Jason Jones: Don't expect kings to make a splash in free agency

[Capt. Factorial]

Yes, we have to add somebody, the minimum players on a roster is 13 and Kings have to add bodies to make up the numbers. The point is, we probably have no room for a MLE guy.

Kings are deep in the wing position (at least in quantity, quality remains to be seen) , it isn't a big deal if Cisco or Beno or both goes down.

We're really not anywhere near as deep at the wing as we are in the post. In the post we've got CL, JT, SD, DMC, HW, and everybody anticipates JB covering two positions, or three guys per position. In the backcourt, in total we have TE, BU, FG, OC, DG covering three positions, or 1.67 guys per position. That's barely half as deep as the frontcourt. If you call Evans a PG and Beno a wing, we still have four guys (BU, FG, DG, OC) covering two positions, which is average depth at best. If Cisco and Beno both go down, as you suggested, we're looking at Evans, Greene, and Casspi going 48 minutes each the way we're constructed right now. That's a no-go.

Anyway, I would be surprised if we further addressed the frontcourt this offseason outside of JB. We need to add two to get to a minimum roster size, and I imagine one of them will be a 3rd-string PG. The other will need to be a wing, the only question being whether it's an MLE-type guy (Miller, Morrow) who gets minutes and deepens the rotation or whether it's a backup-type guy (Udoka, Landesberg) who warms the pine. I'm certainly not opposed to an MLE-type guy, because injuries happen. Why not be solid 1-12, giving everybody slightly lower minutes, keeping people fresh and having insurance for the inevitable missed time?

 

[mr. moustache]

Who's JB?

The Kings are looking fantastic with respect to the cap. I absolutely don't want to add any guaranteed money past this year. I'd be thrilled if we just re-upped Udoka for another year or took a flyer on a summer league guy. At the trade deadline we can make another adjustment. Adding any guaranteed money at this point is a huge opportunity cost compared with what that cap space can do for us(absorb contract for picks, get a max guy next year, etc.)

We're really not anywhere near as deep at the wing as we are in the post. In the post we've got CL, JT, SD, DMC, HW, and everybody anticipates JB covering two positions, or three guys per position. In the backcourt, in total we have TE, BU, FG, OC, DG covering three positions, or 1.67 guys per position. That's barely half as deep as the frontcourt. If you call Evans a PG and Beno a wing, we still have four guys (BU, FG, DG, OC) covering two positions, which is average depth at best. If Cisco and Beno both go down, as you suggested, we're looking at Evans, Greene, and Casspi going 48 minutes each the way we're constructed right now. That's a no-go.

Anyway, I would be surprised if we further addressed the frontcourt this offseason outside of JB. We need to add two to get to a minimum roster size, and I imagine one of them will be a 3rd-string PG. The other will need to be a wing, the only question being whether it's an MLE-type guy (Miller, Morrow) who gets minutes and deepens the rotation or whether it's a backup-type guy (Udoka, Landesberg) who warms the pine. I'm certainly not opposed to an MLE-type guy, because injuries happen. Why not be solid 1-12, giving everybody slightly lower minutes, keeping people fresh and having insurance for the inevitable missed time?

 

[JB_kings]

Geoff Petrie told someone what he was going to do??? Not bloody likely.

Yeah he did. Pre-draft interview on KHTK.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Who's JB?

Jon Brockman.

 

[The Hammer]

We're really not anywhere near as deep at the wing as we are in the post. In the post we've got CL, JT, SD, DMC, HW, and everybody anticipates JB covering two positions, or three guys per position. In the backcourt, in total we have TE, BU, FG, OC, DG covering three positions, or 1.67 guys per position. That's barely half as deep as the frontcourt. If you call Evans a PG and Beno a wing, we still have four guys (BU, FG, DG, OC) covering two positions, which is average depth at best. If Cisco and Beno both go down, as you suggested, we're looking at Evans, Greene, and Casspi going 48 minutes each the way we're constructed right now. That's a no-go.

Anyway, I would be surprised if we further addressed the frontcourt this offseason outside of JB. We need to add two to get to a minimum roster size, and I imagine one of them will be a 3rd-string PG. The other will need to be a wing, the only question being whether it's an MLE-type guy (Miller, Morrow) who gets minutes and deepens the rotation or whether it's a backup-type guy (Udoka, Landesberg) who warms the pine. I'm certainly not opposed to an MLE-type guy, because injuries happen. Why not be solid 1-12, giving everybody slightly lower minutes, keeping people fresh and having insurance for the inevitable missed time?

Well stated. The only reason not to get a rotation guy would be money, or if they are planning on adding a more significant player next offseason, after reducing or eliminating Sammy's salary. I'm tempted to think that they'll just go ahead and pick up a Morrow and a Blake. Call it good, and just charge forward. However, there wouldn't really be too much of a big benefit to that, and it would cost us some flexibility, unless those players are willing to sign one year deals. I have a feeling we'll pick up a Morrow type player, then a minumum salaray third string PG, and see how it shakes out.

