IST Championship Open Thread

[mrlaze]

Some people just don't get excited for things they are told are exciting.

I was surprised to see the players elevate their play. That was really the only thing that made the games interesting. Unfortunatly they should have already been taking these in-division and in-conference games seriously.

 

[Padrino]

You lose your bracket by losing games that count too. I don't know, I don't think the IST is why they are losing now. One extra game. I happen to think Indy was playing above themselves and are regressing to their mean.

Yeah, I think it's much more likely that Indy and their league-worst defense are just dropping the games you expect an insanely terrible defensive team to lose as the season wears on. As for the Lakers, their problems remain the same on the other side of the IST: their offense is sluggish and they can't shoot. LeBron is putting on a masterclass in longevity this season, and AD is having one of those stretches where NBA journos start trotting out the "Is Anthony Davis an MVP candidate?" stories again. But they probably need to make a move before the trade deadline to infuse their offense with some shooting. It's just so hard to win consistently in the modern NBA when you're bottom-five in made three's per game, and it's taking a Herculean effort from both LeBron and AD just to keep the Lakers above the play-in bracket.

 

[Warhawk]

As for the Lakers, their problems remain the same on the other side of the IST: their offense is sluggish and they can't shoot. LeBron is putting on a masterclass in longevity this season, and AD is having one of those stretches where NBA journos start trotting out the "Is Anthony Davis an MVP candidate?" stories again. But they probably need to make a move before the trade deadline to infuse their offense with some shooting.

Don't worry, someone will trade them a good player for pocket lint, a paper clip, and a partially-used Tic-tac. Happens every year.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I was surprised to see the players elevate their play. That was really the only thing that made the games interesting. Unfortunatly they should have already been taking these in-division and in-conference games seriously.

Frankly, I'm surprised by your surprise. Give players something to win, and they're going to try to win it. Even in the All-Star Game that fans love to complain about, they're trying to win it in the end.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Yeah, I think it's much more likely that Indy and their league-worst defense are just dropping the games you expect an insanely terrible defensive team to lose as the season wears on. As for the Lakers, their problems remain the same on the other side of the IST: their offense is sluggish and they can't shoot. LeBron is putting on a masterclass in longevity this season, and AD is having one of those stretches where NBA journos start trotting out the "Is Anthony Davis an MVP candidate?" stories again. But they probably need to make a move before the trade deadline to infuse their offense with some shooting. It's just so hard to win consistently in the modern NBA when you're bottom-five in made three's per game, and it's taking a Herculean effort from both LeBron and AD just to keep the Lakers above the play-in bracket.

I was certainly in the camp that thought 500k wouldn't motivate a lot of the NBA's upper class but it for sure motivated LeBron, he said as much multiple times. And I also think he really wanted to be the first to win this new trophy/cup/whatever for his GOAT resume. Most of the other teams that seemed to be really hungry for it (Fox, Hali among the stars that said it was a huge deal) are young and something to prove.

There's several things possible with Indy beyond their horrid defense: 1) is Hali was playing beyond the beyond. We all love/hate to see it but I think even his biggest fans don't think he can average 40 a night. 2) Indy's early season record was loaded with crappy teams. They do have wins over Boston and Milwaukee but as we've seen with the Kings, who are absolutely a good team, we have some matchup struggles and have lost consistently to teams we are objectively better than.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I think part of it is also psychological. When you invest so much energy, focus and emotion in winning that tournament, it feels like you hit an emotional “climax or ending”.

It may be more difficult for these team to rebound and come back out and play regular season games. They may need more time to reboot and refocus for the regular season after reaching such a pinnacle.

That would make sense for Indy. For the Lakers they are still a banged up two star team with LeBron doing magical things and largely dependent on AD being able to deliver on any night. I think in their case it is more an indication that they are a threat in the playoffs if healthy. But 7 game series can quickly change that.

 

[ockingsfan]

This feels like a way to reverse-engineer justification for why you, personally, didn't care for the IST.

TBH, I enjoyed watching the IST, but still feel that besides bragging rights for a couple of days, the tournament does not have any real meaning unless there is some type of playoff bump attached to winning it.

Sure $500k is nice money for some of the lower level guys, but until the NBA attaches some type of competitive reward to leaving it all out on the floor for this “NBA IST trophy”, I’d be fine if the Kings just played hard and didn’t expend extra energy and focus on trying to win it all.

