I'm starting to question Jason Thompson

[mac]

I think the majority agrees that the problem with JT is really his basketball IQ. He has the physical abilities and a decent jumpshot that can make him a very decent player that we all envision. What will prevent him from reaching that higher tier of players is really his natural bball iq, his craftiness. I expect him to get better at finishing around the rim, especially next year with an offseason under the new coaching staff. But some of the plays, passes he makes just leave you going WTH?!!

Hawes on the other hand, has high bball iq and much more potential. With him the problem is his work ethic and physical ability. Petrie drafted two guys who complement each other extremely well, in a certain sense. Note also that JT's rebounding numbers are skewed becuase of the number of easy putbbacks he misses. As someone posted, his D board numbers are kinda low. I think JT would be an excellent back up for us when we are contenders, assuming hawes reaches his potential. Sign a real star PF and we're good to go.

 

[Aenadin]

we need big men coaches....

whats truck doing any ways aside from parking his rear on the side lines? is he teaching these kids some big men moves?

 

[King Baller]

thompson is a scrub... just because you have low expectations doesnt make me a laker fan. ive been saying that thompson was a scrub the entire time... i spent the entire summer talking about how scrubtastic this team was for the most part. as a whole they are a bunch of middle of the pack players.... they would have to overachieve just to be average. if ending the season at .500 is out of reach for a team it means that they are scrubs. because 8th seed isnt really anything worth talking about unless you pull off some amazing upset, which is still hella overachieving...

Yep, laker fan

KB

 

[King Baller]

we need big men coaches....

whats truck doing any ways aside from parking his rear on the side lines? is he teaching these kids some big men moves?

Lets see, Truck's been coaching these young players 2 months? I have seen a tremendous improvement in rebounding and defense. Some of that is the new players and some of that is the coaches scheme.

The Kings were the worst team in the league last year. Players often take years to develop. Certainly team chemsitry and cohesion takes a year or two with a new young team.

I am wildly happy as a Kings fan with the level of success the team has had this year.

How many of you expected playoffs this year???

This team has been COMPETING with almost every team. The games are fun to watch. The rookies are awesome.

Methinks thou protests too much

KB

 

[Jkbiker]

Has JT been making a lot of dumb mistakes? Yes been yelling at the tv a lot lately

Is he in a current slump last 9 games against elite team? Yes has been a tough time for JT

So he is 22nd in the league in scoring at PF position this year so far? Yes but how many of the 1st 21 players are in 1st or Second year? I didnt look it up but guessing 1 or 2?

Where were all these JT complainers when early in the season he was carrying the load for the frontline, Spencer was injured or playing like crap, had to play out of position at C which doesnt play to his strenghs

I didnt see posters calling him a scrub when he was the only big man out there doing his job

Both Spencer and JT have struggled at differnt times this season, what we need is that one star level Big to be part of a 3 man rotation, with an occasional Brockness thrown in when one of the three struggles or are injured.

Our biggest need has been another big man for JT and Spence to support based on matchups and performance.

Draft could take forever to get such a person
Free Agency could be tough would take some big bucks
Maybe if we find a trade that could get done

We have the talent or potential talent at the other positions
One more Star to go with Evans and Martin and some more experience for the youngins and we could contend

 

[JoMama]

I wouldn't say he's a scrub, but he does have a $2 brain in a million dollar body. JT needs counseling - on and off the court, IMHO. His shortcomings seem to stem from his emotional hangups. He gets a quick foul, misses an easy shot and he mentally checks out of the game. Maybe he's a 8 year old emotionally. Whatever the problem, he needs to fix it before it permanently affects his value as a player.

 

[djsnaz]

I used to think our glaring weakness was the C spot. I am starting to think that Hawes could be the "2nd fiddle" in a 1-2 / C-PF arrangement. This means, of course, that my opinion of Thompson has slipped quite a bit. Seeing him get schooled TWICE by Gasol and being absolutely useless in several games has had quite an impact...

I say do a trade for Bosh. Package whomever (not Reke or Casspi) to get it done.

I would LOVE to see:
Reke
Martin
Casspi
Bosh
Hawes

 

[pshn80]

Spot on. I've been thinking the same comparison myself.

