I'm sorry

#31
i usually don't post much thanks to the poop colored feelings I get tho I do agree w/ you. Even if the kings were to land top 5 picks every year they likely wouldn't do good. No big name wants to come to norcal. Reminds me of teams like the clippers, hawks, and timberwolves. the kings organization was rejuvenated when the maloof brought in casino money and struck gold w/ webber but I'd say the kings organization lacks talent. Spurs are a small market team but their scouts are amazing. The kings most accomplished member is jerry reynolds. Need to rebuild the entire organization not just fire the coach every year and hope to get lucky in the draft.
 
#32
Give Westphal an experienced point guard, a starter quality small forward, a starter quality power forward and some better, more reliable play at center, that's all, and I think he would do just fine, in fact be our hero. In Westphal's case, with the present team as it is today, it's just a question of how best to lose. Do you play one lineup to death or do you rotate what you have back and forth, or some ground in between. Do you install new plays when key people haven't mastered the old ones? Do you bench players for being stupid or lazy or whatever or do you ignore it and play them anyway. If you have a backup center who can score and pass and rebound should you play him more? Oh, that's right, he fouls out. Oh well. Next choice. New day should he start three guards? Maybe, let's try it. Don't fire Westphal unless you have a better plan. I can't think of one.

As I posted elsewhere this AM.........

Be hopeful. It's going to get better. I agree it's been hard to watch especially this last week or so. I've been a season ticket holder since the beginning and most of you know what that means as far seeing all sides of the Kings play is concerned. I don't want the Kings to go, I'm not going to stop being a fan. I like basketball, love to make a shot, love to watch my team make a good play. I haven't seen as many of these as I would like this year but I've seen some and I always believe it will get better. Hang in there, and as others have said, don't apologize, I understand completely.
 
#33
The reason we have been losing is that the team has not been playing with any kind of fire at all. This team needs heart. They win when they play with intent to win, the last few games it does not seem like the players have cared about winning. They need to get out there and play inspired basketball.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#34
People have gone positively wacky over a slowish start. That's what you get for actually having expectations I susppose.

How people could sit throught he Muss years, the Theus years, the Natt year, and NOW get their panties all up in a bunch confuses me.
Its called impatience, and with a little fear thrown in. I think if the arena deal wasn't hanging out there like a black cloud, there would be a little more patience and perhaps confidence that we'll all still be here to see the Kings emerge into one of the better teams in the NBA. As a result I think there's more of, We need to win now while we still have them feeling.

However I do think there's some short term merit to The Hammers post. I certainly hope he doesn't leave because I enjoy reading his posts.
 
#35
Its called impatience, and with a little fear thrown in. I think if the arena deal wasn't hanging out there like a black cloud, there would be a little more patience and perhaps confidence that we'll all still be here to see the Kings emerge into one of the better teams in the NBA. As a result I think there's more of, We need to win now while we still have them feeling.

However I do think there's some short term merit to The Hammers post. I certainly hope he doesn't leave because I enjoy reading his posts.
I agree on every point of Bajaden's comment. I also appreciate your posts Hammer, so please reconsider staying around.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#36
I'm glad you brought up this thread. Don't apologize.

Let's look at what is unstable. How about 20 something players who are millionares. Inherently unstable. Then add to that the fact that at least with two of the players - Tyreke and Cousins - their faces are plastered over freaking murals bigger than Egyptian pharohs on the pyramids. The owners did this to solicit fan support. Now if you're a 20-something millionare who has been fawned over since high school and are now worshipped nearly to biblical proportions, what do you think that is going to do to your head? Especially when the owner is literally banking on you, maybe for their survival in this city? Then let's remember something about the early 20s: You think you know when in fact you do not know. The exceptions to that axiom are very, very few. Then add to that fact that the demi-god, Lebron James, decided to leave his small market team for the big lights. Think the owners might be a little worried about that future possibility? The players know that. All of which means that when it comes to leverage, the player has a ton, or maybe more importantly, they perceive they have a ton of leverage. So, you have a millionare young know-it-all who doesn't know squat, told by the owner how great he is, and of course the agent concurs, and now you, the coach, have to persuade him to believe that he really doesn't know it all, and to become a better player he needs to do the uncomfortable thing. In the meantime, the fan, who worships the player, and knows nothing of what is going on behind the scenes, typically supports the coach over any dispute with the player. The coach runs the show, right? And guess what? That gives the player even more leverage over the coach and the organization. Now that is a volatile cocktail, no matter how you look at it.

