How does Tyreke fit with this team?

[Padrino]

My problem with Tyreke is mainly 2 basic issues:

1) If Tyreke is (or could be) so good, why has he been so spectacularly inconsistent during FOUR YEARS of starter-minute play?

If he was this guy who is just waiting for SOMETHING to switch on and have him dominate the league, why would he only flash these skills every now and then?
If he was so good, he'd be able to impose his will on the other team when they are prepared for him, and if there's one thing his career has shown is that he has NOT been able to do that.
He cannot break down defenders at will on the dribble - thousands of possessions where he has been denied and just wastes time has proven that.
He is not a clutch player - his incredibly-low conversion % in close ballgames has shown him to be (IMO) a non-clutch player.
For every game where he shows what he can do, he has 5 or 6 games where he is completely unimpressive and ineffective.

2) What is this magical new coach going to do, exactly, to make Tyreke dominant?

It's not like Tyreke hasn't had the ball a lot during his career. He gets it (and keeps it) on the break more than anyone on the team. He's had ample opportunities to break down his defender, and we've all seen the varying degrees of success he's had.
What exactly would a good coach do to make Tyreke be able to penetrate and convert better?
He's had PLENTY of 1-4 flat opportunities, and he's failed at most of them. Is a good coach's isolation play for Tyreke better than Westphal's, or Smart's?

Personally, I wish him the best, but IMO it's pretty obvious the problem is psychological with him. Hell, he's worse off psychologically than DMC! (from a dominance/excellence standpoint)
That's a radical statement, but all DMC needs is some maturing and a solid coach to guide him and he'll be just fine and be able to dominate the league.
Tyreke is nowhere close to developing the kind of mindset it takes to enforce his will on the league, and I simply do not see him developing one, based on his career history.
He's simply too passive, and it reflects on his court play.

per the bolded portion above, it's because, across those four years, his role has been treated with nothing but inconsistency. it really is that simple. and again, it's posts like these that ignore the material conditions under which tyreke evans--and many other kings--have labored across the last several seasons. you can't ignore those conditions, because they have tremendous impact on the development of young talents. stephen curry has been brought up quite a bit at kf.com of late, in comparison to tyreke evans. what changed for curry that hasn't changed for tyreke? well, let's see: warriors ownership changed hands. monta ellis was traded. keith smart was canned. and mark jackson was hired, a coach who proceeded to give curry a long leash. if those material conditions were not altered, if monta ellis and keith smart were still in place, people would still be talking about curry's inconsistency, his inability to take the leap into stardom...

so, let's create a hypothetical trajectory for tyreke evans in sacramento: kings ownership changes hands. isaiah thomas is shifted into a sixth man role. keith smart is canned. and "x" coach is hired who proceeds to give tyreke a considerably longer leash. don't these material conditions sound like they'd facilitate the same kind of growth we've seen in stephen curry across the last couple of seasons? now, the major difference between the warriors' prior situation and the kings' current situation is that demarcus cousins reads a lot closer to superstar potential than evans, so we don't even need to see evans explode as curry has. it's more important to the future of this team that demarcus takes the next step, but tyreke has more than enough talent and more than enough versatility to become an all-star quality second option...

 

[Telemachus]

My problem with Tyreke is mainly 2 basic issues:

1) If Tyreke is (or could be) so good, why has he been so spectacularly inconsistent during FOUR YEARS of starter-minute play?

Oddly enough, I think one of Tyreke's problems is that he is almost "too" coachable. He takes what his coaches ask him to do (even when it goes against what would be best for him), and tries his best to do it. It made no sense for him to play primarily off the ball for long stretches this season, but he did it. He needs a bigger ego, or at least be willing to go against the grain a bit more. He is a naturally aggressive player, and that is when he is at his best. A good coach wouldn't try to subdue that part of his game. A good example of this would be Ginobli of the Spurs. Popovich could have tried to quell his aggressive nature when he came into the league, but knew that was a large part of what made him a good player. So he decided that he would have to put up with the plays that make you want to pull your hair out in order to get the great plays that more than off-set them.