He may be on a level with Drew Gooden but Gooden is the epitome of grace compared to Thompson. Can you teach grace?

 

[AriesMar27]

I wouldn't say he's a scrub, but he does have a $2 brain in a million dollar body. JT needs counseling - on and off the court, IMHO. His shortcomings seem to stem from his emotional hangups. He gets a quick foul, misses an easy shot and he mentally checks out of the game. Maybe he's a 8 year old emotionally. Whatever the problem, he needs to fix it before it permanently affects his value as a player.

okay, i'll admit that calling him a scrub now is uncalled for but think about it. in a few years when he's no longer on a rookie contract making 7-8 million, still putting up the same numbers and making the same stupid mistakes will he still be considered a good or decent player? no... he'll be an overpayed scrub. he wont be an mle priced player because he's our starting pf... he's going to get paid and he's still going to suck.

at least shareef became a 20ppg scorer with all of his short comings, i dont think that thompson will be that good...

 

[Warhawk]

okay, i'll admit that calling him a scrub now is uncalled for but think about it. in a few years when he's no longer on a rookie contract making 7-8 million, still putting up the same numbers and making the same stupid mistakes will he still be considered a good or decent player? no... he'll be an overpayed scrub. he wont be an mle priced player because he's our starting pf... he's going to get paid and he's still going to suck.

at least shareef became a 20ppg scorer with all of his short comings, i dont think that thompson will be that good...

In a few years he could be a significantly different player. How about you give him the chance to improve and then make that determination, huh?

 

[bajaden]

thompson played 4 years of college ball and is in his 2nd year as a pro... if he had come to the nba after his freshman year he'd have just as much nba experience as garcia... if anything staying in college hurt him, he got comfortable playing against weaker opposition. we only have 3 big men... and now that brockman is getting minutes and rebounds thompsons game has fallen off the deep end.

in 2010 thompson is averaging 8/7 in 30 minutes of play.... 3 of his 7 rebounds are offensive and probably off his own missed shot. scrub....

Ridiculous comment. Go look at history. I won't do your work for you. If you can't figure out what I'm talking about, then continue to wander in in la la land.

 

[Larry89]

All big men have had some problems entering into the league, give him a little bit more time

 

[Larry89]

we need big men coaches....

whats truck doing any ways aside from parking his rear on the side lines? is he teaching these kids some big men moves?

Shareef is not a big man coach, he was primarily a forward turned tweener PF..

 

[bajaden]

thompson is a scrub... just because you have low expectations doesnt make me a laker fan. ive been saying that thompson was a scrub the entire time... i spent the entire summer talking about how scrubtastic this team was for the most part. as a whole they are a bunch of middle of the pack players.... they would have to overachieve just to be average. if ending the season at .500 is out of reach for a team it means that they are scrubs. because 8th seed isnt really anything worth talking about unless you pull off some amazing upset, which is still hella overachieving...

Don't much like the word scrub. Don't much like people that call other people names. Usually done when they don't really have an answer to whatever discussion their involved in. Your an interesting specimen as a fan. And I use the term fan loosely in your regard. You seldom complimemt anything the Kings or their players do. You never miss any opportunity to jump in and criticize any player anytime.

I love my wife very much. But if I only criticized everything she did and never complimented her, I wouldn't be married very long. And, I'm sure my love would be questioned. You seem to take joy in degrading and criticizing. You point out only the negatives and seldom mention positives. And when you do its comes across as gratuitous. Almost like your throwing us a bone.

There are a lot of posters on this fourm that are critical at times. But none more consistant than you. Personally, I don't think you can help yourself. Thats a shame, because your not stupid and you do know basketball. Thats my gratuitous bone for you. But from this point forward, I'm going to make your life a little easier. I'm never responding to any post you make in the future. I'm afraid I'm putting you on ignore.. adios amigo..

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Anthony Peeler (We gave up GW for you, you jerk)

No. No, no, no, no, no. I see this claim a lot, and it is a mistaken impression. We did not protect Anthony Peeler in the 2004 expansion draft; he had just finished up a one-year contract and was not eligible to be protected because he was an impending free agent. In fact, over the summer he signed with Washington - we "lost" him that same offseason.