How can you possibly run a stable organization with those unenviable circumstances? You have to have a rock-hard owner who will not back down from supporting his coach. That's what the owner, now deceased, did in Utah with Sloan. I'd like to know how many times the players via their agents have complained about Sloan to that owner over the years and the owner basically telling them to shove it. In the early years my guess would be, quite a bit. After the word got out later, probably not that much. If you have mushy wishy-washy owners who cave based on the emotions of the moment, you're done. The agents know your history of caving, the players know it, and your own coach knows it. It's a house built upon sand.
Well that was a mouthful. And a lot of it has merit. There's no doubt that a lot of players coming into the NBA have been pampered from day one. Where I might differ with you is in making it a generalization. Althought I know why you did. To make a point. On the surface your right. But if you look into each player individually, then there are exceptions. For example, I doubt Thompson has ever been pampered on his way to the NBA. He was one of those blue collar under the radar type of guys. If you look carefully into Cousins childhood and pre-NBA basketball experience, he's hardly been pampered. Actually quite the opposite. I suspose you could call his experience at Kentucky being pampered to some degree. But no more than any of the other starters, and perhaps less.

But in the bigger picture I agree. I can't imagine what it would be like to have my picture cover the entire side of a building, and then be left sitting on the bench in crunch time. By the same token, I can't imagine what it would be like to be the coach of a player whose picture covers the entire side of a building, and your trying to bring discipline to his game, and his demeanor on and off the court. I'm sure it doesn't make your job any easier. I don't however thinks its a fair comparison between Sloan and Westphal. Of course I'm biased. I'm a huge fan of Jerry Sloan, and there's a lot more than meets the eye with him. Contrary to common belief, Sloan doesn't punish mistakes as much as he punishes lack of effort.

The bottom line is that the players don't make the rules. The players don't create the atmosphere that they play in. The players don't pamper themselves, other people do. Yes, they do take advantage of situations, and I doubt any of us wouldn't do the same thing. So if something is wrong, it starts at the top and works it way down. Its a complicated issue. You can't really blame the Maloof's for trying to sell their product and get people back in the seats. But I suspose you can blame them for putting the cart before the horse to some extent. Westhpal is in a tough spot. He has a very young inexperienced team. It lacks discipline and court knowledge. Its a team with some fragile ego's and some inflated ego's. Each player has to be handled in a different manner if you want the right kind of development. But hey, no one twisted his arm to take the job. He wanted it, so now he has to produce. On a personal level, I'm somewhat disappointed. But I'm still willing to wait and see. He's certainly better than Theus or Musselman. But I'm not sure he's the best coach for the long term future. We'll see..
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#37
I'm not to the point that I'm calling for Westphal's head or thinking that this entire season is going to be a waste, but I will admit to being quite disappointed in the season thus far.

Here were my expectations coming in:

1.) Stability
In theory we finally had a returning coach who actually qualifies as a coach in Westphal. After a full season with these young guys, he'd be able to play them to their strengths so they can succeed to the best of their abiliies, while hopefully, not putting them out there for their biggest weaknesses to be exposed.

2.) Growth
We have the makings of a superstar in Tyreke, and good young talent in Casspi, Donte, & JT.
After watching these young guys play we all should have a good feel for what their games are about, and what they can do to help a team win.
With a stable coach and system, we should be taking those glimpses of talent which we witnessed last year, and see it blossom and become more consistent.
We knew that Tyreke would be working on his jump-shot, and the expectation was that all of the young guys would be working hard to fill in the holes of their game.

