It's Time Maloofs ... Fire Petrie (chapter 2)

[mac]

Ah at least it's only for 2(and a half?) years or something. But honestly what is the point in signing Moore?? Please big trade please big trade...

 

[GoSACtown]

you guys are sleeping on moore...he is what we need, he hustles every play, he is a scrapper...he did pretty damn good in the playoffs last year, jason kidd could have had something to do with it, but hes still a hustler and a scrapper...

he was in the talks for most improved player

6 mill a year is not bad!

 

[Big Cuz 15]

there is still time in the offseason to get something done. petrie is known to pull something late in the offseason.. we'll see what happens.

 

[Gary]

I am sure if Petrie were fired 99% of us wold regret it. I learned my lesson With Adleman, so I won't be making that mistake anytime soon again!

 

[fnordius]

He's been making bad moves for years and years now. That is the scary part. Mentioned before that our front office is basically one late round flyer pick (Kevin) away from having been just dismal over the past 3-4 years. Just nothing.

Now, now. It isn't quite that bad. Justin was a good move. We can think of him as Geoff's Balkman, and Moore as Geoff's Jerome James.

That said, I now go back to holding my breath for one or more major trades.

 

[Heuge]

I am sure if Petrie were fired 99% of us wold regret it. I learned my lesson With Adleman, so I won't be making that mistake anytime soon again!

Adelman and Geoff are different situations and should not be equated. Adelman was doing a great job, IMO, when he was fired. How many players have had career years under his watch? A bunch. He was tossed with a winning team.

Geoff on the other hand, has been struggling for the last six years. A strong argument can be made that in that period of time the collection of his moves have been amongst ten worst in the league.

 

[HndsmCelt]

What amazes me aobut this thread is the assumption that the Mloofs could or would hire someone better. Unless they know alot more about GM's than they do coaches I'd say they left their taste in a $6,000 value meal.

Are there guys that could do beter than GP... I have no doubt now there are. Would they be willing and able to deal with the constant Medeling by the Owners... maybe. Would the Maloofs know him if they saw him? Doubtfull. More likely they would get some friend of the Family yes man to do things their way.

So if I say Keep Petrie it's really just to prevent further damage.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

What amazes me aobut this thread is the assumption that the Mloofs could or would hire someone better. Unless they know alot more about GM's than they do coaches I'd say they left their taste in a $6,000 value meal.

Are there guys that could do beter than GP... I have no doubt now there are. Would they be willing and able to deal with the constant Medeling by the Owners... maybe. Would the Maloofs know him if they saw him? Doubtfull. More likely they would get some friend of the Family yes man to do things their way.

So if I say Keep Petrie it's really just to prevent further damage.

great points

 

[Bricklayer]

Now, now. It isn't quite that bad. Justin was a good move. We can think of him as Geoff's Balkman, and Moore as Geoff's Jerome James.

That said, I now go back to holding my breath for one or more major trades.

No, Geoff gets limited credit for Jusitn. We are damn lucky to have him. As you recall we CUT his *** in training camp and he was out there for most of the season available for any team to sign. Apparently required some arm twisting to get him picked back up. No jumper you see.

 

[bibbinator]

I'm pissed at whoever didn't have the foresight to start tanking when it was obvious that we should have. I suppose they can blame Muss, but I would bet it was the Maloofs making a desperate reach for another 1st round exit.

 

[VF21]

No, Geoff gets limited credit for Jusitn. We are damn lucky to have him. As you recall we CUT his *** in training camp and he was out there for most of the season available for any team to sign. Apparently required some arm twisting to get him picked back up. No jumper you see.

No, Petrie gets all the credit for Justin Williams. He found him in the first place, brought him to camp, and then cut him but continued to keep an eye on him. When Williams did start showing potential in the NBDL, the Kings brought him back. Petrie didn't stumble over him in an alley.

I think you have to give at least some credit where it is due.

 

[Bricklayer]

No, Petrie gets all the credit for Justin Williams. He found him in the first place, brought him to camp, and then cut him but continued to keep an eye on him. When Williams did start showing potential in the NBDL, the Kings brought him back. Petrie didn't stumble over him in an alley.

I think you have to give at least some credit where it is due.

And hence you will note the word LIMITED credit (as opposed to none).

I however do not write blank checks just because he's the Kings GM. We cut the guy and had absolutely no control over where he went. Its just luck he was still there for us to pickup 3 months later. It was good invite after the draft, but when you then dump that asset out beside the road the fact that its still there when you come back to pick it up is sheer luck, and none of your doing.

