Interesting take....
- Thread starter KingKong
- Start date
Bull. First, I do not accuse people of not being "real fans" if they disagree with me. People can and do disagree with me all the time. What I do demand, however, if I'm going to continue to debate with someone is that they have a basis in fact for their opinions.
If you don't watch the games, you aren't going to be SEE as much as people who do. Just like I don't see as much by watching on TV as those who are actually in attendance. Should I get mad at Kingsgurl because she was able to see something IN PERSON that wasn't covered by a camera? If not, then why should you assume I'm picking on people if they aren't willing to accept that people who DO watch the games are able to give a different viewpoint and perspective than those who simply follow box scores or listen to ALP?
What you - and others who depend on media sources other than TV broadcasts - don't always know about is the things the commentators don't comment on...and there are a lot of those things. It's not your fault, but it's certainly not my fault either, that you may not know about something because you didn't SEE it. And simply because you didn't hear it commented upon doesn't mean it didn't happen.
What Kevin Martin ALWAYS brings to the court is hustle. The young man is always moving, gets up and down the court incredibly well, and is NOT afraid to take a charge (something I wish I could say about some of our starters).
If you don't watch the games, you aren't going to be SEE as much as people who do. Just like I don't see as much by watching on TV as those who are actually in attendance. Should I get mad at Kingsgurl because she was able to see something IN PERSON that wasn't covered by a camera? If not, then why should you assume I'm picking on people if they aren't willing to accept that people who DO watch the games are able to give a different viewpoint and perspective than those who simply follow box scores or listen to ALP?
What you - and others who depend on media sources other than TV broadcasts - don't always know about is the things the commentators don't comment on...and there are a lot of those things. It's not your fault, but it's certainly not my fault either, that you may not know about something because you didn't SEE it. And simply because you didn't hear it commented upon doesn't mean it didn't happen.
What Kevin Martin ALWAYS brings to the court is hustle. The young man is always moving, gets up and down the court incredibly well, and is NOT afraid to take a charge (something I wish I could say about some of our starters).
Hmm... KT is producing less than Songaila? Songaila is playing 16 minutes and is averaging all of 3.9 points and 2.6 rebounds. He's had the opportunity to start and has been a major disappointment. KT has been playing poorly (for him) and still managed to average 5.3 and 4.3 in 15 minutes. Not exactly the stuff of legends, but he's an improvement over Songaila.
The backcourt is in fine shape. Hart showed some real promise last night and he deserves some time to get acclimated. (Don't forget the horrific start Bobby Jackson got off to last year.) And I'm with VF21. If you can't watch the games then you're probably not going to appreciate Kevin Martin. He's making solid decisions, playing good defense and not trying to force things too mcuh. He's not spectacular, but he's solid and will hopefully get better.
The backcourt is in fine shape. Hart showed some real promise last night and he deserves some time to get acclimated. (Don't forget the horrific start Bobby Jackson got off to last year.) And I'm with VF21. If you can't watch the games then you're probably not going to appreciate Kevin Martin. He's making solid decisions, playing good defense and not trying to force things too mcuh. He's not spectacular, but he's solid and will hopefully get better.
I was in favor of the Webber trade with the caveat that we'll do something in the offseason with the pieces we got in return. Instead we stayed put and let players slip away for nothing, used our mid-level to plug a hole (albeit pretty effectively), and addressed none of our problems through signings.
No, you just assume that I don't see that and it never occurs to you that I do and still say he sucks. Mark Madsen has the same hustle. He sucks. Hustle is great but only gets you so much. Unless Martin has some conspiracy to only show his superhuman self when I'm not watching, I am comfortable with my assessment. It's possible that someone watching the same game will disagree with you. Get over yourself.
I know what you're saying and agree it's frustrating, I just think we traded our problems in the frontcourt for problems in the backcourt. We had great players at the 1 and 2/3 off the bench last year but were weak at the 4/5, now we have strong (but so far underachieving) players at the 4/5 and we're (so far) weaker at the 1 and 2/3.
If Hart and Martin come along and KT and Skinner play like they can then things will be fine. But I don't blame you for being skeptical.
If Hart and Martin come along and KT and Skinner play like they can then things will be fine. But I don't blame you for being skeptical.
I meant Songaila of last year when he played for us. But, ok I'll give you that. I want someone taller in any case. I watched 2 games. I can watch every single one if I wanted to. I have the option. We can do better than Martin with the money we had. Hell, Evans was better from what I saw on the court.
T
I'll give Martin hussle points, but thats about it. He doesn't look as lost as last year, but he still makes some dumb mistakes. I don't know if its his confidence or what, but I've seen him pass up a few WIDE OPEN THREES. Either he hesitates or just passes the ball off. Hopefully, for the sake of the team, he improves rapidly.