3.) Improved Talent
We greatly increased our talent from last year by adding Cousins, Dalembert, & Whiteside. Our biggest weakness last year was interior defense, and we secured one of the best in the NBA in Dalembert.
We also secured a potential low-post monster who could take a lot of the scoring pressure off of Tyreke and allow him to get easier points while continuing to hone his over-all game. Finally we added a potentially elite shot-blocking talent and rim protector in Whiteside.

4.) Improved Chemistry
You can only improve chemistry by playing together. I had expected that since Westphal had a full year under him, that we'd see consistent rotations, because you're never going to be an elite team until you've had the chance to play a great deal together, and the more consistent that playing is, the easier for chemistry to develop on the court.
And no matter the talent, you just aren't going to be able to beat good teams, until you've become a good team yourself, and that doesn't happen by accident.


So those were my expectations going into this year. I expected to see our young talent learn and grow together, develop chemistry, and begin to look like a team.

So far, these expectations are not remotely being met, and as much as I feel that Westphal is a good coach for this team, I'm putting most of the blame on him at this time.

I think a lot of it has to do with what's been going on with Donte and JT. I have no idea what happened with Donte. I keep hearing reports about his weight gain, and whether it was muscle or fat, or whether he was trying to improve his body to help with the season or not.
I don't know what to believe. With that said, Donte was working hard in Summer League, so it's not as if he dropped off the map. It's the coaching staff's job to make certain that their players know what is expected of them coming into the new season. There was ample time for these discussions to take place with most of the team (as most were there during summer league, even if they weren't playing), but that appears to not have taken place.

According to Westphal, JT came into camp in great shape. He hasn't been remotely consistent, but he also hasn't been put into place where he can be consistent. I don't know how you can ask someone to play Center one game, then SF the next game, and then criticize them for not being consistent in their play.
JT isn't an all-star, but he can be a very solid big-man for you. And I mean big-man, not SF.

So the stability that I had hoped would be present just isn't here. I don't know why Westphal starts the players he starts, I don't know why he decides to bring certain players off the bench, how he determines the minutes, the rotations, or anything.
Today's rotations make no sense, if you look at it from the perspective of a young team which has to learn and grow together to become a good team.

And because there doesn't seem to be much stability, it's impacting team chemistry, as well as the growth and development of our young players. We've increased our talent, but don't seem to be doing a good job of utilizing it.


At this point in time, I want to see Westphal throw all the young guys into the fire, play them consistently, let them get burned, and see what develops. I wanted to see Donte and JT grow, and I wanted to see Whiteside at least get a couple of minutes a game.
I'd love to see a line-up with Tyreke, Cousins, Greene, and Whiteside. Put in Garcia or Beno at the SG, and play that line-up for a bit.

There just seems to be sooo much potential on this team, and I haven't seen any of it extracted so far this season, and that's what's been the most frustrating.

I haven't missed a single game in years, and I'm not going to let this slow start sway me to miss a game. With the potential we have, this should be some of the most exciting times in a team's development.
At this point in time, I don't really care about wins. I just want to see something which shows that this group of basketball players are being put into a position to slowly become a team.

If 30 games in I'm not seeing that, a lot of the blame is going to have to rest on Westphal, as Petrie has done his job in bringing in talent.
Excellent post! I can't disagree with one thing in your post. You certainly summed up my thoughts, and I'm sure the thoughts of many on this fourm. Well Done!
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#38
The reason we have been losing is that the team has not been playing with any kind of fire at all. This team needs heart. They win when they play with intent to win, the last few games it does not seem like the players have cared about winning. They need to get out there and play inspired basketball.
I honestly don't think its been lack of effort. I think its been the wrong kind of effort. One look at Cousins face last night and you can see he doesn't want to lose. I see plenty of fire and passion. I just don't see results. And fire and passion don't always lead to positive results if they're not being used in a positive way. As I've said before. They look like a team of individuals far too often, instead of players all working together. For a while you can blame that on the players. But at some point you have to blame the coaching staff. When that point arrives I have no idea. I don't think its arrived just yet, but it usually broadcasts itself when it does.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#40
I think you also have to blame upper management which may have had a hand in the individualism atmosphere.
Not blame them.

