Is Vlade clueless?(split)

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KingsFan80

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#31
#31
Joshoua said:
So

1. Vlade is getting Boogie to resign for 5 years.

2. Got us a top coach

3. With no future picks got us Richardson, Popa, Skal, and Bogdan.


Ya he's terrible
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Boogie is getting insane money to resign, I will give him credit on Joerger, great hire. The Draft ugh please don't talk about it. Have you seen the two rookie centers for the Knicks and Lakers? 2nd rounders already producing like they are potential contributors in the NBA? While our player is bragging about putting up 10 points and 10 rebounds against crappy former college players
 
K

KingsFan80

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#32
#32
allrightythen said:
There was some talk that Vlade wasn't sure he wanted the job, don't know how true that was. I think it's pretty clear that he was hired for ability to bring people together. It's taken time but there is now a solid executive team running the Kings. If Vivek is still meddling that team doesn't really matter and I think we're all hoping that he is learning to let his executives execute.
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From what I understand, drafting WCS and the past draft debacle was 100% Vlade idea with Vivek's stamp of approval, so yes on both of them
 
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E

ESP47

All-Star
#34
#34
KingsFan80 said:
Boogie is getting insane money to resign, I will give him credit on Joerger, great hire. The Draft ugh please don't talk about it. Have you seen the two rookie centers for the Knicks and Lakers? 2nd rounders already producing like they are potential contributors in the NBA? While our player is bragging about putting up 10 points and 10 rebounds against crappy former college players
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Not that I agree with the Papa pick but I'd rather have our rookie C be the raw prospect than the rookie SG since the C isn't going to get much run anyway with Cousins and Kofous on the team.

The position we needed to fill badly was SG and we may just have a pretty solid guy there.

Keeping Cousins and getting a good coach that preaches defense were the top 2 priorities. Those are locked down.

Now we have to see how these picks play out. There are zero players from this draft averaging 10ppg as of right now. There's only a few even up there at 8-9ppg and most of them have abysmal shooting percentages. The players that a lot of guys wanted like Baldwin and Luwawu are playing like garbage. Almost none of these guys are contributing so it's not like we have a clue how this draft is going to shake out. I'm not saying that none of these guys are going to pan out but as of right now you can only count a couple guys from this draft class who are currently helping their teams.
 
K

KingsFan80

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#35
#35
allrightythen said:
Calling a draft a debacle half way through their rookie year is jumping the gun. Malachi Richardson looks better than Peja did at the same point post draft.
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We could have still taken Malachi at 23 with the trade. That wasn't the debacle I was referencing.
 
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K

KingsFan80

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#37
#37
allrightythen said:
My point on Malachi wasn't about his particular selection or position, it was simply that we don't know what we have yet. Any assumption on what we got from the trade or the draft in general is jumping the gun.
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Watching this lineup would sure help with some of the FO negativity right now. At least it would be fun watching them play and grow:

PG - Collison, Lawson
SG - Devin Booker, Malachi, Temple
SF - Gay (Until he got hurt), Casspi
PF - Chriss, Tolliver
C - Cousins, Kosta
 
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G

glassman

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#38
#38
I'm sure it's been said already. I'm just gonna get my two cents.



The author of that article strongly believes that bringing in Ken as assistant GM was a great move and vlade shouldn't feel bad about not knowing all the little details in the beginning. He believes vlade can ...and is showing signs of being good. The author also believes the Kings should probably continue to make some additions to the FO

THE MARCO TRADE WAS FANTASTIC BTW... when u think of the 76'er trade think we GOT a 1st round pick (Richardson) for losing our pick.

ALSO... all the FA signings were brilliant as well... extremely savvy $$$... short.... tradable deals in an environment where people were throwing silly money around... how many of those teams are having buyers remorse?

We walked away with Temple signed for 3 years at a total steal financially say if he were to hit the market after this season.

