Jimmer and The Bench

NoBonus

NoBonus

Starter
I have been watching a lot of Kings basketball for a long time and, I am glad to see that since the Rudy Gay trade, Jimmer has gotten one heck of a promotion in minutes. Jimmer's defense looks way better than before, however, what happened to his shooting confidence? I saw him double pump on an unguarded 12 footer... I saw him pass an open shot on the corner of the key... I think we all expected and continue to expect him to knock down open shots all day long, but he seems to have lost all confidence. Very hard to watch...

And speaking of hard to watch, when the team is in all-bench mode, like at points in the Atlanta game, do you ever feel like the team is just in free fall? Jimmer not shooting, instead passing to Acy for a 3-point attempt? And is it just me or does Gray remind anyone of Solomon Grundy when he is on the floor?
 
Jimmer would warrant more PT if he showed he has some killer instinct behind the 3 but he appears to me to be hesitant to pull the trigger and that alone makes it very hard to keep him on the floor.
 
upinsmoke said:
Jimmer would warrant more PT if he showed he has some killer instinct behind the 3 but he appears to me to be hesitant to pull the trigger and that alone makes it very hard to keep him on the floor.
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I suspect it's what Coach Malone wants. He has made no bones about preferring paint attacks to draw fouls and to prevent fast breaks off of long rebounds. Still, I'd rather have Jimmer shooting a three than Outlaw dribbling once to take a contested 19 foot jumper.
 
NoBonus said:
I have been watching a lot of Kings basketball for a long time and, I am glad to see that since the Rudy Gay trade, Jimmer has gotten one heck of a promotion in minutes. Jimmer's defense looks way better than before, however, what happened to his shooting confidence? I saw him double pump on an unguarded 12 footer... I saw him pass an open shot on the corner of the key... I think we all expected and continue to expect him to knock down open shots all day long, but he seems to have lost all confidence. Very hard to watch...

And speaking of hard to watch, when the team is in all-bench mode, like at points in the Atlanta game, do you ever feel like the team is just in free fall? Jimmer not shooting, instead passing to Acy for a 3-point attempt? And is it just me or does Gray remind anyone of Solomon Grundy when he is on the floor?
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Frankly, listening to Jerry continue to not get it was even more annoying than usual on this one.

Yes, Jimmer actually hesitated on shots...you know what, GOOD. Not good he lacks confidence. But Jimmer has limited PG skills anyway. Him coming in the game looking to gun like its BYU is absolutely no different than Isaiah racing down the court chanting Me-Me-Me-Me Me-Me-Me-Me to the Meow Mix jingle -- it freezes his teammates out. the guy with the ball can ALWAYS gun like an idiot. He's got the ball. All he's got to be is selfish and tunnel vision enough and he can take 80 shots a game. But when you are in that position you have a responsibility to more people than just yourself. This isn't 1 on 1. So as long as Jimmer is coming off the bench as a POINT guard, not a SHOOTING guard, he's got to think. He has to move that ball. If he hesitates later in the shotclock, or on an open spotup after the ball is kicked to him with his feet set or something, sure. Problem. If he hesitates to give Jerry a chubby with a pullup contested three on the break, GOOD.
 
Bricklayer said:
Frankly, listening to Jerry continue to not get it was even more annoying than usual on this one.

Yes, Jimmer actually hesitated on shots...you know what, GOOD. Not good he lacks confidence. But Jimmer has limited PG skills anyway. Him coming in the game looking to gun like its BYU is absolutely no different than Isaiah racing down the court chanting Me-Me-Me-Me Me-Me-Me-Me to the Meow Mix jingle -- it freezes his teammates out. the guy with the ball can ALWAYS gun like an idiot. He's got the ball. All he's got to be is selfish and tunnel vision enough and he can take 80 shots a game. But when you are in that position you have a responsibility to more people than just yourself. This isn't 1 on 1. So as long as Jimmer is coming off the bench as a POINT guard, not a SHOOTING guard, he's got to think. He has to move that ball. If he hesitates later in the shotclock, or on an open spotup after the ball is kicked to him with his feet set or something, sure. Problem. If he hesitates to give Jerry a chubby with a pullup contested three on the break, GOOD.
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I would like to see Jimmer shoot more because the obvious difference between he and IT is that Jimmer is coming off the bench. There was a time in the last game where there was absolutely no fire power on the court except for Jimmer and Williams. I would like Jimmer to take whatever open shot he can find in hat situation. He will NEVER be like IT in his mentality. In short, telling Jimmer to shoot has a different result than telling IT to shoot.

Maybe we are saying the same thing.
 
Bricklayer said:
Frankly, listening to Jerry continue to not get it was even more annoying than usual on this one.