Thank them. Its our route up. You can sti there and take snarky shots at Reke all day long, but this isn't his fault, nor management's. Team had excellent chemsitry last year, adn I think would still like to but there has been a rather mysterious and tone deaf ham handed handling of things by Westphal, as he ahs exiled/marginalized precisely the two guys I would have listed as core team and chemistry guys in Donte and JT.

They are kids. Rich talentd kids. They are going to be individualistic. But tlast year a one for all team chemsitry was fostered, and its been fractured for various reasons in the early going so far.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#41
Yeah, I am sorry too. Sorry that we aren't seeing any improvement from our players/coach. I know it's early so I will hold off on too much judgement, but come on...I don't think there was ONE game in the seven we played that we had a lead over ten points. Last year, we were known for playing hard and always staying in games throughout 4 quarters and falling just short in the end. Up to this point, we aren't even in striking distance when it comes to the 4th quarter with under 3-4 min. left and the game is over before it gets to the 2 minute mark in the 4th. It's definently not a good sign and I really feel that Coach Westphal is not using his personnel to their strengths. It's time for a change in the starting line up and not just one player. But, unfortunately that will not happen so I will not make any further comment on who he should start and move to the bench. I just hope that we go back to playing hard and competitive and stay in games, not start playing when we are down 10+ points.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#42
Not blame them.

Thank them. Its our route up. You can sti there and take snarky shots at Reke all day long, but this isn't his fault, nor management's. Team had excellent chemsitry last year, adn I think would still like to but there has been a rather mysterious and tone deaf ham handed handling of things by Westphal, as he ahs exiled/marginalized precisely the two guys I would have listed as core team and chemistry guys in Donte and JT.

They are kids. Rich talentd kids. They are going to be individualistic. But tlast year a one for all team chemsitry was fostered, and its been fractured for various reasons in the early going so far.
I certainly don't blame Tyreke for the current results. I blame the coaching staff, and mainly Westphal. Rightly or wrongly, how do you justify taking a player like Thompson, who is the consumate team guy. Who averaged over 30 minutes a game last year. Who was considered one of the core guys for the future. Who was told he was an important part of the team by Westphal. Who was lauded by Westphal as one of hardest working players and most improved players. Who Westphal said was one of the players in the best shape on the team. And delegate him to the end of the bench with a DNP attached to his name. Sitting next to him is another player that was considered a core player named Greene. Then you call out Cousins at halftime of the Minny game in front of his teammates for being selfish, when Landry, if anyone, was the black hole in the first half.

Is it any wonder that there's disension on the team. A team, as you pointed out had great chemistry coming into the season. If anyone destroyed it, it was Westphal. He needs to get his act together before he loses the team, if he hasn't already lost the team. Trust me folks. If the players in unision don't like the coach, they have their ways of getting him fired. He needs to fix whats broken and mend whatever fences need mending. There's a lot of talent on this team, but one wouldn't know it by watching them play.

There were some warning signs when we hired Westphal. We chose to ignore his poor showing as a college coach. We blamed his disastor in Seattle on Gary Payton. His biggest success came with the Suns, where he inherited an experienced team that he knew well. In Seattle he started tinkering and benching some of the players, and it blew up in his face by way of a players revolt led by Payton. I'm not going to diminish his success at Phoenix. He had three very good years there, but was replaced by the very man that had groomed him for the job, in Cotton Fitzsimmons.

All I'm saying is that the man had a few warts when he arrived and we all hoped that they were beauty spots. I'm not saying we should fire him. God knows we've gone through too many head coaches in the last few years. But I do think he has to re-think his approach. The Maloofs were counting on a good start to help their ticket sales at best, and an exciting team to watch even if loosing at worse. Well the early bloom is off the rose, and he needs to turn it around quickly, or we'll be listening to coach Ellie in the post game show.
 
