Jason Jones on Tyreke

[VF21]

Bottom line, my take on Evans is that he'll never be the guy we were hoping he would be, so let's try to squeeze as much juice out of him as possible by inflating his trade value before the deadline and sending him packing. The mistake the Kings made last year, was having this silly line of thinking that IT could win ROY, and that basically F'd everything up. Otherwise, we could have had Evans back at PG, and could have pumped his value enough that maybe Evans and #36 overall could be heading towards Charlotte for #2 overall. We could have Beal and MKG to pair with Cousins as our trifecta of future megastars. But no..... we had to keep giving IT crazy minutes with the wishful thought that he'd be ROY and the talk of the NBA considering he was the last pick.

Bottom line might be that while Evans isn't what SOME thought he might be, he has shown many others that he has talents we didn't even consider. All this blah, blah, blah stuff about him being some kind of failure just gets incredibly old after a while. Personally, I think people need to put down the NBA2012 or whatever version they're using now, and quit expecting players to be perfect. Evans isn't perfect, but he's got skills that will be an asset for years to come.

I guess I'll just never understand the need of some to constantly use the "grass is always greener" mentality. It's just not realistic...

 

[mac]

I think the Bobcats "MIGHT" be interested in Reke, had we played him exclusively at PG last year, and really tried to pump up his trade value by making everything run thru Evans, and basically just trying to make him as much of a stat machine as possible.


Now, whether or not that strategy would have meant that we might have won a couple more games than we did.... well.... I'm not sure about that. Maybe, maybe not. Still, even if we won like 5 more games and ended up with the 8th pick, we'd have No.2 and No.8, and could still potentially come away with 2 cornerstone type guys to pair with Cousins. Of course, all of this is contingent on whether or not Jordan would be dumb enough to be fooled by the fool's gold as well. I'm thinking he would be dumb enough. But yeah, it's a gamble.


Regardless, we bungled any chance we had at getting decent value for Reke this summer by playing him at SF, so this discussion is pretty much moot anyways.

Still it depends on whether you're "artifically" inflating Reke's stats or whether he's actually getting those stats playing in a good offense. Anyway, you've made it clear that you don't believe Reke will meet his potential and that he isn't a player that we need to keep on the team, so this discussion is pretty much moot anyways.

 

[mac]

Bottom line might be that while Evans isn't what SOME thought he might be, he has shown many others that he has talents we didn't even consider. All this blah, blah, blah stuff about him being some kind of failure just gets incredibly old after a while. Personally, I think people need to put down the NBA2012 or whatever version they're using now, and quit expecting players to be perfect. Evans isn't perfect, but he's got skills that will be an asset for years to come.

I guess I'll just never understand the need of some to constantly use the "grass is always greener" mentality. It's just not realistic...

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and analysis of every player. Now their opinion could be incredibly stupid or it could turn out to be correct. It's of course silly to say that Evans is a bust, useless etc at this point, but I think questioning whether or not he reaches his potential is a valid avenue in which everyone can be entitled to their own opinion. Personally I think that he will surprise us in a good way next season (provided we keep him here). So far all the signs are pointing towards him being in excellent shape and putting in the necessary work to take the next step to becoming an all star and beyond. Let's just hope he doesn't get injured.

 

[Glenn]

Don't waste your time, Glenn. It's pointless. Use the ignore function.

I know. Sometimes it's fun picking on ... never mind.

 

[Telemachus]

I'm mystified by the people that want Evans at SG. His biggest weakness is the fact that he can't shoot (yeah, I know he's working on it), so let's move him to the position that is normally held by the number 1 gunner. Now, if we somehow end up with Lillard, who is a good shooter at PG, then I could maybe see Evans playing with him in the backcourt, and we'd having a shooting PG, with a driving SG, which is normally vice-versa, but it might work out ok. Other than that, Evans needs to be back at PG. I've said it numerous times, but Evans league-wide value is at one of it's lower points in his pro career, so I'm not a huge fan of trading him NOW, because I don't want to get screwed in the deal. My ideal scenario is Evans is back at the PG, and we basically run everything thru him, and make him the No.1 focal point of the offense. Not because such a strategy makes long-term sense, but to inflate his trade value as much as humanly possible before the deadline. Then deal him for close to fair value.

