Is Vlade clueless?(split)

[KingsFan80]

First off, this is terrible news for Rudy and for a guy who gave a lot to the Kings, hate to see him probably go out like this.

To your comment ---Yes you are 100% spot on. Our GM has NO IDEA what he is doing. Other teams hate talking to him about trades because he is CLUELESS. Why do you think a deal never gets done for any player we are trying to trade? Life of a Kings Fan as it just keeps on giving from one ownership group to another

For those who wanted "Proof" from my prior post as I was called a troll, told to shut up, etc. because I shared some inside information I learned. Reference the ESPN article today:

By way of example, league sources say -- and Divac denies -- that when the Kings and Sixers struck a deal to send Nik Stauskas to Philadelphia, Divac was surprised to learn that the trade had to be confirmed on a conference call with the league. Multiple agents express astonishment at how poorly versed Divac is in the NBA's collective bargaining agreement.
Several agents and executives who shared their thoughts on background have found working with the Kings to be confounding, and negotiations, in the words of one, to be "abnormal." They describe an organization whose constituencies cannot get on the same page, each guided by divergent philosophies and competing preferences. Those on the other side of the table say that not only is it difficult for the Kings to reach organizational consensus on a transaction but they have trouble coming together on the basic decision of even how to proceed. "Getting real proposals is a challenge," a rival executive says. "There's just so much ambiguity about how the decision-making process works [in Sacramento] and what information actually gets back to whom."

 

[Glenn]

Does any of this place blame on Vivek?

 

[Joshoua]

No

 

[Kingsfan23]

If any of that is remotely true, absolutely. And it would be malpractice for Vivek to hire him

I don't believe it to be accurate though, in that they could not have freed up the same cap room by stretching and giving away the combination of Jt/Landry/Stauskas, to my knowledge

I hope it's not true and think other factors were involved other than Vlade not being up to speed with rules as there was other intelligent people working with him like Bratz

 

[allrightythen]

I'm sure there were lots of details that he was not aware of when he took this job. I'm more concerned about Vivek. Vlade has shown the ability to put solid professionals around him and to trust them. Vivek seems to have the ability to make a good hire here and there but has a nasty habit of sabotaging them with his "out of the box" ideas.

 

[Glenn]

I'm sure there were lots of details that he was not aware of when he took this job. I'm more concerned about Vivek. Vlade has shown the ability to put solid professionals around him and to trust them. Vivek seems to have the ability to make a good hire here and there but has a nasty habit of sabotaging them money he can spend, and the like.

Vlade came into the job on a one year contract as a trial year. I don't know who insisted on the one year contract. There is no question that Vlade was a rookie at this. He came to the Kings as a favor or so is what I seem to have read. He will fumble around. However, if you want to point out a person of power who in the past has had a lot to say about who the Kings draft, etc. and who has the capability to express and really want bat crap crazy ideas we have Vivek. Does it not seem likely that Vlade has to get his decisions OK'd by Vivek and therefore can seem very clueless as he doesn't know what he is allowed to do, how much he can spend, and the like.[/quote]

 

[DesertFox]

I believe Vlade is in the bottom tier of GM's when it comes to job knowledge. Which is a not a small deal.
But I infer (desperately hope?) that he is more of a face and final decision maker, and he is listening to smart people around him.

While I prefer the "technical expert" style of GM, I am open-minded and hope that this setup works.

 

[KingsFan80]

Does any of this place blame on Vivek?

Vivek is at fault too. He is the one making the FO hires and allowing the disorganization.

 

[KingsFan80]

If any of that is remotely true, absolutely. And it would be malpractice for Vivek to hire him

I don't believe it to be accurate though, in that they could not have freed up the same cap room by stretching and giving away the combination of Jt/Landry/Stauskas, to my knowledge

I hope it's not true and think other factors were involved other than Vlade not being up to speed with rules as there was other intelligent people working with him like Bratz

A lot of the stuff in that article I have been told before. I mentioned before on here, there are some serious trust issues within the Kings organization. A lot of the people do not believe in Vlade, from minority owners to other Kings staff. I would imagine the same is true about Vivek. It is all about a winning and healthy culture, which I do not believe is there right now. Hard to move forward with a winning franchise in that environment. Also, Vivek needed to rebuild the moment he bought the team instead of trying to win now

 

[Blob]

Vlade was not hired for procedural expertise. He's not the brightest bulb. He was allegedly a chain smoker and never met a weight room he liked as a player. This does NOT reflect work ethic a la Karl Malone. Moreover he's not Geoff Petrie with the Princeton pedigree. He has a rudimentary grasp of the English language and 5th grade vocabulary. Yet none are disqualifying variables to be a successful GM. What he has is a natural leadership and the charisma to bring divergent personalities together and the intuition related to being good to great NBA player.