Hence limited credit. Got the initial move right, then were shaky once more and had to get lucky. Better than no credit. Worse than actually believing in the guy and keeping control of him.

 

[Fear the Putin]

Petrie knew that Justin was not yet ready to contribute. He would much rather have seen him play big minutes in the D-League then rot on our pitiful bench. Justin was not on anybodys radar and as he started to tear the D-League a new hole, Petrie jumped on him knowing that J-Will was close to being picked off by some team.
That point aside, as VF21 stated, Petrie was also the one who found J-Will at the least populated state in the nation.

 

[VF21]

And hence you will note the word LIMITED credit (as opposed to none).

I however do not write blank checks just because he's the Kings GM. We cut the guy and had absolutely no control over where he went. Its just luck he was still there for us to pickup 3 months later. It was good invite after the draft, but when you then dump that asset out beside the road the fact that its still there when you come back to pick it up is sheer luck, and none of your doing.

Hence limited credit. Got the initial move right, then were shaky once more and had to get lucky. Better than no credit. Worse than actually believing in the guy and keeping control of him.

And, once again, we're looking at things from different perspectives. I strongly suspect Petrie kept an eye on Williams the entire time he was in the NBDL to see if Justin would, in fact, show any of the promise Petrie obviously thought he might have. You can call it lucky that Williams was still there, but I think it's equally as possible that Petrie knew what he was doing all along. Bottom line is Justin Williams is a King - not a Net, not a Maverick, etc.

 

[fnordius]

Seeing how I proposed, a day after last year's draft, that the Kings pick him up, and then got a number of fans to write to kings.com in emphatic support of the decision (immediately after he was hired for last year's Summer League), I can't really buy the idea that he was invisible until he suddenly sprang out of the DL like Athena out of Zeus' forehead. He had just finished a year as the #2 shotblocker in college basketball, which is not THAT low profile.

Top collegiate shotblockers for 2005-6
-------------------------Games played-----total blocks---blocks per game
1.Shawn James, Duquesne-------30-------------196-----------6.5
2.Justin Williams, Wyoming-------30-------------163-----------5.4
3.Shelden Williams, Duke---------33-------------123-----------3.7
4.Stephane Lasme, Massachusetts--28----------108-----------3.9
5.Eric Hicks, Cincinnati-----------31-------------102-----------3.3
6.Hilton Armstrong, Connecticut--30-------------100-----------3.3
7.Darryl Watkins, Syracuse-------34--------------99-----------2.9

 

[Heuge]

Williams wasn't exactly under the radar in Wyoming, leading the nation in blocks and leading Wyoming into the NCAA tourney. I had watched a number of his college games, hoping we would find a late second round pick to get him, although maybe I was on the west coast and had an advantage that way. Also, I am also not ready to call Justin a success yet for Petrie anyways. Since, at the moment he has filled the role of a nice 11th man.

 

[Bricklayer]

Petrie knew that Justin was not yet ready to contribute. He would much rather have seen him play big minutes in the D-League then rot on our pitiful bench. Justin was not on anybodys radar and as he started to tear the D-League a new hole, Petrie jumped on him knowing that J-Will was close to being picked off by some team.
That point aside, as VF21 stated, Petrie was also the one who found J-Will at the least populated state in the nation.

Not being ready to contribute only goes to letting him go down to the D league.

However there was nothing whatsoever preventing us from signing him to a minimum deal and then sending him to the D league anyway but with his rights protected. And that would have been fine. Likely stupid given our complete lack of everything that he brings to the court last season, but its still a standard play. We didn't. We cut him, and any team in the league could have done just what we did at any point -- offered him a 10 day, then another, then sign him outright. If the Nets, without frontcourt, offer him a 10 day 3 weeks earlier than we do, Justin never returns to the Kings and is playing for their summer league team right now. We got lucky.

And as an aside, we just signed a guy who is likely to bury Justin deep on the bench so amazingly I'm STILL not sure Geoff gets it with regards to Justin.

 

[VF21]

Not being ready to contribute only goes to letting him go down to the D league.

