I dont get it

[Spok22]

Westphaul is juggling the starting lineup again.

G Head
G Tyreke
F Landry
F Greene
C Dalembert


Head. I didnt get a chance to watch Wednesday's game but last time i checked Head was nowhere close to being starter material, AT ALL. (Chucking threes) I heard he did pretty good last game but is that really case for the starting position. On a team of such inconsistency is it really a smart idea to reward an obvious bench player with starting position just because he had one good game?
And then Greene. Greene?? So he goes from starting lineup day 1 of the season to 11/12 man with little to no playing time has one good game(or so i hear) and all of a sudden hes back to "starting for the foreseeable future" ? Just wow.

Chemistry and consistency. Has westphaul even heard of these words? I no Casspi and Beno cant be too pleased after this move...

 

[91sickness]

After watching Wednesday's game I said Westphal BETTER put Donte in the starting lineup and take JT out (who was starting at the 3). Donte played the last 20 minutes of the game and was productive on both sides of the floor. He brought a lot of hustle and energy and showed he is clearly out best option right now at the 3. He passed up on a few open looks and you could tell he was hesitant to shoot as he didnt want to get yanked out. Hopefully now that he is the starting SF for the "foreseeable future" he can get into a solid rhythm offensively and help settle down Westphals crazy rotations. Our best lineup Wednesday night was beno reke donte landry n cousins, hopefully cousins can continue to play 30+ minutes and stay out of foul trouble.

 

[The Hammer]

Head is a good role player who can defend. He is a veteran who understands team play. He can shoot well enough. He's not a black hole on offense and can move the ball. He can handle the ball well enough. He hustles and plays hard. He hits free throws. He's not a turnover machine.

That basically describes the role of at least one player from all successful teams. Fisher for the Lakers. Fisher would not be "starter material" probably on any other team. But he's a vet, knows their system, and does all the basic things well enough, most importantly probably playing decent defense.

 

[pshn80]

Westphaul is juggling the starting lineup again.

G Head
G Tyreke
F Landry
F Greene
C Dalembert


Head. I didnt get a chance to watch Wednesday's game but last time i checked Head was nowhere close to being starter material, AT ALL. (Chucking threes) I heard he did pretty good last game but is that really case for the starting position. On a team of such inconsistency is it really a smart idea to reward an obvious bench player with starting position just because he had one good game?
And then Greene. Greene?? So he goes from starting lineup day 1 of the season to 11/12 man with little to no playing time has one good game(or so i hear) and all of a sudden hes back to "starting for the foreseeable future" ? Just wow.

Chemistry and consistency. Has westphaul even heard of these words? I no Casspi and Beno cant be too pleased after this move...

"IT" isn't very mysterious, the Kings aren't winning and they haven't played very well. We will keep getting different lineups until some combo steps forward. Not rocket science but, also, it's not easy coaching a losing team.

 

[Asaf]

"IT" isn't very mysterious, the Kings aren't winning and they haven't played very well. We will keep getting different lineups until some combo steps forward. Not rocket science but, also, it's not easy coaching a losing team.

The problem is, the chances of one combo stepping forward are slim to none. For a combo to be consistently effective, that combo has to play together for a while and get used to playing with one another. If you keep changing your lineups while all the other teams are developing chemistry, then you're just going to be left behind. I can guarantee that Head, for example, won't last as a starter for more than 2-3 games, so then you have to change the lineup again. At this pace, the 17-win season won't look so bad anymore - at least the Kings beat the Lakers that season...

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Not saying I agree with this much shuffling, but I do understand the Westphal said you gotta play D to get playing time and this looks like the lineup that may reflect that.

 

[rhythmless]

This puts your bench @

Beno
Garcia
Casspi
JT
Cousins

Anybody else loving that bench lineup? You have 3 pt shooting, postups, elbow jumpers, good screeners, ball handlers, slashers and defense. Good size and very balanced.

 

[Kingster]

This puts your bench @

Beno
Garcia
Casspi
JT
Cousins

Anybody else loving that bench lineup? You have 3 pt shooting, postups, elbow jumpers, good screeners, ball handlers, slashers and defense. Good size and very balanced.

Good point. We should be having a lot more posts on "Ending Lineups". That's what I'm going to look at - who is in there in the last 8-9 minutes of the game?

 

[Lockehead]

Head is obviously not starter material on other teams, but he is on this team because what other choices do we have? He can at the very least like Hammer mentioned make his free throws, play D, and get ball movement.

Beno would also be playing alongside the second unit, which is good.

 

[asakkings]

I would like to see the starting line up of: Cousins/JT/Greene/Cisco/Reke for couple of games. There is defense and scoring in that group. The bench will be good with a scoring duo of Landy/Beno/Casspi and the defense of Dalembert.

 

[IfAt1st]

Why such focus on who starts for this team?

