Jimmer to Cavs for pick?

#61
Can Salmons defens as well at the SG position as Tyreke? Evans was agood defender and Salmons was a pretty good defender at the SF position which is not his primary spot. If Salmons is our best defender at the SG then how about him instead of Thornton. If that would work it would clear the way to package Thornton in a trade for value.

Just wishful thinking on my part.
 
#62
This is of course assuming the Top 10 picks aren't end of the bench rotational players themselves.
Indeed. But unless your OKC-esq, with a lotto pick, every top 10 pick should play a crucial role for your team. You drafted them that high, you need to see what your investment is. Especially when the faced with playing our alternatives we had. I understand if Kevin Love is getting in the way of Robinson playing time. But James Johnson? Travis Outlaw? Absolutely asinine we couldn't get Robinson 20 consistent MPG to at least try and develop a rhythm and feel for the game.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Staff member
#63
Can Salmons defens as well at the SG position as Tyreke? Evans was agood defender and Salmons was a pretty good defender at the SF position which is not his primary spot. If Salmons is our best defender at the SG then how about him instead of Thornton. If that would work it would clear the way to package Thornton in a trade for value.

Just wishful thinking on my part.
He is the best defensive guard left on the roster. But there is no room for him to get minutes there, and frankly we somehow still likely have him slotted form some SF minutes.
 
#64
No, but he was the best we had, and he was he only one with the potential to be that good. He was a classic guy that a good defensive coach could turn into a strong defender. Nobody can make Kyle Korver defend. But a good coach can make Tyreke Evans defend.

The two rooks may or may not down the road. Mac actually did not look impressive on that end in summer league, but McCallum could be good. But rookies aren't going to have much impact on that end as rookies, and McCallum may or may not ever be able to get enough minutes to do more than be a Toney Douglas or Luther Head deep bench defender. Which brings us back to a hopeless defensive backcourt, and worse yet, a defensive backcourt that would put tremendous pressure on even a good defensive frontcourt, let alone one without a shotblocker to clean up all the drives in the lane.
I know this is nitpicking but Kyle Korver from the advanced stats I've seen is actually not a bad defender. Plus he's played on good defensive teams before. The Bulls under Thibs and on the Hawks. He's definitely not locking down anyone but he's not a guy that the other team just isolates against all the time either.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Staff member
#65
I know this is nitpicking but Kyle Korver from the advanced stats I've seen is actually not a bad defender. Plus he's played on good defensive teams before. The Bulls under Thibs and on the Hawks. He's definitely not locking down anyone but he's not a guy that the other team just isolates against all the time either.
Many "advanced" stats, particularly defensive ones, have a hell of a time separating individual competence from teamwide competence.
 
#67
I know this is nitpicking but Kyle Korver from the advanced stats I've seen is actually not a bad defender. Plus he's played on good defensive teams before. The Bulls under Thibs and on the Hawks. He's definitely not locking down anyone but he's not a guy that the other team just isolates against all the time either.
When the Korver played for the Jazz teams would always attack him as soon as he entered the game. He usually more than held his own.
 
#68
Many "advanced" stats, particularly defensive ones, have a hell of a time separating individual competence from teamwide competence.
Actually, "only defensive" stats have a hell of a time separating individual competence from teamwide competence. It is very similar to baseball in that offensive statistics are AGES ahead of defensive ones
 
#69
That's why I said send him down to the D-League. All the NBA teams scout the D-League. Maybe he can impress a team. As far as taking minutes away from anyone, well, if he can play well enough to take away minutes, then I don't have a problem with that. As long as he earns the minutes. Unlike you and some others, I don't think a player necessarily stops improving at age 24 or 25. There's no doubt that his handle needed improvement when he arrived, and I think it did improve a little last season. He'll never be Tyreke Evans with the ball, but he may become good enough to be a back up PG at some point. Now whether the Kings want to sit around and wait is a different story. If they can acquire and asset for him, then definitely do it. All I'm saying is don't give him away.
Not having to pay his salary is worth more than keeping him. As little as he makes, he's worth much less. If this was the nfl, they'd have to cut him. He's a PG who can't get the ball past half court or set up an offense. Those are givens for pgs at any level.
 
