Isn't Landry another K9?

[Double-K]

Offensively, I see a comparison to more of this dude than anything. I mean the 1998 version of Reef with some more strength. Landry has some real quick feet that Reef possessed.

Can you find a weirder picture of SAR than this?

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Early Abdur-Rahim was a small forward. Small forward Abdur-Rahim was a 20 and 8 guy. I do not Carl Landry as a 20 and 8 guy.

 

[Tetsujin]

Early Abdur-Rahim was a small forward. Small forward Abdur-Rahim was a 20 and 8 guy. I do not Carl Landry as a 20 and 8 guy.

yet that is what he is dangerously close to being.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

Early Abdur-Rahim was a small forward. Small forward Abdur-Rahim was a 20 and 8 guy. I do not Carl Landry as a 20 and 8 guy.

True, but SAR was the offensive focal point, whereas Landry has been a key cog on a good team. Make Landry the star of a 20 win team and he would have a good shot at those numbers.

I actually think their skill sets are similar, but Landry is much tougher. Reef was always soft, although arguably a more potent scorer.

 

[stevetaebo]

Can you find a weirder picture of SAR than this?

Like a leaked Greg Oden style cell phone pic?

 

[gunks]

Like a leaked Greg Oden style cell phone pic?

*Slowly backs away and out of thread*

 

[Bricklayer]

True, but SAR was the offensive focal point, whereas Landry has been a key cog on a good team. Make Landry the star of a 20 win team and he would have a good shot at those numbers.

I actually think their skill sets are similar, but Landry is much tougher. Reef was always soft, although arguably a more potent scorer.

I don't think that is even arguable -- SAR offensively >>> Landry offensively. Offensively he was a star.

Landry...it will be interesting to see here, because either Landry was being held back in Houston, or Landry is going to give us a classic example of "good player on a bad team" syndrome. An efficient 16 and 7 bencher on a good/average squad who's forced to play goto guy on abad squad, and ups his numbers a bit at the cost of alarge falloff in efficiency.

 

[Henkel]

I think a lot of people underestimate just how good Houston is at the pg spot, and how much Landry benefited from it. Only a handful of teams get better play at the pg position. The combination of Brooks and Lowry is the main reason for Houston's successful and they are making some of those players look better then they are.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

I don't think that is even arguable -- SAR offensively >>> Landry offensively. Offensively he was a star.

Landry...it will be interesting to see here, because either Landry was being held back in Houston, or Landry is going to give us a classic example of "good player on a bad team" syndrome. An efficient 16 and 7 bencher on a good/average squad who's forced to play goto guy on abad squad, and ups his numbers a bit at the cost of alarge falloff in efficiency.

I agree with the first part of this. I almost typed a "much" in front of the word better and in retrospect I should have.

In terms of Landry dropping in efficiency here, I'm not sure that comes into play. His role in our O will be very similar to Houston. Reke is still our go to guy, Landry becomes our primary front court scorer, much like he was in Houston. And actually our offensive efficiency is very close to theirs (102.9 for us v 103.6 for them), where their team is light years ahead of ours is defensive efficiency (107.5 for us v 104 for them). We could see some drop off by him, just adjusting to playing for a new team in a new O, but it's not like we are dropping him onto the Kings from the last two seasons and asking him to carry the load.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

I think a lot of people underestimate just how good Houston is at the pg spot, and how much Landry benefited from it. Only a handful of teams get better play at the pg position. The combination of Brooks and Lowry makes that team successful and they are making some of those players look better then they are.

I'm not so sure about that. Brooks is more of a score first PG. And while Reke is too, they have about the same passing statistics, even looking at the advanced statistics. The assist ratio for Brooks is 19.65 v 19.44 for Evans. Reke actually has a better A/t, averages more assists and has a better Assist+ (counts more for 3s assisted) than Brooks. And that's with Landry finishing for Brooks, which he did at a high ratio than Thompson and Hawes have done for Evans on inside dishes.

Even if outside of the statistics, you believe that Brooks is more advanced at setting up his inside players, I'm just not sure how much of a discernible difference it would make in Landry's stats, especially if it is not showing up in either normal or advanced statistics.

If your seeing something I am not though, I am interested in hearing it. I have certainly been wrong before.