Right now, we can't get fair value in trade for him. I'd be willing to trade Evans for the 6th overall pick, and come out of this draft with both MKG and Lillard, but I'm guessing that Portland wouldn't be interested in that. I'd also be willing to trade Evans to any of the teams ahead of us, for their pick, but again, doubtful any of those teams would be willing to give up such a high pick for Evans. Yes, Evans was 4th overall, and ROY, but again, he seems to be a player that doesn't fit very well. A talented player, no doubt, but a player that doesn't seem to fit very well. If Evans was scoring 20+ every night and dropping 7 or 8 dimes every night, then I think we can get some decent value for him, and that's why I think we should have a "pump-up-Evans-trade-value" strategy, in the short term, but I seriously doubt the Maloofs or GP would be crafty or cutthroat enough to think along those lines.

I think sometimes people take the name "shooting guard" too literally. Last time I checked, neither Kobe or MJ were good outside shooters when they entered the league, but no one ever questioned playing them at SG. AI was NEVER a good outside shooter in his career, but still spent most of it playing SG. Now I'm not saying that Tyreke will as good as those players, just tying to make a point. Most SGs are scorers in this league, but not all of them are good outside shooters.

 

[ParniValjak]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and analysis of every player. Now their opinion could be incredibly stupid or it could turn out to be correct. It's of course silly to say that Evans is a bust, useless etc at this point, but I think questioning whether or not he reaches his potential is a valid avenue in which everyone can be entitled to their own opinion. Personally I think that he will surprise us in a good way next season (provided we keep him here). So far all the signs are pointing towards him being in excellent shape and putting in the necessary work to take the next step to becoming an all star and beyond. Let's just hope he doesn't get injured.

I am all for valid debates that bring context and legitimate arguments to the table. None of this pie in the sky stuff! So Tyreke is not a shooting guard because he can't shoot and the name of the position suggest that you have to be able to shoot to be a SG argument does not wash water with me as there have been many championships won with SG who can't shoot.

So going by those definitions should be also be saying that PF needs to have a power game and not jack up jump shot after jump shot from mid range out to 3PT line?! In that case Dirk is not a PF should not be a hall of famer and you cannot win a championship with that player. All of which of course are not true and quite frankly as laughable as the SG needs to be a good shooter claim.

I don't mind debates with context and valid reasoning behind it but when it comes with some far fetched claims then it just becomes a moot point. Tyreke is not perfect and certainly has some real areas of concern in his game but overall the type of game he plays is the type of game that is suited to play off basketball and contending teams. He is elite at what he does (getting to the hoop) and quite frankly that area of the game is much more valuable that having the ability to shoot a jumper at a good percentage. Its the type of game that bends the defence and creates a point of difference. Slowing down a shooter is much easier.

Now Tyreke absolutely needs a consistent jump shot to make life for himself and his team a hell of a lot easier.

 

[kingsnation]

More Tyreke news: He'll join the Kings in Las Vegas during Summer League, which Smart wants the entire team to do.

Wow, the entire team is going to be in Vegas for Summer League? I don't like many moves by Smart, but admittedly I like this one.

 

[Admiral]

Oh please!!!!

so...I actually was distracted enough by this ridiculous post to stop reading productive comments and say something about this one. While I don't agree that Petrie working with Tyreke means he's going to recognize that he needs to be traded, but does this devil's advocate view - or at worst, just different - really warrant calling someone a crying baby for people overreacting to an opinion? This is the kind of post that stops me from posting more frequently on this otherwise generally good forum. Please continue.

 

[mac]

so...I actually was distracted enough by this ridiculous post to stop reading productive comments and say something about this one. While I don't agree that Petrie working with Tyreke means he's going to recognize that he needs to be traded, but does this devil's advocate view - or at worst, just different - really warrant calling someone a crying baby for people overreacting to an opinion? This is the kind of post that stops me from posting more frequently on this otherwise generally good forum. Please continue.

Huh. Cuad was totally trolling everyone for saying that Geoff Petrie working with Tyreke is proof that Tyreke would not be traded, when no one ever said that in this thread, and then went on to say we were picking on him...