Yes, Jimmer actually hesitated on shots...you know what, GOOD. Not good he lacks confidence. But Jimmer has limited PG skills anyway. Him coming in the game looking to gun like its BYU is absolutely no different than Isaiah racing down the court chanting Me-Me-Me-Me Me-Me-Me-Me to the Meow Mix jingle -- it freezes his teammates out. the guy with the ball can ALWAYS gun like an idiot. He's got the ball. All he's got to be is selfish and tunnel vision enough and he can take 80 shots a game. But when you are in that position you have a responsibility to more people than just yourself. This isn't 1 on 1. So as long as Jimmer is coming off the bench as a POINT guard, not a SHOOTING guard, he's got to think. He has to move that ball. If he hesitates later in the shotclock, or on an open spotup after the ball is kicked to him with his feet set or something, sure. Problem. If he hesitates to give Jerry a chubby with a pullup contested three on the break, GOOD.
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Hahahaha! Funny! I get where you are coming from, but he is not taking the open shots inside the key in favor of passing to one of the Legion of Doom (Solomon Grundy, Gorilla Grodd, Scarecrow, Captain Cold, Black Mantis, etc). The Kings need him to pass, but he needs to provide some scoring production, especially when whole second unit is on the floor.
Legion_of_Doom.jpg
 
He's probably staring down the bench at the rotting corpse that was once Marcus Thornton... (and was his fate only a few weeks ago). His fall from grace will make you question your game.
 
I'd like to see Jimmer never play another minute for this team. Makes no sense since he's not going to be here next year, plus he can't play PG very well.
 
dude12 said:
I'd like to see Jimmer never play another minute for this team. Makes no sense since he's not going to be here next year, plus he can't play PG very well.
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Who would you rather have come off the bench? I would like to see Ray but I trust Malone knows the skill level and NBA maturity level of both Jimmer and Ray. It doesn't mean they will be at the same place a few years from now but right now, I suspect Jimmer is doing better in practice.
 
Jimmer doesn't think he can get his shot off. Ain't you guys noticed that he has the slowest release ever?
 
cuad said:
Jimmer doesn't think he can get his shot off. Ain't you guys noticed that he has the slowest release ever?
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This is a conversation stopper. Can you see that? It's an absurd statement. I suspect there are a few people in the world that are slower but I'm not going to list them much less go back in history to find millions if not billions more. If he can get a shot off without it being blocked or altered, it's fast enough.
 
Jimmer is the second best PG right now... and it's not great. But at least this rebuild is focused on getting better starters... Also, when does Landry come back?
 
So let's play Kings Bench/Legion of Doom association:

Jimmer: Brainiac - totally over-thinking it right now
Thornton: Captain Cold (I hope that changes)
Outlaw: The Riddler (Riddle me this, Why isn't he more effective?)
Gray: Solomon Grundy (Solomon Grundy mad!)
 
This isn't about Jimmers slow release, which has gotten faster since he first arrived. Its about Jimmer passing up wide open shots. That's what I don't want him to do. The whole idea of any offense is to get someone an open shot, preferably, a good shooter. Other than that, I like Jimmer trying to get others involved. What I want to address is the perception that Jimmer has no PG skills. Jimmer has played PG his entire life. All of highschool, and all four years at BYU. Now that doesn't always make you into a great PG, but you do learn something along the way.

Jimmers biggest problem when he arrived, had nothing to do with his PG skills but everything to do with his ballhandling. Which has since improved, and he's now quite capable of bringing the ball up the floor. He's also capable of getting to the basket. Jimmer has always been a good passer, its just that at BYU, he didn't have anyone to pass the ball to. He's always had good court vision and he has good BBIQ.

Now what all that will finally add up to, is anyone's guess. He's never going to be Steve Nash. I personally think the best thing that could happen to Jimmer is to get a new start somewhere. Sometimes its just a matter of fit. A player doesn't have to be either Terrible, or Great. The majority of players in the NBA are somewhere in the middle between those two extremes. That's where Jimmer is. The problem he has here, is that most people expected him to be more. Unfortunately reality seldom meets expectations.

What would be fun. Well fun for me, would be for Jimmer to be allowed to play one game like he played at BYU. Let him play 39 minutes in one game and just give him carte blanche to do what he wants out there. Sort of a going away present so to speak. Even at BYU, Jimmer wasn't someone that was instant offense. It always took him some time on the floor to get into the flow, and then suddenly he would explode. Probably never going to happen in the NBA, but it would be fun to see it just once.
 