At the worst I think it's a wash, and yeah, I think they've gotten slightly better. I think people have forgotten just how weak the Kings were up front at the beginning of last year. Songaila was a terrible rebounder and a poor defender, and he was basically the only guy coming off the bench. SAR gives up some size and is not quite the rebounder that Webber is, but he's a mobile help defender and a solid post defender. Miller is not the Miller of last year, which accounts for a lot of the rebounding deficiencies, but I'm hoping he'll recover. Skinner is an improvement over Ostertag in quickness and rebounding. And KT is a big improvement in defense and rebounding over Songaila. So overall, yes, even though the rebounding has suffered I think the defense is better. If Miller starts rebounding more I think it will be a clearer improvement.
P.S. It's worth noting that as badly as the Kings have played this year the opposing field goal percentage is still an improvement over last year.
P.S. It's worth noting that as badly as the Kings have played this year the opposing field goal percentage is still an improvement over last year.
tsa - Martin is a work in progress, just as Francisco Garcia is - all the hype not withstanding.
Both make a lot of mistakes, but hopefully BOTH will learn from those mistakes because they do have a lot going for them. If people don't believe that, fine... no skin off my nose.
I know what I see, both on TV and at the games and before them. Apparently my opinion isn't enough for Zyphen and that's cool. I just don't like seeing ANY player on the Kings bashed. Criticizing Martin is perfectly valid; Bricklayer has done a lot of it as have a lot of others. The blanket statements about dislike, however, just don't sit well. He's part of our team, just like Peja, just like Corliss, just like Sampson. Bashing our own just doesn't feel right...
But you and I have managed to butt heads innumerable times over this and we still exchange comments/opinions.
Peace to all...
Both make a lot of mistakes, but hopefully BOTH will learn from those mistakes because they do have a lot going for them. If people don't believe that, fine... no skin off my nose.
I know what I see, both on TV and at the games and before them. Apparently my opinion isn't enough for Zyphen and that's cool. I just don't like seeing ANY player on the Kings bashed. Criticizing Martin is perfectly valid; Bricklayer has done a lot of it as have a lot of others. The blanket statements about dislike, however, just don't sit well. He's part of our team, just like Peja, just like Corliss, just like Sampson. Bashing our own just doesn't feel right...
But you and I have managed to butt heads innumerable times over this and we still exchange comments/opinions.
Peace to all...
VF21 said:
tsa - Martin is a work in progress, just as Francisco Garcia is - all the hype not withstanding.
Both make a lot of mistakes, but hopefully BOTH will learn from those mistakes because they do have a lot going for them. If people don't believe that, fine... no skin off my nose.
I know what I see, both on TV and at the games and before them. Apparently my opinion isn't enough for Zyphen and that's cool. I just don't like seeing ANY player on the Kings bashed. Criticizing Martin is perfectly valid; Bricklayer has done a lot of it as have a lot of others. The blanket statements about dislike, however, just don't sit well. He's part of our team, just like Peja, just like Corliss, just like Sampson. Bashing our own just doesn't feel right...
But you and I have managed to butt heads innumerable times over this and we still exchange comments/opinions.
Peace to all...
Both make a lot of mistakes, but hopefully BOTH will learn from those mistakes because they do have a lot going for them. If people don't believe that, fine... no skin off my nose.
I know what I see, both on TV and at the games and before them. Apparently my opinion isn't enough for Zyphen and that's cool. I just don't like seeing ANY player on the Kings bashed. Criticizing Martin is perfectly valid; Bricklayer has done a lot of it as have a lot of others. The blanket statements about dislike, however, just don't sit well. He's part of our team, just like Peja, just like Corliss, just like Sampson. Bashing our own just doesn't feel right...
But you and I have managed to butt heads innumerable times over this and we still exchange comments/opinions.
Peace to all...
Anyways, I guess my point was that we blew our chance in the offseason and every day that passes becomes diminishing returns on whatever grand deal that will hopefully come in the future. It's harder to get quality trades mid-season and we can't implant doubt about the worth of our scrubs. I think the trade is so far a failure and its salveagability (hmm, probably not a word) lessens in value by the week. We're dependent on some team blowing up to get something good during the season. I think we'll have to wait to get that stud (*cough* Paul Pierce *cough*) next offseason or by showcasing scrubs at the expense of the team. Superstars demanding trades isn't that frequent an occurence.
I like our chances with Webber through one more year than the 3 guys we got who somehow survived the offseason. It's like we used a "late day" basically (college analogy). We lost a letter grade and the most we can get now is a "B" instead of that "A" if we turned in our stuff in the summer.
