How does Tyreke stack up against past ROY winners?

[LWP777]

How accurate is the ROY award in predicting future greatness? It didn't work out so great for Mike Miller and Emeka Okafor. Assuming he wins this year's ROY, how do you think he stacks up with other ROY winners? When you look at the past 10 years, there are a few guys that went on to have decent careers, but ended up mostly being journeymen (see Mike Miller, Elton Brand, and Steve Francis). The only mega superstar is Lebron James and then there are other stars like Chris Paul, Kevin Durant, and Pau Gasol.

I'm thinking he'll end up no worse than Brandon Roy but no better than Kevin Durant. Thoughts?

Past ROY winners:

2008-09 Derrick Rose
2007-08 Kevin Durant
2006-07 Brandon Roy
2005-06 Chris Paul
2004-05 Emeka Okafor
2003-04 LeBron James
2002-03 Amare Stoudemire
2001-02 Pau Gasol
2000-01 Mike Miller
1999-00 Elton Brand and Steve Francis

 

[Jespher]

ROY means lasting staying power, barring freakish Grant Hill level injury (and even then look at Grant Hill ). He'll be a starting level player in the league for 10-15+ years if he wants to be, he has that much talent. It says more about a players floor than their ceiling...

 

[Chupacabra]

I think he'll be a notch below Lebron James. I think he'll be on the same level of Kevin Durant. Its hard for me to use this as a measuring stick when im aware of how rare the 20/5/5 rookie statline is. Evans will perhaps be better than all of these past ROY winners with the exception of Lebron.

 

[captain bill]

I'm thinking he'll end up no worse than Brandon Roy but no better than Kevin Durant. Thoughts?

Past ROY winners:

2008-09 Derrick Rose
2007-08 Kevin Durant
2006-07 Brandon Roy
2005-06 Chris Paul
2004-05 Emeka Okafor
2003-04 LeBron James
2002-03 Amare Stoudemire
2001-02 Pau Gasol
2000-01 Mike Miller
1999-00 Elton Brand and Steve Francis

Brandon Roy is on the same level if not better than Durant. The ONLY thing Durant can do is score, and while he does it at a high volume - high efficieny level, that doesn't make up for the fact that he is an average rebounder and an awful defender and passer. He doesn't play within the offense. OKC on offense has two sets: 4 man, good ball movement offense, plus the 1-man KD option. Durant, for all the hype he gets, is NOT an MVP-level player. He is an elite all-NBA level SCORER but doesn't get his teammates involved, had poor court vision, can't defend and is an average rebounder (who underperforms for his size and length).

THAT ASIDE, Tyreke is in the mold of Roy, a do-it-all guard who is good at everything he needs to be, lacks eye-popping athleticism (tho Reke is probably stronger) and is highly skilled. Tyreke will be a better scorer and defender than Roy long term.


Tyreke, best case, could be a notch below Lebron and on the same level as those other guys. Worst case he will be lumped with Rose and Roy and forgotten about, but if he improves he will be distinctly better than all those players save LeBron and Pau.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Brandon Roy is on the same level if not better than Durant. The ONLY thing Durant can do is score, and while he does it at a high volume - high efficieny level, that doesn't make up for the fact that he is an average rebounder and an awful defender and passer. He doesn't play within the offense. OKC on offense has two sets: 4 man, good ball movement offense, plus the 1-man KD option. Durant, for all the hype he gets, is NOT an MVP-level player. He is an elite all-NBA level SCORER but doesn't get his teammates involved, had poor court vision, can't defend and is an average rebounder (who underperforms for his size and length).

THAT ASIDE, Tyreke is in the mold of Roy, a do-it-all guard who is good at everything he needs to be, lacks eye-popping athleticism (tho Reke is probably stronger) and is highly skilled. Tyreke will be a better scorer and defender than Roy long term.


Tyreke, best case, could be a notch below Lebron and on the same level as those other guys. Worst case he will be lumped with Rose and Roy and forgotten about, but if he improves he will be distinctly better than all those players save LeBron and Pau.

