Isaiah Thomas watch

[dude12]

IF the Suns increase their win total, I'll be surprised. I think IT will contribute to the same problems that were here that may pop up there which is that at some point, the selfish guy starts rubbing off onto the other guys who start thinking I'm going to get mine. Their only hope is Hornacek squashing that type of play.

Meanwhile, Cuz and to a point Gay are helping the offense move the ball here in Sac with the new guys. That type of ball movement is contagious and effective.

 

[Padrino]

IF the Suns increase their win total, I'll be surprised. I think IT will contribute to the same problems that were here that may pop up there which is that at some point, the selfish guy starts rubbing off onto the other guys who start thinking I'm going to get mine. Their only hope is Hornacek squashing that type of play.

the major difference is that phoenix has more than enough PG depth to reign in some of those problems. i have no idea how a rotation of dragic/bledsoe/thomas will work in the practical sense, but the suns certainly won't have to lean as heavily on thomas' scoring ability as the kings did. they'll likely use IT in a flexible sixth man capacity, a role many would have preferred to see thomas remain in during his final season with the kings. unfortunately, coach malone was forced to play isaiah thomas an excessive amount of minutes last season due to an utter dearth of anything resembling legitimate nba-caliber guards elsewhere on his roster, a situation that only exacerbated IT's bad habits, particularly given that he was in the middle of a contract year...

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

The bias against IT? How about the realistic view of a player who was coddled by way too many too often on other boards and by the broadcast team?

No, it most certainly was a particular animus against IT. This is the only Kings board across the web that has it. Kind of tells you something.

 

[Tetsujin]

No, it most certainly was a particular animus against IT. This is the only Kings board across the web that has it. Kind of tells you something.

Not really. You'll find just as many people speaking against IT on other Kings discussions forums like StR, the main difference there being that the SBNation format can generally (fairly or unfairly) drown out one side or the other based on the opinion of editorial staff and with that said, even they have been getting some flack recently for being a little too IT oriented. Here, where we largely have no editorial staff, things don't tend to go down such a track. (Not necessarily saying one way is better than the other, just saying that they're different).

There are a couple of dudes on some of the other Kings discussion venues who aren't exactly pro-Demarcus. Does that mean that those places are "anti-Demarcus", it just means that some of the people who post there are. Same deal here.

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

Not really. You'll find just as many people speaking against IT on other Kings discussions forums like StR, the main difference there being that the SBNation format can generally (fairly or unfairly) drown out one side or the other based on the opinion of editorial staff and with that said, even they have been getting some flack recently for being a little too IT oriented. Here, where we largely have no editorial staff, things don't tend to go down such a track. (Not necessarily saying one way is better than the other, just saying that they're different).

There are a couple of dudes on some of the other Kings discussion venues who aren't exactly pro-Demarcus. Does that mean that those places are "anti-Demarcus", it just means that some of the people who post there are. Same deal here.

Criticisms of IT are common around the web. However, the character assassination attempts from quote snippets and perceived interactions on the court leading to outrageous baseless speculation are unique to this forum. Thats not critique. Thats animus.

You can't blame that on web format.

 

[Tetsujin]

Criticisms of IT are common around the web. However, the character assassination attempts from quote snippets and perceived interactions on the court leading to outrageous baseless speculation are unique to this forum. Thats not critique. Thats animus.

You can't blame that on web format.

That's not exactly unique to IT though. See Demarcus shouting at Nik after Nik missed a screen last night and the subsequent dribble of posts regarding that.

And if you think that Twitter-gate speculation is "character assassination," you obviously have forgotten the utter insanity that was Tyreke-speeding-gate, Demarcus-getting-benched-by-Westphal-gate, Omri-gates 1, 2, and 3, and, of course, Tyreke v. Rubio and the lost summer of 2009. The point being that certain factions of guys will always find something to get riled up about because it's the internet and everyone wants to pretend they have big ones that would make Ron Jeremy proud.

And no I can't "blame" that on web format but it can be "blamed" (however much that one or two paragraphs about how someone's happy that a player isn't on the team anymore can be something worthy of blame) on the opinions of a handful of fans that feel comfortable posting here without fear of starting a "flamewar" or drawing the ire of keyboard warriors who take offense to any opinion that isn't their own. Just as how posts declaring IT the greatest player who ever lived shouldn't be policed or attacked (he isn't the greatest ever, by the way), posts declaring IT worse than dirt (no matter how wrong they may be) shouldn't be attacked either.

