gil renard
Bench
Chriss won Rookie of the Month and followed that up with 27 points. I hope that BB is legit or this will be another blunder by Vlade.
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upinsmoke
All-Star
We'll find out. This is why we follow the team. IF we make the playoffs Vlade comes out smelling rosey.
John Galt
Starter
Indeed, those without possible agendas...like Vivek?
There is noone. And there should be noone. I'm praying that all those dissenting voices have been silenced and squashed once for all. The open dissension and confusion and anonymous whispers and leaks was the surest sign of the dumpster fire.
And BTW, fans be blind sometimes with their own biases: the "culture change" which is the real focus of everyone below Vivek (who like most owners just wants to win) is well WELL underway now. It's probably why Joerger has a smile on his face so much. These guys compete every night against any team. And that was what Joerger's focus was this year. Teaching a franchise how to reflexively compete. Wins are the result of such a culture, not the cause of it.
I don't know why I find myself in such a minority when I watch this team play (I go to most home games - watch them all) and mostly think "it's coming along nicely". I really really like Joerger a lot. I see DeMarcus maturing very fast - much less psychotic on the court and much less often. And I see the Kings are IN almost every game against every caliber of opponent. Just saw a stat last night that the Kings have had more games within 6 points than any other team in the NBA. And that's with the toughest part of the schedule behind us.
And when I ask myself whether it could have happened just the same with Landy & Stauskas, I just gotta be perfectly fine with the Philly trade even though I will go underground for two weeks if we do, indeed, swap out of a top 3 pick.
I have zero desire to tank - I do not want to finish bottom 10. Re-signed Cuz and the youth in the org now I think can make things fun and interesting for years to come if we stay the course.
You're not in the minority IMHO. I think a lot of folks feel the same way but have given up posting it because the more vocal negative contingency swarms on them like locusts every time they do.
If you've watched the Kings as long as a lot of us have, you cannot help but admire the change in attitude, chemistry, effort, etc. we're starting to see on a regular basis. It's still a work in progress but at least the dumpster fire has been put out.
Not in the minority....you get it.
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KingsFan80
Guest
it was so obvious. Any good or even average GM would have taken Chriss. Which we don't have...
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Chriss has hardly blown the league away you know. Saying he won Rookie of the Month this year is a bit like noting Ben won ROM in his rookie season (which he did). In a draft so weak, Ben was the least smelly turd in the pasture for a month. Chriss was similar. If I could get somebody in the West to give me a 10 day I'd have a 50/50 chance of winning ROM, simply because I know how to tie my shoes and can walk and chew gum.
Chriss won ROM while averaging 8.3pts 3.6reb a game. He's a real athlete, but frankly if you watch him play you can see why Vlade did NOT draft him. He might make it or might not. There are flashes. But he's shown nothing so far to make you think a package of Papa, Skal and Bogdan might not turn out to be more valuable.
P.S. Actually we got a 2020 2nd out of that deal as well. Its rarely mentioned, but we're talking a 4 player for 1 swap.
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KingsFan80
Guest
And what exactly has Papa, Skal and Bogdan shown to make you think they are a better deal. let me ask you this, as of right now, if you had to pick one or the other, which would you take? and Based on what? And when you point these numbers, please keep in mind we are talking about a 19 year old who starts in the NBA right now. What do you expect from him? Sorry but a guy playing real NBA minutes means more to me than the D-League. The D-League is a joke, have you seen the rosters of the teams they play?
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IMO it was not a mistake. It as a choice from which we wound up with two better PGs and two better SGs. We didn't have to do that but it was a legimate choice. Since it was a legimate choice it was not a mistake. If Curry winds a
HOFer it's still not a mistake.
To pshn80 KingsFan80's question is silly, Vlade's choice at the time and this time (which is unimportant) to be the wiser choice and that is what we have. Please move on to the present and future of our team. As hard as I search for it, Vlade is not the problem.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
If I had to pick one or the other, as in our 3/4 guys vs. what I've seen of Chriss? I take our guys. I'm not sold on Chriss at all. And I've been tracking him for no more noble reason than that I took him for a couple of my fantasy teams. Skal has more skills. Bogdan may turn out to be a real pro. I'm obviously not banking on Papa at all, but he looks to have shown real progress himself, and you can't teach size. I doubt they all will be better than Chriss, but could one or even more of them? At this point easily, let alone collectively. In no way has Chriss shown he's going to be a surefire star at this point. He's very young, so there is time, but there are a whole range of possibilities for him before you reach star. He could be Darrel Arthur. He could be Hakim Warrick.
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itzcoatl
Bench
Weren't you the one saying it was "so obvious"? The burden of proof is on the one making the point. In the last ten games, Chriss is averaging 3.4 rebounds in 20 minutes.
We just watched Chriss against us. Hell of an athlete. Has a long ways to go, a long ways. I'd go so far as to speculate that if you replaced Chriss with Skal in the Suns rotation and gave Skal the same PT that its more than likely he gets the same numbers. Just speculation but that's what I see......one guy is getting minutes because they are in rebuild mode, one guy is getting D-League because Sac is going after the 8th spot.