This counts for something since basketball is not as complicated as analytic nerds want you to believe. The hope is this combination of attributes will ultimately translate. So far he grades out as "C-" or "D+" but it is premature to conclude he's incapable. A replacement would come with as many uncertainties.

While I am at it assessing the higher ups, I cannot blame Vivek for taking an active role over the team he bought and built new home for one billion price tag. Thank you Vivek! He trusted in Pete D based on recommendation of multiple respected colleagues only to see this fraud trade away Isaiah for nothing. He then hired a Hall of Fame coach only to see this past-his-expiration date geezer feud with his franchise player from Day One and try to orchestrate a power play by trading him away. Personnel decisions were not part of a head coaches responsibility yet that did not deter him. Vivek hired a guy he thought would bring harmony and prosperity only to be betrayed by a self-promoter. These are the facts!

So Vivek has trusted in his instincts and advisors and got BURNED twice! Then Vlade's first move as GM was giving away the motherlode to Philly to free up cap space. If you are defending this trade I do not know what to tell you. Its water under the bridge but Zack Lowe summarized well on his podcast today. The Kings could have created the space to sign two of three of Rondo, Marco and Koufos through waive and stretch provision of Landry and Thompson WITHOUT giving away Nik, swap rights and an unconditional first round pick.

There are questions if the Kings and Vlade even knew that such a provision existed! If this is true and sounds like it is, this is negligence pure and simple! So if Vivek is less than 100% trustworthy of the current placeholder in GM, and Vlade IS a placeholder until this team makes the playoffs or finishes with .500 record, I cannot say I blame him for taking a semi-active role in getting this team on the right track.

I think Vivek wants to trust Vlade but I also think he knows trusting those in charge in the past has backfired like a firework going off in his face! If we can make playoff run, if Malchi and Willie start to show more signs of being good, if Boogie continues his impressive pace and signs an extension, a lot of ifs, then maybe this drama has a happy ending moving forward and the later half of this decade.

 

[Kingsfan23]

Vlade was not hired for procedural expertise. He's not the brightest bulb. He was allegedly a chain smoker and never met a weight room he liked as a player. This does NOT reflect work ethic a la Karl Malone. Moreover he's not Geoff Petrie with the Princeton pedigree. He has a rudimentary grasp of the English language and 5th grade vocabulary. Yet none are disqualifying variables to be a successful GM. What he has is a natural leadership and the charisma to bring divergent personalities together and the intuition related to being good to great NBA player.

This counts for something since basketball is not as complicated as analytic nerds want you to believe. The hope is this combination of attributes will ultimately translate. So far he grades out as "C-" or "D+" but it is premature to conclude he's incapable. A replacement would come with as many uncertainties.

While I am at it assessing the higher ups, I cannot blame Vivek for taking an active role over the team he bought and built new home for one billion price tag. Thank you Vivek! He trusted in Pete D based on recommendation of multiple respected colleagues only to see this fraud trade away Isaiah for nothing. He then hired a Hall of Fame coach only to see this past-his-expiration date geezer feud with his franchise player from Day One and try to orchestrate a power play by trading him away. Personnel decisions were not part of a head coaches responsibility yet that did not deter him. Vivek hired a guy he thought would bring harmony and prosperity only to be betrayed by a self-promoter. These are the facts!

So Vivek has trusted in his instincts and advisors and got BURNED twice! Then Vlade's first move as GM was giving away the motherlode to Philly to free up cap space. If you are defending this trade I do not know what to tell you. Its water under the bridge but Zack Lowe summarized well on his podcast today. The Kings could have created the space to sign two of three of Rondo, Marco and Koufos through waive and stretch provision of Landry and Thompson WITHOUT giving away Nik, swap rights and an unconditional first round pick.

There are questions if the Kings and Vlade even knew that such a provision existed! If this is true and sounds like it is, this is negligence pure and simple! So if Vivek is less than 100% trustworthy of the current placeholder in GM, and Vlade IS a placeholder until this team makes the playoffs or finishes with .500 record, I cannot say I blame him for taking a semi-active role in getting this team on the right track.

I think Vivek wants to trust Vlade but I also think he knows trusting those in charge in the past has backfired like a firework going off in his face! If we can make playoff run, if Malchi and Willie start to show more signs of being good, if Boogie continues his impressive pace and signs an extension, a lot of ifs, then maybe this drama has a happy ending moving forward and the later half of this decade.

