It gets better with age. Usually:

I haven't really noticed a correlation between age and patience as far as attitude about The Kings rebuilding process goes. I'm not that familiar with this forum yet though. I'm 36 and in my case, age has nothing to do my stance. I'm just tired of seeing what seem to me like timid, frugal, and sometimes stupid moves on the part of Kings ownership/management. This goes back a lot further than this year. My current attitude has taken a long time to develop and is a culmination of things like foolishly firing Rick Addelman, foolishly trying to make Kevin Martin the franchise player. Not signing Bonzi, trading away our best players in Bibby and Artest and getting nothing in value in return, etc. etc. Then you add on top of all that, playing it safe in free agency and relying entirely on draft picks panning out and it's not too hard to understand why someone could easily be disgusted as a fan.

Not signing Bonzi? Sadly, the front office was so stupid, they actually tried to give Bonzi a bunch of money and he refused it and ended up the new Latrell Spreewell. They got fair market value for Bibby and they traded Artest for Casspi and Greene. That seems lopsided in our favor.

I guess I just totally don't get it. The FO has had their thumb up their rears for several years. Now FINALLY the team is more or less perfectly constructed for a rebuild and NOW it's time to complain? We have a franchise PG, a shot at a franchise C, and a handful of young talent about 2 deep at every position. We have the lowest salary in the league and a new CBA is coming up. Sounds perfect to me. We had no shot at Lebron. Who *did* you want to sign?
 
If Bonzi agreed to the contract Petrie offered, we would have been in a much deeper whole than we were. That was blind luck Bonzi turned tht deal down. I don't think he made more than $4M the rest of his career.

Yes in hindsight not signing Bonzi was a blessing in disguise. It was frustrating at the time though because at the time he could have made the team better. I mentioned it only as a means of showing how my current frustration has built up over time, not just stated suddenly.
 
Not signing Bonzi? Sadly, the front office was so stupid, they actually tried to give Bonzi a bunch of money and he refused it and ended up the new Latrell Spreewell. They got fair market value for Bibby and they traded Artest for Casspi and Greene. That seems lopsided in our favor.

I guess I just totally don't get it. The FO has had their thumb up their rears for several years. Now FINALLY the team is more or less perfectly constructed for a rebuild and NOW it's time to complain? We have a franchise PG, a shot at a franchise C, and a handful of young talent about 2 deep at every position. We have the lowest salary in the league and a new CBA is coming up. Sounds perfect to me. We had no shot at Lebron. Who *did* you want to sign?

Artest for Casspi and Greene was lopsided in The Kings favor? Sorry, but I just don't see that. I'm not that impressed at all with Greene and while Casspi shows promise, he hasn't shown anything to cause me to think he's going to turn out to be a better player than Ron. As for your question of who I'd have tried to sign, Stoudamire or Gay. Either would have improved the team a lot.
 
Artest for Casspi and Greene was lopsided in The Kings favor? Sorry, but I just don't see that. I'm not that impressed at all with Greene and while Casspi shows promise, he hasn't shown anything to cause me to think he's going to turn out to be a better player than Ron. As for your question of who I'd have tried to sign, Stoudamire or Gay. Either would have improved the team a lot.

Setting aside the issue of whether or not signing Gay or Amar'e would've been good for the Kings or not - you do realize that we couldn't have signed either of those guys, right? Amar'e would've never picked us over the Knicks in a million years (and they gave him a max contract. not like we could've offered him more money to come here), and Gay was given a max contract by Memphis, which by the current rules of the league we couldn't match even if we wanted to. Now, whether they tried to sign Amar'e or Gay, you don't know if they did or didn't, so how can you get upset over something that you don't even know if it happened or not?
 
Setting aside the issue of whether or not signing Gay or Amar'e would've been good for the Kings or not - you do realize that we couldn't have signed either of those guys, right? Amar'e would've never picked us over the Knicks in a million years (and they gave him a max contract. not like we could've offered him more money to come here), and Gay was given a max contract by Memphis, which by the current rules of the league we couldn't match even if we wanted to. Now, whether they tried to sign Amar'e or Gay, you don't know if they did or didn't, so how can you get upset over something that you don't even know if it happened or not?

Like I've stated before, it's not that they didn't sign anyone that bothers me. It's that they entered the FA market stating that they had no plans of making any big signing.
 
Artest for Casspi and Greene was lopsided in The Kings favor? Sorry, but I just don't see that. I'm not that impressed at all with Greene and while Casspi shows promise, he hasn't shown anything to cause me to think he's going to turn out to be a better player than Ron. As for your question of who I'd have tried to sign, Stoudamire or Gay. Either would have improved the team a lot.