After all, just getting in to the knock out round guarantees you are playing a much more formidable opponent (Pelicans and Suns) and not teams like the Grizzlies or Spurs.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I am in favor of it guaranteeing a playoff spot but clearly that isn't necessary right now. Can it survive as just a fun way to get folks motivated early in the season? I don't know. It does already feel like an afterthought now.

I also like my idea (lol, obviously because its my idea) of using it as a way to field 6 of 8 spots for the dunk and 3pt contests and giving those contests the same 500k prize.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

TBH, I enjoyed watching the IST, but still feel that besides bragging rights for a couple of days, the tournament does not have any real meaning unless there is some type of playoff bump attached to winning it.

I feel like if we had won the IST we'd be bragging about it until the playoffs began.

 

[ockingsfan]

I feel like if we had won the IST we'd be bragging about it until the playoffs began.

Sure, as long as we didn't come out of winning the IST and then proceeded to lose 3 out of the next 4 games

 

[ockingsfan]

I am in favor of it guaranteeing a playoff spot but clearly that isn't necessary right now. Can it survive as just a fun way to get folks motivated early in the season? I don't know. It does already feel like an afterthought now.

I also like my idea (lol, obviously because its my idea) of using it as a way to field 6 of 8 spots for the dunk and 3pt contests and giving those contests the same 500k prize.

Yeah, I was thinking something along the lines of making the IST Championship team's Finals game win count in the playoff standings.

That way, the winner is not guaranteed a playoff spot (which can allow that them to coast the rest of the season), but gives the winner the tie breaker in any tie record situation at the end of the season, (i.e. record of 52-30, would become 53-30 for playoff seeding).

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Yeah, I was thinking something along the lines of making the IST Championship team's Finals game win count in the playoff standings.

That way, the winner is not guaranteed a playoff spot (which can allow that them to coast the rest of the season), but gives the winner the tie breaker in any tie record situation at the end of the season, (i.e. record of 52-30, would become 53-30 for playoff seeding).

My main thought was guaranteeing a play in spot for a lottery team or a playoff spot for a team 10th or higher.
But for teams in the playoffs it could maybe bump them up one seed through the conference finals.

I don't think any of those solutions do anything that completely negates the regular season but it is a huge bonus for the first or second round.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

As it stands right now LA and Indy are both 8 seeds and I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that both of those teams are play-in teams at the end of the season.

So imagine all the extra meaning that a guaranteed playoff spot would do. If it left the 8/9/10 seed out with the current play-in format, that really isn't ending the world. I know the soccer analogies are a bit tired, but often times it is those fringe teams that go all in for the domestic cup since it enters them into their continental leagues. If the IST ultimately falls into some happy spot where it is between laughable (Pre-Season Cup) and the real deal (Larry O'B), and it is the 7-10 seeds that go all in, that ain't so bad. It almost becomes like a "we got next" trophy, unless it is dominated by tail end guys like LeBron.

 

[ESP47]

I thought it was a success overall. Guess my only two gripes were the courts were absolutely horrendous looking and to a much lesser extent, the goggles and champagne was a bit over the top for the situation.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I thought it was a success overall. Guess my only two gripes were the courts were absolutely horrendous looking and to a much lesser extent, the goggles and champagne was a bit over the top for the situation.

I don't care about the locker room celebration, but I did think Silver's award ceremony was anti-climactic. Especially with the kids there but then how he callously got rid of them. He just is a very awkward man and that doesn't help.

But I am 100% in agreement on the courts. I absolutely don't mind having special courts for the tournament, but please ditch the center strip and the high contrast graphics. And stick to pastels. Please.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

But I am 100% in agreement on the courts. I absolutely don't mind having special courts for the tournament, but please ditch the center strip and the high contrast graphics. And stick to pastels. Please.

The center strip doesn't bother me, but the color layouts were not well thought through. The gray and pastels tended to be OK, the saturated colors (especially red) were just garish and straight up hurt the eyes. There's lots that can be done to make the court look special and unique, but it should actually be done with forethought, which this obviously wasn't. Also, please, don't try to emulate something like the floor at UOregon - visually busy floors are not good either.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

The center strip doesn't bother me, but the color layouts were not well thought through. The gray and pastels tended to be OK, the saturated colors (especially red) were just garish and straight up hurt the eyes. There's lots that can be done to make the court look special and unique, but it should actually be done with forethought, which this obviously wasn't. Also, please, don't try to emulate something like the floor at UOregon - visually busy floors are not good either.

good god that is the worst court in the world. don't ever mention it I will never have to see it when this Pac season ends

I guess the strip would be less bad if the contrast wasn't so bad. And yes. Red. Don't do it.

