Is it ok to talk about this hatchet job on the WNBA here?

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#1
This video came up on my YT feed demonstrating how the WNBA is unsustainable in any sort of realistic business model. The only way I can understand how the WNBA has not folded yet is it must be a huge tax write off for the NBA. The woman's league is on borrowed time unless i'm missing something substantial here and if I am please point it out to me but short of that I cant see the WNBA continue to exist unless the NBA is only stringing the woman's league along as political capital.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#2
You've been on this message board for eleven years, and your first-ever post in this sub-folder is a 25-minute hit piece on the league, just because it happened to come up in your YouTube feed? I mean, I'm not going to delete this, but you'll have to forgive me for not believing that you have any interest in engaging in a good-faith discussion about this.

If someone else is willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, that's cool.
 
#3
You've been on this message board for eleven years, and your first-ever post in this sub-folder is a 25-minute hit piece on the league, just because it happened to come up in your YouTube feed? I mean, I'm not going to delete this, but you'll have to forgive me for not believing that you have any interest in engaging in a good-faith discussion about this.

If someone else is willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, that's cool.
As a veteran member in good standing with the board i should have enough water under the bridge to start a thread being critical of anything as long there are facts to back it up. The WNBA would have failed long ago if it were to stand on its own if thats not a fact then show me otherwise. There is no market/demand for the WNBA my original question stands. How much longer should a league that loses millions of dollars and has yet to even turn a profit continue to exist? I also object to you changing the title of my post, Is it okay to talk about something a mod feels uncomfortable discussing or disagree's with?
 
#5
Well it was 2009 when Maloofs dumped the team, was sorry for the WNBA Players, the Sacramento fans and our town for loosing a sports franchise. I sorta wondered if Vivek might bring them back, but hell Vivek just dumped our Female Dance Team, so I don't see that happening.
As far as all the arguments in the video regarding low wages , the players should not expect to get more wages to play the game they love, when the team can not fill the stands and turn a profit as it is. But with that being said, I hope the WNBA hangs in there and works towards finding that road to profitability
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#6
As a veteran member in good standing with the board i should have enough water under the bridge to start a thread being critical of anything as long there are facts to back it up... I also object to you changing the title of my post, Is it okay to talk about something a mod feels uncomfortable discussing or disagree's with?
Slim sez: I'm not going to stop you from talking about this.
@upinsmoke sez: What, so I'm not allowed to talk about it?

wut?

Man, quit trying to play martyr. I already told you that you that I wasn't going to stop you, so this is just you grandstanding. But I'm also not going to pretend like a video that begins with a quote saying nobody watches the WNBA is an honest effort by someone trying to have an objective discussion. Buddy didn't create that video as part of an attempt to determine whether or not the WNBA is viable, he went into that with his mind already made up that it isn't, and just worked backwards from there.

As far as me changing the title of the thread, your objection is noted.


The WNBA would have failed long ago if it were to stand on its own if thats not a fact then show me otherwise.
I don't waste energy defending an activity I enjoy to people who wish that it didn't exist. If you were actually interested in having a good-faith discussion about the viability of the WNBA, you would have framed your question differently.

Like I said, though, if someone else wants to, they can knock themselves out. I don't intend to participate in this any further, but I'm not going to shut this down, as long as people can keep the invective down to a dull roar. I'm sure that "as a veteran member in good standing with the board," that's something that you can manage.
 
#7
Cowherd makes some good points here. The WNBA seems to me like some sort of PC movement to me thats the only way I can begin to understand why it still exists. The consumers have spoken loud and clear with their wallets there is no interest in woman's professional basketball and the facts back that up. On average the NBA takes a 10M hit every year they continue to operate the woman's league and they only own 70% of it. I can guarantee you that the NBA consumer picks up that tab.
 

Warhawk

The cake is a lie.
Staff member
#8
I can guarantee you that the NBA consumer picks up that tab.
More like the NBA TV deal. I sincerely doubt this is costing you a penny, even if you go to the games.

My wife, son, and I went to several Monarchs games and really enjoyed them. I wish they were still around - making money or no.
 
#9
More like the NBA TV deal. I sincerely doubt this is costing you a penny, even if you go to the games.

My wife, son, and I went to several Monarchs games and really enjoyed them. I wish they were still around - making money or no.
Well the consumer still ends up paying for that in the form of a cable bill. Broadcasting companies are forced to air WNBA games per the contract that air time ends up being a net negative the cost gets bundled into the bill.
 

Capt. Factorial

This Is Why We Can't Have Nice Things
Staff member
#10
Well the consumer still ends up paying for that in the form of a cable bill. Broadcasting companies are forced to air WNBA games per the contract that air time ends up being a net negative the cost gets bundled into the bill.
It seems pretty clear that the financials of the WNBA are not good. If the numbers reported here and elsewhere are correct, the league has been in business 22 years, is still not profitable, and has to be supported by the NBA to the tune of about $10M per year to remain running. Clearly the long-term existence of the WNBA is going to depend on one of three things: Increased profits, reduced costs, or the continuation of the support of the NBA.