The original intention I think was to sign Matthews/Rondo, which would have required the trade and couldn't have gotten to the numbers the Kings had offered by simple stretch, to my knowledge. The question then becomes how far down the rabbit hole the Matthews deal was (we were originally outbidding everyone and he visited the following day). Not to say it wasn't fail

 

[kingsboi]

We knew before the hire that Vlade had zero front office experience. It showed with the Sixers trade. I feel he was hired by Vivek to get on the good side of Kings fans since fans loved having him here in his time spent here. Which also goes to show you that you don't bring in someone just because he was a fan favorite in his playing days. Peja was brought along as well, even though he did nothing to be rewarded with his job title. At the time of the hire, I decided that despite this hiring being a desperate plea to get back in the fans' good graces by Vivek, I was going to give Vlade a chance and maybe he would surprise me. I will give him one more offseason to further criticize his moves, that doesn't mean that he should be the GM here long term unless a ideal candidate is available and ready to begin the interview process. Stability is desperately needed for this franchise so I can't and won't be calling for Vlade's head at this point in time. All I can really do at this point is take it for what it is and hold out optimism that with time, he will figure things out.

 

[Blob]

The original intention I think was to sign Matthews/Rondo, which would have required the trade and couldn't have gotten to the numbers the Kings had offered by simple stretch, to my knowledge. The question then becomes how far down the rabbit hole the Matthews deal was (we were originally outbidding everyone and he visited the following day). Not to say it wasn't fail

You help to make my point. Wes Matthews saying "no" to us made that Philly trade less HORRIBLE than it could have been. Can you imagine if we made that trade with those future obligations only to sign a player to near max deal approaching the wrong sign of 30 hobbling up and down the floor with the equivalent effectiveness of 2016-17 Affalo??? At least with Rondo we were on test drive for one season, with Marco we parlayed him into nice SG prospect and Koufos has turned into pretty good player on good deal.

 

[Blob]

We knew before the hire that Vlade had zero front office experience. It showed with the Sixers trade. I feel he was hired by Vivek to get on the good side of Kings fans since fans loved having him here in his time spent here. Which also goes to show you that you don't bring in someone just because he was a fan favorite in his playing days. Peja was brought along as well, even though he did nothing to be rewarded with his job title. At the time of the hire, I decided that despite this hiring being a desperate plea to get back in the fans' good graces by Vivek, I was going to give Vlade a chance and maybe he would surprise me. I will give him one more offseason to further criticize his moves, that doesn't mean that he should be the GM here long term unless a ideal candidate is available and ready to begin the interview process. Stability is desperately needed for this franchise so I can't and won't be calling for Vlade's head at this point in time. All I can really do at this point is take it for what it is and hold out optimism that with time, he will figure things out.

Agree.

 

[Sac.1989]

I don't see it as an issue. We hired vlade to guage talent and manage the team, serve as the link between an abhorrent ownership/front office and team.

What vlade has done in his time here - his body of work is far from poor.

We brought him in with minimum experience choosing to value his soft skills, ties to the region and basketball knowledge above all. The real fault is not having the foresight to provide Vlade with a strong mentor from day one. Something which any other franchise would have absolutely prioritized

 

[KingsFan80]

I don't see it as an issue. We hired vlade to guage talent and manage the team, serve as the link between an abhorrent ownership/front office and team.

What vlade has done in his time here - his body of work is far from poor.

We brought him in with minimum experience choosing to value his soft skills, ties to the region and basketball knowledge above all. The real fault is not having the foresight to provide Vlade with a strong mentor from day one. Something which any other franchise would have absolutely prioritized

How exactly has he done a good job gauging talent? Not being a smart a-- but a serious question. I do agree he has done a good job managing Cousins, I will give him that. I would argue our team now is worse, talent wise, than it was two years ago. We have not been able to get good FAs, WCS is borderline bust. It could change in time but looks like Chriss was a better pick than Papa and Skal, currently. Again, that is too early to make a solid assessment but contribution alone this year says that. We have not been able to get any trades done that make the team better with player personnel.

 

[Dreadnought]

I don't see it as an issue. We hired vlade to guage talent and manage the team, serve as the link between an abhorrent ownership/front office and team.

What vlade has done in his time here - his body of work is far from poor.

We brought him in with minimum experience choosing to value his soft skills, ties to the region and basketball knowledge above all. The real fault is not having the foresight to provide Vlade with a strong mentor from day one. Something which any other franchise would have absolutely prioritized

I can't say I agree. The team hasn't improved even a little bit since he's come through, and his Philly trade is really going to haunt us if we don't figure it out this offseason. The Bellineli for draft pick trade is probably the best move to his name. If Vlade needed a mentor, then he shouldn't have the role he has. He should be an assistant GM.

