Is Vlade clueless?(split)

[John Galt]

That is a great idea. The only part I would change is move Vlade to a newly created position like VP for Community Engagement then make Hinkie the GM.

Great plan but I'm too old for that... I want them to win while I can still ascend stairs without help. I don't want to go through 5 years at the rock bottom of the standings, putting a less than NBA product on the floor as we tank for lotto picks again and again and again and again. Pass I want no part of Hinkie.

 

[KingsFan80]

Great plan but I'm too old for that... I want them to win while I can still ascend stairs without help. I don't want to go through 5 years at the rock bottom of the standings, putting a less than NBA product on the floor as we tank for lotto picks again and again and again and again. Pass I want no part of Hinkie.

Philly is going to be a great team in about a year. They loaded up on everyone elses mistakes for years. Did it take too long? yeah probably but it was smart moves. Plus I think his moves were all due to the mess he inherited. He didn't have a DMC

 

[DC222]

Agreed the Kings have Great Fans

Having the Team saved by Vivek and Company and then building a beautiful new arena is right up there though

Vivek is part of the problem imo. He is hindering the team building process

 

[Section 101]

He'd make up that 70 million easy from signing for a bigger market or a more successful franchise because on the balance of everything his positive re-imaging in the league would transcend him winning games at a higher clip which he very well may not be able to do here.

LOL. That is Ryan Andersons contract. You wont be making up anything in another market unless it's tax related.

 

[Warhawk]

Not hard to get a guy to re-sign when you put $200 million in front of him.

It sure can be. See the Spurs and Aldridge and West. See Matthews going to Dallas instead of Sac. See Duncan sign for less to stay in SA. Lots of examples of guys turning down $$$ to go where they want. DMC wants to be here. And that is special for a player of his caliber.

 

[Warhawk]

I disagree here $70 million is one heck of a motivator. Could he make up $70 mil in NY? Only if he turned them into winners. That is a high risk for him. I'm glad he is staying but let's not pretend $70 mil for a small town guy like Cuz isn't a driving factor. This is exactly what the league intended the provision for.

Do you know the kind of endorsement deals he could get in a larger market with a winning team? Shoes, cars, whatever. He'd make up the $70 mil easy.

And while yes, that is why the league made that provision, don't you think DMC would give up some guaranteed contract $$$ to make somewhat similar $$$ with new endorsements in a big city with a better record if he really wanted to? He wants to win here. He wants to be a Dirk or Duncan. Stick with your team and help them win. No jumping from team to team to chase rings. He wants to be the alpha dog that drags his team to the top. More power to him.

 

[The Hammer]

Vivek is part of the problem imo. He is hindering the team building process

Examples?

 

[gil renard]

Examples?

Woj and the ESPN story both point to him blocking Rudy trades. No one really knows his role in the Malone firing, but he did sign off on it. Those are two big debacles there.

 

[upinsmoke]

Woj and the ESPN story both point to him blocking Rudy trades. No one really knows his role in the Malone firing, but he did sign off on it. Those are two big debacles there.

It depends on what trades he blocked. As the person who writes the checks he has a say. For example if the NYK where trying to trade us C. Anthony for a package centered around Rudy and Vivek says heck no that's within his rights imo.

 

[The Hammer]

Woj and the ESPN story both point to him blocking Rudy trades. No one really knows his role in the Malone firing, but he did sign off on it. Those are two big debacles there.

Malone thing is way old and we were a total mess then.

I'm talking since he publicly and officially ceded all basketball decisions to Vlade.

Maybe people missed that, but we have had a distinct change in operations since that time.

The vague report of him blocking a Rudy trade is the only thing in the last 1.5 years that I have heard of him interfering in. Hence, it would be an anomaly, given recent behavior. I am less likely to be concerned about it. I also don't think he necessarily blocked it, but perhaps it is just a way for his name to get in the papers regarding the team. There could be multiple reasons for that, including internal political maneuvering, him wanting to boost his cred to specific business contacts, etc. The world he lives in is strange and complex.

Also, we are to believe we could have traded Rudy for something we liked? Hard to swallow. He may have put his two cents in on an obvious no.

The lack of specifics of the supposed trade makes it seem like just another hit job to make us look disorganized and incompetent. Woj is playing politics here too, you better believe. Who is he really writing for here, is my question.