 

[Admiral]

Huh. Cuad was totally trolling everyone for saying that Geoff Petrie working with Tyreke is proof that Tyreke would not be traded, when no one ever said that in this thread, and then went on to say we were picking on him...

so we sink to the level of posting crying babies? That doesn't seem a bit extreme considering the topic? Why not just ignore it and move on. I won't claim to have gone back and read all of cuad's posts, so maybe I'm way off base and this is a common occurrence, but someone exaggerating posts and taking the perceived conclusions about Petrie's actions to the "extreme" that everyone was thinking hardly counts as trolling in my opinion. A misinterpretation of what people are saying? Absolutely; but there have been MUCH more wild conclusions drawn from people's posts on this forum than turning "That suggests Petrie won't trade him" into ""that says Petrie won't trade him" and then giving an opposing view.

And now I'm irritated at myself for having posted anything in the first place because it's going to become an even bigger distraction from the discussion anyway. Everyone respond away to this, but I will not waste any more energy on it and will just ignore the garbage posts from now on.

 

[Bricklayer]

I think sometimes people take the name "shooting guard" too literally. Last time I checked, neither Kobe or MJ were good outside shooters when they entered the league, but no one ever questioned playing them at SG. AI was NEVER a good outside shooter in his career, but still spent most of it playing SG. Now I'm not saying that Tyreke will as good as those players, just tying to make a point. Most SGs are scorers in this league, but not all of them are good outside shooters.

I used to prefer the term "off guard" to "shooting guard" for that very reason. The defining trait of the off guard is that he handles the ball less than the point guard (hence he's "off" the ball), NOT that he's necessarily a great shooter. In fact few of the elite teams employ great shooters at OG. Dwayne Wade, Thabo Sefalosha, Ronnie Brewer, Paul George, Landry Fields, Evan Turner, Delonte West etc. are not guys who have built their careers on great shooting ability. Nor did Doug Christie during our own golden era.

 

[mac]

so we sink to the level of posting crying babies? That doesn't seem a bit extreme considering the topic? Why not just ignore it and move on. I won't claim to have gone back and read all of cuad's posts, so maybe I'm way off base and this is a common occurrence, but someone exaggerating posts and taking the perceived conclusions about Petrie's actions to the "extreme" that everyone was thinking hardly counts as trolling in my opinion. A misinterpretation of what people are saying? Absolutely; but there have been MUCH more wild conclusions drawn from people's posts on this forum than turning "That suggests Petrie won't trade him" into ""that says Petrie won't trade him" and then giving an opposing view.

And now I'm irritated at myself for having posted anything in the first place because it's going to become an even bigger distraction from the discussion anyway. Everyone respond away to this, but I will not waste any more energy on it and will just ignore the garbage posts from now on.

Haha chill bro. I think it does have a lot to do with cuad's history. But anyway, take my advice, you're best served simply ignoring these things. It'd be great if you'd participate more in Kings-related discussion, I'm sure your opinions would be much welcomed

 

[mac]

I used to prefer the term "off guard" to "shooting guard" for that very reason. The defining trait of the off guard is that he handles the ball less than the point guard (hence he's "off" the ball), NOT that he's necessarily a great shooter. In fact few of the elite teams employ great shooters at OG. Dwayne Wade, Thabo Sefalosha, Ronnie Brewer, Paul George, Landry Fields, Evan Turner, Delonte West etc. are not guys who have built their careers on great shooting ability. Nor did Doug Christie during our own golden era.

I always just thought of the terms as well ... terms, and nothing more. What's a point guard? A guard that scores points? Shooting guard a guard that shoots? Small forward = a SMALL forward (then why don't we just settle for Evans at SF?). They're just names of terms given to describe a player's usual role and place on the court, not to be taken quite so literally.

 

[Spike]

Now that you mention it, I haven't seen much power from JT, and Cousins is always near the rim, not at center court...

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Now that you mention it, I haven't seen much power from JT, and Cousins is always near the rim, not at center court...

Look at me! I'm a point guard!

 

[Kingster]

Absolutely nothing new in this article. Tyreke is in shape - we heard that last year. Tyreke is working on his jump shot - we heard that last year. And is it news that teams are interested? So what's new - that the Kings aren't fervently trying to trade him? They don't have to. They have teams calling them, which is exactly what you want; not the other way around. REHASH.