 

[The Hammer]

Yeah he did. Pre-draft interview on KHTK.

Thing about Petrie is that sometimes he DOES indicate what he's going to do. Then sometimes he just doesn't say anything, and at other times he says the exact opposite of what he is about to do. That is what makes him truly impossible to read. For example, this year, the organization basically came right out and said they wanted Cousins. Maybe they did that because they were thoroughly convinced that he would fall to them, hence there was no danger is proclaiming that, but the advantage is that you keep everybody off balance by throwing one of the above three approaches into the mix: stating what you want/are going to do.

 

[JB_kings]

Thing about Petrie is that sometimes he DOES indicate what he's going to do. Then sometimes he just doesn't say anything, and at other times he says the exact opposite of what he is about to do. That is what makes him truly impossible to read. For example, this year, the organization basically came right out and said they wanted Cousins. Maybe they did that because they were thoroughly convinced that he would fall to them, hence there was no danger is proclaiming that, but the advantage is that you keep everybody off balance by throwing one of the above three approaches into the mix: stating what you want/are going to do.

You won't get too many specifics from him. But he will offer some little tidbits of what they might be looking for to add to the team. Some of them were clearly addressed in the draft. Another one of them was adding a good perimeter shooter. Since he said pretty much the same thing to Jason Jones, then I guess you take the man at his word. The list of guys was Jason Jones input it should be noted. But it was probably a better than educated attempt.

 

[beb0p]

I'm certainly not opposed to an MLE-type guy, because injuries happen. Why not be solid 1-12, giving everybody slightly lower minutes, keeping people fresh and having insurance for the inevitable missed time?

Because 1) you don't have to have an MLE guy to form a solid 1-12. Example, Morrow was surely not an MLE guy when the W discovered him. Neither is Reggie Williams or Buike. Wing is the easiest position to fill, there is always a talented wing out there just pegging for a chance to play in the NBA. I can think of a couple quality SG who are not even in the league last season who could have put up Morrow-like stats if they're playing in a run n gun system under Nellie. As or PG, you don't spend the MLE on a third-string PG.

2) The Noc experience, or specifically what happens when a veteran being paid good money and expects to play is stuck behind two rookies in a crowded position. The Kings didn't got rid of Noc only to sign an MLE to replace him, at least I hope not.

3) Play the young, it's what rebuilding team do. I think this is a key season for Greene and Casspi. For that matter, no reason to sign anyone to take mins away from anyone in the rotation, especially Casspi and Greene.

4) Don't overpay. Assuming you're fine with a nine man rotation of Beno, Tyreke, Garcia, Landry, Dalembert, Casspi, Greene, JT, and Cousins. We're talking about the 10th, 11th, 12th, 13th man on a roster depending on where Brockman and Whiteside fit. Those spots on the roster do not command an MLE signing. They are best filled by someone who accepts limited PT, usually it's a young player with potential or an aging vet trying to hang on to the NBA. If the Kings can find the right guys, both types of guys have the ability to step in and play well when their names are called. And both types of guys can be had for the league minimum.

.

 

[Warhawk]

Thing about Petrie is that sometimes he DOES indicate what he's going to do. Then sometimes he just doesn't say anything, and at other times he says the exact opposite of what he is about to do. That is what makes him truly impossible to read. For example, this year, the organization basically came right out and said they wanted Cousins. Maybe they did that because they were thoroughly convinced that he would fall to them, hence there was no danger is proclaiming that, but the advantage is that you keep everybody off balance by throwing one of the above three approaches into the mix: stating what you want/are going to do.

I can't recall something like this off the top of my head. He always (that I can recall) either says what he will be doing or says nothing. Many times he says what he is going to do (for instance with Rubio, I think he and Jerry both said that they would not take a player that could not play the next season) but somethimes people aren't listening for the clues. Or, as we often see here, people speculate on what they think he should do to the extent that some think that is what he will do.

 

[hrdboild]

The only thing we need on our roster right now is guard depth. Omri and Donte both need a year to grow at SF so signing a vet for that position doesn't make sense right now. The biggest question is whether Tyreke starts at PG or SG. If it's the former than Beno is our third guard and Cisco is our starting SG. In that case we need another shooter off the bench. If it's the latter than Beno is our starting PG and Cisco is our third guard and we need a backup PG for spot minutes.

Moving forward I think Petrie and Westphal still see Tyreke as a PG so our biggest need is going to be finding the right match for the starting SG spot. That doesn't have to happen this year though. We'll have more caproom next summer and a better idea of what this roster is missing. So ideally we should be looking for a cheap backup PG and a one year rental at SG this offseason to split minutes with Cisco. I wouldn't even spend MLE money on someone right now unless it's a perfect fit or a one year contract.

 

[The Hammer]

I can't recall something like this off the top of my head. He always (that I can recall) either says what he will be doing or says nothing. Many times he says what he is going to do (for instance with Rubio, I think he and Jerry both said that they would not take a player that could not play the next season) but somethimes people aren't listening for the clues. Or, as we often see here, people speculate on what they think he should do to the extent that some think that is what he will do.