Glenn said:
Who would you rather have come off the bench? I would like to see Ray but I trust Malone knows the skill level and NBA maturity level of both Jimmer and Ray. It doesn't mean they will be at the same place a few years from now but right now, I suspect Jimmer is doing better in practice.
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I suspect he's getting playing time so we can move him. I'd rather play Marcus Thornton at PG than Jimmer. He'd probably do a better job...and before anyone says that MT isn't a PG......well is Jimmer?
 
dude12 said:
I suspect he's getting playing time so we can move him. I'd rather play Marcus Thornton at PG than Jimmer. He'd probably do a better job...and before anyone says that MT isn't a PG......well is Jimmer?
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Yeah, um ... no. If somebody is gonna take Jimmer, it's not gonna be because they like what they see. It's gonna be because they think he can bring something to their team he hasn't shown in Sacramento.

At this point, Jimmer is pretty much untradeable.
 
VF21 said:
Yeah, um ... no. If somebody is gonna take Jimmer, it's not gonna be because they like what they see. It's gonna be because they think he can bring something to their team he hasn't shown in Sacramento.

At this point, Jimmer is pretty much untradeable.
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We should flat out cut him then and bring in D League guy then or other Free Agent at a minimum contract. Ill predict that once we make our next trade and the roster gets resolved particularly with Jimmer, Ray will play. There is no reason for Jimmer to play unless its with hope that he can string some good games together in exchange for a 2 nd round pick or be part of our next trade package as a filler / expiring contract. I don't believe for a second that Jimmer is playing better in practice than Ray....has to be other reasons.
 
dude12 said:
We should flat out cut him then and bring in D League guy then or other Free Agent at a minimum contract. Ill predict that once we make our next trade and the roster gets resolved particularly with Jimmer, Ray will play. There is no reason for Jimmer to play unless its with hope that he can string some good games together in exchange for a 2 nd round pick or be part of our next trade package as a filler / expiring contract. I don't believe for a second that Jimmer is playing better in practice than Ray....has to be other reasons.
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Did u watch ray tonight in garbage time? Garbage
 
Lennox said:
Did u watch ray tonight in garbage time? Garbage
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Ray looked better in his 5 minutes than Jimmer dude. He drove into the lane at the end, got stopped , kicked it out to Acy. Jimmer drives into the lane, jumps up with no where to go, throws it away and falls down like a high schooler learning to play varsity ball. Ray has ...what ....20 minutes of playing experience compared to Jimmer who has full seasons under his belt.
 
dude12 said:
We should flat out cut him then and bring in D League guy then or other Free Agent at a minimum contract. Ill predict that once we make our next trade and the roster gets resolved particularly with Jimmer, Ray will play. There is no reason for Jimmer to play unless its with hope that he can string some good games together in exchange for a 2 nd round pick or be part of our next trade package as a filler / expiring contract. I don't believe for a second that Jimmer is playing better in practice than Ray....has to be other reasons.
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You can't cut a player. When a player signs a contract, he gets that money whether he is any good or not. This is not the NFL.
 
I'm not so sure the top teams in Europe would take Jimmer. I watch/follow a fair amount of Euro ball and I don't think the top three teams in any of Russia, Spain, France or Serbia would offer him a contract. I don't see it although I do think he could be quite successful in Europe. Maybe he could do something similar to what Trajon Langdon did in Russia.

His handle kills him. It doesn't matter where or when he played PG outside of the NBA. There's thousands of guys who've played PG in HS, college and Europe who didn't have the handle necessary to succeed in this league or even get a shot and no, at this age Jimmer won't suddenly improve his handle enough to be an NBA PG. Can he play backup SG for someone? That'd be his hope but he can't guard opposing SG's unless it's a strictly spot up shooter/defender like a Thabo.

A Reddick role is still his best bet but there's differences there. Reddick is taller. He's more athletic. He's a better shooter at this level and gets to his spots quicker, but most importantly is a better defender who can match up against SG's. Another aspect which I wish Jimmer would confront is he has no edge to him at all. He looks like he doesn't believe he belongs. Reddick is scrappy. He's gritty. Gets in guys faces and frustrates them. He's not an above average defender but all that adds up to him not being a liability most nights either. He holds his own. Just listen to how CP3 talked about previous matchups with him when LA signed him.

I just don't see near enough improvement from Jimmer to give me any confidence he'll be in the league in 2-3 years. IMO he wouldn't get much time for Madrid, Barca, CSKA, Partizan, Olympiacos, Red Star, among others. But who knows, maybe a team trades for him, plays him off the ball as a backup 2 and he comes in and gives 10-12 pts a night and regains the confidence he had in college. It's possible, I just don't see it anywhere near likely.
 
I think after tonight there's a fair chance the answer to this thread title is "will be becoming closely acquainted".
 
J-J-J-Jimmer and the bench.
Doot. Doot. Doot. Doot.
Doot doo doo doo
You know I saw him shoot
Saw the kid take a three
Was on the cover of a magazi-iine, oh
Jimmer and the bench.
 
