Insider Article for 11/11/04

[Diabeticwonder]

Taking on a guy like Artest would be a huge risk, but like someone previously said in this thread, I would rather have a headcase like Artest than a quitter, if in fact the things said about Peja are true. As far as taking on Artest and that messing up the entire franchise I just don't see it. If Artest were to come here and put up the same numbers and productivity here as he has in Indy and if he was a headache for us then surely there would be other takers out there with the mindset that a change of environement would suit him best. If Peja continues his slump and if the things said about him are true then there is no reason to hold onto him until next summer. Even if Peja had not asked for the trade, it would be impossible for the Kings to resign him after next season without getting rid of either Webb, Bibby, or Miller ...those three alone will eat up close to 43 mil two seasons from now.

 

[BigWaxer]

The only caveat would be Artest's past actions, but it might be worth the risk.

And considering the risk Petrie took when he drafted JWill and Signed Webb well... They weren't exactly boy scouts before they came here.

 

[Diabeticwonder]

It's well worth the risk if Peja continues at the same pace. 20 teams passed on Randy Moss before he was taken 21st by Minny solely because of his reputation. Sure, he's proven that he's not the best character guy to have on a team, but he's worth the headache. I think the same thing may be true with Ron Artest if he were to come here. His style of play would be contagious and more Kings not named Maurice Evans would be diving on the floor for loose balls and more guys would be focusing on D than ever before.

 

[LPKingsFan]

It's well worth the risk if Peja continues at the same pace. 20 teams passed on Randy Moss before he was taken 21st by Minny solely because of his reputation. Sure, he's proven that he's not the best character guy to have on a team, but he's worth the headache. I think the same thing may be true with Ron Artest if he were to come here. His style of play would be contagious and more Kings not named Maurice Evans would be diving on the floor for loose balls and more guys would be focusing on D than ever before.

I like this, though I'll admit Artest was a huge risk. Remember how the Kings collective D improve once Doug and Bobby came on board? You noticed players hustling more, clapping in shooters' faces, defense was contaigious (physical limitations--Bibby--not included). Now Doug and Bobby are hampered by injuries and the collective D is atrocious. Think about what bringing Artest in would do.

I'm not all for this idea, mind you, just presenting another side of the argument.

 

[VF21]

ugh, is this a credible article?

It's ESPN Insider. Take it for whatever you feel it's worth. I don't subscribe to it because I think it's the biggest rip-off on the Internet sportswise, and that's saying something...

Bottom line? This could all be moot. Artest's rap album is gonna break all kinds of records and he'll hang up his b-ball shoes for some saggy pants, over-sized football jersey and MORE bling, hit the concert circuit, and show up at ARCO - as the opening act for some other rap group.

And, quite frankly, I'm down with it.

 

[Andriod_KiNg]

Ok, but if Peja is upset becasue Vlade left, becasue his security blanket is gone, then he isn't all right up there. The guy is 27 years old, married and with a kid, he's got to be more grown up than that.

Yea , a grown man crying because his friend left, its a buisness, its sad to see Peja going down like this.

 

[Vlad]

I dunno...is there such a thing as Serbian rap?

I've heard it before. It's a perfect blend of horrible and interesting.

 

[piksi]

I dunno...is there such a thing as Serbian rap?

Yes there is and yes it sucks

 

[BigWaxer]

It's ESPN Insider. Take it for whatever you feel it's worth. I don't subscribe to it because I think it's the biggest rip-off on the Internet sportswise, and that's saying something...

Bottom line? This could all be moot. Artest's rap album is gonna break all kinds of records and he'll hang up his b-ball shoes for some saggy pants, over-sized football jersey and MORE bling, hit the concert circuit, and show up at ARCO - as the opening act for some other rap group.

And, quite frankly, I'm down with it.

Grant opened up today saying that article was all fiction and went over a few points. I don't know if he talked about Bibby cause I was getting out of the car.

Considering Grant rides on the same plane I think I will take grants word over all these other "opinion" writers.

 

[Diabeticwonder]

Maybe it's true or not, but the last thing Grant is going to do is validate something that would put a black eye on Peja and the Kings organization. Grant says that he's critical of the Kings and that he doesn't kiss the organization's a**, but that is far more fiction than any ESPN Insider article.

 

[ReinadelosReys]

What Grant said: Everything is basically false

On Peja being seculded and by himself, away from the rest of the guys: He says that isn't true. He was in the locker room for 30min yesterday before the game and he said it looks as it has every other game. The guys were sitting around and getting ready for the game, nothing more nothing less.

