rid of the ball when the trap is coming at half court, but in the halfcourt offense, i;ve definitely seen considerably improvement in him not getting stuck in bad areas and keeping his dribble alive. Keeping the dribble alive and not getting stuck is what has allowed him to use the baseline more frequently of late, where he's created a number of good shots for others.

And for a rookie, we look for improvements. That's a key one given it'll help him free himself up for shots down the road or finding passing lanes for others.

 

[sactownfan]

Sactownfan, not sure if you'll agree with this but I'll point it out anyway. Jimmer's ball handling was not good at all for a good chunk of the season. Teams scouted him, came up with a game plan, and pressured him and trapped him every time he touched it, and it completely threw him off.

But, I;ve seen improvement the past 2 weeks or so in a key area. I think he's been working with BJax. Anyway, what I've noticed is he's surveying the floor much better, and if he dribble to within 10-15 ft and nothing is there, where he previously would have picked up his dribble, he's dribbling back out and resetting the offense, or calling for a screen. That's a big step in the right direction imo. He still needs to get rid of the ball when the trap is coming at half court, but in the halfcourt offense, i;ve definitely seen considerably improvement in him not getting stuck in bad areas and keeping his dribble alive. Keeping the dribble alive and not getting stuck is what has allowed him to use the baseline more frequently of late, where he's created a number of good shots for others.

And for a rookie, we look for improvements. That's a key one given it'll help him free himself up for shots down the road or finding passing lanes for others.

Thomas is a PG... guy can flat out see the floor and handle the ball... he has made a ton of mistakes but Thomas is a rookie and has flashed more than enough to prove he can play at this level...

Jimmer? SG all the way... you don't come to the NBA to learn how to be a PG... just ask Tyreke Evans... haha... but seriously Jimmers taking baby steps forward but man seems a bit late to learn how to dribble... he needs to be like eddie house or JJ Redick and just catch and shoot or catch , quick little dribble move shoot...

but running a team and the offense.... ITS NEVER GONNA WORK... its way too painful to watch...he's way too far behind in natural instincts and ability. this is the NBA ... he's a shooting, Shooting guard thats it.

 

[Livinthedream]

Sactownfan, not sure if you'll agree with this but I'll point it out anyway. Jimmer's ball handling was not good at all for a good chunk of the season. Teams scouted him, came up with a game plan, and pressured him and trapped him every time he touched it, and it completely threw him off.

But, I;ve seen improvement the past 2 weeks or so in a key area. I think he's been working with BJax. Anyway, what I've noticed is he's surveying the floor much better, and if he dribble to within 10-15 ft and nothing is there, where he previously would have picked up his dribble, he's dribbling back out and resetting the offense, or calling for a screen. That's a big step in the right direction imo. He still needs to get rid of the ball when the trap is coming at half court, but in the halfcourt offense, i;ve definitely seen considerably improvement in him not getting stuck in bad areas and keeping his dribble alive. Keeping the dribble alive and not getting stuck is what has allowed him to use the baseline more frequently of late, where he's created a number of good shots for others.

And for a rookie, we look for improvements. That's a key one given it'll help him free himself up for shots down the road or finding passing lanes for others.

I agree with this. The problems I see now are things I suspected would happen. Quick, physical guards with long arms pressuring him gives him problems. I think the speed of the game and the athleticism shocked him and hurt his confidence a bit. At this level, once your opponent smells fear, it's all over. I think Smart has been working with Jimmer a lot and toughening him up. Trying to give him some confidence back by not having him worry about anything but shooting, and making being a pg secondary. Teaching Jimmer the value of change of pace when dribbling and so on. I see some improvement and that's all I can ask for. My expectations were not as high as a lot of others, so what he's going through doesn't bother me that much. It would bother me if Jimmer just shriveled up and went away. But it appears Jimmer is putting in the work and trying to find the things he can be good at at this level.