I'm with you that far. I'm even with you so far as to say that if the NBA decides it is no longer worth making the financial investment in the WNBA that it currently does make, that the WNBA will have to sink or swim.

But I think it's a step too far to suggest that the NBA should not make that financial investment. It's their money, and they should do what they see fit with it. And while it might be true, complaining that this money ultimately comes from your cable bill is, dare I say, a pretty petty complaint. As of a few years ago, NBATV was available in over 53 million households, meaning that your share of supporting the WNBA via your cable bill comes up to less than 19 cents per year. Are you really so upset at the NBA propping up the WNBA that you're willing to cancel NBATV over those 19 cents? Somehow I don't imagine you are. But if you're not, then where are we going here with this discussion?
 
#13
I don’t think it’s going to fold anytime soon. I’m also not sure if the NBA minds giving the lifeline. They spend millions in other ways for public outreach and “NBA cares” stuff. So, If it’s really just part of a stubborn front for a progressive image or what not then the cost probably isn’t a big deal to them and a drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of things either way
 

Warhawk

The cake is a lie.
Staff member
#14
the league only has 12 teams and is on life support the only thing thats keeping the wnba from postponing the inevitable is the NBA's (costly) attempt to be "woke". Its time to come to terms and let her go they gave it their best shot.
So you are making the determination that the NBA should stop its support of the WNBA because a WNBA season costs them approximately the same as one NBA player on the mid-level exception, and in your mind they aren't getting a return on their investment? How do you know what they value the WNBA at and what returns they get aren't sufficient for their needs, goals, or wants?
 
#16
Yeah, I'm not sure why one would think the reason the NBA subsidizes the WNBA is to be"woke" or to maintain a progressive image. There are plenty of valid reasons to do so (that don't sound like anti-PC strawmen).
What are they?

The NBA is in business to make money and they've proven that they will do what it takes to get the biggest bang for their buck, even if that means they have to put a black eye on the game. So what's the end game for the WNBA, which isn't profitable and never will be?
 
#17
What are they?

The NBA is in business to make money and they've proven that they will do what it takes to get the biggest bang for their buck, even if that means they have to put a black eye on the game. So what's the end game for the WNBA, which isn't profitable and never will be?
A stab in the dark is if it is viewed as additional advertising for the NBA. Being inclusive to women is pretty hard to quantify the value of, but any avenues that attract the other half of the population to the sport, or makes it mildly more tolerable so women agree to attend or let the houshold tv be on basketball is a win.
Also makes basketball more attractive as a whole family pastime.

Everytbing always comes down to the bottom line.
 
#18
I don't fully understand what the point of this is.. Everyone knows the WNBA has been in the red for years, and the NBA picks up the tab. If the nba wanted to fold the wnba, they would have done it years ago. In this political climate, the nba would get lambasted if they just simply gave up on womens basketball. They have a small, yet loyal following and I can't imagine the operating costs are super high (being that a lot of the teams essentially play in junior college level gyms and the players generally make 40 to 60k per year) The wnba will continue to operate as usual, because its not about the money and never has been. Now if we start talking about wage equality, then there's a point to be made.
 
#19
What are they?

The NBA is in business to make money and they've proven that they will do what it takes to get the biggest bang for their buck, even if that means they have to put a black eye on the game. So what's the end game for the WNBA, which isn't profitable and never will be?
I don't know what their reasons are. I don't follow it that closely and I don't know that it's public knowledge anyway.

But if, as you say, the NBA has proven that they will do what it takes to get the biggest bang for the buck, isn't it likely that they consider this a worthy investment?
 
#20
My thought is that while the WNBA does technically lose money, it provides enough positives for the NBA to continue to subsidize it. One of the big things it does for the NBA is that is acts as a training ground for referees, coaches, and other personnel. It also potentially brings more female and LBGQ viewership to the NBA side. Not to mention, it would be a political nightmare for the NBA if they completely folded the league. My guess is the loss they take is a drop in the bucket compared to the intrinsics they get out of it.
 
#21
My thought is that while the WNBA does technically lose money, it provides enough positives for the NBA to continue to subsidize it. One of the big things it does for the NBA is that is acts as a training ground for referees, coaches, and other personnel. It also potentially brings more female and LBGQ viewership to the NBA side. Not to mention, it would be a political nightmare for the NBA if they completely folded the league. My guess is the loss they take is a drop in the bucket compared to the intrinsics they get out of it.
I feel this post. If nothing more, its positive PR for the NBA to continue the league and the $10 milly is a small drop.
 
#24
Please expand on this and go into as much detail as possible.
Not much detail is needed. Being that the league is in the red, raises for the players is not realistic. The product is not at the level of the nba, and therefore the players will not be paid at that level. It's the same issue I have with rapinoes comments about soccer. The womens world cup made around 73 million while the mens world cup brought in 4 billion. The women actually get a larger share of the earnings than the men do.
 
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