Im Really Unhappy To Be a Kings Fan
- Thread starter Kangztillidie
- Start date
I'm not going to excuse poor picks, but it takes two to set a good pick. The player setting the pick, and the player with the ball using the pick. Too often on our team the player with the ball (not naming any names) uses the pick before it properly set. It's called timing, which comes from practice. As to who has set good picks on our team in the past, how can you forget Miller or Pollard. Zach Randolph was a pretty good pick setter.
There are picks that no one notices. Two games ago in a loss, Buddy shot a pass to Giles who was right under the basket. He shot the ball right back to Buddy, who kicked it to Ariza on the left elbow, who shot a pass to, I think, Bogi, who was open and hit a corner three. What most people didn't see was Giles who slid out and set a back screen on Bogi's man, which was what got him open. So it's easy to notice the call for a moving pick. Those are the mistakes, and they always stand out. The things you do right sometimes go unnoticed.
There are picks that no one notices. Two games ago in a loss, Buddy shot a pass to Giles who was right under the basket. He shot the ball right back to Buddy, who kicked it to Ariza on the left elbow, who shot a pass to, I think, Bogi, who was open and hit a corner three. What most people didn't see was Giles who slid out and set a back screen on Bogi's man, which was what got him open. So it's easy to notice the call for a moving pick. Those are the mistakes, and they always stand out. The things you do right sometimes go unnoticed.
Really? Just how do we demand a change, and why exactly do you think change is a good idea? Seems like we've had plenty of change in the last 10 years. Matter of fact, our franchise has been a revolving door for GM's, Coaches, and players. So how did that work out? This team has been bad for the very reason of change. Vivek came in and fired everyone, because he thought the team needed change. Change for the sake of change never works.
Change can work when you have a plan, but to implement a plan takes time, and patience. Of course when the team has been bad for as long as it has, patience runs a little thin. I have my own personal opinions on Vlade, Walton, and the make up of the team right now, but I'll keep them to myself for a bit longer. Because I'm trying to be patient, and I was a season ticket holder from this teams first season here. In short, I'm not against change, and some may be necessary. But knee jerk decisions shouldn't be made. Change should be well thought out.
In hindsight, Vivek should have asked Petrie to stay for at least one more year in order to have some stability during the change of ownership. Petrie already had scouting reports on all the college players and he had a front office in place. For those that don't know, Petrie did volunteer to come in and run the workouts for the team prior to the draft, and one of his last suggestions to Vivek was to draft this young skinny kid named Antetokumpo.
But Vivek wanted to clean house. He wanted change, and that change led to disaster. Believe me, I get where your coming from, but I've been watching NBA basketball since 1957. I've seen many teams self destruct, and I've seen teams being rebuilt. I was originally a St. Louis Hawks fan and my hero was Bob Pettit. It ripped my heart out when they moved my team to Atlanta. Then I became a Warrior fan when I moved to Sacramento in 1964.
The Warriors were a terrible team, and they were at that time, doing everything the Kings have been doing for the last ten years. But they a great player named Rick Barry. They drafted a young kid out of UCLA named Keith Wilkes. They had a 6' 9" center with long arms who would remind you of Holmes today. And others! They were picked to finish last in the western division that year. But instead, they won the western conference championships, marched into the NBA championship to play a team that was considered the best in the NBA, and projected to beat the Warriors four straight. They were right about the four straight, just had the team wrong.
That team had that magical thing called chemistry. As Petrie once said, you know when you have it, and you know when you don't. And if you don't, you have no idea how to get it. My point is, the magic can happen quickly. A team can go from being a bad or average team to a good team overnight. Sometimes it's the addition of one player, or perhaps , the removal of one player. Sometimes it's better to take some time and tinker with a team, than is it is to fire everyone. Painful as that might sound right now.
Change can work when you have a plan, but to implement a plan takes time, and patience. Of course when the team has been bad for as long as it has, patience runs a little thin. I have my own personal opinions on Vlade, Walton, and the make up of the team right now, but I'll keep them to myself for a bit longer. Because I'm trying to be patient, and I was a season ticket holder from this teams first season here. In short, I'm not against change, and some may be necessary. But knee jerk decisions shouldn't be made. Change should be well thought out.