 

[mac]

Absolutely nothing new in this article. Tyreke is in shape - we heard that last year. Tyreke is working on his jump shot - we heard that last year. And is it news that teams are interested? So what's new - that the Kings aren't fervently trying to trade him? They don't have to. They have teams calling them, which is exactly what you want; not the other way around. REHASH.

You may not mean this, but what I take away from this post is that you 100% expect to see Tyreke come into the season the same exact player he was last season, with no jumpshot.

 

[gunks]

Absolutely nothing new in this article. Tyreke is in shape - we heard that last year. Tyreke is working on his jump shot - we heard that last year. And is it news that teams are interested? So what's new - that the Kings aren't fervently trying to trade him? They don't have to. They have teams calling them, which is exactly what you want; not the other way around. REHASH.

Actually this is the first year we've heard about Reke being in shape, the last 2 offseasons he came in overweight. And whats wrong with hearing that he's working on his shot every summer? We WANT to hear that he's working on his shot every summer! At least until it shows enough improvement to be a threat, which never happens in just one offseason.

I get your pessimism. Reke has had 1 ROY season followed by two duds. But come on dude, he's 23 (or is it 22?), and hasnt had any good coaching since coming here. Dude was never going to blow up into instant super stardom. Lower those expectations. As long as he can improve his decision making and get up to a solid 20/5/5 again, he's going to be a great compliment to Cousins.

 

[Kingsguy881]

Look at me! I'm a point guard!

Thanks for the laugh!!!

 

[Anthony1]

I totally understand that you can have a SG or "off guard" that isn't a good shooter, but I still don't think Reke's talents are best utilized at SG. His No.1 talent is taking the ball to the rim, and so if we put him at SG, then we are going to have him standing around near the 3 point line, wondering what the heck he's supposed to do. Reke needs the ball in his hands. You take the ball out of Reke's hands, and you're not taking advantage of his true talents. Ever see Reke come off a screen and hit an outside shot? Neither have I. That isn't his game.

Ok, we know that Reke doesn't have the greatest court awareness, and he's not the most ideal set up man, but he still has some tremendous skills, and he's a huge threat with the ball in his hands. Look at Westbrook. Westbrook is not the "ideal' PG. When you watch Westbrook play, you're not having visions of John Stockton. Still, Westbrook has a tremendous talent, and he's normally a huge net positive to his team. Reke belongs at the PG spot, whatever team he ends up going to. Playing him anywhere else is just going to negate his value.

Having said all that, I'd rather just trade the dude away, but don't want to end up with scraps in return. That's why I'm saying we need to pump up his value before the deadline and move him. Whatever team he goes to (or if he stays with the Kings), he has to go back to PG, because seeing Reke playing without the ball is actually quite painful.

 

[Section 101]

I totally understand that you can have a SG or "off guard" that isn't a good shooter, but I still don't think Reke's talents are best utilized at SG. His No.1 talent is taking the ball to the rim, and so if we put him at SG, then we are going to have him standing around near the 3 point line, wondering what the heck he's supposed to do. Reke needs the ball in his hands. You take the ball out of Reke's hands, and you're not taking advantage of his true talents. Ever see Reke come off a screen and hit an outside shot? Neither have I. That isn't his game.

Ok, we know that Reke doesn't have the greatest court awareness, and he's not the most ideal set up man, but he still has some tremendous skills, and he's a huge threat with the ball in his hands. Look at Westbrook. Westbrook is not the "ideal' PG. When you watch Westbrook play, you're not having visions of John Stockton. Still, Westbrook has a tremendous talent, and he's normally a huge net positive to his team. Reke belongs at the PG spot, whatever team he ends up going to. Playing him anywhere else is just going to negate his value.

Having said all that, I'd rather just trade the dude away, but don't want to end up with scraps in return. That's why I'm saying we need to pump up his value before the deadline and move him. Whatever team he goes to (or if he stays with the Kings), he has to go back to PG, because seeing Reke playing without the ball is actually quite painful.