However there was nothing whatsoever preventing us from signing him to a minimum deal and then sending him to the D league anyway but with his rights protected. And that would have been fine. Likely stupid given our complete lack of everything that he brings to the court last season, but its still a standard play. We didn't. We cut him, and any team in the league could have done just what we did at any point -- offered him a 10 day, then another, then sign him outright. If the Nets, without frontcourt, offer him a 10 day 3 weeks earlier than we do, Justin never returns to the Kings and is playing for their summer league team right now. We got lucky.

And as an aside, we just signed a guy who is likely to bury Justin deep on the bench so amazingly I'm STILL not sure Geoff gets it with regards to Justin.

We'll never see eye-to-eye on this so you can call it luck and I'll just consider it a good move by Petrie. For all we know, however, Petrie could easily have kept in touch with Justin and/or his agent - if he had one - and just not made it public.

 

[Vlade4GM]

I think it's time for the Maloofs to sell the team.

 

[VF21]

I would have to find it, but it wasn't a random assumption. It came from one of Petrie's interviews this summer in between all the hens and other nonsense.

I found it:

"At some point, you have to take a philosophical stance, and if you keep adding four- and five-year or five- and six-year contracts, it makes it a lot more difficult to get there. Potentially, on a two-year horizon, we can naturally arrive there. The exception is if something comes up you think is really good, I think you still do that."

Petrie said attempting to get that real room following the 2008-09 season is what he is looking to do at this point. The contracts of Mike Bibby and Ron Artest (who is expected to opt out of his deal in the summer of 2008) would be off the cap.

http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21415

So, if Petrie is looking at (post) 2008-09 as his target year, and he's saying he's not going to keep adding four- and five-year contracts, the Moore signing was right in line with what he's said.

 

[dude12]

Petrie...

knows talent. He pulled KMart out of the draft late. He got Cisco late in the draft. A solid pick. The jury is out on Douby, but I'm suspecting that he's going to be a solid NBA player. He got Justin Williams and Ronnie Price off the undrafted pool...those players usually don't get drafted for a reason.

Rebuilding teams takes time unless you have the number 1-3 picks in the draft and are able to get a Lebron, Wade, etc. Kings have been stuck towards the last third of the draft trying to mine nuggets. I think he's done well....and I think he got the best guy available at 10 with Hawes.

Not sure how much influence the Maloofa have had on any trades but the Artest for Peja deal didn't suck. Anybody want Peja and HIS bloated contract....good luck with that N.O. The Webber deal basically was a no win situation after he got hurt. I call that a push since I don't think the Maloofs would ever have bought out Webber like the 76ers did.

As for his FA signings, we are not going to get a Grant Hill type guy coming to us right now and signing for low money because he wants to win a championship. So we are stuck with getting guys like Salmons and Moore. I do think that the depth here would allow us to make a deal, which I'm sure hoping. If Moore plays like he did last year, with energy, then giddyup. I don't think I can stand to watch Brad Miller and his whiny act any more. Talk about stealing money. Miller may be the worst defensive center in the league right now and apparently doesn't care about getting in shape. I also would like to see KT and his selfish act just benched....or better yet, told to stay home the first time he pulls the "I play harder when I start" crap.

I don't think there is any doubt that Hawes, Williams, Moore end up getting more than their share of minutes. In Hawes and Williams case, plenty of time to develop.

But Petrie is good at what he does. I'm glad he's here.

 

[fnordius]

Anybody want Peja and HIS bloated contract....good luck with that N.O.

Ummm, Peja's contract wasn't bloated at all. He had been hard to find a trade match for earlier, because there weren't very many players that were as underpaid as him. Plus his contract was ending: we could have just waited until the end of the season and it would have been $0.

I don't think I can stand to watch Brad Miller and his whiny act any more. Talk about stealing money.

Who do you think signed him to that contract?

But Petrie is good at what he does. I'm glad he's here.

It's fine to thank him for Kevin, Justin and Francisco, just remember to give him credit for $50M worth of slow-moving vets with bad contracts, too.

 

[VF21]

A lot of other teams are having problems with bloated contracts. In fact, it seems to becoming more common for teams to simply buy out those players and move forward.

Yes, the Kings have some contracts that aren't that attractive right now but when they were signed they were in hopes that they'd get us the O'Brien trophy. We're paying now for that failure.

I don't even want to get into the whole Peja thing again, but it's quite likely that had the Artest deal not gone down, WE might have been the team giving Peja the huge new contract. He was a favorite for a very long time around here...

Just trying to keep it real.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I don't even want to get into the whole Peja thing again, but it's quite likely that had the Artest deal not gone down, WE might have been the team giving Peja the huge new contract. He was a favorite for a very long time around here...