#43
Not blame them.

Thank them. Its our route up. You can sti there and take snarky shots at Reke all day long, but this isn't his fault, nor management's. Team had excellent chemsitry last year, adn I think would still like to but there has been a rather mysterious and tone deaf ham handed handling of things by Westphal, as he ahs exiled/marginalized precisely the two guys I would have listed as core team and chemistry guys in Donte and JT.

They are kids. Rich talentd kids. They are going to be individualistic. But tlast year a one for all team chemsitry was fostered, and its been fractured for various reasons in the early going so far.
I can't even take you seriously anymore. You've lost it.
 
#44
I certainly don't blame Tyreke for the current results. I blame the coaching staff, and mainly Westphal. Rightly or wrongly, how do you justify taking a player like Thompson, who is the consumate team guy. Who averaged over 30 minutes a game last year. Who was considered one of the core guys for the future. Who was told he was an important part of the team by Westphal. Who was lauded by Westphal as one of hardest working players and most improved players. Who Westphal said was one of the players in the best shape on the team. And delegate him to the end of the bench with a DNP attached to his name. Sitting next to him is another player that was considered a core player named Greene. Then you call out Cousins at halftime of the Minny game in front of his teammates for being selfish, when Landry, if anyone, was the black hole in the first half.

Is it any wonder that there's disension on the team. A team, as you pointed out had great chemistry coming into the season. If anyone destroyed it, it was Westphal. He needs to get his act together before he loses the team, if he hasn't already lost the team. Trust me folks. If the players in unision don't like the coach, they have their ways of getting him fired. He needs to fix whats broken and mend whatever fences need mending. There's a lot of talent on this team, but one wouldn't know it by watching them play.

There were some warning signs when we hired Westphal. We chose to ignore his poor showing as a college coach. We blamed his disastor in Seattle on Gary Payton. His biggest success came with the Suns, where he inherited an experienced team that he knew well. In Seattle he started tinkering and benching some of the players, and it blew up in his face by way of a players revolt led by Payton. I'm not going to diminish his success at Phoenix. He had three very good years there, but was replaced by the very man that had groomed him for the job, in Cotton Fitzsimmons.

All I'm saying is that the man had a few warts when he arrived and we all hoped that they were beauty spots. I'm not saying we should fire him. God knows we've gone through too many head coaches in the last few years. But I do think he has to re-think his approach. The Maloofs were counting on a good start to help their ticket sales at best, and an exciting team to watch even if loosing at worse. Well the early bloom is off the rose, and he needs to turn it around quickly, or we'll be listening to coach Ellie in the post game show.
Excellent points!! Westphal, with his constant tinkering, is on the verge of losing this team. The Kings are a very young team with players that need to have some structure/consistency, in terms of minutes and positions, in order to develop. Instead, we have a head coach that doesn't know whether JT is a PF or a SF, whether Donte is a player who earned the starting SF position in Camp (at least that's what Westphal proclaimed) or if he's the 12th man on the team.

We all put up with this last year from Westphal, and chalked it up to him learning to push the right buttons with a new team. Remember how he started Desmond Mason and Sean May at the beginning of last year? Only to see Mason cut a few games later. Is he that bad at evaluating his talent? That at one point he will think that someone is good enough to start, only to find out a few games later that he shouldn't even be on the team or receive any minutes?

And then on to JT, who I believe is a good example to our younger players with his effort and determination, who gets yanked around. In the Jason Jones article today, Westphal says "he likes Thompson a lot". Since when does that translate into DNP-CD? I just don't get it.....

Darnell Jackson was allowed to brick jumper after jumper against Phoenix, yet JT couldn't even get a single minute to come in and see if he can provide a spark.

This my friends is how you lose a team......
 
Last edited:
#45
Perhaps Westphal is trying to mimick Bruce Bochy's managing style. Having the guts to bench core guys if they're in a slump, etc. That certainly worked for Bochy and even earned him respect. He's a much different personality than PW, too, though. Problem is, it works much better in baseball. I don't think it translates to a 12 man basketball team where team play and on court chemistry is so central to the game.
 
