Huerter - Buddy 2.0?

[ESP47]

I don’t trust the defensive rating. What metrics for defense are to be trusted?

What Jamal said. Eye test + a few of the metrics he listed and you can usually get a good idea of a player's defense. It's easily the most difficult thing to analyze on the court and capture statistically.

There's always going to be outliers. A lot of the metrics really like TD for some reason. He gets a fair share of steals and is a good rebounder but he misses his assignments a lot. I'd grade him as an average to slightly below average defender from my eye test because he does some good work on that end of the court, it's just he mixes it in with a lot of brain farts.

A lot of times the stats will weight heavily in favor of a player who gets a lot of steals or blocks but steals can be a bit misleading because yeah they're a positive because you caused a turnover but how many gambles did you take or how often did you leave your man to play a passing lane and guessed wrong to get those steals? Many times the steal leaders in the league are among the worst defenders. Like Rondo when he played in Sac.

 

[Fantazija]

Wow just wow,

Common, It was vs the Rockets. The Guy has been absolute trash defensively as of late. I wouldn't call last nights game against the worst team in the NBA some type of redemption.

Man had 1 Steal and 1 Block and now hes the next Scottie Pippen. lol

Listen any kings fan still here after all these years deserves a metal, but you guys lol I've never seen so many Homers in my life.

Fact Check: Buddy Heilds Def Rating 116.9
Kevin Huerter D Rating 115.9

Like I said, Buddy 2.0 - He Can Do Better

Why is everyone so sensitive about what seems like a deserved criticism. Huerter is below average defender and before the Rockets game was getting absolutely abused by anyone(and I really mean anyone) he was "trying" to defend for a week or so.

 

[Fantazija]

I mean, I admit his closeouts have not been clean as of recently. I'm sure Brown will point it out, but Huerter isn't the only culprit.







And Huerter still is not on Buddy's level of boneheaded-ness.

Chill on that hot take lol, it's not at all apples to apples with those 2.

I agree that Kevin does give a crap and tries.U can see in his demeanor after getting scored that he is pissed unlike Buddy who would be totally indifferent

 

[SacTownKid]

As a role guy and fit next to Fox, Huerter is > Buddy. Buddy is overall a much more explosive player than Huerter. Period.

 

[Rob-The-Great]

As a role guy and fit next to Fox, Huerter is > Buddy. Buddy is overall a much more explosive player than Huerter. Period.

To Be Fair, Can you imagine Buddy getting those Sabonis Screens? Most of Huerters 3s are wide open. Buddy's 3s last year where hero 3s witch is why he wore out his welcome. But with This Scheme, you cant tell me that Buddy wound have been more or at least just as effective.

If we are going to put a price on it then we cannot forget that we had buddy for free and we gave up a 1st for Huerter. Im sure Indiana wasn't begging for buddy, we just through him in to make it work.

And Finally, I am completly Enjoying the ride, but this is a Forum. There is always room for improvement until we win a championship. Thats why we are suppose to be active during the trade deadline for defense. We dont have a perfect team. The Sensitivity is out of control around here.

 

[Rob-The-Great]

What Jamal said. Eye test + a few of the metrics he listed and you can usually get a good idea of a player's defense. It's easily the most difficult thing to analyze on the court and capture statistically.

There's always going to be outliers. A lot of the metrics really like TD for some reason. He gets a fair share of steals and is a good rebounder but he misses his assignments a lot. I'd grade him as an average to slightly below average defender from my eye test because he does some good work on that end of the court, it's just he mixes it in with a lot of brain farts.

A lot of times the stats will weight heavily in favor of a player who gets a lot of steals or blocks but steals can be a bit misleading because yeah they're a positive because you caused a turnover but how many gambles did you take or how often did you leave your man to play a passing lane and guessed wrong to get those steals? Many times the steal leaders in the league are among the worst defenders. Like Rondo when he played in Sac.

The Eye Test Is What Made Me Make The Comment. Hes Been Getting Cooked Out There. I apricate that Brown gave him the D Chain. Just Means To Me, He Knows How To Coach. Gave The Guy He Was Basically Talking Too About Being All In Last Game, The Chain For Motivation. Thats What Good Coaches Do. But He Wasn't Shutting Anyone Down Out There. He Had 1 Block And 1 Rebound For Goodness Sake. The Chain Argument Could Have Been Made For Metu.

