Is it the Vets or the coaching or ???

[CruzDude]

To have that great a difference in the past 4 games points to some very serious problems. The Nugget and Knicks games were carbon copies, horrible. First Laker game great, second one OK but getting back to old stuff.

But just where is the problem? Another thread says the players love Reggie. If so they don't play like they even buy into his plans. Or maybe his plans stink.

The Vets are clearly frustrated. Thumper is back to thumping too much again. Brad gets easily frustrated. No one guards anyone on the perimeter. Ball movement has disappeared. And poor JT seems scared to drive the middle when he has the ball. All game he passed the ball like it was a very hot potato.

Beno is doing good but that's about it. On 8-10 possessions I watched all 5 Kings and for all but 2 of those the entire team was out beyond the 3 pt line standing around. I didn't see one back door, few pick-and-rolls and very little movement until late 3rd when all the kids were in. But that movement seemed to stop and not get going again.

Sorry folks but after 22 games my glass is now half empty with one burning question: if they fire Theus, does another coach have the pieces necessary to get back on a winning track? I think so. But I also doubt there is an interim coach on the existing staff as none of them have any head coaching experience either.

Maybe there is another even bigger question/situation right in front of us. The Maloofs have apparently made two poor coaching choices in a row with the last one apparently not the #1 candidate on GP's list. I don't propose to have any facts other than what all of us see and read. But................

 

[PurpleHaze]

To just take the game tonight for a moment. The Kings came out horribly flat in 1Q to go down big - real big. After that Q's 2-4 it was virtually even - with Kings losing by just 2. Obviously, Theus motivated them enough at half-time to attempt some kind of a mild comeback. So, as Reggie might say the Kings played good for 10 mins, but lousy for 38. He tried - they didn't.

Missing Martin is a BIG VOID as he's not only the best Kings player but he gets to the line against everybody and that puts pressure on an opposing D every night out.

I would rather hang with Theus than go with an interim coach just for the helluva it and clearly NO TO TAKING A WHIZ.

Let's go beat Minny, get K-Mart back and march on or attempt to march on.

 

[Sluggah]

ultimately...i'd prefer the order to be...move the vets, give reggie a chance with an updated roster. and if it continues...then reggie goes.

 

[VF21]

Is it the vets? Is it the coaching? Is it alien possession?

The sad truth is that it isn't any one thing. That would be easy to fix...

There's a myriad of reasons why the Kings look so awful right now. And unfortunately, it's not going to get better in the near future.

We have too many role players and not enough true stars, for one thing.

We have no superstar or hero to build a team around, although I sure think Spencer Hawes just MIGHT end up growing into a significant player.

We have too many coaches and too few teachers.

We have players that are really of no use to us at all.

Those are just four things off the top of my head, and there are more...

It's always darkest before the dawn. Right now I don't think it can get too much darker.

 

[Moose9]

The problem is not Theus, it's the roster full of soft players who don't seem to get angry when another team is kicking their butt.
IMO if Theus goes then so should Petrie. Petrie seems to get rid of all the tough minded players......trading Pollard and Hedo for Miller says it all.
Watching this team is REALLY PAINFULL!

 

[theclash4u5]

Is it the vets? Is it the coaching? Is it alien possession?

The sad truth is that it isn't any one thing. That would be easy to fix...

There's a myriad of reasons why the Kings look so awful right now. And unfortunately, it's not going to get better in the near future.

We have too many role players and not enough true stars, for one thing.

We have no superstar or hero to build a team around, although I sure think Spencer Hawes just MIGHT end up growing into a significant player.

We have too many coaches and too few teachers.

We have players that are really of no use to us at all.

Those are just four things off the top of my head, and there are more...

It's always darkest before the dawn. Right now I don't think it can get too much darker.

I could definately see Hawes turning into a very good player in the future, but I don't think I could ever see him as the player you turn to in a close game for a clutch shot or becoming a real leader of this team.