He says that Peja sits in the same chair on the plane he has every year the only difference is this year Ostertag sits next to him instead of Vlade. He says yesterday him and Chris walked together to the plane talking the whole way and then they just for some reason bursted out in laughter.

On Peja work out: He says after they got back from Texas on Sat might, Sunday afternoon, an off day, Peja was there at the practice facility for hours working out.

On Mike Bibby's tirade: He says that he's been on the plane every game for the last 17 yrs and the only "incident" he's ever seen was when Dick Motta announced to teams he was quitting.

I've listened to Grant for years now, and while I disagree with him a lot on his takes, I've never known him to make up things/situations involivng the team just to spew out the "company line"...Believe what or who you want to believe, but this is 100% true: Grant there, Chad Ford not there.

Edit: Ok, now he says that maybe everything isn't true (like Peja's agent and the team's supposed "shouting matches", but he's not there during practices etc... But he says, when you travel with the team you hear about everything.

 

[LMM]

What Grant said: Everything is basically false

On Peja being seculded and by himself, away from the rest of the guys: He says that isn't true. He was in the locker room for 30min yesterday before the game and he said it looks as it has every other game. The guys were sitting around and getting ready for the game, nothing more nothing less.

He says that Peja sits in the same chair he has every year the only difference is this year Ostertag sits next to him instead of Vlade. He says yesterday him and Chris walked together to the plane talking the whole way and then they just for some reason bursted out in laughter.

On Peja work out: He says after the got back from Texas within hours on Sunday, Peja was there at the practice facility for hours working out.

On Mike Bibby's tirade: He says that he's been on the plane every game for the last 17 yrs and the only "incident" he's ever seen was when Dick Motta announced to teams he was quitting.

thanks for that reina!i hope this version is true.. i don't believe the "mike vs adelman on the plane".. that just isn't like mike..

as for peja, well i'm just hoping he isn't dogging it.. i also hope there are really no troubling chemistry issues..

 

[Catalyst]

Hmmm....while this does make me wonder (think) about things, I have this bias against writers outside of the city. Why isn't anyone here, who reports and writes on the team on a daily basis akeen to these (so-called) issues. (Can't believe I'm asking for it)Where's Aileen and her "sources" now?

This is either a) True and Peja is getting very bad advice from his agent. He is not increasing his stock value, and Petrie isn't going to trade him nothing, b) the media, well being the media.

Local writers usually have someone looking over their shoulder making sure they don't bash the local team too much. There could be a HUGE backlash to any local writer or paper that posted something too negative about the team, even if it was true. And by huge, I mean to the point of people losing their jobs, losing coverage of the local team, etc. As such, very few media outlets are willing to risk this.

On the same token, local papers also tend to check their facts a lot more than papers from outside the area. These same people looking over the writer's shoulder come down HARD on any writer that posts something as fact that ends up being bubkus. When you're covering the local team in your area, you better dot your "I"s and cross your "T"s.

 

[ReinadelosReys]

A:Local writers usually have someone looking over their shoulder making sure they don't bash the local team too much. There could be a HUGE backlash to any local writer or paper that posted something too negative about the team, even if it was true. B:And by huge, I mean to the point of people losing their jobs, losing coverage of the local team, etc. As such, very few media outlets are willing to risk this.

On the same token, local papers also tend to check their facts a lot more than papers from outside the area. These same people looking over the writer's shoulder come down HARD on any writer that posts something as fact that ends up being bubkus. When you're covering the local team in your area, you better dot your "I"s and cross your "T"s.

A: Then where they the last couple of years with Poison?

B: I think that might have happened with SHC

 

[VF21]

Local writers usually have someone looking over their shoulder making sure they don't bash the local team too much. There could be a HUGE backlash to any local writer or paper that posted something too negative about the team, even if it was true. And by huge, I mean to the point of people losing their jobs, losing coverage of the local team, etc. As such, very few media outlets are willing to risk this.

Patently untrue. A good deal of the worst criticisms of the Kings have come from local writers, who shall remain nameless. The San Francisco Chronicle mercilessly attacks the Niners and has been at the forefront of the Barry bashing. The Los Angeles Times had a writer who said such terrible things about the Rams it was rumored he never traveled without a bodyguard. Those aren't exceptions; those are the norms.