 

[ESP47]

The Eye Test Is What Made Me Make The Comment. Hes Been Getting Cooked Out There. I apricate that Brown gave him the D Chain. Just Means To Me, He Knows How To Coach. Gave The Guy He Was Basically Talking Too About Being All In Last Game, The Chain For Motivation. Thats What Good Coaches Do. But He Wasn't Shutting Anyone Down Out There. He Had 1 Block And 1 Rebound For Goodness Sake. The Chain Argument Could Have Been Made For Metu.

I agree with some of your points. He's definitely not a good defender and he got the chain because they allowed Fox to decided who got it last game. I was hoping he would be a better defender coming over from Atlanta but he's just not that great. Basically everyone other than a couple players on this roster get taken off the dribble by any competent driver. Keegan is just as guilty of it as Huerter is.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

If we are going to put a price on it then we cannot forget that we had buddy for free and we gave up a 1st for Huerter. Im sure Indiana wasn't begging for buddy, we just through him in to make it work.

@Capt. Factorial posted a pretty damning stat about Buddy's salary share vs. his win shares. Maybe he can repost that number along with what Kevin's numbers are. Because Kevin is on a much more reasonable contract. The reason Buddy had to go was because we were overpaying a guy who had quit on the team.

 

[Rob-The-Great]

@Capt. Factorial posted a pretty damning stat about Buddy's salary share vs. his win shares. Maybe he can repost that number along with what Kevin's numbers are. Because Kevin is on a much more reasonable contract. The reason Buddy had to go was because we were overpaying a guy who had quit on the team.

I said in my post I hate Buddy, hes not my guy. Im simply saying that Huerter's game is more close to Buddys than people care to admit. If Buddy had the same role as Kev On Our Team He Would Be A Freakin Flame Thrower. You Cannot Disregard Sobonis's Screens, They are amazing.

Kev's Defense Is Suspect and causing the team def to breakdown, Hes been getting less and less min, so Brown def has taken notice.
He Must Do Better On Defense for us to have a chance, otherwise hes part of the problem not the solution. and as of right now, our weakest link on the starting lineup. Its a good problem to have but still a problem long term

Biggest Difference Is Buddy Smiled After He Got Torched and Kev Gets Mad After Hes Torched. But They Both + Torched!

 

[Padrino]

Buncha hemming and hawing for little reason in this thread. Huerter has been awesome for the Kings offensively, and he's had moments where he's been effective defensively. But I don't think anybody has ever made the claim that he's close to a star-level talent, so a Buddy Hield-like that's considerably cheaper, less mistake-prone, less disgruntled, and a better playmaker represents incredible value, especially considering McNair had to ship out two elite shooters in Hield and Haliburton in order to acquire Sabonis in the first place. Buying low in a trade for Huerter was a very smart and very shrewd move by McNair. Hield-without-the-headache is precisely the kind of player you want dancing around the three-point line for DHO's with Domas.

 

[NiNetNiNe]

I don't know why some are hating on Huerter for his defense. He is never going to be a top defender, but he has been solid in most of his games that I've watched, which is about 75% of our games. Our biggest issue on defense is we need a true PF that is a good defender and can shoot threes, but if that was easy to get then we would of had one by now. We just get scored on too easily in the paint, which is weird when you consider that our defensive rating for our starting five is like top five in the league.

 

[SacTownKid]

I don't know why some are hating on Huerter for his defense. He is never going to be a top defender, but he has been solid in most of his games that I've watched, which is about 75% of our games. Our biggest issue on defense is we need a true PF that is a good defender and can shoot threes, but if that was easy to get then we would of had one by now. We just get scored on too easily in the paint, which is weird when you consider that our defensive rating for our starting five is like top five in the league.

Huerter does get beat but he's always trying on defense which yes, is more than you can say for others on this team in years past, haha.

 

[Rob-The-Great]

Huerter does get beat but he's always trying on defense which yes, is more than you can say for others on this team in years past, haha.