 

[ZZ-TOP]

OK people make up your mind. Majority of the posters on this board agreed that this team is not going anywhere this year. Going with this logic, it is wise to tank the season. Tanking the season means loosing games.
And now we are down to artistic impression. Can somebody explain, how to motivate a player to play with full heart for, I don't know, 40 minutes and then just let it go? It's maybe possible in a short run. In the long run the whole effort thing becomes pointless and we are witnesses of the process as we speak.
Except it, it will be long painful season for a higher cause.

 

[Kings Faithful]

Something needs to be done. I would prefer it be a trade to solve some lineup issues at PG, SF, and PF and give Reggie a shot with that. If nothing changes then get rid of Reggie.

 

[HighTopKicks]

It's definitely the players, and Miller in particular. In the 1st Q, he and Beno gave up 4 baskets defending the pick & roll, and in most cases he left with his man after Beno got picked and the guard followed him to the basket for a layup. Later he ended up switching with Donte and got stuck covering Jefferies who doubled back for a jam. ( thats the one where they showed the Knicks bench laughing)

For the most part we defended the 3 well enough by having a hand in their face except Cisco who likes to take them out with a body slam when he gets frustrated.(Bad Cisco) But, our problem is, we don't have great 3pt shooters. We don't make them when we're wide open, and everyone knows it. One time they even backed off Salmons one of our better shooters and he missed. If we made a desent percentage, the 3pt defense wouldn't be such a major disadvantage.

The offense from our bigs is pathetic. None of them can shot a jumper with any consistancy, and JT has got to learn to use the backboard or start dunking more. Those little tosses that seem to bounce off the rim more often then they go in, really are weak.

 

[Gary]

The players aren't meshing with one another. We get OK performances from like 4-6 guys, but they aren't playing well together for more than 10 minutes a night. The rest it's all one on one crap which is just horrible to watch.

It's obvious the season is over, and the games are pretty much for draft position right now. We need "glue" to hold this rag-tag roster together. Including the young guys because if they cannot find a way to play well together now then we will have a ****ty team for a long long time.

 

[SacTownKid]

The fact that everyone in the world knows Theus is probably getting fired regardless doesn't help things.

 

[jcassio]

I agree with VF that it's a whole bunch of things. However, our defense is the worst. And while we have some soft vets, we also have a coach who is responsible for the defense. That would be Chuck Person. If Reggie gets fired in mid-season, Chuck has to go, too.

Overall, I'd say the weakest links are the coaching staff, followed by the soft vets.

As many of us have said before, we can take the losing if we're truly rebuilding and if they're playing hard. Well, one out of two don't cut it.

 

[bajaden]

I could definately see Hawes turning into a very good player in the future, but I don't think I could ever see him as the player you turn to in a close game for a clutch shot or becoming a real leader of this team.

And you base your conclusion on? I'm just curious why you believe what you believe. Hawes is very talented and only in his second year. He's a guy that hates to lose and is a very vocal person. Some would say that those are attributes that could lead to being a leader on the team in the future.

Bear in mind, that the leader of a team isn't always the very best player on the team.

 

[bajaden]

Well that game was fun! Here are my thoughts. Number one, the Kings didn't seem prepared for the style of basketball the Knicks were going to play. The Kings seemed to be on their heels from the get go. Mistake number one, was that the Kings tried to play the same game without the same weapons.

The one advantage I thought we had was a size advantage inside. One would have never known it, because all we did was lob three point shots at the basket. The minute the game started and I saw Miller guarding Harrington, I thought Oh Oh, bad matchup. The only player that did a decent job guarding Harrington was JT. But when Harrington and the Knicks decided that JT was a problem man to man they simply screened him off and no one rotated.

Salmons comments that the Knicks forced the Kings into taking three's is pure nonsense. If I were the Kings I would have hammered and hammered the ball inside. If nothing else you get to the foul line and the game stops. It slows down a team that wants to run. I would have walked the ball up the court and used the whole shot clock to get a good shot in a halfcourt offense. When your offense is set and you know the play being run, its easier to rebound and easier to get back in transition.

Right now the Kings don't have consistant three pt shooter. Martin of course leaps to mind, but he's not here right now and even when he does come back, one wonders how much naval jelly it will take to get the rust off. Thats why I endorsed a Miller for Miller trade in the Personal fourm. It would at least give us a good three pt shooter. And one that doesn't dribble the ball to china to get his shot.