How exactly has he done a good job gauging talent? Not being a smart a-- but a serious question. I do agree he has done a good job managing Cousins, I will give him that. I would argue our team now is worse, talent wise, than it was two years ago. We have not been able to get good FAs, WCS is borderline bust. It could change in time but looks like Chriss was a better pick than Papa and Skal, currently. Again, that is too early to make a solid assessment but contribution alone this year says that. We have not been able to get any trades done that make the team better with player personnel.

I agree with the first part of your post, but I'm actually in favor of the Chriss trade. Like you said, still too early, but I've been incredibly unimpressed with Chriss. Skal's potential isn't too far off from Chriss. Papa is still a massive, unknown question mark. I'm not holding my breath on Bogdonovic, but signs are pointing to a difficult FA offseason, and having that little bit of potential should help. We basically got three lottery tickets instead of one.

 

[King Baller]

How exactly has he done a good job gauging talent? Not being a smart a-- but a serious question. I do agree he has done a good job managing Cousins, I will give him that. I would argue our team now is worse, talent wise, than it was two years ago. We have not been able to get good FAs, WCS is borderline bust. It could change in time but looks like Chriss was a better pick than Papa and Skal, currently. Again, that is too early to make a solid assessment but contribution alone this year says that. We have not been able to get any trades done that make the team better with player personnel.

You are judging Vlade's Draft Picks way too early. I think by this time next year Malachi, Skal, Big Papa and Bogdan will all be showing good skills and logging minutes. This years Free Agents are the best the Kings have brought in perhaps ever.

I just watched Spell Check defend the King and hit game winning three pointers. Temple is a stud. Ty Lawson has been breaking down defenses and just being an Alpha Dog. Koufos is always ready to bang and rebound with any Big is the Association. Barnes brings Grit and Toughness not seen in Sacramento since Doug jacked Rick Foxes Jaw!

Barring any more serious injuries I think the Kings will kick some butt in the second half of this season!

 

[King Baller]

Not to mention Joerger was brought in Divac's watch and Coach looks to be setting the Kings up for a nice run.

 

[Glenn]

I can't say I agree. The team hasn't improved even a little bit since he's come through, and his Philly trade is really going to haunt us if we don't figure it out this offseason. The Bellineli for draft pick trade is probably the best move to his name. If Vlade needed a mentor, then he shouldn't have the role he has. He should be an assistant GM.

I'll bet he will agree.

 

[Glenn]

You are judging Vlade's Draft Picks way too early. I think by this time next year Malachi, Skal, Big Papa and Bogdan will all be showing good skills and logging minutes. This years Free Agents are the best the Kings have brought in perhaps ever.

I just watched Spell Check defend the King and hit game winning three pointers. Temple is a stud. Ty Lawson has been breaking down defenses and just being an Alpha Dog. Koufos is always ready to bang and rebound with any Big is the Association. Barnes brings Grit and Toughness not seen in Sacramento since Doug jacked Rick Foxes Jaw!

Barring any more serious injuries I think the Kings will kick some butt in the second half of this season!

I agree with you. All I wish is that we had a steady three point shooter. I keep nagging that we need that other star and someone like Klay Thompson would be nice. Boogie's buddy Wall would be nice. No matter who, however, we will probably need to over spend this summer to get another stud. We have the mega star and a bunch of decent role players but we need another stud. Maybe that won't be so difficult. I don't know.

If either Skal or Big Papa pan out, it will be an amazing draft. Happy to see someone else appreciates KK.

 

[DC222]

For those who wanted "Proof" from my prior post as I was called a troll, told to shut up, etc. because I shared some inside information I learned. Reference the ESPN article today:
By way of example, league sources say -- and Divac denies -- that when the Kings and Sixers struck a deal to send Nik Stauskas to Philadelphia, Divac was surprised to learn that the trade had to be confirmed on a conference call with the league. Multiple agents express astonishment at how poorly versed Divac is in the NBA's collective bargaining agreement.
Several agents and executives who shared their thoughts on background have found working with the Kings to be confounding, and negotiations, in the words of one, to be "abnormal." They describe an organization whose constituencies cannot get on the same page, each guided by divergent philosophies and competing preferences. Those on the other side of the table say that not only is it difficult for the Kings to reach organizational consensus on a transaction but they have trouble coming together on the basic decision of even how to proceed. "Getting real proposals is a challenge," a rival executive says. "There's just so much ambiguity about how the decision-making process works [in Sacramento] and what information actually gets back to whom."