In order to fairly judge Vlade u should start last offseason. After he hired Ken and Joerger (who yes I do believe is learning as well and hopefully will be better next year)
 
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allrightythen

allrightythen

Starter
#39
#39
KingsFan80 said:
Watching this lineup would sure help with some of the FO negativity right now. At least it would be fun watching them play and grow:

PG - Collison, Lawson
SG - Devin Booker, Malachi, Temple
SF - Gay (Until he got hurt), Casspi
PF - Chriss, Tolliver
C - Cousins, Kosta
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We could talk hypothetical and possibilities forever, especially in hindsight. The point remains that we don't know what we have yet. The draft may in fact be a debacle, my only point is that we don't know yet and I don't see any reason to be overly negative when the result is still very much in question.

A few years from now I will be happy to look back and compare Booker and Chriss to Bogdanovic, WCS, Skal and Papagiannis, right now I don't really know what they will amount to.
 
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macadocious

macadocious

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#40
#40
It doesn't have to be so divisive. Vlade can be both very uninformed and green, made bad decisions, yet learning, growing and making better decisions.

My takeaway from this article and the Lowe/Arnovitz podcast is that we need more depth in the front office and better defined structure. I don't think that was a surprise. The perfect piece would be to add Hinkie below Vlade and above Cantanella. I don't see a remote chance of that happening, but I think it would be the best of all worlds.
 
K

KingsFan80

Guest
#41
#41
macadocious said:
It doesn't have to be so divisive. Vlade can be both very uninformed and green, made bad decisions, yet learning, growing and making better decisions.

My takeaway from this article and the Lowe/Arnovitz podcast is that we need more depth in the front office and better defined structure. I don't think that was a surprise. The perfect piece would be to add Hinkie below Vlade and above Cantanella. I don't see a remote chance of that happening, but I think it would be the best of all worlds.
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That is a great idea. The only part I would change is move Vlade to a newly created position like VP for Community Engagement then make Hinkie the GM.
 
Glenn

Glenn

Hall of Famer
#43
#43
allrightythen said:
There was some talk that Vlade wasn't sure he wanted the job, don't know how true that was. I think it's pretty clear that he was hired for ability to bring people together. It's taken time but there is now a solid executive team running the Kings. If Vivek is still meddling that team doesn't really matter and I think we're all hoping that he is learning to let his executives execute.
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I think this is true. I hope Vivek isn't standing in the way but I'm inclined to say "of course he is." "Other teams" or whoever they were said that talking to the Kings was very difficult. Maybe Vlade is difficult but I find that hard to believe. If he requires the OK of Vivek every time he chose a TP color, it could seem very awkward. Let Vlade do his thing, right or wrong. He'll learn.
 
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Glenn

Glenn

Hall of Famer
#44
#44
Sac.1989 said:
Have you seen our track record as a franchise ??

Have you seen the FA's that steer clear of us or use us to get offers from others ??

The cash hardly talks when you are the sacramento kings
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This is true yet in Boogie's case, he has always said he would stay here. If the team was a loser, he took it on his shoulders. That's an unusual position in modern sports but very common when I was growing up. He has hung in there with a sucky team and local media asking for his head. I don't credit that to Vlade although obviously Vlade should be a major plus as far as Boogie goes.

I don't known the structure of the front office but my once mighty brain is bored by analytics and all the shuffling of picks, salary cap, and the like. These are necessary skills for a front office; that I understand. I was surprised to learn that our FO was difficult (uncertain) to deal with. Is that day 1 of Vlade's tenure or at the year and a half point? I think most of us knew he would be clumsy including himself. Vlade is a smart guy. He'll learn.

Do I have to read that article to have my questions answered? ;)
 
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K

KingsFan80

Guest
#45
#45
Glenn said:
This is true yet in Boogie's case, he has always said he would stay here. If the team was a loser, he took it on his shoulders. That's an unusual position in modern sports but very common when I was growing up. He has hung in there with a sucky team and local media asking for his head. I don't credit that to Vlade although obviously Vlade should be a major plus as far as Boogie goes.

I don't known the structure of the front office but my once mighty brain is bored by analytics and all the shuffling of picks, salary cap, and the like. These are necessary skills for a front office; that I understand. I was surprised to learn that our FO was difficult (uncertain) to deal with. Is that day 1 of Vlade's tenure or at the year and a half point? I think most of us knew he would be clumsy including himself. Vlade is a smart guy. He'll learn.