He's Trying... Thats Cute. No Sir, he was below average to start the season, He recently became a liability. Why does criticism in here automatically mean that someone is calling for some ones head. I like Red, But facts are what they are. If we are going to make it to playoffs and go deep hes gotta do better than try to play defense. Hes got to be average. Nobody asked him to be elite, but he cant be getting his doors blown off by no names in the most scoring prolific position on the court. If all we care about is scoring we can start Monk and get better playmaking on top of it.

 

[Rob-The-Great]

Buncha hemming and hawing for little reason in this thread. Huerter has been awesome for the Kings offensively, and he's had moments where he's been effective defensively. But I don't think anybody has ever made the claim that he's close to a star-level talent, so a Buddy Hield-like that's considerably cheaper, less mistake-prone, less disgruntled, and a better playmaker represents incredible value, especially considering McNair had to ship out two elite shooters in Hield and Haliburton in order to acquire Sabonis in the first place. Buying low in a trade for Huerter was a very smart and very shrewd move by McNair. Hield-without-the-headache is precisely the kind of player you want dancing around the three-point line for DHO's with Domas.

The Question was, Can you win with him in playoffs playing like that, or is he the talent of Buddy without all the drama you just stated. What you said was true, that's pretty much what i was referring to when I said Buddy 2.0. Except you got likes because they like you a little better around these parts lol. But you proved my point. Hes Buddy without the Baggage, witch of course is extremally valuable, even Buddy was Valuable thats why someone traded for him. But do you think he is the long term solution?

 

[SacTownKid]

He's Trying... Thats Cute. No Sir, he was below average to start the season, He recently became a liability. Why does criticism in here automatically mean that someone is calling for some ones head. I like Red, But facts are what they are. If we are going to make it to playoffs and go deep hes gotta do better than try to play defense. Hes got to be average. Nobody asked him to be elite, but he cant be getting his doors blown off by no names in the most scoring prolific position on the court. If all we care about is scoring we can start Monk and get better playmaking on top of it.

For where this team was, playing hard on that end is a major step up. Not the final step for sure but a definite step up. Also, I think when you watch the matchups you can see the team has some advantages size wise with him. Defensively this team is kind of what it is. They aren't stocked with defensive personnel, it just is what it is.

 

[Rob-The-Great]

For where this team was, playing hard on that end is a major step up. Not the final step for sure but a definite step up. Also, I think when you watch the matchups you can see the team has some advantages size wise with him. Defensively this team is kind of what it is. They aren't stocked with defensive personnel, it just is what it is.

Thank you for your grownup feedback and treating this conversation for what it is, a conversation. Nothing to get sensitive about.

Personally I think we should strike while the iron is hot. trade either Huerter or Barnes while they are at there peak for a real peace. And get rid of Mitchell too before his stock gets worse. Im more inclined to get rid of Barnes because i know he will disappoint me sooner or later. But we have to much of the same guy on this team. We need another shot creator in the lineup. When Barnes attacks, we are a different team. People think its Fox but in realty its when Barnes or that 3rd person attacks the hole is when we really take off. We dont have that consistent person right now. If we trade one of those two with Mitchell to bring us over the top, We can really make a move

 

[PorchSurfin]

I agree that Kevin does give a crap and tries.U can see in his demeanor after getting scored that he is pissed unlike Buddy who would be totally indifferent

When Buddy was here he was looking for his next shot. So yeah, totally agree.

 

[dude12]

Thank you for your grownup feedback and treating this conversation for what it is, a conversation. Nothing to get sensitive about.

Personally I think we should strike while the iron is hot. trade either Huerter or Barnes while they are at there peak for a real peace. And get rid of Mitchell too before his stock gets worse. Im more inclined to get rid of Barnes because i know he will disappoint me sooner or later. But we have to much of the same guy on this team. We need another shot creator in the lineup. When Barnes attacks, we are a different team. People think its Fox but in realty its when Barnes or that 3rd person attacks the hole is when we really take off. We dont have that consistent person right now. If we trade one of those two with Mitchell to bring us over the top, We can really make a move

You want to trade these guys while the team is in the middle of their best year in 16 years. I’m not being sensitive but this is just dumb.

 

[Rob-The-Great]

You want to trade these guys while the team is in the middle of their best year in 16 years. I’m not being sensitive but this is just dumb.