Are you kidding me??? I think you are vastly undervaluing KD. You know he plays the SMALL FORWARD position right? He is the second leading rebounder in the league for ALL small forwards, surpassed only by Gerald Wallace, who is just having a freakish rebounding year. Durant is a SUPERSTAR, right now, at 21, with only 2 years under his belt. He has some nice pieces around him in Westbrook and Green in OKC, but you take Durant out of the equation and and OKC is not a playoff team, IMO. What he's done this year has been nothing short of spectacular and mark my words, while he will not win the MVP (Lebron will) he will be in the top 5 of the voting, and deservedly so.

I do agree with you that defensively, he is not there yet. Few are at 21. I do think you will see huge strides in that area in his game over the next couple years.

You give me a choice between Durant and Roy and I'll take Durant all day, every day.

As an aside, the Thunder are a quality center away from being a championship contender year in and year out. While Krstic often looks like an all star against us, (not uncommon for most NBA big men) he should be a back up. They are yet another example of reloading/rebuilding through the draft.

 

[LWP777]

Are you kidding me??? I think you are vastly undervaluing KD. You know he plays the SMALL FORWARD position right? He is the second leading rebounder in the league for ALL small forwards, surpassed only by Gerald Wallace, who is just having a freakish rebounding year. Durant is a SUPERSTAR, right now, at 21, with only 2 years under his belt. He has some nice pieces around him in Westbrook and Green in OKC, but you take Durant out of the equation and and OKC is not a playoff team, IMO. What he's done this year has been nothing short of spectacular and mark my words, while he will not win the MVP (Lebron will) he will be in the top 5 of the voting, and deservedly so.

I do agree with you that defensively, he is not there yet. Few are at 21. I do think you will see huge strides in that area in his game over the next couple years.

You give me a choice between Durant and Roy and I'll take Durant all day, every day.

As an aside, the Thunder are a quality center away from being a championship contender year in and year out. While Krstic often looks like an all star against us, (not uncommon for most NBA big men) he should be a back up. They are yet another example of reloading/rebuilding through the draft.

I completely agree with this post.

 

[Bricklayer]

How accurate is the ROY award in predicting future greatness? It didn't work out so great for Mike Miller and Emeka Okafor. Assuming he wins this year's ROY, how do you think he stacks up with other ROY winners? When you look at the past 10 years, there are a few guys that went on to have decent careers, but ended up mostly being journeymen (see Mike Miller, Elton Brand, and Steve Francis). The only mega superstar is Lebron James and then there are other stars like Chris Paul, Kevin Durant, and Pau Gasol.

I'm thinking he'll end up no worse than Brandon Roy but no better than Kevin Durant. Thoughts?

Past ROY winners:

2008-09 Derrick Rose
2007-08 Kevin Durant
2006-07 Brandon Roy
2005-06 Chris Paul
2004-05 Emeka Okafor
2003-04 LeBron James
2002-03 Amare Stoudemire
2001-02 Pau Gasol
2000-01 Mike Miller
1999-00 Elton Brand and Steve Francis

Easier to answer the question by reorganizing the list -- there are some semi-distinct classes of player there -- one talented journeyman, one solid guy, a pack of borderline All Stars, and then the MVP candidates. Reke is likely going to be amongst the latter.

2003-04 LeBron James
<----------------------------------------Reke?
2005-06 Chris Paul
2007-08 Kevin Durant
<----------------------------------------Reke?
2002-03 Amare Stoudemire
----------------------------
2006-07 Brandon Roy
2008-09 Derrick Rose
2001-02 Pau Gasol
1999-00 Elton Brand and Steve Francis
----------------------------
2004-05 Emeka Okafor
----------------------------
2000-01 Mike Miller


He's going to be in the top pack

 

[Kingsguy881]

Here we go again comparing Tyreke to Kevin Durant.....

 

[Sluggah]

i feel like if i babble about how good i think he'll be, i might jinx it. so...

what brick said.