In hindsight, Vivek should have asked Petrie to stay for at least one more year in order to have some stability during the change of ownership. Petrie already had scouting reports on all the college players and he had a front office in place. For those that don't know, Petrie did volunteer to come in and run the workouts for the team prior to the draft, and one of his last suggestions to Vivek was to draft this young skinny kid named Antetokumpo.
But Vivek wanted to clean house. He wanted change, and that change led to disaster. Believe me, I get where your coming from, but I've been watching NBA basketball since 1957. I've seen many teams self destruct, and I've seen teams being rebuilt. I was originally a St. Louis Hawks fan and my hero was Bob Pettit. It ripped my heart out when they moved my team to Atlanta. Then I became a Warrior fan when I moved to Sacramento in 1964.
The Warriors were a terrible team, and they were at that time, doing everything the Kings have been doing for the last ten years. But they a great player named Rick Barry. They drafted a young kid out of UCLA named Keith Wilkes. They had a 6' 9" center with long arms who would remind you of Holmes today. And others! They were picked to finish last in the western division that year. But instead, they won the western conference championships, marched into the NBA championship to play a team that was considered the best in the NBA, and projected to beat the Warriors four straight. They were right about the four straight, just had the team wrong.
That team had that magical thing called chemistry. As Petrie once said, you know when you have it, and you know when you don't. And if you don't, you have no idea how to get it. My point is, the magic can happen quickly. A team can go from being a bad or average team to a good team overnight. Sometimes it's the addition of one player, or perhaps , the removal of one player. Sometimes it's better to take some time and tinker with a team, than is it is to fire everyone. Painful as that might sound right now.
My point was that communities who love their teams will often look past the wins and losses, just like they did in Chicago for years. It might be hard for some to understand but the Kings are part of Sacramento's DNA - our successful effort to keep the team here (which was virtually unheard of) go a long way towards proving that relationship.
So if you want change as the Kings Fan right now the thing to do is NOT CHANGE
Seriously the Kings have had nothing but change after change for over a decade. So now the change would be to stay the course for a few years.
No change is in fact change when it comes to the Kings!
Seriously the Kings have had nothing but change after change for over a decade. So now the change would be to stay the course for a few years.No change is in fact change when it comes to the Kings!
IMO you should make changes if you dont have the correct people making the decisions. It doesnt matter how many times you made changes before, you should change the gm if that gm has obviously done a bad job. It all starts with GM, he makes the decisions. If you have a bad gm, he will make bad decisions and that will be very bad for the franchise. Imo in that case its better to fire the guy than to keep him just for the sake of stability. Best thing you can do is to learn from your mistake of hiring that guy and doing better next time.
Stability works when you have a good and smart people making the decisions and the whole organisation follows the same doctrine. Thats when stability works. Stability is great but its not great if you have incompetent people making the decisions.
I would argue that asking for Vlade to be fired is not a "knee jerk" reaction or decision. Theres a lot of stuff hes done and what he can be judged on. Imo there is a very good and rational argument for getting rid of him. Not one or two seperate mistakes but a lot of them combined with a bad overall strategy he has exectued.
Chemistry or not, being a true contender often requires certain type of top level talent. In my opinion we dont have that talent yet, not even close. "Blowing things up" doesnt neccesarily mean a drastic change. It can also mean getting a competent gm that implements a two year startegy for acquiring assets and talent while keeping the most valuable pieces of our core like Fox. Everybody can certainly have their opinion on wether the change is needed but there is a good argument on why we should make some changes.
If the fanbase thinks that Vlade is a bad gm but the argument is: "Vlade is signed for three more years so we should just accept it because ownership wont pay for him and his replacement", then the fans should be very vocal. If no one says anything, Grant keeps doing his mouthpiece segments about how its all going well even if we are winning 34 games for the 10th year in a row and fans are accepting it then yes, nothing will change if its money issue for the owner. As long as everyone is happy and people keep buying those tickets and +10$ beers, no reason to change anything.