I like our chances with Webber through one more year than the 3 guys we got who somehow survived the offseason. It's like we used a "late day" basically (college analogy). We lost a letter grade and the most we can get now is a "B" instead of that "A" if we turned in our stuff in the summer.
Its my standard take, but nonetheless, if we end up keeping the Philly three, its a dumbass move. Sorry. Just fact. A **** up. The ONLY explanation I can accept where its not a dumbass move involves actually using our "flexible pieces" to bring in better/more appropriate talent/contracts, and to do it in the relatively near future. At the end of next season Webber will be a huge ending contract, and hence a golden trading piece. Regardless of whether he can still play or not at that point, the contract alone could bring back more than the Philly three (all THREE of which had their OWN notoriously bad contracts -- we swapped one bad deal fro three). So the window for cashing in on the deal is less than 2 years now, and in the meantime we are wondering around with far less talneted pieces putting up much smaller numbers for the same $$$.
I've made the point that making the same Bonzi move this current lineup could be Miller, Webb, Peja, Bonzi, Bibby just as easily as Miller, SAR, Webb, Peja, Bonzi, Bibby, and then we would still have had our full midlevel to offer SAR, Cat (as a scoring 6th man) or any one of the other FAs out there. If you could have landed SAR or kept Cat to replace Bobby, the product on the floor would be BETTER right now, and would only have to remain so until the end of next season in order to make this trade a mistake. The ONLY way we benefit from that move is by using some theoretical contractural flexibility and moving the current pieces for better players. Otherwise we are getting TERRIBLE value on the $18 mil of Webb's contract, have solved none of the contractural issues, and have actually taken a step back in talent.
2 years. That's it for making this deal make sense.
I've made the point that making the same Bonzi move this current lineup could be Miller, Webb, Peja, Bonzi, Bibby just as easily as Miller, SAR, Webb, Peja, Bonzi, Bibby, and then we would still have had our full midlevel to offer SAR, Cat (as a scoring 6th man) or any one of the other FAs out there. If you could have landed SAR or kept Cat to replace Bobby, the product on the floor would be BETTER right now, and would only have to remain so until the end of next season in order to make this trade a mistake. The ONLY way we benefit from that move is by using some theoretical contractural flexibility and moving the current pieces for better players. Otherwise we are getting TERRIBLE value on the $18 mil of Webb's contract, have solved none of the contractural issues, and have actually taken a step back in talent.
2 years. That's it for making this deal make sense.
I knew we got the short end of that deal from the beginning. You can't just trade all-star caliber talent in a garbage trade, not get an all-star in return, and not get burnt for it. I wish we kept Webber, cuz he was still good, and in his "turnaround" because of his injury, he was only getting better.
Webber is shooting 43% for the season. That is not good. Still a great player, and of course we got the short end of the stick talent wise.
I think this is a dumb issue. If the Sixers lose 5 in a row the reports are going to be, "Goeff Petrie is a genious for unloading Chris Webber!".
Give me a break.
I think this is a dumb issue. If the Sixers lose 5 in a row the reports are going to be, "Goeff Petrie is a genious for unloading Chris Webber!".
Give me a break.
43% shooting AND averaging close to 20/10/5 (I didn't check so I suspect the assist number might be lower, considering his different role in Cheeks' offense). The shooting % alone doesn't mean squat. You need to consider it within the whole scheme of things...
It's not a dumb issue. Let's say you have a race horse, an expensive race horse. He breaks his leg and MANY say he'll never run again. Your trainer says to have faith. You wait for him to partially heal and then enter him in some races. He doesn't win but he does pretty well. Still, he's a very expensive horse. So, you decide to get rid of him - telling yourself it's for the best, that he's washed up anyway and that you'll be lucky to break even on his cost.
The next year, the horse is fully healed and he starts winning races. Lots of races. Pretty soon, he's back to winning the same number of races he did before. Some people look at you and shake their heads, wondering why you didn't have a little more faith and patience...
The subject isn't going to go away for a very long time, if ever. And people are forever going to argue/debate/discuss about what really led to the trade, who made the ultimate decision to pull the trigger, and whether or not they've done any second guessing about it.
We - the fans - will most likely never know the whole story.
It's not a dumb issue. Let's say you have a race horse, an expensive race horse. He breaks his leg and MANY say he'll never run again. Your trainer says to have faith. You wait for him to partially heal and then enter him in some races. He doesn't win but he does pretty well. Still, he's a very expensive horse. So, you decide to get rid of him - telling yourself it's for the best, that he's washed up anyway and that you'll be lucky to break even on his cost.
The next year, the horse is fully healed and he starts winning races. Lots of races. Pretty soon, he's back to winning the same number of races he did before. Some people look at you and shake their heads, wondering why you didn't have a little more faith and patience...
