If the draft is today and Cousins is gone- your pick at #5

[funkykingston]

Leaving aside the defensive end of the floor, how would you compare Johnson's offensive game to Kevin Martin's offensive game?

The biggest difference to me is that Johnson shoots best off the dribble and has a very good midrange game while Martin is much better at drawing contact on drives to the hoop. Johnson has lift and can take the ball to the hoop but doesn't do so nearly as well as Martin who is such an efficient scorer largely because he does get to the line so well.

Johnson has a smoother shot with a higher release point and can get it off in traffic. But while smooth and quick, he's nowhere near the blur that

Martin has always been primarily a catch and shoot guy whether as a spot up or by moving without the ball and his quickness means that guys playing him tight would get backcut or see him drive past them to the basket.

Johnson can create his own shot much better and to me has a more rounded offensive game. He also is a much better and more willing passer.

I don't see Johnson putting up Martin like scoring numbers or being nearly as efficient in terms of the number of shots he needs to get his points. But very few players in the league are - that's what makes Kevin a good player.

I don't think you'll ever see Johnson in the top 10 as far as scoring. But I think he'll be a very reliable second or third option and the things he does besides scoring (passing, playing defense, rebounding) will make him a better fit alongside Tyreke than Martin ever would have been. And part of that is mentality. Kevin Martin sees himself as a scorer, and I don't blame him - it's his bread and butter and he's good at it. I think Johnson is much more willing to play the role that the team asks him to play.

 

[Sparky6string]

I agree that we need elite talent, but I seriously question if Johnson is that guy. Will he ever be an all star? Im leaning towards no.

In fact, if you consider Johnsons position as a SF ( I think everyone would agree thats his primary spot ) .. Im not even sure that if we draft him, he'd be the best prospect on our team at that position. Donte Greene is taller and younger .. they can both shoot, both defend .. I think Johnson is a better player right now, but he is a year or so older. And dont forget Casspi had a pretty good rookie season too.

Trading down can help us in a lot of ways. I think there is a big group of players, from picks 5 to around 20 were the talent level is pretty close. If we did trade down we could acquire another pick, rid ourself of the Nocioni contract .. get a future first .. its impossible to predict what trading down would be worth right now, but I hope we explore that option if Cousins is gone.


Here is what I mean .. if we traded down and accomplished something, I'd be happy with one of these guys .. especially one of the bigs.

Aldrich
Monroe
Udoh
Alabi
Bradley
Richards
George
Henry
Davis
Aminu
Whiteside
Bledsoe
Babbit
Patterson

Will those guys be all stars? I don't find that to be a good reason to pick someone, because what if you can't see anyone being an all star in the draft? You don't pick? And Tyreke wasn't an all star last year but he was pretty good- being an all star isn't everything. There's a lot of guys on that list I like though.

My continuing philosophy regarding the draft is that I just hope we escape with a quality usable player- whether that be a starter or a bench player. Too many picks are total busts or just don't work for the team.

I do think Johnson is the best prospect at SF or SG out of all our guys by a long shot. Greene shouldn't ever preclude another player because of his versatility- use him at 2,3 or even 4 at stretches. If nothing else I say draft him and we'll work it out later.

I do like Udoh but I think I liked him better the first time around when his name was Jason Thompson. IMO he actually is a little soft, he can pass very well though and isn't bad overall I guess. I'd take him over Davis or Monroe but I'd want Aminu and Aldrich over him.

EDIT: Had to add this- The thing that impressed me the most about Udoh in his interviews was that he used the word "work" a lot. I think he said that word more than any other- he really seems to want to work hard which is a big plus.

 

[Sparky6string]

The biggest difference to me is that Johnson shoots best off the dribble and has a very good midrange game while Martin is much better at drawing contact on drives to the hoop. Johnson has lift and can take the ball to the hoop but doesn't do so nearly as well as Martin who is such an efficient scorer largely because he does get to the line so well.

Johnson has a smoother shot with a higher release point and can get it off in traffic. But while smooth and quick, he's nowhere near the blur that

Martin has always been primarily a catch and shoot guy whether as a spot up or by moving without the ball and his quickness means that guys playing him tight would get backcut or see him drive past them to the basket.

