Ideal Small Forward

[bajaden]

Too subtle. Dallas thought he was past his prime and his best years were after age 32 to give a direct comparison to Battier.

There is a difference. Nash relies on his skill level for the most part, while what Battier does, requires a lot of athletic ability. I would also say that Nash is the exception, and not the rule, so I'm not sure its a good comparison. I like Battier, but I've been watching him for some time, and its my opinion that his abilities have declined a little. Defense is all about reflex action and athleticism. It doesn't take much of a loss, to make you average. Being a baseball player, I can tell you that one day, you can get around on a 92 mile per hour fast ball, and suddenly the next day you can't. Sports are unforgiving, and whichever sport your good at, will let you know when your time is up.

 

[Glenn]

There is a difference. Nash relies on his skill level for the most part, while what Battier does, requires a lot of athletic ability. I would also say that Nash is the exception, and not the rule, so I'm not sure its a good comparison. I like Battier, but I've been watching him for some time, and its my opinion that his abilities have declined a little. Defense is all about reflex action and athleticism. It doesn't take much of a loss, to make you average. Being a baseball player, I can tell you that one day, you can get around on a 92 mile per hour fast ball, and suddenly the next day you can't. Sports are unforgiving, and whichever sport your good at, will let you know when your time is up.

So does that mean we scratch Battier from our list of possibilities?

 

[Big Cuz 15]

A Healthy Francisco Garcia, anyone???? D's it up, hit's the 3 ball, good to very good ball-handler, veteran leader. I think he's the ideal candidate to fill the bulk of the 3 minutes. But that's just me.

he weighs like 200 lbs and is better at the 2 position. it was sad watching paul pierce just have his way with cisco.

 

[Bricklayer]

A Healthy Francisco Garcia, anyone???? D's it up, hit's the 3 ball, good to very good ball-handler, veteran leader. I think he's the ideal candidate to fill the bulk of the 3 minutes. But that's just me.

Makes sense as a veteran/locker room backup, but you just have to do better than that as a starter. He's really more 2 than 3, is not physical and can't rebound, and gets lit up in certain matchups. He's not remotely in a AK47 or Prince class, and that is the sort of palyer we have the chance to pick up this summer. Guys who are elite at what they do, not just fill in guys,

 

[bajaden]

So does that mean we scratch Battier from our list of possibilities?

No, I didn't say that. Its just that he's not my first choice. But if you do sign him, I think you have to take everything into consideration, like his age etc. The last thing this team needs to do, is sign an aging vetrean to a contract over 2 years for a lot of money and then not have him perform up to the standards you expected. Remember, all your looking to get from Battier is above average defense at the SF position, and sometimes the SG position. And, the ability to hit the open shot when needed. So can he do that, and if so, for how much longer?

His production the last two years has declined slightly, but not enough to throw up any red flags. His production since the trade has dramaticly declined, but that probably has more to do with unfamiliarity than anything else. Another question you always have to ask, is will playing in another system affect his results. He's always been a durable player, so we know he takes care of his body. Bottom line, is that anytime you sign an older player your taking a gamble. If the player is a spot up shooter, then the gamble is less. Especially if surrounded by other good offensive players. If the player is someone that relies on his athletic skills to perform, then I think you have to be more careful.

Look how quickly Mitch Richmond went from elite, to below average. It does happen.

 

[bajaden]

Makes sense as a veteran/locker room backup, but you just have to do better than that as a starter. He's really more 2 than 3, is not physical and can't rebound, and gets lit up in certain matchups. He's not remotely in a AK47 or Prince class, and that is the sort of palyer we have the chance to pick up this summer. Guys who are elite at what they do, not just fill in guys,

This!

 

[Glenn]

No, I didn't say that. Its just that he's not my first choice. But if you do sign him, I think you have to take everything into consideration, like his age etc. The last thing this team needs to do, is sign an aging vetrean to a contract over 2 years for a lot of money and then not have him perform up to the standards you expected. Remember, all your looking to get from Battier is above average defense at the SF position, and sometimes the SG position. And, the ability to hit the open shot when needed. So can he do that, and if so, for how much longer?

His production the last two years has declined slightly, but not enough to throw up any red flags. His production since the trade has dramaticly declined, but that probably has more to do with unfamiliarity than anything else. Another question you always have to ask, is will playing in another system affect his results. He's always been a durable player, so we know he takes care of his body. Bottom line, is that anytime you sign an older player your taking a gamble. If the player is a spot up shooter, then the gamble is less. Especially if surrounded by other good offensive players. If the player is someone that relies on his athletic skills to perform, then I think you have to be more careful.

Look how quickly Mitch Richmond went from elite, to below average. It does happen.

I never said he was my first choice. My first choice stated over and over is AK47.