The subject isn't going to go away for a very long time, if ever. And people are forever going to argue/debate/discuss about what really led to the trade, who made the ultimate decision to pull the trigger, and whether or not they've done any second guessing about it.
We - the fans - will most likely never know the whole story.
The knock on Webber (in the media, fans, etc.) hasn't been that he could get his 20 and 10 but that in the process he had to take too many shots to do it.
Here is an interesting quote from Jerry Reynolds book from Hoopshype.com and our answer as to why he was traded!
http://www.hoopshype.com/articles/kings_reynolds.htm
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Part 1
When you make major roster changes, you cross your fingers and hope that everything works for the best. Our only hope to remain an elite team last season was for everything to break just right. Unfortunately, it didn’t take long to realize that Chris Webber wasn’t back to 100 percent and might never be, and while Doug still gave exceptional effort, the mileage was taking its toll. We were winning games, but not quite as easily. We didn’t have the same depth. We were still a good team, but not a legitimate contender.
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] From a personal standpoint, it’s very difficult to make the decision that it’s time to shake up the team. You grow to like players and care about them. You know your fans have an attachment – particularly in Sacramento. And, while it’s sometimes forgotten, players are people, too. They like to know they’re valued by a team, and a trade can mess with their lives and psyches. Pro basketball is a business, true, but there’s a relatively small group involved – front office, coaches, and players – and we’re all in it together. So you don’t make big trades lightly.
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]That being said, we’d already gone through the gut-wrenching process of parting with Vlade, and that helped steel us to make the next logical moves. The trick for Geoff Petrie was to make deals that allowed us to move forward while continuing to win. The trick for Rick Adelman, which was even more difficult, was to integrate new players into an unfamiliar system while maintaining that high level of play. From a coaching standpoint, it’s extremely difficult to have the team churned up – to lose guys who have been key players on big-time winners and not to have much of a fall-off. Rick never received the credit he deserved for winning 50 games last year with a squad that not only changed personnel and styles, but also had major injuries.
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] We sent Doug Christie to Orlando on January 10, 2005, for shooting guard Cuttino Mobley and forward Michael Bradley. Geoff saw the opportunity to get a younger player with a smaller contract. Cuttino came in and helped us win a couple of games right off the bat, which allowed our players and fans to accept him more readily than they otherwise might have. He’s a very different kind of player than Doug – more offensive-oriented. There were times when Cuttino didn’t look like the ideal fit for us, but at the same time, he was on the court. Doug only played 21 games for Orlando before shutting it down for the season.
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] There was a rumor making the rounds that we traded Doug in part because he was a bit eccentric. People made a big deal about his hand signals to his wife, Jackie, during games and how they supposedly were talking to television people about doing a reality show. The trade was made strictly for basketball and financial reasons: Doug was an older player who had lost a step and is due $8 million this season. We’d become accustomed to Doug’s somewhat different ways, and everyone on the team liked him. If he wasn’t such a selfless teammate, maybe you’d have heard some grumblings, but no one ever put him down. As for the reality show, there are only 18 billion of them on these days, so who cares?
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] If Chris Webber had snapped back into form and Bobby Jackson had been healthy, would we have made the Christie trade? I’d guess no, because we’d have probably felt we could make a run at the championship. But once we all agreed that we probably weren’t going to need to have our ring fingers measured, we decided to try to rebuild on the fly – get younger, deeper, and better prepared to win in the future without taking a major step backwards.[/FONT]
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Here is an interesting quote from Jerry Reynolds book from Hoopshype.com and our answer as to why he was traded!
http://www.hoopshype.com/articles/kings_reynolds.htm
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Part 1
When you make major roster changes, you cross your fingers and hope that everything works for the best. Our only hope to remain an elite team last season was for everything to break just right. Unfortunately, it didn’t take long to realize that Chris Webber wasn’t back to 100 percent and might never be, and while Doug still gave exceptional effort, the mileage was taking its toll. We were winning games, but not quite as easily. We didn’t have the same depth. We were still a good team, but not a legitimate contender.
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] From a personal standpoint, it’s very difficult to make the decision that it’s time to shake up the team. You grow to like players and care about them. You know your fans have an attachment – particularly in Sacramento. And, while it’s sometimes forgotten, players are people, too. They like to know they’re valued by a team, and a trade can mess with their lives and psyches. Pro basketball is a business, true, but there’s a relatively small group involved – front office, coaches, and players – and we’re all in it together. So you don’t make big trades lightly.
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]That being said, we’d already gone through the gut-wrenching process of parting with Vlade, and that helped steel us to make the next logical moves. The trick for Geoff Petrie was to make deals that allowed us to move forward while continuing to win. The trick for Rick Adelman, which was even more difficult, was to integrate new players into an unfamiliar system while maintaining that high level of play. From a coaching standpoint, it’s extremely difficult to have the team churned up – to lose guys who have been key players on big-time winners and not to have much of a fall-off. Rick never received the credit he deserved for winning 50 games last year with a squad that not only changed personnel and styles, but also had major injuries.