We lost Gerald Wallace in large part because Petrie apparently did not have the foresight/desire to to sign Anthony Peeler (or Darius Songaila) to a TWO-YEAR contract in the 2003 offseason. Expansion draft rules required at least one player actually under contract from each team to be exposed, and we had no "worthless" player we could do that with. We certainly did not give up Gerald Wallace in favor of keeping Peeler.

 

[Tetsujin]

No. No, no, no, no, no. I see this claim a lot, and it is a mistaken impression. We did not protect Anthony Peeler in the 2004 expansion draft; he had just finished up a one-year contract and was not eligible to be protected because he was an impending free agent. In fact, over the summer he signed with Washington - we "lost" him that same offseason.

We lost Gerald Wallace in large part because Petrie apparently did not have the foresight/desire to to sign Anthony Peeler (or Darius Songaila) to a TWO-YEAR contract in the 2003 offseason. Expansion draft rules required at least one player actually under contract from each team to be exposed, and we had no "worthless" player we could do that with. We certainly did not give up Gerald Wallace in favor of keeping Peeler.

Thanks for clearing that up. I never really understood the whole expansion draft situation.

 

[bajaden]

No. No, no, no, no, no. I see this claim a lot, and it is a mistaken impression. We did not protect Anthony Peeler in the 2004 expansion draft; he had just finished up a one-year contract and was not eligible to be protected because he was an impending free agent. In fact, over the summer he signed with Washington - we "lost" him that same offseason.

We lost Gerald Wallace in large part because Petrie apparently did not have the foresight/desire to to sign Anthony Peeler (or Darius Songaila) to a TWO-YEAR contract in the 2003 offseason. Expansion draft rules required at least one player actually under contract from each team to be exposed, and we had no "worthless" player we could do that with. We certainly did not give up Gerald Wallace in favor of keeping Peeler.

El Correcto!..

 

[rainmaker]

Jt isn't even to the allstar break of his second year in the league. For everyone questioning Jt's basketball IQ, I'm beginning to question the basketball IQ of a few of the posters on this forum.

Anyone who has followed the league and actually put some thought into it, realizes that it takes much longer than 115 games for a big man to develop in the nba. Anyone who has ever watched big men develop in this league realizes JT could be a completely different player in a few years, after he is allowed time to mature and grow. What a concept. Some in here are looking for immediate improvement, and if they don't see results from game to game, or week to week, they think said player isn't improving. Growth, experience, or maturity don't show up that quickly.

Every nba player needs time to develop. Every young player has his ups and downs, and young players by nature will be more inconsistent than vets. If you don't understand the need for patience with the 3rd youngest team in the league, than you either don't understand basketball, or don't understand what is realistic in terms of development for 20-23 yr olds in the nba.

For the fans here that won't allow for development and the process of maturing as a player, I suggest finding a team which is stacked with vets to root for. This IS rebuilding. This IS how it happens, and this IS what you sould expect. Fustration. Highs and lows. Exciting wins that will make you want to take to the streets, and losses(such as vs GS) which will make you want to beat your head against the wall. All part of the process. But anyone who has watched this league, and has watched teams rebuild, or watched the Kings for 98-02, realizes this is completely normal. If anything, we're ahead of schedule.

 

[gmcfly]

Rainmaker, it's nice to see a person who truly understands what is going on. I agree with everything you wrote. Bottom line is we have seen jason play at a high level many times, so it's not a matter of whether he has the ability. He needs to mature and not go at 100mph all the time. He's played less than a year and a half in his NBA career. If we are having this conversation next year at this time, then it's a problem. Let the process happen!!!!

 

[bajaden]

Jt isn't even to the allstar break of his second year in the league. For everyone questioning Jt's basketball IQ, I'm beginning to question the basketball IQ of a few of the posters on this forum.

Anyone who has followed the league and actually put some thought into it, realizes that it takes much longer than 115 games for a big man to develop in the nba. Anyone who has ever watched big men develop in this league realizes JT could be a completely different player in a few years, after he is allowed time to mature and grow. What a concept. Some in here are looking for immediate improvement, and if they don't see results from game to game, or week to week, they think said player isn't improving. Growth, experience, or maturity don't show up that quickly.