#71
There is ZERO guarantees that both rookies crack the rotation and Jimmer must know this is a make or break year for him with that team option looming. However the pg position plays out that leaves MT almost unchallenged for the starting 2. As for Jimmer all he needs to do is beat out the two rooks and he has a chance to get respectable mins behind MT.

That's it? Well shoot. He's set then.

I'm not sure there's a guard in the league jimmer would beat out. I really don't.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#73
Not having to pay his salary is worth more than keeping him. As little as he makes, he's worth much less. If this was the nfl, they'd have to cut him. He's a PG who can't get the ball past half court or set up an offense. Those are givens for pgs at any level.
He brought the ball up the court many times last season without difficulty. You don't have to go to extremes to make your point. His first year he struggled, but last year he improved. You can refuse to acknowledge it if you want, but facts are facts. Does that make him great? No, but I'd like to see how much he's worked on his game this offseason. They don't have guaranteed contracts in the NFL, and they also have a hard cap. Different animal. They also have a roster four times the size of an NBA team.
 
#75
I don't care much for Jimmer but the reality is someone must sit on the bench. Also- his skill set- deep range and some marketability- are not bad things to have sitting on the bench.

Unfortunately for Jimmer, he does remind of the Maloofs cash flow problems and their impact on basketball operations. That is not his fault though. Right now he is a rookie contract guy with some value and it would do no harm to keep him.
 
#76
I don't care much for Jimmer but the reality is someone must sit on the bench. Also- his skill set- deep range and some marketability- are not bad things to have sitting on the bench.

Unfortunately for Jimmer, he does remind of the Maloofs cash flow problems and their impact on basketball operations. That is not his fault though. Right now he is a rookie contract guy with some value and it would do no harm to keep him.
And we have IT/McCallum for that. At this point, Jimmer is pretty much deadweight to the Kings imo.
 
#79
And we have IT/McCallum for that. At this point, Jimmer is pretty much deadweight to the Kings imo.
I am sure IT will play a meaningful role throughout the season. I don't know that McCallum will offer more than Jimmer (I am sure someone can nit pick an argument together but really who cares!).

Point is this- All teams need deadweight to fill out a roster. As deadweight, Jimmer has value. He can shoot. he can play some point guard. He could sit on the bench and still be marketed somewhat. He is on a rookie contract so is still relatively cheap.

If there is a realistic scenario where removing Jimmer allows for a significant improvement of the team...great. Until then though let's pick our battles...

...

Quickly- what does IMO mean? I see it all the time here but haven't a clue...
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
#80
I am sure IT will play a meaningful role throughout the season. I don't know that McCallum will offer more than Jimmer (I am sure someone can nit pick an argument together but really who cares!).

Point is this- All teams need deadweight to fill out a roster. As deadweight, Jimmer has value. He can shoot. he can play some point guard. He could sit on the bench and still be marketed somewhat. He is on a rookie contract so is still relatively cheap.

If there is a realistic scenario where removing Jimmer allows for a significant improvement of the team...great. Until then though let's pick our battles...

...

Quickly- what does IMO mean? I see it all the time here but haven't a clue...
In My Opinion - and IMHO is In My Humble Opinion.

:)
 
#81
I am sure IT will play a meaningful role throughout the season. I don't know that McCallum will offer more than Jimmer (I am sure someone can nit pick an argument together but really who cares!).

Point is this- All teams need deadweight to fill out a roster. As deadweight, Jimmer has value. He can shoot. he can play some point guard. He could sit on the bench and still be marketed somewhat. He is on a rookie contract so is still relatively cheap.

If there is a realistic scenario where removing Jimmer allows for a significant improvement of the team...great. Until then though let's pick our battles...

...

Quickly- what does IMO mean? I see it all the time here but haven't a clue...
McCallum looked to have decent defensive instincts and ability and pretty good ability to get to the rim in summer league. At the very minimum, that is something that is not duplicative with our other guards. I would think that would be worth a roster spot.

I'm still not a fan of drafting him, but he outplayed my expectations in summer league.
 