 

[peacelate]

It sure can be. See the Spurs and Aldridge and West. See Matthews going to Dallas instead of Sac. See Duncan sign for less to stay in SA. Lots of examples of guys turning down $$$ to go where they want. DMC wants to be here. And that is special for a player of his caliber.

Did Sac offer Matthews $70 million more than the Mavs? Did the Blazers offer offer $70 million more than the Spurs and get turned down. $70 million is immensely different than 20 million. It's not pocket change.

DMC wants to be here, but I don't believe Vlade contributed much to his loyalty.

 

[gil renard]

Also, we are to believe we could have traded Rudy for something we liked? Hard to swallow. He may have put his two cents in on an obvious no.

You've said it yourself, Rudy clearly didn't want to be here and wasn't contributing to the team's success. It was foolish for Vivek to think Rudy would turn this into a playoff team and be convinced to stay here. He should not have been a part of any long term plans here...I would have traded him away for anything that didn't involve taking back a bad contract...pretty much addition by subtraction with Rudy. Sorry, I've cut the FO some slack before but this was a huge eff up...I don't want to hear about bad luck, Rudy shouldn't have been in a Kings uniform this season.

 

[The Hammer]

You've said it yourself, Rudy clearly didn't want to be here and wasn't contributing to the team's success. It was foolish for Vivek to think Rudy would turn this into a playoff team and be convinced to stay here. He should not have been a part of any long term plans here...I would have traded him away for anything that didn't involve taking back a bad contract...pretty much addition by subtraction with Rudy. Sorry, I've cut the FO some slack before but this was a huge eff up...I don't want to hear about bad luck, Rudy shouldn't have been in a Kings uniform this season.

I'm with you on that, I just don't see solid evidence that Vivek actually meddled, or that we had any trade options at all.

Every single other decision, as well as the overall vision for the team, is being done by Vlade.

I just don't want people to focus on one inconclusive piece of evidence as proof that every other conclusive and concrete piece of evidence is wrong. The concrete evidence we have paints a picture. A very good one.

I don't think he meddled. I think he grandstanded.

I also think we were saved by the basketball gods when the injury happened (hate to say that about a guy who went down). We immediately improved.

 

[kingjatt]

Woj and the ESPN story both point to him blocking Rudy trades. No one really knows his role in the Malone firing, but he did sign off on it. Those are two big debacles there.

Sim Bhullar to get the first indian bucket in the NBA. 4 on 5, Nik rocks, Hiring a coach before GM, wanting playoffs when the arena would open regardless of the state of the team etc theres more that i cant think of ATM. Basketball wise he has only been better than the maloofs because he has been willing to spend, decsion wise hes probably been worse.

He has a big say in who stays and goes while possessing little basketball knowledge, the gag order, which he broke earlier this year and had to apologize, only means his basketball incompetences and influence are a little bit better hidden.

We as fans will have to go thru the long learning process with him but hey he built a new arena and kept the team here.

 

[The Hammer]

Sim Bhullar to get the first indian bucket in the NBA. 4 on 5, Nik rocks, Hiring a coach before GM, wanting playoffs when the arena would open regardless of the state of the team etc theres more that i cant think of ATM. Basketball wise he has only been better than the maloofs because he has been willing to spend, decsion wise hes probably been worse.

He has a big say in who stays and goes while possessing little basketball knowledge, the gag order, which he broke earlier this year and had to apologize, only means his basketball incompetences and influence are a little bit better hidden.

We as fans will have to go thru the long learning process with him but hey he built a new arena and kept the team here.

Vlade is completely responsible for nearly every single player on the current roster, as well as the coach, and front office staff. While he still holds power, Vivek is mostly a figurehead at this point. You have to give credit where due.

He's never going to be silent. And he shouldn't be. It's his team.

 

[DC222]

Vlade is completely responsible for nearly every single player on the current roster, as well as the coach, and front office staff. While he still holds power, Vivek is mostly a figurehead at this point. You have to give credit where due.

He's never going to be silent. And he shouldn't be. It's his team.

Your two statements conflict. We have no idea what is happening behind the scenes. However, I doubt he is hands off on decision making. He just isn't in the media. Does behavior of a person change that much in just because it's dark.

 

[DC222]

Do you know the kind of endorsement deals he could get in a larger market with a winning team? Shoes, cars, whatever. He'd make up the $70 mil easy.

And while yes, that is why the league made that provision, don't you think DMC would give up some guaranteed contract $$$ to make somewhat similar $$$ with new endorsements in a big city with a better record if he really wanted to? He wants to win here. He wants to be a Dirk or Duncan. Stick with your team and help them win. No jumping from team to team to chase rings. He wants to be the alpha dog that drags his team to the top. More power to him.