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] We sent Doug Christie to Orlando on January 10, 2005, for shooting guard Cuttino Mobley and forward Michael Bradley. Geoff saw the opportunity to get a younger player with a smaller contract. Cuttino came in and helped us win a couple of games right off the bat, which allowed our players and fans to accept him more readily than they otherwise might have. He’s a very different kind of player than Doug – more offensive-oriented. There were times when Cuttino didn’t look like the ideal fit for us, but at the same time, he was on the court. Doug only played 21 games for Orlando before shutting it down for the season.
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] There was a rumor making the rounds that we traded Doug in part because he was a bit eccentric. People made a big deal about his hand signals to his wife, Jackie, during games and how they supposedly were talking to television people about doing a reality show. The trade was made strictly for basketball and financial reasons: Doug was an older player who had lost a step and is due $8 million this season. We’d become accustomed to Doug’s somewhat different ways, and everyone on the team liked him. If he wasn’t such a selfless teammate, maybe you’d have heard some grumblings, but no one ever put him down. As for the reality show, there are only 18 billion of them on these days, so who cares?
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] If Chris Webber had snapped back into form and Bobby Jackson had been healthy, would we have made the Christie trade? I’d guess no, because we’d have probably felt we could make a run at the championship. But once we all agreed that we probably weren’t going to need to have our ring fingers measured, we decided to try to rebuild on the fly – get younger, deeper, and better prepared to win in the future without taking a major step backwards.[/FONT]
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Part 2
With that in mind – going back to the end of the 2003-04 season – Rick couldn’t have handled things any better than he did. If he had done things differently at any step of the way, we wouldn’t have been able to trade Chris. If Rick had used C-Webb as a reserve or limited his minutes as a starter – not allowing him to put up the numbers he did – C-Webb wouldn’t be in Philadelphia today. We’d still have a Chris Webber who isn’t quite Chris Webber anymore at $20 million per season.
[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] When you’re paying anybody – Shaq, Kobe, Tracy McGrady, Tim Duncan, whoever – a superstar salary, one that takes up 30 or 40 percent of your salary cap, you have to have a major star. If you feel that that’s changed, that the player isn’t a star anymore, you have to do something. We’ve never had a player of Chris’s caliber, and who knows when or if we’ll have one again? He was the key guy to all the success we had. At the same time, if he got hurt again or couldn’t bounce back to an All-Star level, we’d be in deep trouble – totally hamstrung under the salary cap rules.[/FONT]
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]From our viewpoint, Chris, for all his contributions, couldn’t play at the same level going forward, and we needed to get out from under that contract and bring in some players. Chris didn’t have the lift or lateral movement he once had. Before the knee injury, C-Webb was one of those magnificent athletes who could run easily, was a quick and strong jumper, and could go through guys around the basket.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Some people were surprised that we’d trade C-Webb, or trade him when we did. Others were surprised that we could trade him. Most of the national media thought it was a home run for Philly. They saw C-Webb as he used to be and asked, “Why would the Kings trade one of the five or six best players in the world?” Well, the Kings wouldn’t have, and didn’t. Geoff Petrie had been looking into making the deal for some time, but quite honestly, there weren’t many potential trades out there for a guy with bad wheels and a huge contract. We weren’t mulling over 17 offers. Geoff made the best deal he could. Most basketball people saw that Chris was damaged goods.