 

[Padrino]

The center strip doesn't bother me, but the color layouts were not well thought through. The gray and pastels tended to be OK, the saturated colors (especially red) were just garish and straight up hurt the eyes. There's lots that can be done to make the court look special and unique, but it should actually be done with forethought, which this obviously wasn't. Also, please, don't try to emulate something like the floor at UOregon - visually busy floors are not good either.

It was a problem for me that the point of the garish floors was to announce the IST so loudly, because the NBA clearly feared that the average viewer wouldn't be able to distinguish early regular season action from tournament play. I'm hoping that the league scales back the blaring colors and overdesigned aesthetic as the IST becomes more widely understood and accepted.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

It was a problem for me that the point of the garish floors was to announce the IST so loudly, because the NBA clearly feared that the average viewer wouldn't be able to distinguish early regular season action from tournament play. I'm hoping that the league scales back the blaring colors and overdesigned aesthetic as the IST becomes more widely understood and accepted.

Yes! The Tuesdays/Fridays in November = IST Round Robin Games was a bit of clever scheduling, but it definitely didn't help in setting the IST apart from the regular season.

A different idea:
It should be possible to schedule the Round Robin games (4 games per team) over an 8-day stretch prior to Thanksgiving, and then give every team Thanksgiving off as usual. Then schedule the IST Quarters/Semis/Consolations like this year's, but moved to December so that the IST Finals lands on Christmas Day. Yes, some teams will be mad about losing a "guaranteed" Christmas Day game, but if you want it, you have to earn it!

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

A different idea:
It should be possible to schedule the Round Robin games (4 games per team) over an 8-day stretch prior to Thanksgiving, and then give every team Thanksgiving off as usual. Then schedule the IST Quarters/Semis/Consolations like this year's, but moved to December so that the IST Finals lands on Christmas Day. Yes, some teams will be mad about losing a "guaranteed" Christmas Day game, but if you want it, you have to earn it!

And then what, only have one game on Christmas Day? Forget about the teams, ABC/ESPN will never go for that.

 

[burekijogurt]

No thanks. I'm not a big proponent of the, "If a little is good, more must be better!" way of thinking. Besides, adding another round would basically be recreating the NBA playoffs as March Madness and I, for one, don't want that.

Your other suggestions seem to carry the tinge of, "Well, I don't care about the IST, but I do care about the playoffs, so make the IST count for the playoffs, and then I'll care about it." I say let the IST be its own thing; it shouldn't have s**t to do with the standings or the playoffs.

I don't tend to apply generic "ways of thinking" to specific instances. I think more single elimination games would be better, but I don't think so for the number of visits to the dentist let say. You handcuff yourself too much if you decide to be a fan or not a fan of a "way of thinking" and then apply that rule as opposed to looking at each situation on its own merits. Just a different approach to things.

But yes, more elimination games would make the Cup more like, well, a Cup, which distinguishes it from the playoffs.

As far as the suggestions that you think are connected to the playoffs, there is only one that can be interpreted that way, and that is the one about the elimination games counting more in the standings. I agree with you that the Cup should be its own thing. It just might need some incentivizing at the beginning to reach that stage. This is one way, but there are many others.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I've seen no evidence that the Cup needs any "incentivizing." All indications are that the players have already bought in, so the fans just need to catch up.

 

[mrlaze]

Theres no reason for us to do that.

 

[The_Jamal]

I've seen no evidence that the Cup needs any "incentivizing." All indications are that the players have already bought in, so the fans just need to catch up.

Yeah. The point of the tournament is for a better regular season viewing experience. I think the tourney succeeded in that goal 100%. Sure, there's no bigger macro prize for winning, but anyone who says those games weren't far better than a normal regular season game is just being dishonest.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Theres no reason for us to do that.

There's no reason for us not to do that. The players care, and that's good enough for me. Your mileage obviously varies.

 

[ockingsfan]

The curse of the IST champion game continues…. Both participants in that game, the Lakers and Pacers are now 2-6 since that Chamionsip game.

One would figure that doing that well in the tournament would spring board a team to bigger and better things, but it has been the exact opposite for both teams