Local writers usually have a free reign to bashing the team up to a point because it sells papers. There's a saying in the business "ANY publicity is good publicity." It holds true for entertainers and it holds true for sports franchises. I can't think of one media outlet who is afraid of losing the right to cover a team because of something one of their writers has said.

 

[VF21]

B: I think that might have happened with SHC

Personally, I think SHC may have attributed a quote or something to a "source" that didn't actually exist. Or taken something given to him in confidence and published it... Or done something else that went against the procedures set forth by the Bee management. I don't know for sure, of course, but there were some rumors a while back.

 

[ReinadelosReys]

Personally, I think SHC may have attributed a quote or something to a "source" that didn't actually exist. Or taken something given to him in confidence and published it... Or done something else that went against the procedures set forth by the Bee management. I don't know for sure, of course, but there were some rumors a while back.

Thats what I mean. If I remember correctly his last (or one of his last on basketball) article had to do with "source" saying Chris Webber supposedly would demand a trade at the end of the season or something to that nature.

 

[Catalyst]

Patently untrue. A good deal of the worst criticisms of the Kings have come from local writers, who shall remain nameless. The San Francisco Chronicle mercilessly attacks the Niners and has been at the forefront of the Barry bashing. The Los Angeles Times had a writer who said such terrible things about the Rams it was rumored he never traveled without a bodyguard. Those aren't exceptions; those are the norms.

Local writers usually have a free reign to bashing the team up to a point because it sells papers. There's a saying in the business "ANY publicity is good publicity." It holds true for entertainers and it holds true for sports franchises. I can't think of one media outlet who is afraid of losing the right to cover a team because of something one of their writers has said.

For all of the local media outlets that DO bash their teams, look at all the ones that don't. Especially with the NBA media. Other sports are a different beast, but for the most part when it comes to local media and the NBA, you don't see a lot of criticism.

 

[VF21]

Maybe it's a California thing, because I remember a lot of nastiness towards the Warriors back in the day when they were actually worth talking about. In addition, I understand there's quite a bit of hostility in LA towards their teams by some writers. I'll confess - I don't read a lot of other papers for coverage of their teams. My basic assumption is that if they're anything like ours, their opinions are just as much in dispute, especially in anything other than the basic game recap articles.

 

[Elektrik]

Why not the same for Artest? We should look on how Sheed has blossomed after being known as a head case and model that approach; that is if we do indeed get him. At this point, I might be open to it regardless of any hiphop-ery.

Great point! The trade for Wallace by Detroit IS what put them over the top...head case and all. Perhaps Artest could do the same for us. Clearly there is trouble brewing and the system does not appear to be working anymore. I for one would rather have a championship here in Sacramento with a knucklehead or two then a bunch of happy losers again.
As much as the Vlade/Peja friendship blossomed and worked here in Sacramento I seem to remember that Ron Artest and Brad Miller have a close relationship while they were together in Indiana. Perhaps that could be the same kind of building block.
One last thing. Trade or no trade, this team has got to show some steps in the right direction....and soon, or I predict Adelman will finally be sent packing. If that were to happen Geoff might go too! And that would not make me happy.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Great point! The trade for Wallace by Detroit IS what put them over the top...head case and all...

Two things to keep in mind here:

1 - Rasheed Wallace, had, for the most part, outgrown his "headcase" reputation before the start of last season, while he was still in Portland.

2- Detroit basically got Wallace from Atlanta for cap space; they didn't really have to give anybody up to get him, whereas we couldn't get Artest without having to give up at least one key player.

 

[WalMatt23]

Local writers usually have a free reign to bashing the team up to a point...

that sounds like they don't have "free reign"

Aren't the Bee, News10, and 1140am all in a "partnership" with the Kings? Its hard to know who to trust...I mean, it seems logical that the local beat writers would have an edge on whats going on because they travel with the team, but it also seems they have a conflict of interest. The national writers should be more unbiased, at least as far as conflict of interest from their employers (although IMO writers seem to favor some teams over others), but then it seems like their information should be less reliable because they aren't as immersed in the tea m like the local cats.

grrrrrr.....hard for the average fan to know where to get good information

 

[piksi]

He says that Peja sits in the same chair on the plane he has every year the only difference is this year Ostertag sits next to him instead of Vlade.