Johnson can create his own shot much better and to me has a more rounded offensive game. He also is a much better and more willing passer.

I don't see Johnson putting up Martin like scoring numbers or being nearly as efficient in terms of the number of shots he needs to get his points. But very few players in the league are - that's what makes Kevin a good player.

I don't think you'll ever see Johnson in the top 10 as far as scoring. But I think he'll be a very reliable second or third option and the things he does besides scoring (passing, playing defense, rebounding) will make him a better fit alongside Tyreke than Martin ever would have been. And part of that is mentality. Kevin Martin sees himself as a scorer, and I don't blame him - it's his bread and butter and he's good at it. I think Johnson is much more willing to play the role that the team asks him to play.

Fair enough, but what about defensively? Martin was a liability to say the least whereas Johnson is a very solid defender.

I don't see Johnson in top 10 of scoring either- he's a complementary player. He's the wing guy we have wanted. He stays out of the way well which is cool but can be the focus if he wants. Dammit he just rocks and I do hope we get him.

 

[pshn80]

My continuing philosophy regarding the draft is that I just hope we escape with a quality usable player- whether that be a starter or a bench player. Too many picks are total busts or just don't work for the team.

I do think Johnson is the best prospect at SF or SG out of all our guys by a long shot. Greene shouldn't ever preclude another player because of his versatility- use him at 2,3 or even 4 at stretches. If nothing else I say draft him and we'll work it out later.

I certainly agree with your hope - get quality somewhere, I guess that means BSFPA (best sure fire player available). And I particularly agree that we can't let Greene color our pick.

 

[funkykingston]

Fair enough, but what about defensively? Martin was a liability to say the least whereas Johnson is a very solid defender.

I don't see Johnson in top 10 of scoring either- he's a complementary player. He's the wing guy we have wanted. He stays out of the way well which is cool but can be the focus if he wants. Dammit he just rocks and I do hope we get him.

Well, the question I was answering explicitly said, "ignoring the defensive end" so I was ignoring the defensive end.

I think Johnson will be a very good defender. He's long, has good lateral quickness, a high BB IQ and has he right attitude. That said, he's going to have to develop on that end. If he was moved to SG he'd have to defend guards and would have to adjust to the speed of the NBA game. He was a SF/PF for Boeheim and that's a transition. And that's without even mentioning that Syracuse exclusively plays zone. I wouldn't look for WJ to be a good defender (or even a decent one) early on, but I think he will be very solid or even great eventually.

 

[Sparky6string]

Well, the question I was answering explicitly said, "ignoring the defensive end" so I was ignoring the defensive end.

I think Johnson will be a very good defender. He's long, has good lateral quickness, a high BB IQ and has he right attitude. That said, he's going to have to develop on that end. If he was moved to SG he'd have to defend guards and would have to adjust to the speed of the NBA game. He was a SF/PF for Boeheim and that's a transition. And that's without even mentioning that Syracuse exclusively plays zone. I wouldn't look for WJ to be a good defender (or even a decent one) early on, but I think he eventually will be very solid or even great eventually.

Gotchya lol sorry.

I think he'll be quite good at that immediately, at least by our standards of defense at that position. It's true that he'll have to guard those quick little 2 guards and that could be trouble but his length should help him at any rate. With these possible mismatches on our team we would need team defense more than ever probably.

 

[Kingster]

Fair enough, but what about defensively? Martin was a liability to say the least whereas Johnson is a very solid defender.

I don't see Johnson in top 10 of scoring either- he's a complementary player. He's the wing guy we have wanted. He stays out of the way well which is cool but can be the focus if he wants. Dammit he just rocks and I do hope we get him.

He was asked by me just about his offensive game. That's why the entire post is devoted to that end of the floor.

 

[Kingster]

The biggest difference to me is that Johnson shoots best off the dribble and has a very good midrange game while Martin is much better at drawing contact on drives to the hoop. Johnson has lift and can take the ball to the hoop but doesn't do so nearly as well as Martin who is such an efficient scorer largely because he does get to the line so well.

Johnson has a smoother shot with a higher release point and can get it off in traffic. But while smooth and quick, he's nowhere near the blur that

Martin has always been primarily a catch and shoot guy whether as a spot up or by moving without the ball and his quickness means that guys playing him tight would get backcut or see him drive past them to the basket.