 

[DesertFox]

No, I didn't say that. Its just that he's not my first choice. But if you do sign him, I think you have to take everything into consideration, like his age etc. The last thing this team needs to do, is sign an aging vetrean to a contract over 2 years for a lot of money and then not have him perform up to the standards you expected. Remember, all your looking to get from Battier is above average defense at the SF position, and sometimes the SG position. And, the ability to hit the open shot when needed. So can he do that, and if so, for how much longer?

His production the last two years has declined slightly, but not enough to throw up any red flags. His production since the trade has dramaticly declined, but that probably has more to do with unfamiliarity than anything else. Another question you always have to ask, is will playing in another system affect his results. He's always been a durable player, so we know he takes care of his body. Bottom line, is that anytime you sign an older player your taking a gamble. If the player is a spot up shooter, then the gamble is less. Especially if surrounded by other good offensive players. If the player is someone that relies on his athletic skills to perform, then I think you have to be more careful.

Look how quickly Mitch Richmond went from elite, to below average. It does happen.

Yeah, first choice is acquiring a true starter in his prime, be it through FA or trading a pick + Casspi/filler.
But I have no problem slightly overpaying for a Battier or Grant Hill, provided the Kings keep the lottery pick and get a swingman to develop behind them.

In either scenario, they need to move Casspi and/or Greene/Garcia too.

 

[Glenn]

Yeah, first choice is acquiring a true starter in his prime, be it through FA or trading a pick + Casspi/filler.
But I have no problem slightly overpaying for a Battier or Grant Hill, provided the Kings keep the lottery pick and get a swingman to develop behind them.

In either scenario, they need to move Casspi and/or Greene/Garcia too.

This is kind of what I was trying to say except I didn't include my preference for AK47 in the body of the note. Just the note directly above. The ONLY point I was trying to make was that Battier didn't look as bad as I originally was thinking he was because of what was new knowledge to me. He didn't want to be a leader in high school!

I wouldn't be surprised to see two SFs being traded and it is a necessity that one is traded. We can survive with too many SFs if one is Greene 'cause he doesn't seem to care all that much which is more a weakness than a strength but in this case, adds no urgency in moving him. Casspi is a whole different story from a skill set stand point and his need to be a big part of the team and not simply one of the bottom three. Casspi is a distraction.

 

[bajaden]

I never said he was my first choice. My first choice stated over and over is AK47.

I wasn't commenting on your first choice. I was commenting on mine. I had no idea who yours was when I posted.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

I'm all for AK47, but how much $$$ will he want at this point in his career at 30 years old?

 

[OPrime]

I'm guessing he'll get a 3-4 year deal worth about $7 million per season. I figure the Kings would have to give him at least that to sign him, teams will be afraid of how fragile he is but he can definitely still play when he's healthy.

 

[Glenn]

AK47 makes almost $18 mil per year this year. Start your calculations using that as a reference as it is HIS reference point. He is 30 and hardly past his prime. In fact, he may be playing the best basketball you can expect him to ever play if he is anywhere near an averge 30 year old NBA player. I am not saying that you pay him the same amount or even that he would demand that but the Kings are not a destination of choice and the Kings may have to pay more than a larger city. He is not going to settle for less than half of what he now makes.

 

[bajaden]

AK47 makes almost $18 mil per year this year. Start your calculations using that as a reference as it is HIS reference point. He is 30 and hardly past his prime. In fact, he may be playing the best basketball you can expect him to ever play if he is anywhere near an averge 30 year old NBA player. I am not saying that you pay him the same amount or even that he would demand that but the Kings are not a destination of choice and the Kings may have to pay more than a larger city. He is not going to settle for less than half of what he now makes.

Before we speculate, we need to know whats in the new CBA. There may be salary restrictions, and length of contract resrictions, as well as how many years are guaranteed. Your also looking at what the market will bear. He may want 12 mil, but if no team is willing, or below the cap enough to offer that, its possible he may have to settle for less. The whole trick is not to bid against yourself.

 

[Glenn]

I hope there are individual salary restrictions.

In 2013-14 Kobe will make $30 mil. In his life time he will make $280 mil not counting ad money. How much is enough? What teams can afford it? Not many. We whine over $10 mil but Kobe's salary would buy us 3 of those players.

This league will be a perpetual rich man's game or should I say, is a rich man's game. There are teams that are not large market who have done well but on the whole, if you are large market, you can pay what you wish and still make a profit. I am sure as mismanaged as the Knicks have been with huge salaries, they still make a profit. It may depend on whether the NBA can tolerate an NBA Finals of OKC against the Hornets instead of Boston against the Lakers. There is far more money to divvy up if the large markets play each other at the end of the year. This playoff money gets split among the teams that make the playoffs and is a huge incentive to have 7 game playoffs between the large market teams.