In closing, the Kings are a team in transition. Their apples and oranges, old and new. Being the coach is not an easy job. But Reggie has to decide what kind of team he's going to create. Right now it looks like fruit salad. Old fruit salad.

 

[Eclipse]

We have too many role players and not enough true stars, for one thing.

Or role players who think they are stars. But I guess they can't be blamed considering the void has to be filled somehow, even with 2nd tier players.

 

[Section 101]

The one advantage I thought we had was a size advantage inside. One would have never known it, because all we did was lob three point shots at the basket. The minute the game started and I saw Miller guarding Harrington, I thought Oh Oh, bad matchup. The only player that did a decent job guarding Harrington was JT. But when Harrington and the Knicks decided that JT was a problem man to man they simply screened him off and no one rotated.

Totally agree. When the Knicks made their first subs they took Lee out. We still had Miller and Hawes in with harrington and Tim Thomas guarding them. The first shot was Hawes for a 3. Reggie should have called a post up play be he kept the corner series. Also, they should have posted up Beno on Robinson a few times too.

Oh, and I don't know how but Shelden has gotten even worse posting up. He can't even get his shot blocked now because its going straight up.

 

[Kingster]

Best Case for Theus

Starts at the top with the Maloofs giving mixed messages about winning and playing the young guys. Then you have mediocre point guard play, which always makes a team and coach look lousy. Then you have no consistent low post scoring, which inherently makes for an inconsistent offensive (and it can be argued) defensive performance, again making the coach look lousy. Then you have one consistent scorer in Salmons, the other being injured in Martin. And with Martin, our best player, out with injury, who doesn't think that that doesn't affect the confidence of the team? And if the confidence is affected, isn't the performance as well? Of course it is. Then you have the fact that our most talented guys are the most inexperience guys who are in need of much refinement. Theus can't make Hawes and Thompson into overnight low post sensations overnight. No coach could. No coach on the planet could make Miller play better. Theus is in his second year. Did the Maloofs or anyone else for that matter think he wouldn't make mistakes? Of course not. That would be naive. By and large the team has played hard. Phil Jackson commented as such. The team is obviously in transition and as such will look terrible at times regardless of the coach. If Theus is fired and an assistant takes over it will make no difference whatsoever, except that it will reinforce the notion in the vets and younger guys that it's the coach who will be the "fall guy", not them. It's the coach who will be taking the responsibility for their inadequacy, not them. Is that a message you really want to send?

 

[Elise10]

And with Martin, our best player, out with injury, who doesn't think that that doesn't affect the confidence of the team?

I don't. In fact I would hope that they would want to play better because of our best player being out.

Theus can't make Hawes and Thompson into overnight low post sensations overnight. No coach could.

And no coach has asked to do so. What has been asked for is minutes to develop them. That's not going to happened if they are going to be yanked for minor mistakes as opposed to letting those stay who make repeated ones.

By and large the team has played hard. Phil Jackson commented as such. The team is obviously in transition and as such will look terrible at times regardless of the coach. If Theus is fired and an assistant takes over it will make no difference whatsoever, except that it will reinforce the notion in the vets and younger guys that it's the coach who will be the "fall guy", not them. It's the coach who will be taking the responsibility for their inadequacy, not them. Is that a message you really want to send?

In a word: Yes. It's called a shake up and if that needs to be done in order to for the team to realize that your sloppy, uninspiring, downright lazy playing will not be tolerated. Especially for a coach that the players "like".

 

[LPKingsFan]

My biggest reason for opposing a coaching change is this: if we fire Reggie, it's highly unlikely that the interim coach is re-hired in the summer. Which would leave us with five coaches in the last five years. Then, maybe you realize that it's not the coach that's the problem...

 

[Bricklayer]

My biggest reason for opposing a coaching change is this: if we fire Reggie, it's highly unlikely that the interim coach is re-hired in the summer. Which would leave us with five coaches in the last five years. Then, maybe you realize that it's not the coach that's the problem...