#82
He brought the ball up the court many times last season without difficulty. You don't have to go to extremes to make your point. His first year he struggled, but last year he improved. You can refuse to acknowledge it if you want, but facts are facts. Does that make him great? No, but I'd like to see how much he's worked on his game this offseason. They don't have guaranteed contracts in the NFL, and they also have a hard cap. Different animal. They also have a roster four times the size of an NBA team.
Oh, well good for jimmer. What's to discuss? He a pg who many times last year got the ball past half court? Is that the best you can say about him?

He was drafted to be the starting PG. I'm not sure he has the skills to do that even in the d league. So his position is sg? We already have 2-3 of them (salmons, mclemore and Thornton) who are way better or show way more potential than he does. As horrible as salmons is, he's still a better defender than jimmer. Salmons might be the only avg defender in the backcourt right now. The rest are below avg.

There's a reason everyone was jumping for joy at the thought of trading him for a second round pick. Sorry u can see reality. If any team offered anything at all, he'd be gone already.

After his very first summer league game, I said he'd last 3 seasons then run a car dealership in Utah. He may last longer as a 12th man somewhere cause of his marketability, but even on the kings, he's the last guard on the bench. It was a horrible pick that they need to cut ties with one way or another.
 
#83
I can see now that discussing this with you is a waste of my time.
Ok, calling him the worst guard in the nba might take it too far. :). But honestly, if you can find a team that would give jimmer minutes, please share. Cause he can be had on the cheap, and still no one wants him.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#84
Oh, well good for jimmer. What's to discuss? He a pg who many times last year got the ball past half court? Is that the best you can say about him?

He was drafted to be the starting PG. I'm not sure he has the skills to do that even in the d league. So his position is sg? We already have 2-3 of them (salmons, mclemore and Thornton) who are way better or show way more potential than he does. As horrible as salmons is, he's still a better defender than jimmer. Salmons might be the only avg defender in the backcourt right now. The rest are below avg.
Says who?
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Staff member
#85
Yeah, that was the hope. We dumped Beno to make room for him because the Maloofs got chubbies after watching Juan Barea mini-chuck his way to the series of his life against Miami. So they thought that a PG sized non-PG chucker of their own would be the way to win a title too.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#86
Yeah, that was the hope. We dumped Beno to make room for him because the Maloofs got chubbies after watching Juan Barea mini-chuck his way to the series of his life against Miami. So they thought that a PG sized non-PG chucker of their own would be the way to win a title too.
... But, Barea didn't start? Hell, his minutes went down in the playoffs.

EDIT - I see, on review, that the only three games he started the entire postseason were the last three games of the Finals. But, even then, he had a better series against OKC, and much better series against the lakers. The Finals games probably seemed like a bigger deal because of the spotlight, I'll grant you.
 
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bajaden

Hall of Famer
#87
Ok, calling him the worst guard in the nba might take it too far. :). But honestly, if you can find a team that would give jimmer minutes, please share. Cause he can be had on the cheap, and still no one wants him.
I don't have a problem with reasonable conversations, but when you make extreme statements about a player. I know its popular to bash Jimmer, and many will jump on the bandwagon with you. I'm not for bashing anyone not named Maloof. Jimmer has talent, but in some other areas, he's lacking. I think we can all agree on that. So the discussion is about what you can get for him. Its been reported that the Kings aren't shopping Jimmer, but that there are teams calling them about Jimmer. If true, then apparently someone is interested in Jimmer.

Now for all I know, they may be offering nothing more than a case of beanie weenies. If I'm the Kings, and its my intent to move him, then I give him a lot of minutes in preseason games, and try to put him in a position to look as good as he can. Hell, maybe he'll even surprise us. I hate to keep pointing out that Jimmer isn't the first player to come into the league and struggle his first few years. Steve Nash was terrible his first two years in the league, and didn't really break out till his 5th year. Not saying that Jimmer is the second coming of Nash, just pointing out that sometimes it takes players longer than we might think to succeed.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#88
There's a big difference in not looking good when you play behind Kevin Johnson and Jason Kidd (and Sam Cassell?), and not looking good when you play behind Isaiah Thomas.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#89
There's a big difference in not looking good when you play behind Kevin Johnson and Jason Kidd (and Sam Cassell?), and not looking good when you play behind Isaiah Thomas.
Perhaps as an immediate comparison, but not looking good is not looking good regardless of who else in on the team. You've got to quit bashing IT like that. :D