Not. Evans on a break is 50/50 he makes the right play. Yes he can get to the basket a lot of the times, but many times he misses the easy play ahead. In the half court, Evans is not the one you want initiating the offense or running the pick and roll. Now he give the ball while he's in motion with the defense moving and he will be very successful. I don't think his shot attempts should go down, they just need to with him moving w/o the ball first. The less decisions Evans has to make with the ball the better the movement.

And most people think Westbrook should be moved to SG.

 

[Bricklayer]

And most people think Westbrook should be moved to SG.

Yes, most people who have it figured out more than a young team that just reached the Finals and looks to do so repeatedly over the next decade.

 

[Glenn]

Actually this is the first year we've heard about Reke being in shape, the last 2 offseasons he came in overweight. And whats wrong with hearing that he's working on his shot every summer? We WANT to hear that he's working on his shot every summer! At least until it shows enough improvement to be a threat, which never happens in just one offseason.

I get your pessimism. Reke has had 1 ROY season followed by two duds. But come on dude, he's 23 (or is it 22?), and hasnt had any good coaching since coming here. Dude was never going to blow up into instant super stardom. Lower those expectations. As long as he can improve his decision making and get up to a solid 20/5/5 again, he's going to be a great compliment to Cousins.

I wish we had three other duds like Tyreke. Or do I mean "dudes?" (scratching head)

 

[Agent23]

Yes, most people who have it figured out more than a young team that just reached the Finals and looks to do so repeatedly over the next decade.

I heard the most profound statement by Jeff Van Gundy about Westbrook and Steve Francis. My greatest mistake was trying to change Francis. I should have done what Scott Brooks has done with Westbrook and lived with the bad and the good.

 

[bajaden]

so...I actually was distracted enough by this ridiculous post to stop reading productive comments and say something about this one. While I don't agree that Petrie working with Tyreke means he's going to recognize that he needs to be traded, but does this devil's advocate view - or at worst, just different - really warrant calling someone a crying baby for people overreacting to an opinion? This is the kind of post that stops me from posting more frequently on this otherwise generally good forum. Please continue.

If it was applied to you, it would be unfair. But you have to consider the source. Some people come here to have intelligent discussions. I have yet to see this individual say anything intelligent. His intentions appear to be extremely provocative. Thus the use of the word troll. So to my mind, he's either a troll, or he' lacks any basketball knowledge.

 

[bajaden]

I always just thought of the terms as well ... terms, and nothing more. What's a point guard? A guard that scores points? Shooting guard a guard that shoots? Small forward = a SMALL forward (then why don't we just settle for Evans at SF?). They're just names of terms given to describe a player's usual role and place on the court, not to be taken quite so literally.

I hate to date myself, but when I started watching Pro basketball, they had 2 guards, 2 forwards, and 1 center. Not sure when the term point guard came into being, but it might have been with Bob Cousey, who certainly changed what was expected from a lead guard. There have been a lot of mismatched players, or at least thought to be mismatched, that ended up playing well together. Pearl Monroe and Walt Frazier were both considered lead guards who had to have the ball in thier hands to be effective. But they played well together and won a championship. Of course they had Willis Reed on that team as well.

 

[roasthawg]

There have been a lot of mismatched players, or at least thought to be mismatched, that ended up playing well together.

Lebron and Wade. Durant and Westbrook. Good players often find a way to coexist and win a lot of basketball games together.

 

[mac]

I hate to date myself, but when I started watching Pro basketball, they had 2 guards, 2 forwards, and 1 center. Not sure when the term point guard came into being, but it might have been with Bob Cousey, who certainly changed what was expected from a lead guard. There have been a lot of mismatched players, or at least thought to be mismatched, that ended up playing well together. Pearl Monroe and Walt Frazier were both considered lead guards who had to have the ball in thier hands to be effective. But they played well together and won a championship. Of course they had Willis Reed on that team as well.

I know not what you speak, old man

 

[Kingster]

You may not mean this, but what I take away from this post is that you 100% expect to see Tyreke come into the season the same exact player he was last season, with no jumpshot.

All this is just talk. Just like last year. No difference: He's in shape, working on his jump shot; Derrick Rose workout partner; working on his diet. Blah, blah, blah. SHOW ME ON THE COURT. Until then, I don't give it any credence. It sounded real good every summer. And it didn't turn out very well. He's got to prove it on the court.