This is a discussion forums, not a unanimous opinion forum. Sometimes someone will say something that you may or may not agree with. Such is the nature of discussion. When I write my crappy write-up on my game threads, I go in fully expecting someone to critique me for either (a) being a crappy writer (which I admittedly am), (b) saying something they don't agree with, (c) not being Piksi, or (d) all of the above and anything else. It's the internet. People don't exactly hold back with their ire or opinions the way they would face to face. Such is the nature of the modern world. I don't want to be one of those "put up or shut up" people but if the "IT-hate" is getting to be too much for you, there are, as you pointed out earlier, several other places to discuss the Kings that may be more closely associated with your own particular slant.

 

[Glenn]

Criticisms of IT are common around the web. However, the character assassination attempts from quote snippets and perceived interactions on the court leading to outrageous baseless speculation are unique to this forum. Thats not critique. Thats animus.

You can't blame that on web format.

Sometimes all you can see is what you are looking for.

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

That's not exactly unique to IT though. See Demarcus shouting at Nik after Nik missed a screen last night and the subsequent dribble of posts regarding that.

And if you think that Twitter-gate speculation is "character assassination," you obviously have forgotten the utter insanity that was Tyreke-speeding-gate, Demarcus-getting-benched-by-Westphal-gate, Omri-gates 1, 2, and 3, and, of course, Tyreke v. Rubio and the lost summer of 2009. The point being that certain factions of guys will always find something to get riled up about because it's the internet and everyone wants to pretend they have big ones that would make Ron Jeremy proud.

And no I can't "blame" that on web format but it can be "blamed" (however much that one or two paragraphs about how someone's happy that a player isn't on the team anymore can be something worthy of blame) on the opinions of a handful of fans that feel comfortable posting here without fear of starting a "flamewar" or drawing the ire of keyboard warriors who take offense to any opinion that isn't their own. Just as how posts declaring IT the greatest player who ever lived shouldn't be policed or attacked (he isn't the greatest ever, by the way), posts declaring IT worse than dirt (no matter how wrong they may be) shouldn't be attacked either.

This is a discussion forums, not a unanimous opinion forum. Sometimes someone will say something that you may or may not agree with. Such is the nature of discussion. When I write my crappy write-up on my game threads, I go in fully expecting someone to critique me for either (a) being a crappy writer (which I admittedly am), (b) saying something they don't agree with, (c) not being Piksi, or (d) all of the above and anything else. It's the internet. People don't exactly hold back with their ire or opinions the way they would face to face. Such is the nature of the modern world. I don't want to be one of those "put up or shut up" people but if the "IT-hate" is getting to be too much for you, there are, as you pointed out earlier, several other places to discuss the Kings that may be more closely associated with your own particular slant.

You're still confused about the difference between critique and animus.



Critique = Isaiah takes a lot of shots, he is squeezing out the rest of the roster. I support replacing him with players who shoot less so that there is more shots to go around.



Note: I disagree with the above opinion. But I wouldn't hold it against someone for believing that.



Animus = Isaiah is selfish, only cares about himself, is a locker room cancer, nobody likes him on the team! How do we know? Look at this tweet! Look at the way Rudy just looked at him! Look at this quote! Burn the witch!



I've been on this board for a long time. I don't think I've seen anything quite like what happened with Isaiah last year. There was a lot of stupid hand-wringing over Tyreke's speeding ticket, but that was a public embarrassment. DeMarcus' episodes are well-documented, but also very public. I was here when we were defending Artest's psychotic episodes, his dog-feeding scandal, etc. You can't possibly equate people overreacting to those visceral situations to the nitpicking that was so prevalent all of last year. Something that is rather unique to this board. And I don't buy the argument that format somehow is more conducive to bringing it out. I think it comes out here because for some reason its more acceptable here, and would otherwise be called out elsewhere.



People will have their favorite players and their not-so-favorite players. That’s fine. That shouldn't preclude calling a situation for what it is.

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

Sometimes all you can see is what you are looking for.

Same can be said for all you don't want to see.

 

[Tetsujin]

You're still confused about the difference between critique and animus.



Critique = Isaiah takes a lot of shots, he is squeezing out the rest of the roster. I support replacing him with players who shoot less so that there is more shots to go around.



Note: I disagree with the above opinion. But I wouldn't hold it against someone for believing that.