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KingsFan80
Guest
To me, yes it is very obvious, but apparently people on this board either really believe the other three are better or are so blinded by their love for Vlade they think everything he does is awesome. So I posed the question, if they believe that, then why?
twslam07
All-Star
And we could say that you're blinded by your love for Chriss. See how that works?
The logical stance would be a wait and see stance. It's too early to judge this trade, and trading a first round pick for 3 first round talents does not or should not make anyone grab their pitch forks. In a vacuum, that's a perfectly reasonable haul, so there's no need to be so belligerent when you really don't have ANY IDEA if the trade will end up being good down the road.
If you think starting a rookie because the team is in rebuild mode is some sort of barometer for how good that rookie is, then I don't think myself or frankly most of this board is going to find common ground with you. It's definitely one of the weakest arguments I've heard on this site. Team X's goal is to rebuild, so let's start the rookie. Team Y's goal is to compete for a playoff spot, so let's play the veterans that are better today and develop the rookies behind the scene. Therefore, Team X's rookie must be better than Team Y's rookie. No, it doesn't work like that. Again, it's one of the weakest arguments I've heard on this site.
But here I am again. Getting lured into this person's one message agenda: Draft sucked/Vlade sucks/Chriss is awesome, and I don't necessarily agree that Vlade has done a good job, that we should have taken Papagiannis, etc. but beating the same drum in the majority of your posts makes you seem like you have an agenda especially when you beat your drum so loudly and prematurely. Do you have anything else to contribute to this board?
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KingsFan80
Guest
Other people brought this up, not me, I just commented on it. So please read before posting. If you don't like what I have to say then ignore me or don't respond because from reading other posters on here it looks like more people agree with me than you.
twslam07
All-Star
You're missing the point. It's not about who brings it up. It's about the majority of your posts having one message with little thought to surround it.
More people agree with you? You don't say? Can you go ahead and prove that please? Or are you just making an assumption to try and make your argument look better?
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KingsFan80
Guest
I honestly don't care if you like my posts or not, so why would I care if my argument looked better?
twslam07
All-Star
Why would you bring up that more people agree with you then? Does that not come across as a "I'm right because others agree with me!" post?
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KingsFan80
Guest
It means there are people on this Board who like my posts. You might not and some others, but if you don't like them then like i said don't respond or read them. You can utilize the ignore button.
I am a Kings Fan just like you and tired of the bone headed decisions. We could easily be a good team right now, with good decisions the past three drafts, during free agency and having a GM who can get trades done. I am not settling for garbage. If you like that, then go for it.
twslam07
All-Star
I don't think anyone wants to settle for garbage, but I think others can see that it's not all doom and gloom (yet) as you often like to portray.
You doubled down early that Vlade made mistakes in the draft, so it's only natural to be against or be hesitant to give kudos to the progression of those said players. Same with Bogdanovic. You have a hard time fathoming that he will come over next year. Why? I think it's because you chose your side and you'd like to be right more than you'd like the Kings to be good. You might say otherwise, but your actions speak louder than your words ever could. Same could be said for Chriss. Your obsession to over-hype a struggling rookie is puzzling to say the least, and I too think this leads back to your strong statements about how Vlade messed up the draft. You took your stance and now you're doing everything you can to defend it. Rather than a lot of us who were not quick to judge the outcome of such a trade that involves teenagers.
The fact of the matter is I made a post challenging you on many of your ideas/comments, and instead of trying to come up with a thoughtful response, you told me to ignore you. Why is this the natural reaction? Why shut down and fold up like a lawn chair when you get challenged? When the going gets tough, the tough get going...
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KingsFan80
Guest
Ok I'll play then:
You all say Chriss is overrated, sucks etc. He is 19 years old and scored 27 points last game. 19! I have two friends who have gone to Reno to watch Papa. PAPA IS TERRIBLE! They sat in floor seats and came back saying OMG what did we draft! He IS NOT going to be good.
We are comparing Chriss to Skal, Bodgan, and Papa.
Chriss - Last game vs. the Bucks - 27 points and 6 RB. He was going up against Jabari Parker and John Henson.
Papa - Last game vs. Salt Lake City Cruises - 22 points and 5 RB
Salt Lake City Cruises Roster. Have you ever heard of any of these people? Outside of Diamond Stone? Sundiata Gaines played for Georgia Bulldogs like ten years ago and was average then. Scoring 22 points against semi-professional scrubs means nothing. Why not play him in a real game if he is that "good"?
Jermaine
Taylor
24
JJ
O'Brien
22
Joel
Bolomboy
21
Sundiata
Gaines
15
Marcus
Paige
4
Diamond
Stone
34
Jaylen
Bland
2
Skal was terrible at UK. Ask a UK fan what they think about Skal. The response is "he was the worst Calipari recruit ever". I have no idea why you all believe he is going to be good. He is soft and far from ever being decent. I can go grab his stats too, which I assume are horrible, but is it worth the time?
What other stats/facts do you want to see? Sorry, but I cannot understand how you can sit back and watch a 19 year old score 27 points in an NBA game then think he sucks but we are better off with a slow, scrub center, an overrated PF and a SG from overseas that nobody knows anything about or if/when he will even come over.