Yes with a winning team. There is risk there. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Besides most winning teams don't have cap room.

 

[andjel]

There are some interesting statements here:

1) Of course Cuz will sign, we are offering more money than anybody else
For years it was known that Kings can give much more money to Cuz.
Only now when there are clearer signs that he might actually accept it, folks are showing up and saying it is not a big deal, of course he would do that.
Why was everybody then worried about whether he will resign with the Kings or hoping he would not if things were so clear/easy?
Can some of folks stating that now prove their wisdom and share their posts from the past where they were so sure that will happen.

2)Kings drafting sucks, look what team we could have.
The lottery numbers for last week were 17, 37, 53, 54, 61 with MB 8.
Where are the posts that were showing their wisdom during the draft where they were able to predict the future.
Predicting the past is not a skill nor a valid argument.

3)Lets do Hinkie.
That would require similarities between Philly in 2013 and Kings.
Between team that prior to 2013 has the decade of going in and out of playoffs vs team that sucked
The team that had injured Jrue and Thadeus Young as a core to build around vs team that has Cuz (try to hit the bottom with Cuz on the team, Kings could not)
The team that is in one of the largest markets in USA vs one of the smallest
While I like what Hinkie did for Philly in that moment in time, there are good reasons why teams are rarely doing that.

4)Lottery pick in 2019 will push us back for YEARS to come.
One pick, one. In the worst predictable case it will be one year setback.

5)Vlade's draft picks suck
Wrong timing since WCS and Malachi are showing signs of belonging in NBA, and Papa is not as oafish as he was in the summer. As mentioned, you can only look silly when you poopoo on the rookies/sophomores, even if you could eventually be right. Rookie year does not a career make.

 

[Warhawk]

Did Sac offer Matthews $70 million more than the Mavs? Did the Blazers offer offer $70 million more than the Spurs and get turned down. $70 million is immensely different than 20 million. It's not pocket change.

DMC wants to be here, but I don't believe Vlade contributed much to his loyalty.

$20 million isn't pocket change either. Not to me, anyways. I don't know what your salary is. Difference in degree, but not principle.

 

[Warhawk]

Yes with a winning team. There is risk there. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Besides most winning teams don't have cap room.

There is always risk. Heat had cap room. Warriors had cap room. It can be done if there is a target someone really wants to get.

 

[DC222]

There is always risk. Heat had cap room. Warriors had cap room. It can be done if there is a target someone really wants to get.

And throwing a team together doesn't always work. If they were thrown together at didn't gel well no endorsements at $70 mil

 

[peacelate]

Do you know the kind of endorsement deals he could get in a larger market with a winning team? Shoes, cars, whatever. He'd make up the $70 mil easy.

And while yes, that is why the league made that provision, don't you think DMC would give up some guaranteed contract $$$ to make somewhat similar $$$ with new endorsements in a big city with a better record if he really wanted to? He wants to win here. He wants to be a Dirk or Duncan. Stick with your team and help them win. No jumping from team to team to chase rings. He wants to be the alpha dog that drags his team to the top. More power to him.

I'm actually not aware of any endorsements that would easily mitigate the loss in capital. Most of the top earners off the court are guards and small forwards who seem to be inherently more marketable to a broader audience. For reference, Porzingis playing in NY is earning 3-6 million a year from addidas which is minute compared to top earners.

 

[Kingster]

I sure get the sense that there is a group that feels we don't deserve and could never get somebody as GM with a proven background of excellence. After all, we're just little ol' Sacramento and FAs don't want to come here, so why should a good GM want to come here? That thinking leaves us with a trainee as GM, a guy whose curriculum vitae was one year as a Euro scout. So then we give the trainee 2, 3, 4, however many years to prove that he can do the job? No one is quite sure about that. We've given McLemore 4 years to prove his worth, so by extension do we give Vlade 4 years to prove his? I know: patience patience. Let's have patience with a total crap shoot. And how exactly did this hire come about? Was it through a studious and extensive league-wide search to scour for the best scouts and assistant GMs and GMs of other teams? Nope. Apparently it just started during the "time of crisis" with a few casual phone calls between Vivek and Vlade, who presumably had some comments and suggestions on the teams' direction, and the light bulb came in Vivek's head - hey Vlade, how about if you become the head of this operation? It reeks of a casual ad hoc approach, maybe a desperate approach to the management of this team. So now we're left with news reports of the mismanagement of this team, that's if you don't believe your own eyes, and at best a fervent hope that if we just have patience, patience that the rookie is going to turn out good. Unfortunately, again by extension, most rookies in the NBA don't turn out good.