Animus = Isaiah is selfish, only cares about himself, is a locker room cancer, nobody likes him on the team! How do we know? Look at this tweet! Look at the way Rudy just looked at him! Look at this quote! Burn the witch!



I've been on this board for a long time. I don't think I've seen anything quite like what happened with Isaiah last year. There was a lot of stupid hand-wringing over Tyreke's speeding ticket, but that was a public embarrassment. DeMarcus' episodes are well-documented, but also very public. I was here when we were defending Artest's psychotic episodes, his dog-feeding scandal, etc. You can't possibly equate people overreacting to those visceral situations to the nitpicking that was so prevalent all of last year. Something that is rather unique to this board. And I don't buy the argument that format somehow is more conducive to bringing it out. I think it comes out here because for some reason its more acceptable here, and would otherwise be called out elsewhere.



People will have their favorite players and their not-so-favorite players. That’s fine. That shouldn't preclude calling a situation for what it is.

案dテャt輪s園散れlyめぽいんt.

 

[Padrino]

I've been on this board for a long time. I don't think I've seen anything quite like what happened with Isaiah last year. There was a lot of stupid hand-wringing over Tyreke's speeding ticket, but that was a public embarrassment. DeMarcus' episodes are well-documented, but also very public. I was here when we were defending Artest's psychotic episodes, his dog-feeding scandal, etc. You can't possibly equate people overreacting to those visceral situations to the nitpicking that was so prevalent all of last year. Something that is rather unique to this board. And I don't buy the argument that format somehow is more conducive to bringing it out. I think it comes out here because for some reason its more acceptable here, and would otherwise be called out elsewhere.

even if we split enough hairs to come to the conclusion that kf.com has some sort of "animus" towards isaiah thomas that is grossly out of proportion with the perception of isaiah thomas everywhere else, does it really matter? does it mean anything now that he's no longer a sacramento king? and does the team's decision to cut ties with thomas inform the "nitpicking" to any degree, or at least cast it in a different light?

personally, i find it very easy to equate "people overreacting to those visceral situations to the nitpicking that was so prevalent all of last year." demarcus cousins' flaws are certainly very real, but they've been overstated to no less a degree than thomas' flaws. does replacing thomas' name in the following series of proclamations ring any less true to some of the long-held perceptions of demarcus? "[Demarcus] is selfish, only cares about himself, is a locker room cancer, nobody likes him on the team! How do we know? Look at this tweet! Look at the way [Tyreke] just looked at him! Look at this quote! Burn the witch!"

this same level of "animus" occurred all over kf.com during cousins' first few years with the kings. i'd hazard to guess that the vitriol for cousins on this website at that time was much stronger than it ever was for isaiah (kings fans are historically derogatory towards players with deficiencies of attitude). the major difference between the two situations is that most of the posters who were hellbent on spitting venom in the direction of demarcus cousins at every turn have since disappeared from kf.com in the wake of cousins' growth towards respectability and stardom, while isaiah's biggest critics remain...

now, if you want to address the weird obsessions that result from contact with players through social media, then you'll find no disagreement from me. however, i'd simply offer that the social media age has dramatically altered the way fans interact with the game. the rise of the nba's social media presence has coincided with the rise of absurd over-analysis of player tweets and the like. if you spend enough time on twitter during any sporting event, you will find vitriolic commentary and heavy-handed scrutiny no less ridiculous than what you've found here at kf.com. do i think it's a silly practice, and more than a tad childish? yes, absolutely. i see little value in scrutinizing a player's every utterance via social media, but it's hardly a unique phenomenon, even with respect to the once and former pizza guy...

 

[rainmaker]

the major difference is that phoenix has more than enough PG depth to reign in some of those problems. i have no idea how a rotation of dragic/bledsoe/thomas will work in the practical sense, but the suns certainly won't have to lean as heavily on thomas' scoring ability as the kings did. they'll likely use IT in a flexible sixth man capacity, a role many would have preferred to see thomas remain in during his final season with the kings. unfortunately, coach malone was forced to play isaiah thomas an excessive amount of minutes last season due to an utter dearth of anything resembling legitimate nba-caliber guards elsewhere on his roster, a situation that only exacerbated IT's bad habits, particularly given that he was in the middle of a contract year...

Pho also brought over Zoran Dragic. They've got four options at PG on any given night. Will be interesting to see how IT reacts as unless injuries mount up, Horny won't be forced to play him big mins.