I just imagined a conversation between two of them. No wonder he is shooting poorly. They need to switch the seat arangements quickly

 

[VF21]

that sounds like they don't have "free reign"

Aren't the Bee, News10, and 1140am all in a "partnership" with the Kings? Its hard to know who to trust...I mean, it seems logical that the local beat writers would have an edge on whats going on because they travel with the team, but it also seems they have a conflict of interest. The national writers should be more unbiased, at least as far as conflict of interest from their employers (although IMO writers seem to favor some teams over others), but then it seems like their information should be less reliable because they aren't as immersed in the tea m like the local cats.

grrrrrr.....hard for the average fan to know where to get good information

First, sorry. It should have been free "REIN."

Second, the Bee is not in partnership with the Kings. They have a mutually beneficial working relationship, as does any sports franchise and the local newspaper. People buy the local paper to read about their team. The team is able to garner more fans because new people read about them in the newspaper. And back and forth, and back and forth...

Second, the same goes for News10 and the Kings. While the station does carry some games, they pay for the right to do so and then recover money from the ad revenue generated from the broadcast. 1140 also has a mutually beneficial arrangement with the Kings. Where the confusion sometimes lies is with Grant Napear, who has a show on 1140. When he is on the air at 1140, he is an employee of Freedom Broadcasting. When he is broadcasting Kings games on TV, he is in the employ of Maloof Sports. He has two jobs, working for different employers. His duties overlap as far as the Kings as concerned, but he is not on the Maloof payroll when he's talking on the radio.

Reporters do not have a conflict of interest when they have a close relationship with their beat subjects, especially in sports. Marty McNeal is a writer for the Bee. He covers the Kings a lot. He is, in essense, a sports reporter. The same holds true for Joe Davidson. They report the news of the team, the tangibles, the concrete facts such as scores, trades, etc.

Ailene Voisin and Mark Kreidler, on the other hand, are sports COLUMNISTS. They write opinion pieces about various things, including the Kings. They are not bound to report just the facts. They interpret the facts and give their opinions. They are given much more leeway because of their job definitions. They are supposed to write pieces people will talk about and debate, as opposed to the pieces Marty and Joe write.

 

[Evenstar]

i made a point to listen to grant today ( thank gawd i got a good signal for once!!!) and i have to say, i do feel better about the peja situtation after hearing what grant had to say. not that i really believed what ford said ( notice the IF's i put on my previous posts) but it feels good to hear that webber and peja were laughing together while getting on the plane, and that peja practiced on an offday. i believe him a lot more then i believe ford, hell grant goes on the plane with the kings, he knows first hand what happens on the plane! hopefully that shot returns sooner then later, the kings are in dire need of it!!!!!!

GO PEJA!!!

 

[TheSerbianQueen]

I find it VERy hard to believe that Pedja would be behaving this way and yet the organization is not willing to give him up and get someone else in return.... who would want a player that's not doing enough, not practicing enough and on bad terms with everyone?? Sounds silly to me....... In fact all this fingerpointing at Pedja because of his bad start of the season is starting to bother - for the simple reason that he is actually still one of the better ones on this very UNFAMILIAR team...everyone except Brad has been playing like crap. Sorry!

Secondly - why won't people just give up on the whole Artest trade thing? IMO, that guy has issues...... the whole thing about requesting time off to promote his rap album (?!?!?!?!?!)...... where are his priorities?? And certaint people actually want him on the Kings team.......??

 

[ReinadelosReys]

Chad Ford will be on with the "Rise guys" between 6 and 6:30am---EDIT: right now. to talk about the article. Yesterday on Kings Talk, Joe Davidson said if you listen to all of these Nat'l guys, you'd think these guys are at each other's throat and bickering non-stop, when that simply is not the case

 

[ReinadelosReys]

A rough, short version of what Ford said: He's sticking by his story and his sources, which he of course cannot identify becasue all of this was "off-the record", gave him first hand knowledge. That if we knew who the sources were, we'd be surprised becsaue they are those within the team, even players. He also said that he got a call from the Kings about this and they called him out on the Bibby-Aldeman story, but then according to him when he revealed his sources and information they began "to back-peddal"

Give me a couple of hours and I'll post a transcript.

 

[LMM]

A rough, short version of what Ford said: He's sticking by his story and his sources, which he of course cannot identify becasue all of this was "off-the record", gave him first hand knowledge. That if we knew who the sources were, we'd be surprised becsaue they are those within the team, even players. He also said that he got a call from the Kings about this and they called him out on the Bibby-Aldeman story, but then according to him when he revealed his sources and information they began "to back-peddal"

Give me a couple of hours and I'll post a transcript.

i'll be waiting for that! thanks in advance

 

[Evenstar]

Give me a couple of hours and I'll post a transcript.

you rock reina thanks in advance