#46
To the OP,

I must say that I agree that this franchise is in bad shape right now. I went to the game on Sunday and it was a depressing experience. I thik we all know how bad the team is playing right now. There is little to no offensive or defensive team play to speak of and it is actually difficult to watch.

However, being at the game I saw something else that makes it all seem far worse. Arco, if not dead, seems to be on life support. There are many empty seats and there are times that it is so quiet the place almost echoes. It almost felt like I was in an old airport hanger that had been retro-fitted as a b-ball arena with some big bleachers and a big sub-woofer.

The thought actually went through me head that if someone who was touring NBA cities had landed in Sacramento on Sunday to watch the game they would not have believed it was the NBA. Ithink it is a dismal experience at Acro now compared to the rest of the NBA. The same can be said for life outside the Arena - or should i say the lack of life. It is really just a few strip malls that leads to empty fields.

The situation with the team is not good. However, the lack of an NBA quality experience when attending the game may even be more foreboding. I am fearful that if Stern ever experienced what I experienced on Sunday he would give the city notice before boarding his plane to return to New York.
 
#47
To the OP,

I must say that I agree that this franchise is in bad shape right now. I went to the game on Sunday and it was a depressing experience. I thik we all know how bad the team is playing right now. There is little to no offensive or defensive team play to speak of and it is actually difficult to watch.

However, being at the game I saw something else that makes it all seem far worse. Arco, if not dead, seems to be on life support. There are many empty seats and there are times that it is so quiet the place almost echoes. It almost felt like I was in an old airport hanger that had been retro-fitted as a b-ball arena with some big bleachers and a big sub-woofer.

The thought actually went through me head that if someone who was touring NBA cities had landed in Sacramento on Sunday to watch the game they would not have believed it was the NBA. Ithink it is a dismal experience at Acro now compared to the rest of the NBA. The same can be said for life outside the Arena - or should i say the lack of life. It is really just a few strip malls that leads to empty fields.

The situation with the team is not good. However, the lack of an NBA quality experience when attending the game may even be more foreboding. I am fearful that if Stern ever experienced what I experienced on Sunday he would give the city notice before boarding his plane to return to New York.
It's all relative. I was at Sunday's game and also at Wednesday's game (the previous home game). The Sunday game was uplifting compared to Wednesday's. Don't get too foreboded, once the Kings get their stuff together, and they will, Arco will be just as "NBA" as anywhere else. My ushers are super, the crowd is fun, same ARCO as always except the team is a little (maybe a lot) depressing right now.
 
K

Kingsguy881

Guest
#49
Westphal says "he likes Thompson a lot". Since when does that translate into DNP-CD? [/B]
When did JT get a DNP-CD?
Listen, being a fan of a rebuilding team is a fickle experience. Fickle because of people who expect the Kings to turn into the Lakers in 10 games. Well I have news for ALMOST ALL OF YOU. It ain't gonna happen. Get. Over. It. Move. On. Watch. Them. And. Support. Them. And. Stop. Whining. Like. 3 y/o's.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
#52
People have gone positively wacky over a slowish start. That's what you get for actually having expectations I susppose.

How people could sit throught he Muss years, the Theus years, the Natt year, and NOW get their panties all up in a bunch confuses me.
This year feels like a make or break year for Sacramento. If you had told me back in 2001 that 2011 would be here and still no arena, I wouldn't have believed you. If another year passes with dismal attendance and no plan insite, the Maloofs and Stern will pull the plug.

Also compared to West LA, Anahiem is in a whole other state. I have gone from Redding to Sacramento faster than Westwood to Anahiem. In LA driving time 30 miles ~ 2+ hours during the day. So Anahiem might be a real possiblity unfortunately.
 
K

Kingsguy881

Guest
#53
Allright, listen up. The Kings are young and putting it together. They are having growing pains. This is not a vet team. This is a young team that does not know how to win yet. Give them a year before jumping on their backs.