 

[VF21]

No, it most certainly was a particular animus against IT. This is the only Kings board across the web that has it. Kind of tells you something.

No, apparently it tells you something. And that's fine. I simply choose not to buy into the assumption that since KF was the only Kings board not drinking the IT kool-aid that we were the ones in error. If you choose to believe that, I can live with it.

Time may tell with IT. As far as I'm concerned, other than being a topic to periodically chime in on during TDOS, he's no longer of any real concern to me. It is, as always, more about the name on the front...and his jersey now says PHOENIX.

#SacramentoProud

 

[funkykingston]

The beginning of last season showed both what the Kings coaching staff (and possibly the FO as well) wanted from their starting PG as well as what they saw as the ideal role for IT.

Greivis Vasquez started because he was a pass first guard that would keep the offense moving. And IT came off the bench as a scorer. Early on there were even whispers league wide that Thomas was a legit sixth man candidate due to his scoring.

And what's interesting is that in November when he was exclusively coming off the bench (and for one game in October) IT had a HIGHER scoring average per 36, less assists per 36 and a higher usage percentage (28.1%) than in any of the subsequent months where he was primarily the starter. I think it's clear that he excelled as a scoring guard either as a starter or a bench player. The issue was that (1) Malone seemingly didn't want a scoring PG as his starter and (2) the Kings failed to acquire anybody more talented to justify pushing IT to the bench.

Had the longshot Rondo trade rumors ever come to fruition then I think Thomas would have been an ideal backup as a change of pace, scoring guard. I thought maybe if the Kings drafted Marcus Smart and he really came on fast that he could push IT to the bench while also being big enough to play alongside him in the backcourt at times. But the best the Kings could muster last season was Vasquez (who they stuck with despite IT obviously outplaying him most nights), Jimmer and a rookie 2nd rounder in Ray.

I don't quite get some of the more over the top negativity directed at IT either. Because to me it was just about IT not fitting the direction the coach/FO wanted for a starting PG but not having anybody good enough to push him towards the role they wanted him in as a super sub.

Personally I'll wish Thomas the best and thank him for his time with the Kings.

 

[VF21]

...I don't quite get some of the more over the top negativity directed at IT either. Because to me it was just about IT not fitting the direction the coach/FO wanted for a starting PG but not having anybody good enough to push him towards the role they wanted him in as a super sub.

Personally I'll wish Thomas the best and thank him for his time with the Kings.

Some of the "over the top negativity" came as a result of some of the more active animosity towards anyone who didn't blindly follow the lead of Jerry & Grant in their embarrassing anointment of IT as the best thing since sliced bread. I personally got more than a little tired of being labeled a "hat8r" simply because I did not and do not think IT was/is a starting caliber player in the NBA. Over time, it became very irritating to see thread after thread dissolve into the same tired rhetoric.

Isaiah Thomas could have been the next Bobby Jackson with the Kings if he had learned a valuable lesson or two. He didn't and it's probably why he's in Phoenix today. I have always wished him well but I'll be damned if I'm going to act like he was some kind of victim because he didn't fit "the direction the coach/FO wanted..." He COULD have fit if he truly wanted to.do so.

 

[kupman]

Over time, it became very irritating to see thread after thread dissolve into the same tired rhetoric.

Like this one?

Please get here 10-29 and end this damn DOS.

 

[206Fan]

Not really. You'll find just as many people speaking against IT on other Kings discussions forums like StR, the main difference there being that the SBNation format can generally (fairly or unfairly) drown out one side or the other based on the opinion of editorial staff and with that said, even they have been getting some flack recently for being a little too IT oriented. Here, where we largely have no editorial staff, things don't tend to go down such a track. (Not necessarily saying one way is better than the other, just saying that they're different).

There are a couple of dudes on some of the other Kings discussion venues who aren't exactly pro-Demarcus. Does that mean that those places are "anti-Demarcus", it just means that some of the people who post there are. Same deal here.

What I've realized on STR, is that mods and favorites rule the comment section. If a well respected member says something, it'll automatically get 5 recs or likes without it being relevant to anything. That is one reason why I've slowly gone away from STR. I've provided valid arguments on why our offense will be much better with Collison and Sessions, but most of them tend to shoot me down and keep bringing the "almost .500" argument.

Note: I disagree with the above opinion. But I wouldn't hold it against someone for believing that.