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Maybe C-Webb can, by some miracle, get back to that superstar status in the future. I’m rooting for him. But none of the guys who have had the kind of knee microfracture surgery that Chris had – Penny Hardaway, Allan Houston, whomever – have come all the way back. Chris has come back better than any of those guys, and he’s still a good player. That’s where some of the Webber-haters have been unfair: He has worked hard and deserves credit. Chris has adapted his game. He’s made himself into a better shooter – almost to a fault. He sometimes settles for the outside shot because it’s harder for him to go inside. I’m not putting him down: Larry Bird did the same thing after he started getting injured. Larry started taking more 20 footers because they were the best shot he could get. Chris was still getting his 20 points, but he was taking more shots – and from longer range – to get them. Three years ago, he’d get 22 points and 11 rebounds in his sleep.[/FONT]
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Things change due to age, injuries, whatever. Probably the best example is Michael Jordan coming back the second time. Michael was still really good, but he wasn’t the best player in the world by any stretch. The game was harder for him. He still cared, and he still wanted to be the best in the world; he just couldn’t be. Paul Newman’s still a great actor, but he can’t play Cool Hand Luke anymore. He can’t be a leading man anymore. Can C-Webb? Time will tell.[/FONT]
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Chris’s evolution from inside to outside player was a big factor for us, because we really didn’t have another low-post threat. We hoped that Chris could come back and establish that for us, but he just didn’t have the legs under him and couldn’t do it consistently. We’ve seen that many times with big guys who are injured.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In exchange for Chris, we got three guys – Brian Skinner, Kenny Thomas, and Corliss Williamson – who are players. Whether we keep them all or not, they all have value around the league. We have more flexibility as well as the chance to win just as many games by playing a little differently. If the Philly deal hadn’t gone through, there might not have been a trade, period.[/FONT]
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Much was made of the dynamic between Peja and Chris. Without naming names, C-Webb criticized some of his teammates after the Minnesota series, and many people assumed that Peja was his main target. So what if Peja was the target? A guy was disappointed in losing and popped off – happens all the time. The media wanted to make it out as if there was a Peja clique and a Webber clique in the locker room, portraying it as an either/or situation. That simply wasn’t the case.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Peja and Chris always liked each other. Chris’s game didn’t fit Peja’s as well as Vlade’s did, and I’m not sure exactly what you do about that. I thought, at the start of last season, that Chris went out of his way to find Peja. Because he’s not a one-on-one guy, Peja needs guys to find him, and Vlade was good at that. Chris was, too, although he might not have found Peja as often as Vlade. That wasn’t a matter of dislike, though. People have a tendency to attach personalities to it when it’s really about the way guys play.[/FONT]
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The difference between Vlade and Chris was that Vlade really did look to make the pass first. That was his instinct. Whether he was playing with Magic Johnson or Larry Johnson or Peja, Vlade was a facilitator. While Chris is a very good passer, his first instinct is to score. He is used to being the guy the team looks for, with good reason. That’s probably why he had some problems with Allen Iverson last year. Now, Chris probably needs to make some changes because he can’t do some of the things he once could, plus he doesn’t have the ball in his hands, and it’s not going to be there nearly as often.[/FONT]
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Essentially, what Geoff did with the C-Webb trade was take a big contract and break it into smaller pieces. We certainly don’t have any problem keeping any or all of the three guys we got – perhaps in different roles than they had at the end of last season – and all three are tradable. Kenny Thomas has been a double-double guy – a starter on some good teams. Corliss Williamson was the Sixth Man of the Year a couple of seasons ago. Brian Skinner was a starting center in Milwaukee on a playoff team. The guys we got aren’t major stars, but they’re also not chopped liver.[/FONT]
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After the C-Webb trade, we won two straight road games, beating the 76ers in C-Webb’s Philly debut and then a good Washington team. But faster than you can say “delusions of grandeur,” fate once again kicked us in the shins. Brad Miller broke his leg at the end of the Washington game. We already were without Bobby Jackson, who was recovering from a torn ligament in his left wrist. The combination of remaking the team and playing without two major guys down the stretch was asking a lot. We gimped into the playoffs with a 14-11 record after Brad’s injury. At least we managed to win 50 games for the fifth straight season.[/FONT]
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Part 2
With that in mind – going back to the end of the 2003-04 season – Rick couldn’t have handled things any better than he did. If he had done things differently at any step of the way, we wouldn’t have been able to trade Chris. If Rick had used C-Webb as a reserve or limited his minutes as a starter – not allowing him to put up the numbers he did – C-Webb wouldn’t be in Philadelphia today. We’d still have a Chris Webber who isn’t quite Chris Webber anymore at $20 million per season.
[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] When you’re paying anybody – Shaq, Kobe, Tracy McGrady, Tim Duncan, whoever – a superstar salary, one that takes up 30 or 40 percent of your salary cap, you have to have a major star. If you feel that that’s changed, that the player isn’t a star anymore, you have to do something. We’ve never had a player of Chris’s caliber, and who knows when or if we’ll have one again? He was the key guy to all the success we had. At the same time, if he got hurt again or couldn’t bounce back to an All-Star level, we’d be in deep trouble – totally hamstrung under the salary cap rules.[/FONT]
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]From our viewpoint, Chris, for all his contributions, couldn’t play at the same level going forward, and we needed to get out from under that contract and bring in some players. Chris didn’t have the lift or lateral movement he once had. Before the knee injury, C-Webb was one of those magnificent athletes who could run easily, was a quick and strong jumper, and could go through guys around the basket.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Some people were surprised that we’d trade C-Webb, or trade him when we did. Others were surprised that we could trade him. Most of the national media thought it was a home run for Philly. They saw C-Webb as he used to be and asked, “Why would the Kings trade one of the five or six best players in the world?” Well, the Kings wouldn’t have, and didn’t. Geoff Petrie had been looking into making the deal for some time, but quite honestly, there weren’t many potential trades out there for a guy with bad wheels and a huge contract. We weren’t mulling over 17 offers. Geoff made the best deal he could. Most basketball people saw that Chris was damaged goods.