Do I have to read that article to have my questions answered? ;)
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So how long do we give him to "learn" on the job? This is an NBA team not commissioner of a little league team.
 
P

pshn80

Starter
#46
#46
Clueless? Some don't like deals he's made or deals he hasn't made? Vlade is the best thing that has happened to the Kings in a long time. I like the team he has put together and I am happy with the trades or picks he hasn't made. Remember one of the toughest chores a GM has here is waiting for our star to come into his own. Cuz is doing that but it has been slow and bumpy. Thank heavens the great insight and character Vlade brings to this tough job. And our team might be maturing and improving. If you have to have a championship right now go root for a different team (and, of course, you and I can't do that). And if you don't think I am right than just go ask VF21.
 
P

peacelate

Bench
#47
#47
Sac.1989 said:
Have you seen our track record as a franchise ??

Have you seen the FA's that steer clear of us or use us to get offers from others ??

The cash hardly talks when you are the sacramento kings
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When the Kings are offering cash roughly equivalent to other teams, most times they will choose the other team. The Kings are offering Cousins $70 million more than any other team. You'd be hard-pressed to find anybody who believes that difference in money makes a trifle difference.
 
Sac.1989

Sac.1989

Starter
#48
#48
peacelate said:
When the Kings are offering cash roughly equivalent to other teams, most times they will choose the other team. The Kings are offering Cousins $70 million more than any other team. You'd be hard-pressed to find anybody who believes that difference in money makes a trifle difference.
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the modern athlete would have mentally checked out, bolted for the fences much much earlier then where we are now.

the new CBA lets us do more and give more yes, but we shouldn't even be at this point. Any other modern day player would be long gone, if here, simply counting down the days till Free Agency to cash that 130 million and move the hell away from us.

70 million is peanuts when your playing with a) a talentless roster with a myriad of holes which was boogies first 5 seasons with us (and what some would argue is still the case) and b) the most dysfunctional franchise in the league - stemming from the top

He'd make up that 70 million easy from signing for a bigger market or a more successful franchise because on the balance of everything his positive re-imaging in the league would transcend him winning games at a higher clip which he very well may not be able to do here.

But business aside he is ours and thats my point. The money is really a side note when you have been through what Demarcus has here.
 
P

peacelate

Bench
#49
#49
I can't envision any athlete thinking $70 million is peanuts. Simply moving to a bigger market isn't going to easily make up the difference. He doesn't have the star appeal as Lebron, Harden or Durant.
 
K

KingsFan80

Guest
#50
#50
pshn80 said:
Clueless? Some don't like deals he's made or deals he hasn't made? Vlade is the best thing that has happened to the Kings in a long time. I like the team he has put together and I am happy with the trades or picks he hasn't made. Remember one of the toughest chores a GM has here is waiting for our star to come into his own. Cuz is doing that but it has been slow and bumpy. Thank heavens the great insight and character Vlade brings to this tough job. And our team might be maturing and improving. If you have to have a championship right now go root for a different team (and, of course, you and I can't do that). And if you don't think I am right than just go ask VF21.
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I stopped reading there..the best thing to happen to the Kings is DeMarcus Cousins. Everything else right now is ugh.
 
ParniValjak

ParniValjak

All-Star
#51
#51
allrightythen said:
There was some talk that Vlade wasn't sure he wanted the job, don't know how true that was. I think it's pretty clear that he was hired for ability to bring people together. It's taken time but there is now a solid executive team running the Kings. If Vivek is still meddling that team doesn't really matter and I think we're all hoping that he is learning to let his executives execute.
Click to expand...
I think this is fair! No doubt Vlade does have his shortcomings specifically around the CBA and all the rules and regulations. That might have shown up in the Philadelphia trade but there is no evidence that it is completely true.

However, starting with this season for the first time Vlade has a solid team around him. By all reports Catanella is a knowledgeable guy when it comes to inner workings of the league in general and the CBA.

Vlade's best attribute is his ability to unite and he also happens to know a thing or two about basketball. If it is true that Vivek only trusts Matina then I am holding hope that if anyone can stop Vivek from being an idiot might be in fact be Vlade himself.