We are going to fire Reggie this summer anyway. He is done. Sticka fork in him. Now or later. So it makes no difference whether he is fired now, an interim fills in, and then we go shopping for the real guy, or we keep Reggie until the end of the year, then fire then go shopping for the real guy. Either way the end result is the same. All that matters is the job done between now and April. Doesn't matter who does it. They are all out of town in 5 months.

 

[juicij36]

It never fails. Fire the head coach when a teams playing bad. INCREDIBLE! I'LL NEVER UNDERSTAND IT!

Wake-up call to the team? B.S.
What do people/owners/fans/us expect? They suck.
I luv'm, but they suck. Mostly due to inexperience, so it's not their fault. They simply can't match-up against any1 they play.

If this was a young team like TOR, NY, POR, or MIA w/enough talent to @ least push for the playoffs, then mayB firing the head coach can be an option if things aren't going as the owners would like them to.
But SAC ain't there yet, & won't be for a while (esecially playing in the West) until we can get some better players in here, & get rid of alot of old trash we have.

They got rid of Adleman 'cause they couldn't get over the hump in the playoffs, or get to the Finals, or play D, fine. They thought they could compete better w/a diff head coach. Did I approve? No, but I can see reasoning behind it. The same goes for DET and PHX; I can see the reasoning behind it.

Red Auerbach couldn't make this team win games. Let Theus do his thing for now.
Firing him mid-season, NONSENSE; unless he's clearly on a different page or defying what the owners want out of him & the team.

 

[CruzDude]

Kingster makes some valid points. Looking at the previous comments seems to indicate about even "its the coach vs. its the vets".

I think Reggie has been dealt a moving target as to team/players due to various injuries and 5 "kids" of which one is Beno due to inexperience. Shelden is on the bubble. The biggest things the big kids don't due yet is proper rotation on defense (defending the pick-and-roll), face up defense (guarding their man on the perimeter) and in JT's case, drive the basket.

Coaching is a big part of that and time to learn. But if as several have said, Theus is a coach and not a teacher, then that is part of the problem. All the other assistant coaches played ball but none (other than Natt) have any coaching/teaching experience. I have always thought Reggie needed an older ex-NBA coach on staff and not having one is a detriment.

I love Brad's overall game but if the "rebuilding" is truly to make progress, maybe Hawes needs to start at the 5 and JT at the 4 with Brad and Mikki off the bench. But Mikki is horrible and jello hands so maybe that gives Shelden a better shot off the bench at the 5.

Biggest missing pieces in 3 of the last 4 games (excluding Lakers at Arco) was player movement without the ball, ball movement and aggressive defense. In fact in most all of the games even some they have won.

Look at games 5-8 after the disaster starting on the road. They looked better then compared to now. What has changed?

I also think Brick is right-on that Reggie is gone, this summer. But it might hurt the kids more for him to leave early than after end of season. They are fragile and need teaching and coaching.

Final thought. Aggressive defense is up to the players. Movement without the ball and rotating on pick-and-rolls is up to the coaches to set the pattern of play and to "coach" them to do it. For me the problem is 70% coaching and 30% players

 

[Elise10]

Let Theus do his thing for now.
Firing him mid-season, NONSENSE; unless he's clearly on a different page or defying what the owners want out of him & the team.

Hasn't he been called out by the owners for doing exactly that? Since at least March of last season?

 

[VF21]

Hasn't he been called out by the owners for doing exactly that? Since at least March of last season?

Yep, several times if various reports are to be believed, including comments made directly to the media by Joe Maloof.

 

[Kingster]

Yep, several times if various reports are to be believed, including comments made directly to the media by Joe Maloof.

And to continue to play devil's advocate, the Maloofs have also made statements about winning. If the Maloofs want this season to be a training seminar for the youngins, then they should have a discussion with Reggie to that effect, sign an extension to his contract with that understanding, and let him develop the youth as his #1 concern. If Theus doesn't know if he's going to be back, or if he does know he isn't going to be back, he's going to try to win as many games as he can, regardless of the youth, because wins and losses is going to be at the top of his resume.