However if there is a vocal protest from the fans about our current decision makers, local media should pick up it and maybe it will even become national news. Its not end all be all but at least its some pressure. Fans dont have much influence but there is still some.
I'm not saying anyone has to agree with me on wether Vlade should be fired but for me I will criticize incompetency whenever it happens in this organisation because I'm a fan and I'm not willing to accept incompetency or even mediocrity. Especially when incompetency seems to happen over and over again with the person that is responsible for the decision making. All I want is a competent guy as a gm handling this franchise, as a fan I will not settle for bad just because it would cost the owner some extra money
However if there is a vocal protest from the fans about our current decision makers, local media should pick up it and maybe it will even become national news. Its not end all be all but at least its some pressure. Fans dont have much influence but there is still some.
I'm not saying anyone has to agree with me on wether Vlade should be fired but for me I will criticize incompetency whenever it happens in this organisation because I'm a fan and I'm not willing to accept incompetency or even mediocrity. Especially when incompetency seems to happen over and over again with the person that is responsible for the decision making. All I want is a competent guy as a gm handling this franchise, as a fan I will not settle for bad just because it would cost the owner some extra money
Fox needs an assertive coach. Calipari and Joeger meet that description. Walton does not. Bagley is a question mark. I think our team is mediocre until proven otherwise. We should keep Fox, Holmes, James, Giles (if he will stay) and Bagley, and look at everyone else for trades, draft picks and asset accumulation. Right now Sam Hinkie looks like he is the right man for the job. I'm not sure our other talent fits our timeline so 27 y/o Hield and 27 y/o Bogdanovic may be better off traded.
As I see it, the team has two paths, the one described above if you believe it's a talent and GM issue. OR if you buy into Vlade having enough talent then the difference is Walton replacing Joeger.
I dont see how ownership is happy about all of this...Walton keeps saying he emphasizes running. Running has produced success. But even though its emphasized it's not happening....
So which is it?
1) Lack of talent/ability to compete for the playoffs
2) Coaching?
And before everyone who will say injuries, that doesnt fly. New Orleans just beat us without Zion. Every team that is successful has injuries and they win in spite of them. At this point, it has to be either 1 or 2 listed above. Which is it?
As I see it, the team has two paths, the one described above if you believe it's a talent and GM issue. OR if you buy into Vlade having enough talent then the difference is Walton replacing Joeger.
I dont see how ownership is happy about all of this...Walton keeps saying he emphasizes running. Running has produced success. But even though its emphasized it's not happening....
So which is it?
1) Lack of talent/ability to compete for the playoffs
2) Coaching?
And before everyone who will say injuries, that doesnt fly. New Orleans just beat us without Zion. Every team that is successful has injuries and they win in spite of them. At this point, it has to be either 1 or 2 listed above. Which is it?
We must face the fact that the NBA is full of talent and the Kings are really a collection of journeymen level talent for the most part. Fox stands out. I like the way Barnes is playing. Holmes and now Giles bring it every night, but alas it is often not enough.
Bonehead Buddy gave up the 4 point play to seal the deal. I losing patience with him.
I am losing patience in general. If I record the games and speed through them it is still interesting to watch.
Bonehead Buddy gave up the 4 point play to seal the deal. I losing patience with him.
I am losing patience in general. If I record the games and speed through them it is still interesting to watch.
Im right there with you. My fandom isn't dead but it is definelty on hold. Don't care what kind of fan that makes me in the eyes of many here so save your breath. Theres way too much entertainment in this sporting landscape to waste on a perpetually bad team. Until they show me that they are serious about winning ill put the majority of my time elsewhere.
Im telling you guys, the 49ers were in this same exact spot. We had gone from harbaugh, to tomasula, to chip kelley. The fan base was in full melt down mode. Fans were paying for planes to fly over the stadium with "sell the team jed" banners. The brand new levi's stadium was half full. It was a S-show. The owner, jed york, was getting pressure to fire the GM baalke, fire chip, do anything to bring back the 49er championship ways, even though there was a contingent of fans saying that that was half of our problem, that we had no consistency. We were changing coaches too often. So jed ignored the fire he was getting from all sides and fired the GM and everyone on down. He hired a GM, who hired the coach, who hired the staff he wanted. And he gave the GM and coach identical 4 year contracts. And then he did what championship owners do, he stepped back and let the football guys handle the football decisions. Surprise surprise, look where the niners are today.