 

[Agent23]

Oddly enough, I think one of Tyreke's problems is that he is almost "too" coachable. He takes what his coaches ask him to do (even when it goes against what would be best for him), and tries his best to do it. It made no sense for him to play primarily off the ball for long stretches this season, but he did it. He needs a bigger ego, or at least be willing to go against the grain a bit more. He is a naturally aggressive player, and that is when he is at his best. A good coach wouldn't try to subdue that part of his game. A good example of this would be Ginobli of the Spurs. Popovich could have tried to quell his aggressive nature when he came into the league, but knew that was a large part of what made him a good player. So he decided that he would have to put up with the plays that make you want to pull your hair out in order to get the great plays that more than off-set them.

And the same could be said of Russell Westbrook. You live with the good and the bad.

 

[upinsmoke]

I would also like to see Evans & T.Douglas get extended playing time together that duo seems like it has a chance be successful.

 

[Chupacabra]

Tyreke is a great player and I kind of just don't see him fitting in with our team.

I challenge you to specify why you think he doesn't fit and who you think our team consists of. Who are these players that you think tyreke needs to fit in with?

 

[Chupacabra]

The thing that slays me about the Tyreke banter is that there is always the question of fit. He doesn't fit, or the team doesn't fit, or the coach doesn't fit. Nothing fits with Tyreke. He'll be entering into his 5th year and we're still talking about how he fits with this team. If a guy doesn't fit after four years in the league, then you have to wonder about a lot of things. You have to wonder whether he is really a star in the making, or just a good piece that doesn't fit. To my mind, if you're a star, you're going to fit with any team that surrounds you because you're good enough to do so. The argument that the team needs to be built around Tyreke because he is a star is totally wrong headed. The question of fit comes up repeatedly because in fact he's not a star. That doesn't mean he's a bad player, nor does it mean he's not above average. But he doesn't fit. Much of the reason he doesn't fit is because his game is limited. He's not versatile. He's improved in that regard since he came into the league, but not enough to fit. So does a new coach make a difference? A new coach is not going to make Tyreke more versatile; that's up to Tyreke to do in the off-season. The best a new coach can do is define his role and make sure Tyreke knows his role and do what he can do very well and not do the things he doesn't do well. I would imagine that then Tyreke would be a better fit for this team. But enough of a fit? I really don't know. What would have made this question so much easier to answer is if Tyreke had in fact become a much more well rounded player over the last four years. The discussion would then be moot. We'd be talking about how many All-Star appearances he would be likely to have, not whether he fits with this team or not.

Does he fit? He was the 2nd best player on the team. I have a hard time buying any of this. You've got to take into account our coaching/front office/ownership situation.

 

[Glenn]

Many people think Tyreke is the 2nd best player on the team and some have been convinced by the announcers' hysteria that the 2nd best is IT or maybe MT. The question might better be put as to why the team doesn't fit Tyreke. I consider him the 2nd best and wonder why he has been treated like a piece of dung. I doubt if you will find many successful teams who force one of their best players to become something that he isn't. It's a waste of skill and he might as well be traded to a team that appreciates what a great athlete he is. Hopefully we would get similar quality back. Or perhaps we should just let him go as that is our option this summer. Problem solved. If we took that action, I swear many of those complaining about Tyreke would come back screaming about how inadequate our FO is.

 

[Double-K]

Thank you!

This fascination with shooters is concerning. In a play off game where the defence picks it up another notch, give me a slasher who can beat teams off the dribble over a sweet shooter who can go cold at any moment any day of the week and twice on Sundays. Tyreke Evans with a consistent, respectable jump shot is a player that is MUCH MUCH more difficult to guard than a shooter.

This franchise's fascination with shooters is one of the key reasons why we are one of the most unsuccessful franchises in sports history. When the Dallas upset the Heat to win the championship a couple of years ago, all the experts were saying just what a difference Tyson Chandler made to that team and he was the main reason why they were able to make the jump. Even Dirk and coach Carlisle made the same comments yet our soon to be departed owners and soon to be sacked front office walked away with the conclusion that "you've got to have shooters"! The sad thing is, that was the exact quote from our franchise.

Mind Blown!!!!