And he is still better than petey D

 

[206Fan]

I don't think Vlade was a good hire. I don't agree with the direction he's trying to take the franchise. I honestly don't understand it.

Guy goes from saying Porzingis "wasn't ready to play ANY meaningful NBA minutes" a heavy implication that he would pass on him. He went all in, in 2015/16. Evidence points to drafting a NBA "ready" prospect in WCS. Mortgages Stauskas+future swap+future pick for a run at Wes Matthews, who took less money elsewhere. Plan B was Danny Green, who also took less money elsewhere.
These were all "win-now" moves.
In 2016, he goes in drafting arguably the most "raw" prospects of the 1st round. Even drafts the same position as Cousins. Is he looking to rebuild? Is he doing a completely 360 from his plan a year before?

In FA, he went after a lot of mediocre vets. So what's the clear direction?

I fear that the bigger problem is Vivek and not Vlade.

 

[kingsboi]

I don't think Vlade was a good hire. I don't agree with the direction he's trying to take the franchise. I honestly don't understand it.

Guy goes from saying Porzingis "wasn't ready to play ANY meaningful NBA minutes" a heavy implication that he would pass on him. He went all in, in 2015/16. Evidence points to drafting a NBA "ready" prospect in WCS. Mortgages Stauskas+future swap+future pick for a run at Wes Matthews, who took less money elsewhere. Plan B was Danny Green, who also took less money elsewhere.
These were all "win-now" moves.
In 2016, he goes in drafting arguably the most "raw" prospects of the 1st round. Even drafts the same position as Cousins. Is he looking to rebuild? Is he doing a completely 360 from his plan a year before?

In FA, he went after a lot of mediocre vets. So what's the clear direction?

I fear that the bigger problem is Vivek and not Vlade.

Which is the scariest problem out of all.

 

[Sac.1989]

How exactly has he done a good job gauging talent? Not being a smart a-- but a serious question. I do agree he has done a good job managing Cousins, I will give him that. I would argue our team now is worse, talent wise, than it was two years ago. We have not been able to get good FAs, WCS is borderline bust. It could change in time but looks like Chriss was a better pick than Papa and Skal, currently. Again, that is too early to make a solid assessment but contribution alone this year says that. We have not been able to get any trades done that make the team better with player personnel.

I would argue he has drafted well and that we are beginning to see signs of this. WCS is far from a bust. Give the kid more than a season. This year's draft was solid in my eyes. Our SG rotation will be our strength next season.

I would argue he has managed cousins well. The fact cousins holds him in high regard says a lot after the farce which was George Karl. Cousins has grown under Vlade and he trusts him enough to publicly declare his love for the kings and want to resign. If he does this will be under Vlades stewardship and his single greatest win. How the hell did Vlade divac keep boogie in Sacramento and lock him in long term will be the word on everyones lips and it's because contrary to popular belief he's actually good at building relationships and managing assets from a people and talent management perspective.

 

[KingsFan80]

And he is still better than petey D

Cannot disagree with that, anyone who lets IT go I am not a fan of at all

 

[peacelate]

Not hard to get a guy to re-sign when you put $200 million in front of him.

 

[Turgenev]

Sad that the organisation has not yet found the same clarity obtained by the other 29 basketball teams, two major political parties or the continent of Europe. I demand vlade learn how to operate a fax machine before reapplying for his job.

 

[Joshoua]

So

1. Vlade is getting Boogie to resign for 5 years.

2. Got us a top coach

3. With no future picks got us Richardson, Popa, Skal, and Bogdan.


Ya he's terrible

 

[allrightythen]

Vlade came into the job on a one year contract as a trial year. I don't know who insisted on the one year contract. There is no question that Vlade was a rookie at this. He came to the Kings as a favor or so is what I seem to have read. He will fumble around. However, if you want to point out a person of power who in the past has had a lot to say about who the Kings draft, etc. and who has the capability to express and really want bat poopoo crazy ideas we have Vivek. Does it not seem likely that Vlade has to get his decisions OK'd by Vivek and therefore can seem very clueless as he doesn't know what he is allowed to do, how much he can spend, and the like.

[/quote]

There was some talk that Vlade wasn't sure he wanted the job, don't know how true that was. I think it's pretty clear that he was hired for ability to bring people together. It's taken time but there is now a solid executive team running the Kings. If Vivek is still meddling that team doesn't really matter and I think we're all hoping that he is learning to let his executives execute.