Too long, if you ask me...


Okay, I'll stop now...

 

[kupman]

A lot of other teams are having problems with bloated contracts. In fact, it seems to becoming more common for teams to simply buy out those players and move forward.

Yes, the Kings have some contracts that aren't that attractive right now but when they were signed they were in hopes that they'd get us the O'Brien trophy. We're paying now for that failure.

I don't even want to get into the whole Peja thing again, but it's quite likely that had the Artest deal not gone down, WE might have been the team giving Peja the huge new contract. He was a favorite for a very long time around here...

Just trying to keep it real.

......and we also are not paying a veteran who is down to one leg at this point 22 million dollars for next season. Can he still play...perhaps, but nowhere near 22 million dollars worth.

I really hate to bring this issue up again, but you almost have to when talking about the current situation. The situation has a lot to do with just plain bad luck.

 

[Heuge]

......and we also are not paying a veteran who is down to one leg at this point 22 million dollars for next season. Can he still play...perhaps, but nowhere near 22 million dollars worth.

I really hate to bring this issue up again, but you almost have to when talking about the current situation. The situation has a lot to do with just plain bad luck.

I'd much rather be finishing his deal then be stuck with the remainder of the Thomas deal.

 

[kupman]

I'd much rather be finishing his deal then be stuck with the remainder of the Thomas deal.

I can fully appreciate that opinion. I see it as 6 of one and a half a dozen of the other.

 

[dude12]

Ummm, Peja's contract wasn't bloated at all. He had been hard to find a trade match for earlier, because there weren't very many players that were as underpaid as him. Plus his contract was ending: we could have just waited until the end of the season and it would have been $0. At least we have a chip as opposed to nothing. Just letting guys go without getting anything back is not good policy.

Who do you think signed him to that contract?
Well, he was an all-star at one time, and as of last summer a member of the USA team....it's not like the guy was a bum...until recently

It's fine to thank him for Kevin, Justin and Francisco, just remember to give him credit for $50M worth of slow-moving vets with bad contracts, too.
I'm pretty sure if you go down all the rosters, there are going to be lots of bad contracts. Let's see what he does after this signing. It has to be a 2-parter or a means of pissing off KT and/or Miller.

...

 

[jtt]

Drives me nuts

knows talent. He pulled KMart out of the draft late. He got Cisco late in the draft. A solid pick. The jury is out on Douby, but I'm suspecting that he's going to be a solid NBA player. He got Justin Williams and Ronnie Price off the undrafted pool...those players usually don't get drafted for a reason.

Rebuilding teams takes time unless you have the number 1-3 picks in the draft and are able to get a Lebron, Wade, etc. Kings have been stuck towards the last third of the draft trying to mine nuggets. I think he's done well....and I think he got the best guy available at 10 with Hawes.

Not sure how much influence the Maloofa have had on any trades but the Artest for Peja deal didn't suck. Anybody want Peja and HIS bloated contract....good luck with that N.O. The Webber deal basically was a no win situation after he got hurt. I call that a push since I don't think the Maloofs would ever have bought out Webber like the 76ers did.

As for his FA signings, we are not going to get a Grant Hill type guy coming to us right now and signing for low money because he wants to win a championship. So we are stuck with getting guys like Salmons and Moore. I do think that the depth here would allow us to make a deal, which I'm sure hoping. If Moore plays like he did last year, with energy, then giddyup. I don't think I can stand to watch Brad Miller and his whiny act any more. Talk about stealing money. Miller may be the worst defensive center in the league right now and apparently doesn't care about getting in shape. I also would like to see KT and his selfish act just benched....or better yet, told to stay home the first time he pulls the "I play harder when I start" crap.

I don't think there is any doubt that Hawes, Williams, Moore end up getting more than their share of minutes. In Hawes and Williams case, plenty of time to develop.

But Petrie is good at what he does. I'm glad he's here.

I got a problem with any GM who has 3 sub 6'7" guys who absolutely cannot shoot from the outside (salmons, Corliss, KT) or fly to throw it down. It's very simple. That's plain ridiculous.

 

[ovrush]

I can fully appreciate that opinion. I see it as 6 of one and a half a dozen of the other.

How about 6 of one... 3 more years of Kenny Thomes of the other? I'm not getting into this again but I will say.... "more flexible pieces...BAH!"