 

[est.1999]

Saying Roy is better than Durant is like saying Clyde the Glide was better than Jordan. Not comparing the players, just the comparison level

 

[LWP777]

I'm shocked that we have a lot of votes saying Reke could be as good as Lebron. Don't get me wrong, I love Tyreke but Lebron may go down as the best player in NBA history.

 

[uolj]

I'm shocked that we have a lot of votes saying Reke could be as good as Lebron. Don't get me wrong, I love Tyreke but Lebron may go down as the best player in NBA history.

My guess is that many of those votes are really just "better than Durant".

 

[Heuge]

Easier to answer the question by reorganizing the list -- there are some semi-distinct classes of player there -- one talented journeyman, one solid guy, a pack of borderline All Stars, and then the MVP candidates. Reke is likely going to be amongst the latter.

2003-04 LeBron James
<----------------------------------------Reke?
2005-06 Chris Paul
2007-08 Kevin Durant
<----------------------------------------Reke?
2002-03 Amare Stoudemire
----------------------------
2006-07 Brandon Roy
2008-09 Derrick Rose
2001-02 Pau Gasol
1999-00 Elton Brand and Steve Francis
----------------------------
2004-05 Emeka Okafor
----------------------------
2000-01 Mike Miller


He's going to be in the top pack

This post makes me happy!

To add, I think Roy is ahead of Stoudemire and joins him in that 3rd tier you present. Roy has been much more then borderline all-star.

 

[Andre87]

I can clearly see him at the Brandon Roy level once he gets that jumper going. Maybe even a little bit better closer to D-Wade level. But definitely not on Lebron's one as he lacks hops.

 

[Tetsujin]

I can clearly see him at the Brandon Roy level once he gets that jumper going. Maybe even a little bit better closer to D-Wade level. But definitely not on Lebron's one as he lacks hops.

He's already playing at a similar level to Roy (Statwise, he is outperforming Roy in several categories). When Reke get that stroke going, he'll be past his level.

 

[captain bill]

Are you kidding me??? I think you are vastly undervaluing KD. You know he plays the SMALL FORWARD position right? He is the second leading rebounder in the league for ALL small forwards, surpassed only by Gerald Wallace, who is just having a freakish rebounding year. Durant is a SUPERSTAR, right now, at 21, with only 2 years under his belt. He has some nice pieces around him in Westbrook and Green in OKC, but you take Durant out of the equation and and OKC is not a playoff team, IMO. What he's done this year has been nothing short of spectacular and mark my words, while he will not win the MVP (Lebron will) he will be in the top 5 of the voting, and deservedly so.

I do agree with you that defensively, he is not there yet. Few are at 21. I do think you will see huge strides in that area in his game over the next couple years.

You give me a choice between Durant and Roy and I'll take Durant all day, every day.

As an aside, the Thunder are a quality center away from being a championship contender year in and year out. While Krstic often looks like an all star against us, (not uncommon for most NBA big men) he should be a back up. They are yet another example of reloading/rebuilding through the draft.

1- I'll give you that he's a good rebound for a SF. A good rebounding SF does not have the overall impact on the game of a good rebounding C.

2- You ignore the fact that he cannot pass the ball. He is an atrocious passer. Watching him try to pull off clever passes if painful. I've been watcing OKC games lately to try to get a feel for him- against SA his highlights included at one point having a streaking open man running to the basket for an easy lay-up and KD throwing the ball easily 2 feet ahead of him and into the stands, and at another he went to the basket with a trailing player who he tried to pass it back to only to throw it off the leg of a Spurs defender. The ONLY pass he can execute with any consistency is the reset pass up to Harden or Westbrook at the top of the arc.

3- His defense is atrocious. He might be a good defender in 2 or 3 years, but he might also continue to suck.

4- OKC has a very good supporting cast. Russel and Westbrook are good backcourt players. I really like Ibaka, who brings a lot of energy and plays well in every aspect of the game. Now, I don't think they'd be in the playoffs without him, but last time I check 'leading your pretty good but not great supporting cast to the playoffs' wasn't a dealbreaker for the MVP.