I agree wholeheartedly. It's like they say, "you live by the 3s, you die by the 3s".

You can't get higher percentage than shooting from next to the rim. The MAIN reason for Tyreke Evans to improve his outside shot is so that the slashing will be so much easier for him when the opponents have to account for his outside shot.

 

[HndsmCelt]

This is not rocket science folks. Watch past seasons and watch guys with similar games (Wade, to some degree Kobe). Reek needs the ball an space to work. One one one he will take most defenders most of the time, the problem come with 1. making room for him to work, 2. having solid help to pass out to when the double team forms, and 3 (this is on his part) recognizing the double as it forms and getting the ball to the open guy.

It is no surprise that when you pair him up with shoot first point guards, clog the paint and only leave one guy out side who hates to pass him self Reeks offense stagnates. So trade the whole lot of chuckers if you have to and bring me one good starting guard who likes to pass and can shoot outside (I don't care if you call him a 1 or a 2) and let him and Reek work together to move the ball. Then you can make teams pay for double teams, score more easily and offensive rebounding becomes less of an issue.

 

[Gary]

This is not rocket science folks. Watch past seasons and watch guys with similar games (Wade, to some degree Kobe). Reek needs the ball an space to work. One one one he will take most defenders most of the time, the problem come with 1. making room for him to work, 2. having solid help to pass out to when the double team forms, and 3 (this is on his part) recognizing the double as it forms and getting the ball to the open guy.

It is no surprise that when you pair him up with shoot first point guards, clog the paint and only leave one guy out side who hates to pass him self Reeks offense stagnates. So trade the whole lot of chuckers if you have to and bring me one good starting guard who likes to pass and can shoot outside (I don't care if you call him a 1 or a 2) and let him and Reek work together to move the ball. Then you can make teams pay for double teams, score more easily and offensive rebounding becomes less of an issue.

I think Evans was FINALLY getting his role at the end of the year (Last 20-30 games). I wouldn't want to jinx that and put him back at PG or give him the ball and tell him to "do his thing" at this point. I would rather see how his off the ball play does this year. He seemed to have done very well towards the end of the year playing off the ball.

I just don't want to go back to the team shooting 38% and having 10-14 assists a night. That's not fun basketball and it seems to wear on the players as well.

 

[Spike]

I just don't want to go back to the team shooting 38% and having 10-14 assists a night. That's not fun basketball and it seems to wear on the players as well.

...didn't this happen quite a bit this year?

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I'd be perfectly happy to see Evans be a full-time SG next season, and never play PG again, as long as we get a starting PG who's not going to play keep away with him or Cousins. Preferably, a big one.

 

[sdballer]

I think Evans was FINALLY getting his role at the end of the year (Last 20-30 games). I wouldn't want to jinx that and put him back at PG or give him the ball and tell him to "do his thing" at this point. I would rather see how his off the ball play does this year. He seemed to have done very well towards the end of the year playing off the ball.

I just don't want to go back to the team shooting 38% and having 10-14 assists a night. That's not fun basketball and it seems to wear on the players as well.

2013 season (Not a pg Reke off the ball): Team assists per game-20.8, Team fg%-44%
2009 season (Ball stopping Reke holding back the team: Team assists per game-20.5, Team fg%-45%

 

[jalfa]

the only problem with having Tyreke not play as a PG at all is that it absolutely necessitates trading Marcus Thornton. not that there's something wrong with trading him, but when potential partners know that you *have* to trade him, it deminishes his value even more than last season's debacle already has (though his averages per 36 have basically not changed).

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Eh, Thornton in overpaid, IMO, but considering that he's under contract until 2015, and isn't a problem in the locker room, I don't know if I agree to any extent that it would be "known" that we "*have*" to trade him...

 

[HndsmCelt]

Again I think people get way too hung up on labels. A point guard in a traditional line up does dominate the ball until the first pass. But those situations have changed a great deal in the modern NBA. Weather Evans is considered the PG or the SG is less important that HOW the other guard plays. If the other guy can pass and consistently hit the long ball is the important thing (think Dough Christi) But when Tyreke has to play with guys who are constantly either looking for their own shot or the big men, then you have Reek standing out side waiting, and if the bigs are clogging the paint if/when he does get the ball it's jumper time. While he does have a jump shot it is NOT his forte. I want to see him cutting to the hoop, and playing in the open court, not setting up for 10-15 footers. An offense that shares the ball opens the panit and looks for their 2 best scorers will benefit from Tyreek whether he takes the ball down court or not.