Chriss and the Suns managed to beat the Kings at home. How could a 19 yo skinny rookie like Chriss stand up to Cousins? It makes no sense but he did. I watched him play at UW. He came out too early, but seems to be making it work.
The Kings management lacks one crucial ingredient above all others- PATIENCE.
The Kings management lacks one crucial ingredient above all others- PATIENCE.
twslam07
All-Star
So you're going to reference one game as your evidence? Not an entire body of work or even an extended stretch of games, but one game? Ben McLemore scored 31 points in his rookie year. Should we crown him king as well?
Do your friends have a background in scouting? Forgive me for not trusting your friend's assessment.
And I'm not saying to play Papa!!!! Where are you getting that? I'm not saying he's good enough to play right now, but just because you get NBA minutes, it doesn't mean you are ready to contribute to a team. That's what you can't comprehend. It's so simple to follow. It's confusing why you still can't admit to it.
Chriss very well be better than Papa right now, but that's not the point. The point is who will they become. Papa could very well become the better NBA player down the road. The fact that you are basing their future on what they are doing as a rookie is not only wrong but borderline reckless. Thank goodness GMs don't have that mindset.
Skal was terrible at UK, and one of the reasons he was terrible was that Calipari was misusing him. Skal has show many skills since being drafted that make him look promising, and I don't see him as being soft. He doesn't shy away from contact and attacks the glass hard. He might not be strong enough to handle a lot of that contact right now, but that's not the definition of soft. Soft is a mentality. Strength is tangible. And strength is a lot easier to improve.
The reason why I haven't been impressed with Chriss is because he hasn't performed well. It doesn't mean he has no potential. It just means he's still got a lot of growing to do. He very well might be the next Ibaka, or he could be the next Thomas Robinson. He hasn't shown enough at this point to make anyone think he's going to reach his ceiling. Out of 94 PFs that qualify, Chriss is ranked 89th in RPM. Not to mention the team is 7.6 points better with him off the floor.
Again, that's not saying Papa or Labisisere would do better at this point in time, but being so gosh darn one sided and so high on a player who is arguably one of the worst PFs in the game right now and more than likely the worst starter in the league right now is nothing short of bizarre. Let it play out. Let's see how these guys develop and progress. From there, we'll see where the chips fall.
And what makes you think we don't know anything about Bogdanovic? Just because you might not know who he is or what he can bring, it doesn't mean that other people who get paid to do this for a living don't.
Chriss: 16 minutes, 2 points, 1-6 shooting, 0-3 3pt shooting, 0-0 FTs, 2 rebounds, 0 assists, 0 steals, 1 block
Cousins: 34 minutes, 22 points, 6-16 shooting, 3-7 3pt shooting, 7-9 FTs, 12 rebounds, 12 assists, 1 steal, 2 blocks
How did Chriss stand up to Cousins? He didn't. At all. Let's come back to the world of reality, people.
twslam07
All-Star
The way I see it is that Chriss could have been the Kings PF of the future. Having said that we already had Cauley-Stein on the roster who projected out as a good compliment to Cousins and looked promising in his rookie season. In the trade, we got Papagiannis, Labissiere, & Bogdanovic. I'm pretty confident in saying that Labissiere has a higher ceiling than Chriss due to his raw skills, feel for the game, & length. So not only did we potentially pick up a PF who has a higher ceiling than Chriss, but we also got a young C who could be a long term Koufos replacement who is bigger, longer, & has a better post game & jump shot. Then on top of that we got Bogdanovic who has a per36 average in the Euro League of: 60% TS% / 44% FG% / 38% 3PT% / 86% FT% / 15.4 PPG / 3.8 RPG / 6.2 APG / 0.6 SPG / 0.2 BPG. That looks like a promising player to me.
Phoenix may very well look back on this draft and regret it, but we could be doing the same thing. It's just too early to call it right now. Everything about this conversation is premature, and it's hardly a slam dunk from either slide right now.
Phoenix may very well look back on this draft and regret it, but we could be doing the same thing. It's just too early to call it right now. Everything about this conversation is premature, and it's hardly a slam dunk from either slide right now.
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KingsFan80
Guest
How would Papa stand up to Cousins right now? Since he and Chriss are the same age and only taken about five picks apart.
He would get 4 points on 2-6 shooting with 3 rebounds and 2 blocks in less than 16 minutes.
Prove that is not the case.
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KingsFan80
Guest
I highly doubt Papa would score and he would get literally abused on defense. Papa should have been taken late 2nd round. Garbage pick. I find it funny, that according to some on this Board, every other team's draft picks and FA signings have flaws, but our players are the greatest ever. We couldn't trade Papa right now if we had to, because no other team would give you anything for him
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twslam07
All-Star
Nope, our draft picks definitely have flaws. Papagiannis is raw & slow, Cauley-Stein's offensive game is raw, Labissiere is weak, & Malachi can take bad shots at times. But you know what? Other team's draft picks have flaws too! See how that works?
Proof please?
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