Well, maybe with the Kevin trade. He never came right out and said he wasn't trading Kevin, but other things he said implied that Kevin wasn't being shopped, etc. He may have said his usual, "we aren't actively looking to trade anyone, but as usual you always listen to offers" schpeel, when in fact after the trade, it seemed as if they were indeed actively shopping him to redress the lack of bigs in the lineup.

Anyway, he's damn good at not being able to get a read on.

 

[The Hammer]

The only thing we need on our roster right now is guard depth. Omri and Donte both need a year to grow at SF so signing a vet for that position doesn't make sense right now. The biggest question is whether Tyreke starts at PG or SG. If it's the former than Beno is our third guard and Cisco is our starting SG. In that case we need another shooter off the bench. If it's the latter than Beno is our starting PG and Cisco is our third guard and we need a backup PG for spot minutes.

Moving forward I think Petrie and Westphal still see Tyreke as a PG so our biggest need is going to be finding the right match for the starting SG spot. That doesn't have to happen this year though. We'll have more caproom next summer and a better idea of what this roster is missing. So ideally we should be looking for a cheap backup PG and a one year rental at SG this offseason to split minutes with Cisco. I wouldn't even spend MLE money on someone right now unless it's a perfect fit or a one year contract.

I'm still kind of baffled that people think the Kings are going to start Tyreke at SG. They've played him on the court with other combo/pgs but he IS OUR STARTING PG. It's because he is a matchup nightmare. The best pairing for him is a SG that can dribble, pass, shoot, and play D, in other words, a good SG. Garcia, when healthy, is close to that.

 

[bajaden]

Geoff Petrie told someone what he was going to do??? Not bloody likely.

Well he did state on either Grants or the Rise Guys show that the Kings still needed to add depth at the Pt guard and SG positions. He also said that someone that could play both positions would be preferable. He didn't exactly say where those players would come from, but I got the impression that they would be more filler players than impact type players.

 

[bajaden]

I'm still kind of baffled that people think the Kings are going to start Tyreke at SG. They've played him on the court with other combo/pgs but he IS OUR STARTING PG. It's because he is a matchup nightmare. The best pairing for him is a SG that can dribble, pass, shoot, and play D, in other words, a good SG. Garcia, when healthy, is close to that.

There are those out there that still insist that Tyreke isn't a point guard. Thats why they come up with trades for Lawson and then ink him at the pt and put Tyreke at the SG position. Evans is our PG. At some point, maybe ten years from now it will sink in to those that don't believe it.

 

[hrdboild]

I'm still kind of baffled that people think the Kings are going to start Tyreke at SG. They've played him on the court with other combo/pgs but he IS OUR STARTING PG. It's because he is a matchup nightmare. The best pairing for him is a SG that can dribble, pass, shoot, and play D, in other words, a good SG. Garcia, when healthy, is close to that.

Woah, hold on a second. Don't take it out on me. I don't think he's a SG. I've actually been telling all my misinformed non-Kingsfan friends that he's a PG. And it annoys me when other people make posts suggesting we go out and acquire a stud PG to pair with Tyreke because Tyreke is already a bigger stud PG than anyone potential stud PG we would replace him with....

If you read what I said in my post (the one you quoted) the question is not whether Tyreke can play PG (he can) or whether he should start at PG (I personally think so, and have argued why in the past) but whether the Kings staff will start him at PG next year alongside Cisco or will start him alongside Beno like we did this past season (which doesn't officially make him a SG, but everyone will assume it does). My question is really about the starting lineup. I agree with you that our best lineup is one with Tyreke at PG and a long guard who's at least a respectable scoring threat alongside him so the defense can't cheat. But if the Kings staff thinks differently and Beno starts alongside him, than getting a backup PG will be a bigger need than getting someone to backup Cisco (who will then be coming off the bench himself).

Does that make sense? I agree with you, our starting back court should be Tyreke and Cisco or Tyreke and some free agent SG we acquire between now and October. But I'm about 50/50 right now on whether I think the Kings staff will decide to go that direction or if they'd prefer to start Beno.

 

[fnordius]

The only thing we need on our roster right now is guard depth. Omri and Donte both need a year to grow at SF so signing a vet for that position doesn't make sense right now. The biggest question is whether Tyreke starts at PG or SG. If it's the former than Beno is our third guard and Cisco is our starting SG.

I think not.

When we drafted Evans, Westphal made it clear that he didn't expect him to be a traditional PG. We responded to Evans' acquisition by trading away our starting SG, and also let our traditional PG (Rodriguez) go. Now we're shopping for another combo guard, which tells me that the FO considers the multiple combo guard approach to be a success. (If you look at sites with in-depth statistical analysis, like 82games, you'll see that this approach does seem to work well for us.)

If what we're playing is 3-4 combo guards, the labels you're looking at don't matter. And 3-4 combo guards is what I'm betting on.