You and these childish insults lol "Hall Of Fame" My ass. You suggest we trade when we suck? when everyone's trade value is down? We couldn't trade Barnes for a bag of rocks last year. Hes on a expiring contract, not guaranteed to resign and hes untouchable now? When he has the best trade value he's ever had and im the dumb one? When we traded Peja did we suck? When We Traded White Chocolate, when we was having our best season in years, kind of like now for bibby, what then? Good GMs dont get caught up in the hype of one good season in 20 years, they see the bigger picture.

Next time please give reason instead of just a insult. Im not the GM but the case for what i said isn't close to Dumb, its actually very reasonable now that we've established that Huerter is Buddy 2.0 without the drama.

 

[PorchSurfin]

You and these childish insults lol "Hall Of Fame" My ass. You suggest we trade when we suck? when everyone's trade value is down? We couldn't trade Barnes for a bag of rocks last year. Hes on a expiring contract, not guaranteed to resign and hes untouchable now? When he has the best trade value he's ever had and im the dumb one? When we traded Peja did we suck? When We Traded White Chocolate, when we was having our best season in years, kind of like now for bibby, what then? Good GMs dont get caught up in the hype of one good season in 20 years, they see the bigger picture.







Next time please give reason instead of just a insult. Im not the GM but the case for what i said isn't close to Dumb, its actually very reasonable now that we've established that Huerter is Buddy 2.0 without the drama.

First of all, it's BAD team morale to trade a player just after signing them. It show absolutely zero loyalty as well as a disregard for culture and continuity.



Second of all, and more importantly, you don't trade players that fit for what if's without doing more research. Right now you are posting very emotionally without any thought.



It would be in your best interest to sober up off this extreme bender you are on and look at the big picture.

 

[Kingster]

There is nobody in the league that can be compared with Buddy Hield. Huerter is 100x smarter than Hield for starters. If Hield couldn't shoot the 3 ball he'd have a tough time getting a job at Dollar General. (Ok, maybe they would hire him because of the labor shortage; my bad).

I expect after the All Star break Huerter will get his shooting mojo back and there will be a "Huerter: Any Questions?" thread started shortly thereafter.

 

[Spike]

You and these childish insults lol "Hall Of Fame" My ass. You suggest we trade when we suck? when everyone's trade value is down? We couldn't trade Barnes for a bag of rocks last year. Hes on a expiring contract, not guaranteed to resign and hes untouchable now? When he has the best trade value he's ever had and im the dumb one? When we traded Peja did we suck? When We Traded White Chocolate, when we was having our best season in years, kind of like now for bibby, what then? Good GMs dont get caught up in the hype of one good season in 20 years, they see the bigger picture.

Next time please give reason instead of just a insult. Im not the GM but the case for what i said isn't close to Dumb, its actually very reasonable now that we've established that Huerter is Buddy 2.0 without the drama.

Nobody but you believes that he's Buddy 2.0. I trust Huerter with the game in doubt and the ball in his hand. The same can't be said for Buddy. Ever.

And yeah, we traded Peja when we were good, but we had also BEEN good for a while. This is our first year of being good, with a roster that has a lot of chemistry, and also, needs the exact players to do their jobs the way they were brought in for.
Barnes has saved our bacon several times this year. I would definitely roll with the risk of him not coming back rather than upset the delicate chemistry that has arguably pushed us higher than raw talent has. That move was made to extend a window, we're in the process of creating one. You do that with chemistry and culture.

Moves for players like Thybulle and Plumlee maybe don't move the needle in a NBA2K world, but they're what the team needs now to strengthen their current weakness and keep them firmly in the upper tier, which is freaking crazy when we were thinking about them playing their way into the playoffs at like a 9/10 seed.

 

[Rob-The-Great]

Apricate the positive feedback gentlemen.

Agree to disagree I Guess. Maybe Im Paranoid in the fact that 3rd seed and 11th seed are a mere few games from each other. That we've been living and dying by the 3 and no D Theory as of late.

Plumlee isn't better than Holmes IMO, so no i dont see them moving anything but the bench seating. We've had Barnes for how many years now? and now hes the key to our Chemistry huh? I can find the same people in here calling for his head at beginning of the season. Chemistry isn't what we've been lacking all these years, Talent Was.