PW has proven that he pulls people when they aren't performing on any given night.
So all the "starters" get is the 1st chance that night of proving their game is on. When they aren't he puts someone else in and they get their chance.

I'm pretty sure many times the starters don't get the lion's share of the minutes with PW.
So what's the big deal?

 

[SacTownKid]

This puts your bench @

Beno
Garcia
Casspi
JT
Cousins

Anybody else loving that bench lineup? You have 3 pt shooting, postups, elbow jumpers, good screeners, ball handlers, slashers and defense. Good size and very balanced.

And there's still no way that they all play minutes due of course.

As for Head, I think he's actually been playing pretty well aside from unusual and untimely chucking here and there. Beno's D has been just laughable so it's nice to see someone that can actually stay in front of his man most of the time.

 

[swisshh]

Westphal has a fever and the only cure is more lineups.

 

[alpinegroove]

This puts your bench @

Beno
Garcia
Casspi
JT
Cousins

Anybody else loving that bench lineup? You have 3 pt shooting, postups, elbow jumpers, good screeners, ball handlers, slashers and defense. Good size and very balanced.

Who knows what Casspi's position is at the moment. Perhaps he has switched places with Greene and will be sent to the end of the bench, especially since just two days ago JT was our starting SF. So it's quite possible that PW will try to use JT as Greene's backup at SF and not as a PF backup.

 

[rhythmless]

And there's still no way that they all play minutes due of course.

As for Head, I think he's actually been playing pretty well aside from unusual and untimely chucking here and there. Beno's D has been just laughable so it's nice to see someone that can actually stay in front of his man most of the time.

The problem is that there is no pecking order because frankly, were not that good right now. Talent wise (not potential talent), everyone is about the same, save for Reke. Cousins can't guard, Dalembert can't score. Beno can't guard, Head can't shoot consistently. Landry can't rebound, Thompson can't get out of his own way. Casspi gets tunnel vision, Donte isn't consistent.

You have a lot of talent, but it's dispersed quite evenly in the guys we have. That is part of the reason PW is juggling lineups. Who is the starter, Casspi or Greene? Who is producing better, Head or Garcia? What do you want from your C, consistency and defense, or offense? There is no clear cut winner.

Everyone here in KFland wants to play the kids, play the ones who are the future, but you have to understand that there is value in winning and playing the guys who are producing. The problem is, is that we have everyone all mixed up, and they come out more often than not, about even. So who do you play?

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I would like to see the starting line up of: Cousins/JT/Greene/Cisco/Reke for couple of games.

I really do think (or hope?) this is what they are working towards but the play consistency hasn't been there. And if Cousins and JT both get into foul trouble early then you're yanking 2 starters anyways. This sadly is where the team really does cry out for veteran leadership.

 

[pshn80]

Last game Head and JT started. I read a post in the last day saying that that starting lineup locked the opponent down and we had a very good first quarter. Then the bench came in and lost a 40 point second quarter. Of course that wasn't how it happened. I would have liked the coach to put the original starters back in to stop the bleeding. If I remember correctly that didn't happen.

I really think starting Head is simply a strategy to halt bad defensive beginnings. Their intention was and is to play Beno lots but not start him. It worked in this last game except we didn't happen to win the game. Most of the questions raised in our postings the last couple of days would be answered if we just won a couple of games. If that's the case I hope the nature and makeup of our posts changes over the next weeks.

 

[Asaf]

The problem is that there is no pecking order because frankly, were not that good right now. Talent wise (not potential talent), everyone is about the same, save for Reke. Cousins can't guard, Dalembert can't score. Beno can't guard, Head can't shoot consistently. Landry can't rebound, Thompson can't get out of his own way. Casspi gets tunnel vision, Donte isn't consistent.

You have a lot of talent, but it's dispersed quite evenly in the guys we have. That is part of the reason PW is juggling lineups. Who is the starter, Casspi or Greene? Who is producing better, Head or Garcia? What do you want from your C, consistency and defense, or offense? There is no clear cut winner.

Everyone here in KFland wants to play the kids, play the ones who are the future, but you have to understand that there is value in winning and playing the guys who are producing. The problem is, is that we have everyone all mixed up, and they come out more often than not, about even. So who do you play?

That's exactly the reason why PW should just stick to one lineup. Like you said, the players are quite evenly talented, and it's not like someone will develop into an allstar in the span of three games. They are going to have good games and bad games, and switching the lineup every other game is not going to get any one of these players to up their level to a consistent starter level. The only way you can start to have some consistency in the level of playing is if you have consistency in your rotations. The coach has to come to terms with the fact that his players are young and will be inconsistent and experience slumps. Jerking them around back and forth between starter and end-of-bencher, and between multiple positions, is the absolute worst way to try to get consistency from your players.