Johnson can create his own shot much better and to me has a more rounded offensive game. He also is a much better and more willing passer.

I don't see Johnson putting up Martin like scoring numbers or being nearly as efficient in terms of the number of shots he needs to get his points. But very few players in the league are - that's what makes Kevin a good player.

I don't think you'll ever see Johnson in the top 10 as far as scoring. But I think he'll be a very reliable second or third option and the things he does besides scoring (passing, playing defense, rebounding) will make him a better fit alongside Tyreke than Martin ever would have been. And part of that is mentality. Kevin Martin sees himself as a scorer, and I don't blame him - it's his bread and butter and he's good at it. I think Johnson is much more willing to play the role that the team asks him to play.

It's interesting that you think Johnson can create his shot much better than Martin. The conventional wisdom with Johnson is that he's not good at creating his own shot. I didn't see that much of Johnson, but I didn't see him create his own shot either. I'm just concerned about the ball-handling. Right now, we basically have one guy that can get his shot on a consistent basis in Tyreke. Beno is 2nd. If Beno isn't the 2 guard with Tyreke, then the guy that takes his place has to be a pretty good ball handler or we have a first team with one good ball handler, and I just don't think that's going to cut it unless you really think Johnson is the guy. The reason I liked Turner so much is that I'm very confident he could be that guy.

 

[funkykingston]

It's interesting that you think Johnson can create his shot much better than Martin. The conventional wisdom with Johnson is that he's not good at creating his own shot. I didn't see that much of Johnson, but I didn't see him create his own shot either.

He's not Kobe Bryant and he's not a guy that I would run isolation plays for and expect to have him get you a tough two points, but after all I'm comparing him to Kevin Martin.

Johnson prefers to shoot off the dribble, has a solid jab step and can elevate to shoot over the top of most defenders. Again, he's not a one on one player but he has a better ability to take the ball and get himself a decent look than KMart does.

To me Turner and Johnson both present good and bad qualities in terms of pairing them with Tyreke.

Turner gives another player who definitely can create his own shot, a great ballhandling SG who can take pressure off Tyreke and a very good passer. But he also is very ball dominant and doesn't provide much in the way of outside shooting, which the Kings need at the other guard spot.

Johnson provides great outside shooting, doesn't need the ball in his hands to be effective, is a willing passer (though not nearly as talented as Turner) and has the skills and temperament of a complimentary player. But he is not a great ballhandler, isn't a one on one player, will need extra time to develop as a defender (though I think he'll ultimately be a good one) and doesn't jump out at me as a future star.

Of the two, Johnson's skills seem a better fit alongside Tyreke even though Turner is a more talented prospect. I wish he was a stronger ballhandler and one-on-one player but the biggest thing for me is that a starting backcourt where both players are poor outside shooters and need the ball in their hands to be effective spells disaster.

 

[Hallama]

Of the two, Johnson's skills seem a better fit alongside Tyreke even though Turner is a more talented prospect. I wish he was a stronger ballhandler and one-on-one player but the biggest thing for me is that a starting backcourt where both players are poor outside shooters and need the ball in their hands to be effective spells disaster.

Totally agree about WJ being a perfect compliment to Tyreke. The Kings have made a very public push that Tyreke is the man for now and the future, so guys like WJ are a perfect fit alongside of him. I like WJ because he does a lot good things without the ball on offense - spot up shooter, alley-oop catcher, fast break finisher - and does a lot of good things on D as well. Is he going to be that much better than Casspi or Greene, or if he can play some two is probably what Petrie is pondering.

I also think Aldrich is another guy who fits into the Tyreke Kings plans, but that is another post for another thread....

 

[ovrush]

I've been on the Johnson bandwagon for a while. One thing I'll say that caught my eye from a recent article was Johnson saying his favorite player growing up was Scottie Pippen and that's who he modeled his game after. I thought that was a great statement for a guy who we want to come in and be the #2 option to Tyreke who will clearly be the man on this team (granted we'd rather he be a shooting guard than a 3)

After Johnson I think it's a big dropoff and I hope we don't bother but I guess Id go:

Johnson
Udoh
Davis

 

[Emma]

Johnson
Aminu

and we'll see how the others fare in the coming weeks