As far as the whole 'fire Westphal' junk, come on. Let him coach them until the AS break before you start that junk. All of Boston's fanbase wanted Doc Rivers fired and then the next season they won the championship. Fans. Geez.
 
#54
I hate to make this simplistic, but... It's the owners. Everything they do screams "Cheap!" to me. They haven't done a good job maintaining the fan experience. I had to pause to think of the right phrase here, and "maintaining the fan experience" seems appropriate. The San Francisco Giants have done a great job maintaining the fan experience. The Dodgers have, too. The Jazz.

But the Maloofs have not.

Everyone keeps forgetting that part of the reason to do the Martin-Landry trade last year was to free up all that cap space. "We" were supposed to go on a shopping spree of sorts last summer... It didn't happen. According to HoopsHype, the Kings now have the smallest player payroll in the league. So which is it? Did they send Martin to Houston for Landry and cap space, or did they do it for Landry and a whole bunch of salary savings for the Maloofs?

I keep seeing that sign on the freeway: "Bigger. Badder. Better." First time I saw one, I controlled the urge to climb up there with a can of paint and cover "Better" with "Stupider", or "Lamer", or "Cheaper."

And it also ticks me off when I see the attendance on Sunday was nearly 13,000, when one look at the TV screen shows the arena could not possibly have had 10,000 people in it -- and that's giving them the benefit of the doubt.

Yeah, I feel like this team is gone. Of course the Maloofs wouldn't announce it today, they have sales to make. But they also have a $350M payment due on the Palms, and they don't have it. They have a very large negative net worth, and if they have to choose between saving the Kings or saving the Palms, they're going with the Palms. You would too.

I honestly think that when the payment is due, Harrah's will try to buy the Kings, but the league won't allow it, and the Kings will then be league-owned. That's where a contraction could easily happen.

But everything feels cheap about this organization. Jerry Reynolds. Peaches. Everything.

I think the O/P is really onto something here.
 

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#55
Allright, listen up. The Kings are young and putting it together. They are having growing pains. This is not a vet team. This is a young team that does not know how to win yet. Give them a year before jumping on their backs.

As far as the whole 'fire Westphal' junk, come on. Let him coach them until the AS break before you start that junk. All of Boston's fanbase wanted Doc Rivers fired and then the next season they won the championship. Fans. Geez.
Completely agree. There is a difference between critiquing and analyzing what is wrong with the Kings current form, and simply saying get rid of this guy or that guy, and fire the coaching staff.

I'm shocked that others are shocked that this team is going through this right now. I had hoped they wouldn't, and not to this extent this early, but I knew it was a possibility.

Growing pains is exactly what this team is going through,and it is completely normal. Are there things which coud be better? Of course. And I don't mind debating ways to improve.

But how can someone even respond intelligently to something like "fire Paul Westphal", or "JT's garbage, trade his ***", or when Garcia is having an off night, saying "Gacia couln't cut it in the D-League"?

Just because we didn't see the improvement we would have liked to see through 9 games does not mean we need whole sale changes.
 
K

Kingsguy881

Guest
#56
Completely agree. There is a difference between critiquing and analyzing what is wrong with the Kings current form, and simply saying get rid of this guy or that guy, and fire the coaching staff.

I'm shocked that others are shocked that this team is going through this right now. I had hoped they wouldn't, and not to this extent this early, but I knew it was a possibility.

Growing pains is exactly what this team is going through,and it is completely normal. Are there things which coud be better? Of course. And I don't mind debating ways to improve.

But how can someone even respond intelligently to something like "fire Paul Westphal", or "JT's garbage, trade his ***", or when Garcia is having an off night, saying "Gacia couln't cut it in the D-League"?

Just because we didn't see the improvement we would have liked to see through 9 games does not mean we need whole sale changes.
Yep. We are 1/9th of the way through the season. Long road ahead. No reason to flip out on a young team that really ain't gonna scare anybody until next year anyway.
 