 

[IfAt1st]

Last game Head and JT started. I read a post in the last day saying that that starting lineup locked the opponent down and we had a very good first quarter. Then the bench came in and lost a 40 point second quarter. Of course that wasn't how it happened. I would have liked the coach to put the original starters back in to stop the bleeding. If I remember correctly that didn't happen.

I really think starting Head is simply a strategy to halt bad defensive beginnings. Their intention was and is to play Beno lots but not start him. It worked in this last game except we didn't happen to win the game.

That's because that's not what happened.

The Knicks shot TERRIBLY in the 1st quarter (22%) and it wasn't because we were draped all over them.
Hell, IIRC the Knicks shot better (77%) in the 2nd quarter and they had more shots with hands in their face then.

I am kinda tired of the zeitgeist in the NBA of "The Kings LET them shoot lights out in the 2nd qtr."
There is simply no way to stop professional basketball players when they are on fire. You can't simultaneously prevent the 3 ptr AND the drive.
All you can do is get close to them, make them shoot contested shots. The Kings did that in the 2nd qtr (and it wasn't all the 2nd squad, either).
I can't remember almost ANY dunks in the 2nd qtr against the Knicks (they were certainly less than average).

 

[Kingsguy881]

The Kings have been getting killed from the sf position. For whatever reason Westphal was playing a mindgame with Donte, our best defender at that position. Even Ron Artest who avg's 10 per dropped 17 on us on 7-11 shooting, only tied for his best shooting game of the year and the second most points for him on the season. Now that (hopefully) Westphal's mindgames with Donte are done we should be much better off going forward.

 

[rhythmless]

That's exactly the reason why PW should just stick to one lineup. Like you said, the players are quite evenly talented, and it's not like someone will develop into an allstar in the span of three games. They are going to have good games and bad games, and switching the lineup every other game is not going to get any one of these players to up their level to a consistent starter level. The only way you can start to have some consistency in the level of playing is if you have consistency in your rotations. The coach has to come to terms with the fact that his players are young and will be inconsistent and experience slumps. Jerking them around back and forth between starter and end-of-bencher, and between multiple positions, is the absolute worst way to try to get consistency from your players.

A coach is also heavily vested in the politics and business of the game. He not only has to juggle what he feels is best for the team, but for his own future as well. In this regard, he is akin to a politician. It is hard for a politician to do anything good for the future of the government, because any true savings in the future will come at the expense of today. This fundamental issue has politicians in "win now" mode, which is why Sacramento, CA, US is in such dire straits. With a coach, we are not privy to the demands being placed upon him from the front office and personnel, if any. We are armchair coaching and armchair operationing and armchair owning all at once.

I agree w/u; stick w/a lineup. But when you are heading down the path of what could be a tailspin, you have to make some immediate corrections to right yourself. If you read what D'Antoni said, he placed great importance in their win b/c it stopped their slide. That reprieve is worth more than just that win. Emotions, confidence and momentum are intangible things that are very real in sports. It's easy to say that he should play Reke/Garcia/Donte/JT/Cousins, but what if he loses the players before the players see any tangible benefit?

Most people here have stated that who plays defense and with intensity should get minutes. PW has rewarded Donte w/more minutes based on his defense. Dalembert got his starting spot w/defense. Head got inserted b/c of defense. Cousins/beno benched b/c their lack of defense. So what's the problem here? Isn't this what we were clamoring for?

 

[Lafayette]

Hey, he's getting closer to getting it right.

 

[Spok22]

like i said, i didnt get to see wednesday's game so that might play a part in why im having a little trouble understanding the lineup.

 

[Spok22]

That's exactly the reason why PW should just stick to one lineup. Like you said, the players are quite evenly talented, and it's not like someone will develop into an allstar in the span of three games. They are going to have good games and bad games, and switching the lineup every other game is not going to get any one of these players to up their level to a consistent starter level. The only way you can start to have some consistency in the level of playing is if you have consistency in your rotations. The coach has to come to terms with the fact that his players are young and will be inconsistent and experience slumps. Jerking them around back and forth between starter and end-of-bencher, and between multiple positions, is the absolute worst way to try to get consistency from your players.

Exactly. Thank you.

 

[Nighthawk1]

I don't mind this lineup as I think it should allow Tyreke to run the offense through him (which head is incapable of at this point). Looks much improved defensively and our bench looks quite a bit better. The only question - does PW finally start playing JT at the 4 again in his rotation.. I hope so!

 

[mac]

Chemistry is one thing, but from what I gather this most recent line up change is about effort and focus on the defensive end. If our guys just aren't clicking on offence, then we should probably be more patient and give them time to grow together like you said. However, if the guys on the floor just aren't putting in the effort to defend well, you have a legit case to make a line up change IMO. I say we watch how things go with this line up, and also with how the bench produces, before we call for Westphal's head.