Animus = Isaiah is selfish, only cares about himself, is a locker room cancer, nobody likes him on the team! How do we know? Look at this tweet! Look at the way Rudy just looked at him! Look at this quote! Burn the witch!


People will have their favorite players and their not-so-favorite players. That’s fine. That shouldn't preclude calling a situation for what it is.

I honestly agree with this. However, a lot of the ones who don't really care about it don't often comment because it's not much of a use. There are just some people out there who really do not like IT and that's fine. I like IT and when I see threads like that or comments, I choose not to say anything because the statement was probably ridiculous in the first place..

 

[Letsgokings13]

Why do some care what goes on at STR? Just curious

 

[206Fan]

Some of the "over the top negativity" came as a result of some of the more active animosity towards anyone who didn't blindly follow the lead of Jerry & Grant in their embarrassing anointment of IT as the best thing since sliced bread. I personally got more than a little tired of being labeled a "hat8r" simply because I did not and do not think IT was/is a starting caliber player in the NBA. Over time, it became very irritating to see thread after thread dissolve into the same tired rhetoric.

Isaiah Thomas could have been the next Bobby Jackson with the Kings if he had learned a valuable lesson or two. He didn't and it's probably why he's in Phoenix today. I have always wished him well but I'll be damned if I'm going to act like he was some kind of victim because he didn't fit "the direction the coach/FO wanted..." He COULD have fit if he truly wanted to.do so.

I agree a lot with this. I think Jerry and Grant used IT as hope for fans. We've had little to none success in a long time and Isaiah was the spark that probably kept some fans from not turning off the TV or even stop watching. The major problem with the Kings have everything to do with previous ownerships and little to do with IT.

Our roster sucked and IT was practically forced into the starting lineup. I think IT just felt like there was no other PG better than him on the Kings..which was true. Our team just sucked bad for the longest...and this year we're trying to build a REAL basketball team. I think IT and the FO don't mix because we see him as a 6th man off the bench, but he feels like someone like Collison isn't better than him. He's probably ok with coming off the bench at Phoenix because he's playing behind guys who are better than him.

IT will fit perfectly in Phoenix because he can give them scoring and a deeper bench. He doesn't fit as a starting PG on our team because we don't need his scoring in the starting lineup. IT would probably only want to stay here if we guaranteed him as the starter.. that was never going to happen...which is why he's not here today. IT is a great offensive player with big heart, but I think a lot of fans have to just get over it.. best wishes to him in Phoenix.

 

[rainmaker]

Why do some care what goes on at STR? Just curious

I happen to think STR is quite an embarrassment as a representation of anything Kings. Poor analysis, poor commentary, poor dialogue. I will say some of the gif threads after a game can by funny though.

 

[Tetsujin]

案dテャt輪s園散れlyめぽいんt.

Oh jeez, I was tired last night.

 

[Glenn]

Oh jeez, I was tired last night.

I tried to translate it and came up with a mess.

 

[Tetsujin]

I tried to translate it and came up with a mess.

I left the Japanese function on on my keyboard and just typed in what I thought was English. Apparently didn't even bother to check.

 

[c-webb1s#1]

 

[Glenn]

I left the Japanese function on on my keyboard and just typed in what I thought was English. Apparently didn't even bother to check.

I didn't think you could write in hirigana, katakana, or whatever it is so I was checking your capability. Kinda funny but then I'm easily amused.

 

[206Fan]

On a preseason note, Jeremy Lamb has looked BAD. 1-14 right now with 8-8FT shoting. He's also looked pretty bad in SL too. For being a supposedly "one of the best NBA ready players" in 2012, he looks to be a bust. I'm glad we have Ben.. there's potential in him and I think we will be working on it with him.

 

[Tetsujin]

The only Suns guard looking particularly good today is Bledsoe, who is in ridiculous shape. IT's actually looked better on defense tonight fighting through screens. Feel as though Dragic has actually looked the worst of the three PGs today. But it's really hard to tell when they're playing Flamengo and not another NBA team.

Also, I can't stand the Suns play-by-play guy's voice, never have been able to. I'm just glad Eddie Johnson isn't on color

 

[Albatros]

 

[KingMilz]

IT in vintage form first game of pre season

 

[dude12]

Very talented at getting his own shot, typical IT. Compare this short vid with how we moved the ball on Tuesday night. This vid was 1/3 of our offense last year. I'm shocked that Cuz didn't enjoy watching IT do this night after night.....