Matina really likes and trusts Vlade. Vivek trusts Matina. Coaching staff and players trust Vlade. Just like in his playing days, Vlade is the glue that can bring it all together.

It's nice to see that with the new arena the team is raking in the money. What I would like to see the team do is go out and head hunt the best scouts and development team in the NBA to make Sacramento the best drafting and developing franchise in the league. That will help bring in the sustainable success that Spurs have and make us the model franchise.

I think we have invested a bit in this area in the offseason but I feel that we are still a long way away from being the best. Once you have that structure in place with the best team in place then you are ready to bang with the big boys.
 
ParniValjak

ParniValjak

All-Star
#52
#52
peacelate said:
I can't envision any athlete thinking $70 million is peanuts. Simply moving to a bigger market isn't going to easily make up the difference. He doesn't have the star appeal as Lebron, Harden or Durant.
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The only reason he doesn't have the star appeal of those you mentioned is because he is playing for a small market franchise that is the laughing stock of the NBA.

He most certainly would have that appeal if he was the face of Miami, Lakers, Celtics etc. Perception is half the battle and no one gives a flying **** about the lowly, small market Sacramento Kings.
 
Dreadnought

Dreadnought

Bench
#53
#53
Joshoua said:
So

1. Vlade is getting Boogie to resign for 5 years.

2. Got us a top coach

3. With no future picks got us Richardson, Popa, Skal, and Bogdan.


Ya he's terrible
Click to expand...
I'll give you #2, I love Jaeger. Assuming #1, without pen to paper, is just setting yourself up for disappointment. #3 doesn't look as great when we owe an unprotected 2019 1st round pick.
 
D

DC222

Guest
#55
#55
KingsFan80 said:
Watching this lineup would sure help with some of the FO negativity right now. At least it would be fun watching them play and grow:

PG - Collison, Lawson
SG - Devin Booker, Malachi, Temple
SF - Gay (Until he got hurt), Casspi
PF - Chriss, Tolliver
C - Cousins, Kosta
Click to expand...
And who are we gonna give up exactly to get that?
 
D

DC222

Guest
#56
#56
Sac.1989 said:
the modern athlete would have mentally checked out, bolted for the fences much much earlier then where we are now.

the new CBA lets us do more and give more yes, but we shouldn't even be at this point. Any other modern day player would be long gone, if here, simply counting down the days till Free Agency to cash that 130 million and move the hell away from us.

70 million is peanuts when your playing with a) a talentless roster with a myriad of holes which was boogies first 5 seasons with us (and what some would argue is still the case) and b) the most dysfunctional franchise in the league - stemming from the top

He'd make up that 70 million easy from signing for a bigger market or a more successful franchise because on the balance of everything his positive re-imaging in the league would transcend him winning games at a higher clip which he very well may not be able to do here.

But business aside he is ours and thats my point. The money is really a side note when you have been through what Demarcus has here.
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I disagree here $70 million is one heck of a motivator. Could he make up $70 mil in NY? Only if he turned them into winners. That is a high risk for him. I'm glad he is staying but let's not pretend $70 mil for a small town guy like Cuz isn't a driving factor. This is exactly what the league intended the provision for.
 
King Baller

King Baller

All-Star
#59
#59
KingsFan80 said:
Watching this lineup would sure help with some of the FO negativity right now. At least it would be fun watching them play and grow:

PG - Collison, Lawson
SG - Devin Booker, Malachi, Temple
SF - Gay (Until he got hurt), Casspi
PF - Chriss, Tolliver
C - Cousins, Kosta
Click to expand...
It is very easy to cherry pick guys that were drafted like Booker in HINDSIGHT. There are many, many, many more players drafted that don't pan out or under perform.

As for this years picks being a debacle I agree with allrightythen. We cannot judge these picks at this point. Malachi has looked very good in his early games which anyone who has watched the NBA for a few years will tell you is unusual.

With WCS, Malachi, Skal, Big Papa and Bogdan that is five young players to work with and develop. Rather than call that a debacle I consider Vlade landing those guys with two draft picks a minor miracle. (Well Malachi is a product of the Philly trade but I digress).
 
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