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Maybe C-Webb can, by some miracle, get back to that superstar status in the future. I’m rooting for him. But none of the guys who have had the kind of knee microfracture surgery that Chris had – Penny Hardaway, Allan Houston, whomever – have come all the way back. Chris has come back better than any of those guys, and he’s still a good player. That’s where some of the Webber-haters have been unfair: He has worked hard and deserves credit. Chris has adapted his game. He’s made himself into a better shooter – almost to a fault. He sometimes settles for the outside shot because it’s harder for him to go inside. I’m not putting him down: Larry Bird did the same thing after he started getting injured. Larry started taking more 20 footers because they were the best shot he could get. Chris was still getting his 20 points, but he was taking more shots – and from longer range – to get them. Three years ago, he’d get 22 points and 11 rebounds in his sleep.[/FONT]
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Things change due to age, injuries, whatever. Probably the best example is Michael Jordan coming back the second time. Michael was still really good, but he wasn’t the best player in the world by any stretch. The game was harder for him. He still cared, and he still wanted to be the best in the world; he just couldn’t be. Paul Newman’s still a great actor, but he can’t play Cool Hand Luke anymore. He can’t be a leading man anymore. Can C-Webb? Time will tell.[/FONT]
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Chris’s evolution from inside to outside player was a big factor for us, because we really didn’t have another low-post threat. We hoped that Chris could come back and establish that for us, but he just didn’t have the legs under him and couldn’t do it consistently. We’ve seen that many times with big guys who are injured.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In exchange for Chris, we got three guys – Brian Skinner, Kenny Thomas, and Corliss Williamson – who are players. Whether we keep them all or not, they all have value around the league. We have more flexibility as well as the chance to win just as many games by playing a little differently. If the Philly deal hadn’t gone through, there might not have been a trade, period.[/FONT]
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Much was made of the dynamic between Peja and Chris. Without naming names, C-Webb criticized some of his teammates after the Minnesota series, and many people assumed that Peja was his main target. So what if Peja was the target? A guy was disappointed in losing and popped off – happens all the time. The media wanted to make it out as if there was a Peja clique and a Webber clique in the locker room, portraying it as an either/or situation. That simply wasn’t the case.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Peja and Chris always liked each other. Chris’s game didn’t fit Peja’s as well as Vlade’s did, and I’m not sure exactly what you do about that. I thought, at the start of last season, that Chris went out of his way to find Peja. Because he’s not a one-on-one guy, Peja needs guys to find him, and Vlade was good at that. Chris was, too, although he might not have found Peja as often as Vlade. That wasn’t a matter of dislike, though. People have a tendency to attach personalities to it when it’s really about the way guys play.[/FONT]
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The difference between Vlade and Chris was that Vlade really did look to make the pass first. That was his instinct. Whether he was playing with Magic Johnson or Larry Johnson or Peja, Vlade was a facilitator. While Chris is a very good passer, his first instinct is to score. He is used to being the guy the team looks for, with good reason. That’s probably why he had some problems with Allen Iverson last year. Now, Chris probably needs to make some changes because he can’t do some of the things he once could, plus he doesn’t have the ball in his hands, and it’s not going to be there nearly as often.[/FONT]
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Essentially, what Geoff did with the C-Webb trade was take a big contract and break it into smaller pieces. We certainly don’t have any problem keeping any or all of the three guys we got – perhaps in different roles than they had at the end of last season – and all three are tradable. Kenny Thomas has been a double-double guy – a starter on some good teams. Corliss Williamson was the Sixth Man of the Year a couple of seasons ago. Brian Skinner was a starting center in Milwaukee on a playoff team. The guys we got aren’t major stars, but they’re also not chopped liver.[/FONT]
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After the C-Webb trade, we won two straight road games, beating the 76ers in C-Webb’s Philly debut and then a good Washington team. But faster than you can say “delusions of grandeur,” fate once again kicked us in the shins. Brad Miller broke his leg at the end of the Washington game. We already were without Bobby Jackson, who was recovering from a torn ligament in his left wrist. The combination of remaking the team and playing without two major guys down the stretch was asking a lot. We gimped into the playoffs with a 14-11 record after Brad’s injury. At least we managed to win 50 games for the fifth straight season.[/FONT]
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Part 3
Brad came back for the first round of the playoffs against Seattle, but he wasn’t the same guy coming off a broken leg. Not many players would even have tried to come back that quickly. Brad was able to play pretty close to normal on offense, but he wasn’t close when it came to defense and rebounding. He wasn’t able to react as well, which is perfectly understandable. Defensively, you’re reacting to the other guy. Rebounding, you’re reacting to the ball. Offensively, you can kind of plan things out and control things more, so Brad could be more effective that way.[/FONT]