 

[kingjatt]

Vlade is completely responsible for nearly every single player on the current roster, as well as the coach, and front office staff. While he still holds power, Vivek is mostly a figurehead at this point. You have to give credit where due.

He's never going to be silent. And he shouldn't be. It's his team.

Let me put it this way, if you signed off over a quarter or more of your net worth on an entity would be completely hands off on such a vital part of that entity? Hes not just some hands off figurehead.

Especially with what happend under PDA which made Vivek look like a fool nationally if anything he is more involved with a first timer like Vlade than ever before.

But as mentioned your guess is as good as mine and who knows what really happens behind the scenes. Based on the evidence though I choose to believe that he is more involved than we would like him to be.

Watch his interviews the dude has a huge ego about how he came from nothing and became a billionaire. He conquered the complicated tech arena in quick fashion. What makes him think that he couldnt fix something where the objective is to put a ball in a friggin hoop.

 

[VF21]

Yes with a winning team. There is risk there. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Besides most winning teams don't have cap room.

That's misleading. Care to substantiate?

 

[VF21]

Let me put it this way, if you signed off over a quarter or more of your net worth on an entity would be completely hands off on such a vital part of that entity? Hes not just some hands off figurehead.

Especially with what happend under PDA which made Vivek look like a fool nationally if anything he is more involved with a first timer like Vlade than ever before.

But as mentioned your guess is as good as mine and who knows what really happens behind the scenes. Based on the evidence though I choose to believe that he is more involved than we would like him to be.

Watch his interviews the dude has a huge ego about how he came from nothing and became a billionaire. He conquered the complicated tech arena in quick fashion. What makes him think that he couldnt fix something where the objective is to put a ball in a friggin hoop.

I beg to differ. There is no current reliable evidence that suggests any such thing.

 

[Warhawk]

I'm actually not aware of any endorsements that would easily mitigate the loss in capital. Most of the top earners off the court are guards and small forwards who seem to be inherently more marketable to a broader audience. For reference, Porzingis playing in NY is earning 3-6 million a year from addidas which is minute compared to top earners.

Boogie would likely get a lot more than P (3x+ all-star, top big man in the league, multi-gold medal winner, etc.). And like you said, 3-6 mil is "minute" compared to many. The potential is there. Boogie has bigger concerns than $$$, but the $$$ would be there. At least close enough to not be a concern.

 

[kingjatt]

I beg to differ. There is no current reliable evidence that suggests any such thing.

Its not hard evidence as prefaced by the sentence before that but my opinion is based on my feel for what ive seen out of reports, interviews of vivek etc.

In a dream world he never murmurs a word about personnel, style of play, which players hes in love with etc but he himself has elaborated on such things in interviews. "jazz conductor" "pace" "positionless basketball"etc.

Again my guess is as good as anyone who says hes learned his lesson. But i chose to believe he has not and is just involved as before just following a gag order now.

 

[VF21]

Its not hard evidence as prefaced by the sentence before that but my opinion is based on my feel for what ive seen out of reports, interviews of vivek etc.

In a dream world he never murmurs a word about personnel, style of play, which players hes in love with etc but he himself has elaborated on such things in interviews. "jazz conductor" "pace" "positionless basketball"etc.

Again my guess is as good as anyone who says hes learned his lesson. But i chose to believe he has not and is just involved as before just following a gag order now.

I will point out that until this season I would routinely hear through a wide variety of channels rumors of discontent about Vivek and his meddling. I have heard absolutely NONE recently. So I guess I'm saying I trust what I'm not hearing more than your guess. No offense meant, however.

 

[peacelate]

Boogie would likely get a lot more than P (3x+ all-star, top big man in the league, multi-gold medal winner, etc.). And like you said, 3-6 mil is "minute" compared to many. The potential is there. Boogie has bigger concerns than $$$, but the $$$ would be there. At least close enough to not be a concern.

Blake Griffin by comparison gets $8M/year and has all the accolades and success while playing in a big market. Still, his endorsements pale in comparison to top earners. I just don't believe Boggie could "easily" recoup any losses encountered by signing for a lesser contract in a bigger market.