Honestly, though, I'm not going to debate this more because I think Durant is a great player and a historically great scorer, but the thing is he reminds me more of a Peja or a Martin than a Lebron or a Kobe. Granter, Durant is miles ahead of Peja and Martin (despite, IMO, Peja being the better defender) because the way he scores is something unprecedented BUT he lacks the all-around games of guys like Kobe and LeBron that makes them transcendent talents. Durant is just too obviously and severely lacking in departments other than scoring for me to think of him as a legit MVP.

 

[Bricklayer]

1- I'll give you that he's a good rebound for a SF. A good rebounding SF does not have the overall impact on the game of a good rebounding C.

2- You ignore the fact that he cannot pass the ball. He is an atrocious passer. Watching him try to pull off clever passes if painful. I've been watcing OKC games lately to try to get a feel for him- against SA his highlights included at one point having a streaking open man running to the basket for an easy lay-up and KD throwing the ball easily 2 feet ahead of him and into the stands, and at another he went to the basket with a trailing player who he tried to pass it back to only to throw it off the leg of a Spurs defender. The ONLY pass he can execute with any consistency is the reset pass up to Harden or Westbrook at the top of the arc.

3- His defense is atrocious. He might be a good defender in 2 or 3 years, but he might also continue to suck.

4- OKC has a very good supporting cast. Russel and Westbrook are good backcourt players. I really like Ibaka, who brings a lot of energy and plays well in every aspect of the game. Now, I don't think they'd be in the playoffs without him, but last time I check 'leading your pretty good but not great supporting cast to the playoffs' wasn't a dealbreaker for the MVP.



Honestly, though, I'm not going to debate this more because I think Durant is a great player and a historically great scorer, but the thing is he reminds me more of a Peja or a Martin than a Lebron or a Kobe. Granter, Durant is miles ahead of Peja and Martin (despite, IMO, Peja being the better defender) because the way he scores is something unprecedented BUT he lacks the all-around games of guys like Kobe and LeBron that makes them transcendent talents. Durant is just too obviously and severely lacking in departments other than scoring for me to think of him as a legit MVP.

Not Peja or Martin or lesser lights.

But maybe Melo or Nique.

Aside from defense the big key statline that people overlook is often the assists. The legendary superstar carry your teams guys always rack up big stats in all three major categories, the "just a scorers" (Dirk too) lack the assists. They are finsihers, but not guys who make their teammates better. And that in the end is probbaly why they almost always finish 2nd to the guys who tack on 5+ assists along with the rest of the domiinance.

 

[captain bill]

Not Peja or Martin or lesser lights.

But maybe Melo or Nique.

Aside from defense the big key statline that people overlook is often the assists. The legendary superstar carry your teams guys always rack up big stats in all three major categories, the "just a scorers" (Dirk too) lack the assists. They are finsihers, but not guys who make their teammates better. And that in the end is probbaly why they almost always finish 2nd to the guys who tack on 5+ assists along with the rest of the domiinance.

Yeah definitely not Peja or Martin, Durant is clearly better, those are just the first two examples the come to mind (for me, for obvious reasons) of good scorers lacking in other departments.

 

[Superman]

I would agree that Durant is more Carmelo than LeBron, but let's not sell him short. I think 7.6 rpg is really, really good for a starting small forward (think back, when have we EVER had a starting small forward averaging 7+ rebounds?) and the whole "he's okay for a small forward" thing is bogus. He's a better rebounder than our starting power forward.

I don't care that he can't pass. He'll develop a bit there as time goes on, but it's definitely a deficiency. He's still an incredible player.

His defensive deficiencies are somewhat concerning, but no more so that other star scorers who weren't/aren't impressive on that end.