Also, regarding Artest, he is certainly a much better player than Casspi today, but by the time the Kings are ready to contend he will be far too old and useless for this team. That's the whole idea of rebuilding - you get rid of players that can help you be mediocre now, and build on young pieces that can make you worse at the present, but have a chance of breaking the mediocrity border in the future and becoming great. Your approach might get the Kings to the playoffs in certain circumstances, but at best it will just make them an eternal first round exit team.
 
You honestly need a link to prove that they were taking a passive stance to FA? I recall it being made clear several times but I don't save or remember links for future access.

They wet after Lebron. Maloofs publicly stated that also. Didn't even get a sit down with Lebron.
 
You honestly need a link to prove that they were taking a passive stance to FA? I recall it being made clear several times but I don't save or remember links for future access.

Remember the "HELL NO" that fan got from Bosh when he asked him if he would come to Sac next season? What would it look like if GP started anouncing all over the media that he is going to go all out to get LeBron or whatever other free agents that were out there? I don't remember GP saying at any point that he wasn't going to pursue any free agents this summer, that's why I asked for a link, because you said that they "stated" that they weren't going to do anything.

I'll say it again - you don't know what went on behind the scenes. The only thing you can be dissapointed about with something to base your dissapointment on is the outcome. The outcome is that we didn't sign LeBron, Wade, Bosh, Amar'e, or even Rudy Gay. However, the fact is that even if GP went on every form of media and screamed that he was agressively pursuing all of these free agents, we wouldn't have been able to sign them. NO big name free agents were even remotely available to the Kings this offseason. Yes, it's not pleasant to know that we aren't an attractive destination to established superstars, but the other side of the picture is that we have good young pieces with a chance to become very good to great, and that we will have more capspace than almost any team when it's time to contend, at which point it will be easier for us to attract a big free agent, and the numbers will add up the right way, not the Hawks way.
 
What I find somewhat amusing is that its the younger posters for the most part that have the least patience. Whats strange about that is that they have the most time to be patient. And yet its I, who have the least amount of time that has the patience. Sort of ironic don't you think? Still, its always been that way. One of God's little jokes.

Those who have it don't want it. Those who want it can't have it.
 
Yes in hindsight not signing Bonzi was a blessing in disguise. It was frustrating at the time though because at the time he could have made the team better. I mentioned it only as a means of showing how my current frustration has built up over time, not just stated suddenly.

You do understand that the Kings made every effort to resign Bonzi and he ended up playing for less money than the Kings offered. Exact history is just that. You can't just revise it to fit your scenario. Yes the Kings made a lot of mistakes, and were not sure just who to point the finger at, but its been debated to death on this fourm for the last 5 or 6 years. The point is, that the Kings are doing it the right way now. How sucessful they'll be remains unknown, and thats the part that requires patience.

There are two ways to rebuild a team, well, maybe three. But essentially you have the Miami Heat way, and you have the Oklahoma Thunder way. The first is only possible if two things fall into place. First, you have to have the cap room to sign the players. And second, the players have to have the desire to sign with you. I don't think anyone believes the Kings could have attracted James, Wade, and Bosh to come here. Now its true you could just go for one big guy, but that only works if you have other pieces in place to compliment that player. Either way its a tricky deal with no guarantees on sucess. Its an either all in, or not in at all kind of deal. Its a commitment to big dollars. and if it doesn't work, your still stuck with the results for a long time. But its quicker than the other way.

The Thunder way is slower, and requires patience. It also requires having a good judge of talent on board. But there's less money up front required, and it also gives you short and long team flexability. If done right, you know what your getting before commiting to one of your original draft picks. There can be gliches, such as the one Portland ran into with Oden. He's on the last year of his contract and they still don't know what they have. But in general, its a safer way to rebuild a team and still have financial flexability. At the end of this coming season the Kings will have a better idea of what they have, and at the same time they'll be close to 30 mil under the cap.

Which brings us to the third way. And thats where the Kings will be at seasons end. Hopefully! They'll be able to get into the freeagent market to possibly put a final touch or two on what they have. So the third way is nothing more than an extension of the second way. If done right. By right, I mean bearing in mind that they'll have some decisions coming up on some of their players, so they'll need some money, or cap space if you will for future resignings.

I understand your frustration, but remember it could be worse. You could be a Cub's fan. I know you want a winner. So do I and so does every member of this fourm. Enthusiasim comes from emotion. So I know its hard to turn off that emotion when we lose, and become reasonable. For the most part, logic and emotion don't mix well, but there are times when logic has to rule and overcome emotion. Because emotional decisions are usually bad ones. Especially those that orginate from anger or disappointment.
 
You do understand that the Kings made every effort to resign Bonzi and he ended up playing for less money than the Kings offered. Exact history is just that. You can't just revise it to fit your scenario. Yes the Kings made a lot of mistakes, and were not sure just who to point the finger at, but its been debated to death on this fourm for the last 5 or 6 years. The point is, that the Kings are doing it the right way now. How sucessful they'll be remains unknown, and thats the part that requires patience.