The revenue sharing will depend on whether the NBA wants the league to have parity and the CBA may depend a little on that also. I would settle for a very long lock out if sanity returned as a result of it.

The end result is selfish as I want Sacramento to be on more of a level playing field.

 

[KingsCitizen]

Here's another SF at the wrong side of 30's.

James Posey, remember that guy who won championships with Boston and Miami? He's with Indiana now and will be an ender next season. A very good role player that plays team game, good defense, rebounds, and hits anywhere(if he's hot).

If we keep Greene, Posey is someone that he should pattern his game. And having this guy for a year isn't worth that much of a risk. Since Indiana is short on the PG spot next season, Beno for Posey straight up should work.

 

[TheWileyVet]

It seems like the ideal team changing SFs like Granger or Batum are probably unavailable or too costly. Or both.

What about sign Battier and trade 1st + Casspi/Greene for the pick to draft Derrick Williams? Assuming he goes 2 and we get the 5 I'd say that's reasonable. We'd get the vet glue guy AND add another young talent to complete our own homegrown big 3.

Resign Thorton and Dalembert and I'd say we'd have a pretty successful off season.

 

[DesertFox]

Here's another SF at the wrong side of 30's.

James Posey, remember that guy who won championships with Boston and Miami? He's with Indiana now and will be an ender next season. A very good role player that plays team game, good defense, rebounds, and hits anywhere(if he's hot).

If we keep Greene, Posey is someone that he should pattern his game. And having this guy for a year isn't worth that much of a risk. Since Indiana is short on the PG spot next season, Beno for Posey straight up should work.

eh, to be honest I don't think straight up that's a great deal. If the team was dead set on using the lottery pick on a PG then it wouldn't be bad, I just don't think Posey's an upgrade even as a backup.

But I do like the idea of acquiring those cagey vets (as overrated as I think those things tend to be), and a 4th big for spot minutes would be great.
ie Juwan Howard/Joe Smith types.

 

[Asaf]

It may depend on whether the NBA can tolerate an NBA Finals of OKC against the Hornets instead of Boston against the Lakers.

As far as I can remember, the NBA has never tolerated an NBA finals between teams from the same conference...

 

[Glenn]

As far as I can remember, the NBA has never tolerated an NBA finals between teams from the same conference...

I hope you got my point despite this error and yes, I know they are in the same conference. That doesn't effect the point I was making. I'll try to do better next time.

 

[Asaf]

I hope you got my point despite this error and yes, I know they are in the same conference. That doesn't effect the point I was making. I'll try to do better next time.

Of course I got the point. I was just being a smartass...

 

[bajaden]

Here's another SF at the wrong side of 30's.

James Posey, remember that guy who won championships with Boston and Miami? He's with Indiana now and will be an ender next season. A very good role player that plays team game, good defense, rebounds, and hits anywhere(if he's hot).

If we keep Greene, Posey is someone that he should pattern his game. And having this guy for a year isn't worth that much of a risk. Since Indiana is short on the PG spot next season, Beno for Posey straight up should work.

Who do we replace Beno with? Right now he's a big part of a three guard rotation. Not saying you can't trade him, but your giving up youth for older experience at a different position. Now if we get lucky and draft Irving, then I can see this trade happening, although I'm starting to wonder just how good Posey is. He's had an impact one time in his career with one team, and hasn't been the same player since leaving that team.

 

[bajaden]

Of course I got the point. I was just being a smartass...

Thats better than being a jackass!

 

[Bricklayer]

Who do we replace Beno with? Right now he's a big part of a three guard rotation. Not saying you can't trade him, but your giving up youth for older experience at a different position. Now if we get lucky and draft Irving, then I can see this trade happening, although I'm starting to wonder just how good Posey is. He's had an impact one time in his career with one team, and hasn't been the same player since leaving that team.

I didn't even catch that.

Peeps, quit making stupid trade proposals involving Beno. He's an important part of what we are trying to do here. Not untradeble by any means, but efforts to dump him for old broken down garbage are just that, garbage. He's the third guard, and a key stabilizing vet. Unless your proposal can bring back same, its really not going to work.

 

[Hoovtrain]

I didn't even catch that.

Peeps, quit making stupid trade proposals involving Beno. He's an important part of what we are trying to do here. Not untradeble by any means, but efforts to dump him for old broken down garbage are just that, garbage. He's the third guard, and a key stabilizing vet. Unless your proposal can bring back same, its really not going to work.

I personally think Beno is our most consistent player. He is the one I am most confident in as a stabilizer when things start to go south during games. Now that we have Thornton, Beno can thrive in the ideal role for him, backup PG.