VF21 said:
BIG difference between a second-round pick rookie and Fredette. Trying to build up Fredette by dumping on Ray is a bush league move.
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Its also bush league to build up McCallum by dumping on Jimmer. One doesn't become better at the expense of the other. McCallum has the skill level to be a good player in the league, but lacks the experience. Jimmer has the experience, but lacks some of the attributes, other than shooting, that McCallum has. That's just life in the NBA. The other night, and last night for a bit, Jimmer was on the floor with Outlaw at the SG position. Now that's the hand he's been dealt, but you have to admit that IT has a couple of better options when he's on the floor. \

As an aside, I didn't have to grade last nights game, so I spent the entire game concentrating on IT and his defense. Then this morning I read the Bee, and there's IT expounding on how were selfish on defense. Well, he should know. Just one small example. Cousins goes out to the top of the key to guard Bosh. IT's man slides in behind Cousins and sets a back screen. Bosh cuts around Cousins as Cousins runs into a backscreen he doesn't know is there. Of course Bosh scores, and if you watched Cousins, he was barking at IT after the play for not letting him know about the screen. This sort of thing went on throughout the game. IT is an absolutely terrible defender. He cheats into the passing lanes, and then gets beat by his man. He leaks out early on what he perceives to be missed shots. He gets caught up in screens far too easily, and then just becomes a spectator.

Now I don't like to pick on a player, but since he brought it up in the paper, he's fair game. I like IT, and I think he's the perfect off the bench PG. But he's not capable of playing both ends of the floor, which is something I can live with off the bench, but not as my starting PG. I'm not saying get rid of IT, although I suspect he'll be traded, I'm saying we need a starting PG that can contribute at both ends of the floor. On the whole, I thought the Kings took the matador defense to a whole new level last night. Well done!
 
It doesn't take a basketball genius to see that Ray Mac's ballhandling skills are in another world compared to Jimmers. I just hope Dude is right and there are other reasons Jimmer is playing, because it doesn't fare well if it's simply a coaches decision. It better change after last night, as there is no excuse for an NBA player in his 3rd year to play like he did last night. I was rooting for Jimmer to be good, but that possibility is long gone.
 
bajaden said:
Its also bush league to build up McCallum by dumping on Jimmer. One doesn't become better at the expense of the other. McCallum has the skill level to be a good player in the league, but lacks the experience. Jimmer has the experience, but lacks some of the attributes, other than shooting, that McCallum has. That's just life in the NBA. The other night, and last night for a bit, Jimmer was on the floor with Outlaw at the SG position. Now that's the hand he's been dealt, but you have to admit that IT has a couple of better options when he's on the floor. \

As an aside, I didn't have to grade last nights game, so I spent the entire game concentrating on IT and his defense. Then this morning I read the Bee, and there's IT expounding on how were selfish on defense. Well, he should know. Just one small example. Cousins goes out to the top of the key to guard Bosh. IT's man slides in behind Cousins and sets a back screen. Bosh cuts around Cousins as Cousins runs into a backscreen he doesn't know is there. Of course Bosh scores, and if you watched Cousins, he was barking at IT after the play for not letting him know about the screen. This sort of thing went on throughout the game. IT is an absolutely terrible defender. He cheats into the passing lanes, and then gets beat by his man. He leaks out early on what he perceives to be missed shots. He gets caught up in screens far too easily, and then just becomes a spectator.

Now I don't like to pick on a player, but since he brought it up in the paper, he's fair game. I like IT, and I think he's the perfect off the bench PG. But he's not capable of playing both ends of the floor, which is something I can live with off the bench, but not as my starting PG. I'm not saying get rid of IT, although I suspect he'll be traded, I'm saying we need a starting PG that can contribute at both ends of the floor. On the whole, I thought the Kings took the matador defense to a whole new level last night. Well done!
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“Coaches can’t do nothing,” Thomas said. “It’s the players that play. We have to go out there and have a mindset of being a defensive player and giving the effort. Defense isn’t easy. I don’t know if guys think it’s supposed to be easy but it’s too hard, so they’re not doing it. First off, we’re not communicating – that’s half the battle right there. Secondly, we’re not helping each other, not giving the effort. It’s embarrassing.”

Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/2013/12/20/6018628/kings-play-horrible-defense-in.html#storylink=cpy

Is he embarrassed by his team mates? Who is he talking about? He is speaking as if he isn't a big part of the problem. IT has his own agenda and I suspect a lot of it has to do with the next contract. He knows darn well guys who score make more money that guys who play defense. He seems oblivious to his own faults. He may not be the major problem but he is not a part of the solution at all.
 
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