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The Sonics took us out in five games, which, given the circumstances, shouldn’t have come as a total shock. For those out there who have questioned Peja Stojakovic’s toughness in the playoffs, it should be noted that he led us in scoring in three of the games, including 38 points in the last one. If, like some of the talk show hosts seem to think, anything less than a championship is a failure, I guess we failed. Of course, by that standard, it’s very difficult to be a success. If that’s the only gauge, then any talk show host who doesn’t have the highest-rated show in America is a failure, too, right?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] When we first became good, our only goal was to continue to be good. Nowadays, a 50-win season can be a disappointment. I guess that’s a compliment, in a way. If we’d have only won 49 this year, people might have come to Arco Arena with tar and feathers. That’s fair; it’s the way it is. But look what happened last season with the Lakers and Timberwolves, the two Western Conference finalists from 2003-2004: Neither team made the playoffs. There’s nothing unusual about a significant drop-off when things change. Fortunately, it didn’t happen to us. That in itself is significant, and it bodes well for the future.[/FONT]
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Jerry Reynolds serves as director of player personnel and television analyst for the Sacramento Kings. A longtime college coach, Reynolds joined the team's staff when the Kings moved from Kansas City to Sacramento in 1985 as an assistant coach to Phil Johnson. After coaching the team himself for a year, he served as an assistant to Bill Russell. He replaced Russell as head coach before moving into the Kings’ front office in 1988. Don Drysdale covered the Sacramento Kings from their arrival in Sacramento in 1985 until 1994 for the Sacramento Union. He also worked for the Marin Independent Journal and the Oakland Tribune and has written about basketball for numerous magazines[/FONT]
Part 3
Brad came back for the first round of the playoffs against Seattle, but he wasn’t the same guy coming off a broken leg. Not many players would even have tried to come back that quickly. Brad was able to play pretty close to normal on offense, but he wasn’t close when it came to defense and rebounding. He wasn’t able to react as well, which is perfectly understandable. Defensively, you’re reacting to the other guy. Rebounding, you’re reacting to the ball. Offensively, you can kind of plan things out and control things more, so Brad could be more effective that way.[/FONT]
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The Sonics took us out in five games, which, given the circumstances, shouldn’t have come as a total shock. For those out there who have questioned Peja Stojakovic’s toughness in the playoffs, it should be noted that he led us in scoring in three of the games, including 38 points in the last one. If, like some of the talk show hosts seem to think, anything less than a championship is a failure, I guess we failed. Of course, by that standard, it’s very difficult to be a success. If that’s the only gauge, then any talk show host who doesn’t have the highest-rated show in America is a failure, too, right?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] When we first became good, our only goal was to continue to be good. Nowadays, a 50-win season can be a disappointment. I guess that’s a compliment, in a way. If we’d have only won 49 this year, people might have come to Arco Arena with tar and feathers. That’s fair; it’s the way it is. But look what happened last season with the Lakers and Timberwolves, the two Western Conference finalists from 2003-2004: Neither team made the playoffs. There’s nothing unusual about a significant drop-off when things change. Fortunately, it didn’t happen to us. That in itself is significant, and it bodes well for the future.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
Jerry Reynolds serves as director of player personnel and television analyst for the Sacramento Kings. A longtime college coach, Reynolds joined the team's staff when the Kings moved from Kansas City to Sacramento in 1985 as an assistant coach to Phil Johnson. After coaching the team himself for a year, he served as an assistant to Bill Russell. He replaced Russell as head coach before moving into the Kings’ front office in 1988. Don Drysdale covered the Sacramento Kings from their arrival in Sacramento in 1985 until 1994 for the Sacramento Union. He also worked for the Marin Independent Journal and the Oakland Tribune and has written about basketball for numerous magazines[/FONT]
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The trade is something that had to happen. We either started rebuilding now or later. I say be proactive instead of doing it when the wheels are falling off. No one said webber couldn't shoot. He's just not as mobile, and he is at times even uncoachable as Rick Adelman eluded to last season. He does what he wants.
He's putting up great numbers, but what about next week, or the week after that. You're always on the edge of your seat hoping he doesn't come down the wrong way on his leg. All it will take is one time.
He's a good player, great passer, great hands, really nice elbow jumper. But, we had to start rebuilding.
He's putting up great numbers, but what about next week, or the week after that. You're always on the edge of your seat hoping he doesn't come down the wrong way on his leg. All it will take is one time.
He's a good player, great passer, great hands, really nice elbow jumper. But, we had to start rebuilding.