If the kings ownership and FO can show that they are competent, ill come back with my money. Trading a few players or firing another coach isn't gonna do it. It starts at the top. If vivek is serious about building a winning franchise, he needs to start with firing vlade and getting someone in here who the basketball minds can agree, knows what he/she is doing. Then he needs to step away from the basketball side of things. If vivek insists on being "cutting edge" and continue to do things his silicon valley way, then he needs to be pushed out of his managing partner position by the other owners. It starts at the top.
Im telling you guys, the 49ers were in this same exact spot. We had gone from harbaugh, to tomasula, to chip kelley. The fan base was in full melt down mode. Fans were paying for planes to fly over the stadium with "sell the team jed" banners. The brand new levi's stadium was half full. It was a S-show. The owner, jed york, was getting pressure to fire the GM baalke, fire chip, do anything to bring back the 49er championship ways, even though there was a contingent of fans saying that that was half of our problem, that we had no consistency. We were changing coaches too often. So jed ignored the fire he was getting from all sides and fired the GM and everyone on down. He hired a GM, who hired the coach, who hired the staff he wanted. And he gave the GM and coach identical 4 year contracts. And then he did what championship owners do, he stepped back and let the football guys handle the football decisions. Surprise surprise, look where the niners are today.
If the kings ownership and FO can show that they are competent, ill come back with my money. Trading a few players or firing another coach isn't gonna do it. It starts at the top. If vivek is serious about building a winning franchise, he needs to start with firing vlade and getting someone in here who the basketball minds can agree, knows what he/she is doing. Then he needs to step away from the basketball side of things. If vivek insists on being "cutting edge" and continue to do things his silicon valley way, then he needs to be pushed out of his managing partner position by the other owners. It starts at the top.
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I’m used to it. I can’t shift my interest to other teams since the Kings are my team. It doesn’t feel like a choice as I owe my interest in basketball to the Kings. If I’m not focused on the Kings my interest in the NBA becomes very very casual. I’m not an individual players fan and hitching on to other wagons(the second team) has been tried in the past(when I was younger) and felt empty and I guess I feel there is more entertainment and investment in cheering for a perpetual loser than just being “I’ll follow this team now” or “I’m just an NBA fan now”
That’s not to say I would never stop watching the team. I’ve shut it down early plenty of seasons with this franchise when their losing is mixed with lack of entertainment and no players to watch. Virtually when every player on the roster is guy that has no future with the team.
That’s not to say I would never stop watching the team. I’ve shut it down early plenty of seasons with this franchise when their losing is mixed with lack of entertainment and no players to watch. Virtually when every player on the roster is guy that has no future with the team.
The OP said "Bad"... If you want to start a poll, then you need to differentiate. If I were to do it, I'd probably use "excellent" "very good" "average" "less than average" and "horrible" but to be honest, I'm just not that invested in creating a poll of that sort and then having to wade through the inevitable and predictable responses from the same select group. It would be a poll without real substantive results since the vocal Vlade haters are much more likely to take part. (Just my semi-educated opinion, btw.)
Yeah, it’s happened. I thought I’d stick around after my most recent temper tantrum. That once I started watching, the care would return, I’d watch, I’d root, I’d be a fan again.
But there was none of that tonight. When it was clear Giles was out for the remainder of the game I didn’t care. I wasn’t rooting. And I changed the channel and didn’t look back.
I think I’m just rooting for players now. And I feel like I should be sad after so many years.... my entire life... but I’m not.
::shrugs::
Go Giles.
But there was none of that tonight. When it was clear Giles was out for the remainder of the game I didn’t care. I wasn’t rooting. And I changed the channel and didn’t look back.
I think I’m just rooting for players now. And I feel like I should be sad after so many years.... my entire life... but I’m not.
::shrugs::
Go Giles.