Every nba player needs time to develop. Every young player has his ups and downs, and young players by nature will be more inconsistent than vets. If you don't understand the need for patience with the 3rd youngest team in the league, than you either don't understand basketball, or don't understand what is realistic in terms of development for 20-23 yr olds in the nba.

For the fans here that won't allow for development and the process of maturing as a player, I suggest finding a team which is stacked with vets to root for. This IS rebuilding. This IS how it happens, and this IS what you sould expect. Fustration. Highs and lows. Exciting wins that will make you want to take to the streets, and losses(such as vs GS) which will make you want to beat your head against the wall. All part of the process. But anyone who has watched this league, and has watched teams rebuild, or watched the Kings for 98-02, realizes this is completely normal. If anything, we're ahead of schedule.

I couldn't have said it better myself. Well, maybe. Naw, well said..

 

[Bricklayer]

Anyone who has followed the league and actually put some thought into it, realizes that it takes much longer than 115 games for a big man to develop in the nba.

This is a tad overstated around here. It CAN take more than 115 games. Certianly possible. Has happened a number of times. But especially for old rookies like JT, who is the same age as the old style rookies of the early 90s and earlier where they stayed in school 4 years, there are a lot of guys who came in the league ready to play. You didn't have to sit and wait for Mourning or Larry Johnson etc.. They were grown men entering the league, and stepped right in doing what they were going to do. There were certainly numerous cases of guys taking a while even in those days, (most notably for us Otis Thorpe, who did not blossom until year 3) but this "it always takes bigs years to develop" thing is largely a modern invention due to kids entering the NBA too young and not having the body to compete at this level. JT doesn't have that excuse. He's still got time, it has happened in the past, but like the rookies of old it really has to happen in the next year or two or its probably not going to. 25 is about the cutoff point for major blossomings. By that point you almost always are what you are.

 

[Larry89]

We can always sign Darko

 

[bajaden]

This is a tad overstated around here. It CAN take more than 115 games. Certianly possible. Has happened a number of times. But especially for old rookies like JT, who is the same age as the old style rookies of the early 90s and earlier where they stayed in school 4 years, there are a lot of guys who came in the league ready to play. You didn't have to sit and wait for Mourning or Larry Johnson etc.. They were grown men entering the league, and stepped right in doing what they were going to do. There were certainly numerous cases of guys taking a while even in those days, (most notably for us Otis Thorpe, who did not blossom until year 3) but this "it always takes bigs years to develop" thing is largely a modern invention due to kids entering the NBA too young and not having the body to compete at this level. JT doesn't have that excuse. He's still got time, it has happened in the past, but like the rookies of old it really has to happen in the next year or two or its probably not going to. 25 is about the cutoff point for major blossomings. By that point you almost always are what you are.

Kevin McHale

1st year: 20 MPG, 10 PPG, 4.4 RPG, age 23
2nd year: 28 MPG, 13.6 PPG, 6.8 RPG
3rd year: 28 MPG, 14.1 PPG, 6.7 RPG
4th year: 31 MPG, 18.4 PPG, 7.4 RPG
5th year: 33 MPG, 19.8 PPG, 9.0 RPG age 27

He went on to score 20 plus points for the next five years and grab 10 boards a game.

It took Antonio McDyess until his fourth year to have a break out season. It took Bill Laimber until his fifth season. I could probably go and find plenty more and I'm sure just as many could be found that were established in their second year. But thats not really the point. The point is that it takes some players longer to mature and become a finished product. And if you don't give them enough time, you could be making a mistake. One that could haunt you four times a year, if not more.

There are no guarantees. I'm a big proponet of Jason's. But, if at the end of next year, he doesn't show dramatic improvement, then its time to think about going in another direction. He's been disappointing to say the least for about two weeks now. But two weeks ago everyone was ready to ship out Spencer. And last year it was Beno. So things can change very quickly and its important not to have knee jerk reactions. Thats what bad teams do.

 

[NME]

3) but this "it always takes bigs years to develop" thing is largely a modern invention due to kids entering the NBA too young and not having the body to compete at this level.

While it's more exaggerated in these one-and-done days, I don't believe that's the case. I recall that same mantra routinely being said by coaches and commentators back in the stay-in-school 80's.