#57
Yep. We are 1/9th of the way through the season. Long road ahead. No reason to flip out on a young team that really ain't gonna scare anybody until next year anyway.
Speaking for myself, it's not the players the I was flipping out on, nor was I flipping out. I'm actually quite pleased with the talent we have on the roster.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#58
When did JT get a DNP-CD?
Listen, being a fan of a rebuilding team is a fickle experience. Fickle because of people who expect the Kings to turn into the Lakers in 10 games. Well I have news for ALMOST ALL OF YOU. It ain't gonna happen. Get. Over. It. Move. On. Watch. Them. And. Support. Them. And. Stop. Whining. Like. 3 y/o's.
JT didn't play in the Phoenix game. Coaches decision. Look, I'm a patient guy, and my complaints right now aren't about the wins and losses as much as the playing time and substitution patterns of Westphal. I'm not saying fire Westphal. I'm saying, and not that he gives a tinkers damm what I think, that he needs to revise his thinking about how he's doing some these things. I'm not going to go over the same ground again. I've said my piece. While I agree that comparing Durant and the Thunder to the current Kings works well on paper, its really meaningless. One teams success at a certain point doesn't necessarily mean another teams success at the same point. There's too many variables. One can certainly hope for it, but I wouldn't be betting my fortune on it.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#59
I hate to make this simplistic, but... It's the owners. Everything they do screams "Cheap!" to me. They haven't done a good job maintaining the fan experience. I had to pause to think of the right phrase here, and "maintaining the fan experience" seems appropriate. The San Francisco Giants have done a great job maintaining the fan experience. The Dodgers have, too. The Jazz.

But the Maloofs have not.

Everyone keeps forgetting that part of the reason to do the Martin-Landry trade last year was to free up all that cap space. "We" were supposed to go on a shopping spree of sorts last summer... It didn't happen. According to HoopsHype, the Kings now have the smallest player payroll in the league. So which is it? Did they send Martin to Houston for Landry and cap space, or did they do it for Landry and a whole bunch of salary savings for the Maloofs?

I keep seeing that sign on the freeway: "Bigger. Badder. Better." First time I saw one, I controlled the urge to climb up there with a can of paint and cover "Better" with "Stupider", or "Lamer", or "Cheaper."

And it also ticks me off when I see the attendance on Sunday was nearly 13,000, when one look at the TV screen shows the arena could not possibly have had 10,000 people in it -- and that's giving them the benefit of the doubt.

Yeah, I feel like this team is gone. Of course the Maloofs wouldn't announce it today, they have sales to make. But they also have a $350M payment due on the Palms, and they don't have it. They have a very large negative net worth, and if they have to choose between saving the Kings or saving the Palms, they're going with the Palms. You would too.

I honestly think that when the payment is due, Harrah's will try to buy the Kings, but the league won't allow it, and the Kings will then be league-owned. That's where a contraction could easily happen.

But everything feels cheap about this organization. Jerry Reynolds. Peaches. Everything.

I think the O/P is really onto something here.
Whereas I'm neither a mindreader or Clairvoyant, I can't confirm the real motive for the Martin/Landry trade. Nor do I care. It was a good trade for the team, so I'll just assume it was made for the right reasons. I have no axe to grind with that deal. Your post has little value, because its devoid of facts and full of supposition. Which is fun at times, but reveals nothing more than a persons feelings and intent. Your intent appears to bash and hammer the Kings orginization. Apparantly you find nothing to feel good about. Too bad, because I do. While I'm disappointed by some of the things I've seen, I don't think I'm ready to just dump on the whole orginization.

As far as attendence, the Kings announce sold seats. Most arena's do the same. Its not uncommon for season ticket holders to not show up for a game. I know I didn't make all my games when I was. In my case I usually found someone willing to take them off my hands. But some just don't show up because of other ingagements. By the way I happen to like Reynolds and Grant. But its OK if you don't..

As far as the league taking over the Kings. Your so far out in left field that you've left the planet. Considering what the Warriors just sold for, and what potential buyers were willing to pay, thats just a ridiculous statement.