 

[Henkel]

I'm not so sure about that. Brooks is more of a score first PG. And while Reke is too, they have about the same passing statistics, even looking at the advanced statistics. The assist ratio for Brooks is 19.65 v 19.44 for Evans. Reke actually has a better A/t, averages more assists and has a better Assist+ (counts more for 3s assisted) than Brooks. And that's with Landry finishing for Brooks, which he did at a high ratio than Thompson and Hawes have done for Evans on inside dishes.

Even if outside of the statistics, you believe that Brooks is more advanced at setting up his inside players, I'm just not sure how much of a discernible difference it would make in Landry's stats, especially if it is not showing up in either normal or advanced statistics.

If your seeing something I am not though, I am interested in hearing it. I have certainly been wrong before.

Those numbers are interesting and you use them to make a interesting argument. I can only go by what I have seen from the 10 or so times I have caught Houston this year.

First of all you have to take Lowry into account here. Really underrated point and Landry played big minutes with him.

Both Lowry and Brooks push the ball well and Landry was the main beneficiary of this. Reke can do this to, but he is more likely then either of those guys to finish the break himself. This isn't a big deal in the larger sense but this will hurt Landry's numbers.

Despite some people claiming Landry is a great post up player, this isn't really the main way he was used in Houston. Landry knows how to play the pick and roll, pick and pop, and cuts well off the ball for a big man. Brooks and Lowry know how to find their big men off of screens better then Evans does.

Evans has his strengths as a passer but so far he hasn't looked all the comfortable setting up his bigs in pick and roll situations. You did make a great point though. He hasn't had a lot to work with Thompson and Hawes. Both guys can hit the jumper when the defender follows Evans off of a pick, but they are both inconsistent. Its only been two games and maybe Evans will make better use of Landry once they get comfortable together, its just that Evans hasn't shown me that he knows how to use his bigs all that well in the half court. Brooks and Lowry on the other hand can.

I'm not saying Evans and Landry can't work together as well as Landry and Brooks/Lowry. I can tell you without any doubt in my mind that right now Landry gets better shots off of Houston's pg's. Not really surprising either. Houston has a couple of talent points and they have played with Landry for a lot longer. Evans and Landry on court relationship is developing, who knows where it will end up. Just expect to see Landry's numbers suffer a bit until we figure out how utilize what he brings to the table.

Its late so I hope that made some kind of sense.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

Those numbers are interesting and you use them to make a interesting argument. I can only go by what I have seen from the 10 or so times I have caught Houston this year.

First of all you have to take Lowry into account here. Really underrated point and Landry played big minutes with him.

Both Lowry and Brooks push the ball well and Landry was the main beneficiary of this. Reke can do this to, but he is more likely then either of those guys to finish the break himself. This isn't a big deal in the larger sense but this will hurt Landry's numbers.

Despite some people claiming Landry is a great post up player, this isn't really the main way he was used in Houston. Landry knows how to play the pick and roll, pick and pop, and cuts well off the ball for a big man. Brooks and Lowry know how to find their big men off of screens better then Evans does.

Evans has his strengths as a passer but so far he hasn't looked all the comfortable setting up his bigs in pick and roll situations. You did make a great point though. He hasn't had a lot to work with Thompson and Hawes. Both guys can hit the jumper when the defender follows Evans off of a pick, but they are both inconsistent. Its only been two games and maybe Evans will make better use of Landry once they get comfortable together, its just that Evans hasn't shown me that he knows how to use his bigs all that well in the half court. Brooks and Lowry on the other hand can.

I'm not saying Evans and Landry can't work together as well as Landry and Brooks/Lowry. I can tell you without any doubt in my mind that right now Landry gets better shots off of Houston's pg's. Not really surprising either. Houston has a couple of talent points and they have played with Landry for a lot longer. Evans and Landry on court relationship is developing, who knows where it will end up. Just expect to see Landry's numbers suffer a bit until we figure out how utilize what he brings to the table.

Its late so I hope that made some kind of sense.

Interesting observations. I haven't gotten to see a whole lot of Rockets games this year, so what you say may have merit. Even with baseball advanced stats you need traditional scouting to complement them, and basketball's advanced stats are not nearly as sophisticated yet and may never be due to the complexity of the game compared to the more 1 on 1 (batter v pitcher) interactions of baseball.

And you are right about Lowry (compared to Beno), but I mostly just looked at Brooks v Reke because it was late and they both play 35-37 of the 48 minutes.