 

[King Baller]

Jt isn't even to the allstar break of his second year in the league. For everyone questioning Jt's basketball IQ, I'm beginning to question the basketball IQ of a few of the posters on this forum.

Anyone who has followed the league and actually put some thought into it, realizes that it takes much longer than 115 games for a big man to develop in the nba. Anyone who has ever watched big men develop in this league realizes JT could be a completely different player in a few years, after he is allowed time to mature and grow. What a concept. Some in here are looking for immediate improvement, and if they don't see results from game to game, or week to week, they think said player isn't improving. Growth, experience, or maturity don't show up that quickly.

Every nba player needs time to develop. Every young player has his ups and downs, and young players by nature will be more inconsistent than vets. If you don't understand the need for patience with the 3rd youngest team in the league, than you either don't understand basketball, or don't understand what is realistic in terms of development for 20-23 yr olds in the nba.

For the fans here that won't allow for development and the process of maturing as a player, I suggest finding a team which is stacked with vets to root for. This IS rebuilding. This IS how it happens, and this IS what you sould expect. Fustration. Highs and lows. Exciting wins that will make you want to take to the streets, and losses(such as vs GS) which will make you want to beat your head against the wall. All part of the process. But anyone who has watched this league, and has watched teams rebuild, or watched the Kings for 98-02, realizes this is completely normal. If anything, we're ahead of schedule.

I agree rainmaker, rebuilding takes time. The Kings rebuilding is ahead of schedule and some of those great wins can lead to unrealistic expectations for a team starting two rookies and several second and third year players in the rotation.

I think the young Kings players, the coaches and the front office should be commended

KB

 

[Bricklayer]

Kevin McHale

1st year: 20 MPG, 10 PPG, 4.4 RPG, age 23
2nd year: 28 MPG, 13.6 PPG, 6.8 RPG
3rd year: 28 MPG, 14.1 PPG, 6.7 RPG
4th year: 31 MPG, 18.4 PPG, 7.4 RPG
5th year: 33 MPG, 19.8 PPG, 9.0 RPG age 27

He went on to score 20 plus points for the next five years and grab 10 boards a game.

It took Antonio McDyess until his fourth year to have a break out season. It took Bill Laimber until his fifth season. I could probably go and find plenty more and I'm sure just as many could be found that were established in their second year. But thats not really the point. The point is that it takes some players longer to mature and become a finished product. And if you don't give them enough time, you could be making a mistake. One that could haunt you four times a year, if not more.

There are no guarantees. I'm a big proponet of Jason's. But, if at the end of next year, he doesn't show dramatic improvement, then its time to think about going in another direction. He's been disappointing to say the least for about two weeks now. But two weeks ago everyone was ready to ship out Spencer. And last year it was Beno. So things can change very quickly and its important not to have knee jerk reactions. Thats what bad teams do.

Wihtout rejecting the overall point that there have been guys who blossomed late, a few corrections/notes:

1) McDyess was one of those early entry guys. His 4th season he was still just 24 and a 20-10 guy. And he was already pretty well established before then.

2) Laimbeer was actually an All Star by his third year.

3) McHale of course played with 2 HOFs on the frontline, so his minutes and production are a bit hard to guage. Did he get better late in life, or did the frontline minutes and shots open up for him? In any case he was also notorious for having entered the league as a stringbean, which again has often been the biggest problem for young bigs. Not ready to bang wiht full grown men.

JT's story isn't finished yet, but history is muddy at best in trying to predict his future. There is certainly no inevitability about his ascension, and many of the things holding back young bigs over the years -- established vets, undeveloped bodies, pure youth amongst early entry guys -- just aren't there for Jason. He's big enough, old enough, and has the position all to himself.

I made this comparison earlier.