 

[Rob-The-Great]

This thread is not aging well already

Looks like its aging like a fine wine to me

 

[Singhisking]

Buddy 2.0? He reminds me of Spencer Hawes for some reason(s).

 

[Rob-The-Great]

Buddy 2.0? He reminds me of Spencer Hawes for some reason(s).

You see how quiet those haters are now? meanwhile Buddy went off for 29 and 7, He May Be Buddy 0.5.
At Least Brown Is Putting Him On Notice. I Hope He Responds Accordingly. We Need Him To Be Better

 

[The_Jamal]

You and these childish insults lol "Hall Of Fame" My ass. You suggest we trade when we suck? when everyone's trade value is down? We couldn't trade Barnes for a bag of rocks last year. Hes on a expiring contract, not guaranteed to resign and hes untouchable now? When he has the best trade value he's ever had and im the dumb one? When we traded Peja did we suck? When We Traded White Chocolate, when we was having our best season in years, kind of like now for bibby, what then? Good GMs dont get caught up in the hype of one good season in 20 years, they see the bigger picture.

Next time please give reason instead of just a insult. Im not the GM but the case for what i said isn't close to Dumb, its actually very reasonable now that we've established that Huerter is Buddy 2.0 without the drama.

Team is 3rd in the West, we just matched our win total from last season with 29 games left on the docket. And you want to ship off half the core and reason why we're in our current position?

Yes. That's a dumb idea and it doesn't dignify a proper response because of how truly dumb an idea it is.

 

[Rob-The-Great]

Team is 3rd in the West, we just matched our win total from last season with 29 games left on the docket. And you want to ship off half the core and reason why we're in our current position?

Yes. That's a dumb idea and it doesn't dignify a proper response because of how truly dumb an idea it is.

Whats dumb is your inability to read. When did I say ship off half the core? Funny How the Admins Talk about keeping things respectful and this isn't reddit, then the so called hall of famers dont know how to have a respectful conversation without throwing out name-calling

We just got bailed out by the refs from a disrespectful loss to the Rockets! The guy I was speaking about was benched for almost half of the game so what I was saying was spot on.

Since you can't read, maybe you can at least count, tell me Jamal, whats the win diff between 3rd place and 10th in the west?

Utah is 3 games back from us and just traded there all star PG. Not a role player SG or SF. The Man Im Speaking about again just got benched and its somehow some crazy out of this world Idea lol.

Nets just traded there All World PG and there record is better than ours

 

[The_Jamal]

Whats dumb is your inability to read. When did I say ship off half the core? Funny How the Admins Talk about keeping things respectful and this isn't reddit, then the so called hall of famers dont know how to have a respectful conversation without throwing out name-calling

We just got bailed out by the refs from a disrespectful loss to the Rockets! The guy I was speaking about was benched for almost half of the game so what I was saying was spot on.

Since you can't read, maybe you can at least count, tell me Jamal, whats the win diff between 3rd place and 10th in the west?

I called your idea dumb, not you. I appreciate you thinking I insulted you, when you attack me saying I can't read lol. Just absolutely rich and perfect for this conversation for the guy who complains about people being "TOO SOFT".

Thank you for your grownup feedback and treating this conversation for what it is, a conversation. Nothing to get sensitive about.

Personally I think we should strike while the iron is hot. trade either Huerter or Barnes while they are at there peak for a real peace. And get rid of Mitchell too before his stock gets worse. Im more inclined to get rid of Barnes because i know he will disappoint me sooner or later. But we have to much of the same guy on this team. We need another shot creator in the lineup. When Barnes attacks, we are a different team. People think its Fox but in realty its when Barnes or that 3rd person attacks the hole is when we really take off. We dont have that consistent person right now. If we trade one of those two with Mitchell to bring us over the top, We can really make a move

Suggesting trading Barnes or Huerter and getting rid of Mitchell is suggesting to blow up the core that's gotten us to this point. Which, to me, is extremely dumb because the Kings should not be touching any of the top 6 (I do think Mitchell for the right deal is tradeable) this season. A team that's sucked for 16 years should not just go immediately blow up the team that's finally played well.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

I'm closing this thread because it's just another excuse for a fist fight.