And again, he's 21 years old, for crying out loud. His game isn't even developed yet. When he hits his prime in four or five years, he has the potential to be a 35/8/4 guy, while shooting 50% from the field, 40% from outside, and 90% from the line, which isn't all that far off from his numbers this year. And he shot 42% from outside last year, when he shot almost 100 fewer threes than he'll wind up with this season. Oh, and he'll give you a block a game, despite not being a good defender. Kevin Durant is the next big thing in the NBA, and I can only hope that Tyreke is going to be as good as Durant is now, let alone better.

 

[Superman]

Yeah definitely not Peja or Martin, Durant is clearly better, those are just the first two examples the come to mind (for me, for obvious reasons) of good scorers lacking in other departments.

Peja was a good shooter. He never had the ability that Durant has to score at will, shed tough defenders, and carry his team every night. I think that's a horrible comparison. I can see the Kevin Martin comparison, but Durant is so much better than Martin offensively, that's it's really a stretch there also.

I think the more appropriate comparison would be Carmelo Anthony.

 

[Sparky6string]

Rather than prognosticating it'd be nice to compare rookie year stats of these guys to Tyreke's and just judge their rookie years.

 

[Section 101]

(think back, when have we EVER had a starting small forward averaging 7+ rebounds?)

L Train average 18 ppg 8.8 rpg 4.0 assist and 1.4 steals AS A ROOKIE!

 

[Bricklayer]

L Train average 18 ppg 8.8 rpg 4.0 assist and 1.4 steals AS A ROOKIE!

Second best SF rebounder in the league in his day, but that was back in the era when rookies were older and came inot the legaue full grouwn men. Think he entered the league same age or a year older than Durant is today.

 

[Emma]

Go for the gold!

Tyreke = or > Lebron James.


Lebron should be playing football.

 

[sc3252]

I voted Lebron James since there is no Lebron< Tyerke option. Lets be honest here Lebron James isn't really that good of a player, if he was well he would have an NBA title, which he is missing. Tim Duncan> Lebron James and thats final or is it the finals. I would put Tyreke in that little equation with Tim and Lebron, but it would put Tyreke at a level that is like comparing Jason williams(Lebron) to Chris Paul(Tyreke).

 

[Andre87]

He's already playing at a similar level to Roy (Statwise, he is outperforming Roy in several categories). When Reke get that stroke going, he'll be past his level.

lol no he's definitely not on similar to Roy's level yet. That's why some ppl call him underrated, see Brandon play in playoffs.

 

[LWP777]

I voted Lebron James since there is no Lebron< Tyerke option. Lets be honest here Lebron James isn't really that good of a player, if he was well he would have an NBA title, which he is missing. Tim Duncan> Lebron James and thats final or is it the finals. I would put Tyreke in that little equation with Tim and Lebron, but it would put Tyreke at a level that is like comparing Jason williams(Lebron) to Chris Paul(Tyreke).

LOL! Are you serious? Lebron will win championships. Great players don't usually win championships by themselves. Kobe didn't get his until he had Shaq on this team and then later in his career he needed Gasol. Duncan won his championships with some All-Stars surrounding him like Parker and Ginobli. Lebron up until this year has pretty much been surrounded by a bunch of role players. He's still somewhat in that same situation but some of those role players are much more talented (Jamison).

 

[Bricklayer]

I voted Lebron James since there is no Lebron< Tyerke option. Lets be honest here Lebron James isn't really that good of a player, if he was well he would have an NBA title, which he is missing. Tim Duncan> Lebron James and thats final or is it the finals. I would put Tyreke in that little equation with Tim and Lebron, but it would put Tyreke at a level that is like comparing Jason williams(Lebron) to Chris Paul(Tyreke).

I'm not sure what was really said here, but I am certian it must have been in jest.

 

[SacKings384]

I'm not sure Reke's ceiling is as high as Lebron's. I would say I would hope Reke to reach a Wade level (which is amazing). I'd say you could put a solid bet on him at least becoming a Brandon Roy type player, where he isn't quite a superstar but is better than an all star.

 

[Superman]

L Train average 18 ppg 8.8 rpg 4.0 assist and 1.4 steals AS A ROOKIE!

Okay, so 19 seasons ago. My point stands.