There are two ways to rebuild a team, well, maybe three. But essentially you have the Miami Heat way, and you have the Oklahoma Thunder way. The first is only possible if two things fall into place. First, you have to have the cap room to sign the players. And second, the players have to have the desire to sign with you. I don't think anyone believes the Kings could have attracted James, Wade, and Bosh to come here. Now its true you could just go for one big guy, but that only works if you have other pieces in place to compliment that player. Either way its a tricky deal with no guarantees on sucess. Its an either all in, or not in at all kind of deal. Its a commitment to big dollars. and if it doesn't work, your still stuck with the results for a long time. But its quicker than the other way.

The Thunder way is slower, and requires patience. It also requires having a good judge of talent on board. But there's less money up front required, and it also gives you short and long team flexability. If done right, you know what your getting before commiting to one of your original draft picks. There can be gliches, such as the one Portland ran into with Oden. He's on the last year of his contract and they still don't know what they have. But in general, its a safer way to rebuild a team and still have financial flexability. At the end of this coming season the Kings will have a better idea of what they have, and at the same time they'll be close to 30 mil under the cap.

Which brings us to the third way. And thats where the Kings will be at seasons end. Hopefully! They'll be able to get into the freeagent market to possibly put a final touch or two on what they have. So the third way is nothing more than an extension of the second way. If done right. By right, I mean bearing in mind that they'll have some decisions coming up on some of their players, so they'll need some money, or cap space if you will for future resignings.

I understand your frustration, but remember it could be worse. You could be a Cub's fan. I know you want a winner. So do I and so does every member of this fourm. Enthusiasim comes from emotion. So I know its hard to turn off that emotion when we lose, and become reasonable. For the most part, logic and emotion don't mix well, but there are times when logic has to rule and overcome emotion. Because emotional decisions are usually bad ones. Especially those that orginate from anger or disappointment.

I'm not revising anything. If I recall, Artest even said something along the lines of “I’ll give up my next year’s salary to keep Bonzi Wells”. That he eventually got less than The Kings offered is irrelevant. Bonzi wanted more money than the Kings would give so he walked. Sure it backfired on him, but that's not the point.
 
I'm not revising anything. If I recall, Artest even said something along the lines of “I’ll give up my next year’s salary to keep Bonzi Wells”. That he eventually got less than The Kings offered is irrelevant. Bonzi wanted more money than the Kings would give so he walked. Sure it backfired on him, but that's not the point.

The point is you wish it had backfired on the Kings? Do you wish we offered even more money? Bid against ourselves until he DOES actually sign with us?
 
I'm not revising anything. If I recall, Artest even said something along the lines of “I’ll give up my next year’s salary to keep Bonzi Wells”. That he eventually got less than The Kings offered is irrelevant. Bonzi wanted more money than the Kings would give so he walked. Sure it backfired on him, but that's not the point.

This is my last word on this, because your starting to border on lunacy. If you make an offer to a player, and no one offers more than you do, you don't bid against yourself. As it turns out, the Kings made the right decision in walking away. Had they done what you had asked it would have been a disastor. As an aside, I'm more than willing to have intelligent conversations with anyone. This doesn't happen to be one, so I'm done with it. Your starting to resemble a troll, and thats enough for me.. Adios amigo...
 
Now, to follow the examples of the successful senior teams (Lakers, Celtics and Heat), all we have to do is:
1) Let our players develop and improve, and
2) Acquire star veterans in scandalously lopsided deals with smaller market teams

I will consider things to be underway when #2 is completed.
 
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Now, to follow the examples of the successful senior teams (Lakers, Celtics and Heat), all we have to do is:
1) Let our players develop and improve, and
2) Acquire star veterans in scandalously lopsided deals with smaller market teams

I will consider things to be underway when #2 is completed.

I propose Antoine Wright + future conditional 2nd round pick for Chris Paul.
 
This is my last word on this, because your starting to border on lunacy. If you make an offer to a player, and no one offers more than you do, you don't bid against yourself. As it turns out, the Kings made the right decision in walking away. Had they done what you had asked it would have been a disastor. As an aside, I'm more than willing to have intelligent conversations with anyone. This doesn't happen to be one, so I'm done with it. Your starting to resemble a troll, and thats enough for me.. Adios amigo...

Unless your definition of troll is, "one who expresses beliefs or opinions I do not agree with", I have trouble seeing how you'd reach that conclusion. "Intelligent conversation" to me just means that people are communicating in a civil manner and articulating their views, opinions, beliefs, etc. well. By that criteria, I'd say it was an intelligent conversation. If your criteria is more along the lines of "I think your opinions, beliefs, etc. are stupid, therefore the conversation is stupid" then I can see how we'd arrive at different conclusions.
 
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