Jason Thompson
Age 22: 28.1min 11.1pts (.497 FG% .000 3pt% .692 FT%) 7.4reb 1.1ast 0.6stl 0.7blk 1.8TO
Age 23: 34.9pts 14.4pts (.482 FG% .000 3pt% .734 FT%) 9.0reb 2.1ast 0.6stl 0.9blk 2.1TO

Drew Gooden
Age 22: 27.0min 11.6pts (.445 FG% .214 3pt% .637 FT%) 6.5reb 1.1ast 0.8stl 0.9blk 1.6TO
Age 23: 30.8min 14.4pts (.492 FG% .179 3pt% .810 FT%) 9.2reb 1.6ast 0.9stl 0.9blk 1.6TO


eerie isn't it? Gooden is no "scrub" as that word has been tossed around in this thread -- solid vet, and with a solid career. If that is what JT turns out to be he'll still be in the NBA as a fringe starter 10 years form now. But if in 2005 you had been waiting around for Gooden to inevitably ascend to stardom because he was only 23, well it would be a long wait.

 

[gmcfly]

Are you people stupid? Why compare JT to guys who played 20years ago? The game is different...the players come into the league with different skills and experience then that era. If you want to make sense compare him to players in the last 10 years, not Mchale and Lambeer.

Make that 30 years ago! Hey let's compare JT to George Mikan while we're at it!

 

[Bricklayer]

Are you people stupid? Why compare JT to guys who played 20years ago? The game is different...the players come into the league with different skills and experience then that era. If you want to make sense compare him to players in the last 10 years, not Mchale and Lambeer.

The point of the older comparisons is that in the modern era few major NBA players stay in school the whole 4 years, so you are comparing players to Jason who were much younger than Jason at the same point in their careers. 19 year old rookies to a 22 year old rookie. The 90s and earlier guys all had that same 4 years of college as Jason and all entered the league at 22-23. So their development arcs might make for better matches.

 

[Showtime]

Kevin McHale

1st year: 20 MPG, 10 PPG, 4.4 RPG, age 23
2nd year: 28 MPG, 13.6 PPG, 6.8 RPG
3rd year: 28 MPG, 14.1 PPG, 6.7 RPG
4th year: 31 MPG, 18.4 PPG, 7.4 RPG
5th year: 33 MPG, 19.8 PPG, 9.0 RPG age 27

He went on to score 20 plus points for the next five years and grab 10 boards a game.

It took Antonio McDyess until his fourth year to have a break out season. It took Bill Laimber until his fifth season. I could probably go and find plenty more and I'm sure just as many could be found that were established in their second year. But thats not really the point. The point is that it takes some players longer to mature and become a finished product. And if you don't give them enough time, you could be making a mistake. One that could haunt you four times a year, if not more.

There are no guarantees. I'm a big proponet of Jason's. But, if at the end of next year, he doesn't show dramatic improvement, then its time to think about going in another direction. He's been disappointing to say the least for about two weeks now. But two weeks ago everyone was ready to ship out Spencer. And last year it was Beno. So things can change very quickly and its important not to have knee jerk reactions. Thats what bad teams do.

Those guys weren't soft around the rim, afraid to dunk, totally lose their minds and self destruct when things go bad, etc etc. Some guys have the tools, and others don't. Just because McHale took time to develop doesn't mean JT will do the same. Some guys have what it takes, and some don't.

 

[casspion]

I used to think our glaring weakness was the C spot. I am starting to think that Hawes could be the "2nd fiddle" in a 1-2 / C-PF arrangement. This means, of course, that my opinion of Thompson has slipped quite a bit. Seeing him get schooled TWICE by Gasol and being absolutely useless in several games has had quite an impact...

I say do a trade for Bosh. Package whomever (not Reke or Casspi) to get it done.

I would LOVE to see:
Reke
Martin
Casspi
Bosh
Hawes

It will never happen bro. If you trade for Bosh who are you sending to Toronto to get him? More importantly, CB is not leaving Toronto to join a team that is not a definite upgrade over what he had with the raps. As a Torontonian I am familiar with the entire timeline of CB in T.O. He ain't leaving the raps to join Hawes (no disrespect intended Spence) in the front line.
the raptors can be mediocre and still make the playoffs in the East. the Kings can be good and still miss the playoffs in the west.

Bosh is only moving to a title contender from Toronto, or to Texas.
The Raptors are exactly where they were supposed to be: a level below the east powerhouses of Boston, Cleavland and Orlando, with Atlanta unfortunately for the Raptors joining them. And Reggie Evans is still sidelined so the Raptors don't have their own Brockman ready to play. Colangelo gave CB exactly the team he promised at the beginning of the season. DeRozen is starting to come along and he is making some sick plays.