 

[jalfa]

Eh, Thornton in overpaid, IMO, but considering that he's under contract until 2015, and isn't a problem in the locker room, I don't know if I agree to any extent that it would be "known" that we "*have*" to trade him...

well, if Reke assumes the 36 mpg at the SG he deserves, we're all of a sudden stuck paying a 12 mpg backup 8 million dollars a year. his problem is that he can be exclusively played at the SG spot and that's where Reke would be playing full-time. nobody wants Reke back at SF (I hope), so if you don't want to play Reke at the PG, you have to trade Thornton. quite a few gms will look at the situation, see Thornton's declining minutes and, hopefully, the expensive new contract Reke will be getting and start offering peanuts for Thornton.

 

[LPKingsFan]

bring me one good starting guard who likes to pass and can shoot outside (I don't care if you call him a 1 or a 2) and let him and Reek work together to move the ball.

John Salmons?

 

[HndsmCelt]

John Salmons?

That's just mean!

 

[Darth Divac]

We had John play the 3, but I agree that it would've been far more effective to keep Reke at the 1, Salmons at the 2, and someone else at the 3 (Garcia?).

The lineup of
Reke
Salmons
Garcia
Thompson
Cousins
was our best from a team standpoint. We moved the ball, Salmons and Garcia provided defense and spacing, Reke and Cuz provided the primary offense, JT and Cuz gave us around 20 RPG, MT and IT gave instant offense off the bench, and it was generally as close to a competent team as we fielded this year.

 

[upinsmoke]

If Denver plans to re-sign Iggy & mozgov AND Faried down the road Wilson Chandler could be a movable peice this summer. I think JT or MT + 1st rounder could get this done.

1. T.Douglas
2. Evans
3. Chandler
4. Patterson
5. Cuz
RESERVES: IT, Aldrich, MT*, Hayes, Salmons

 

[Darth Divac]

If Denver plans to re-sign Iggy & mozgov AND Faried down the road Wilson Chandler could be a movable peice this summer. I think JT or MT + 1st rounder could get this done.

1. T.Douglas
2. Evans
3. Chandler
4. Patterson
5. Cuz
RESERVES: IT, Aldrich, MT*, Hayes, Salmons

This.

 

[Gary]

2013 season (Not a pg Reke off the ball): Team assists per game-20.8, Team fg%-44%
2009 season (Ball stopping Reke holding back the team: Team assists per game-20.5, Team fg%-45%

First half of last year (before the change to IT and before the all-star break) the team was under 40% and like 14 assists per game.

I still want to see Evans play SG though and I don't mind him playing part time at PG since he does have a few years of experience there now.

 

[Padrino]

First half of last year (before the change to IT and before the all-star break) the team was under 40% and like 14 assists per game.

I still want to see Evans play SG though and I don't mind him playing part time at PG since he does have a few years of experience there now.

before the all-star break, the kings averaged 44% shooting to go along with 19.7 assists per game. neither of those stats are anything to write home about, but you're greatly exaggerating the team's early season difficulties...

 

[mac]

2013 season (Not a pg Reke off the ball): Team assists per game-20.8, Team fg%-44%
2009 season (Ball stopping Reke holding back the team: Team assists per game-20.5, Team fg%-45%

Or how about:
2009 season (Ball stopping Reke holding back the team). Roster: 2nd year JT, Spencer Hawes, Omri Casspi (soon to be out of NBA/bench warmer), Beno, Noc (out of NBA), Garcia, Sean May (out of NBA), Ime Udoka (out of NBA), Jon Brockman (out of NBA), Carl Landry, Dominic McGuire, Donte Greene (benchwarmer). Record - 25-57

2012-13 season Roster: 5th year much improved JT, potential best big man DMC, Isaiah Thomas (future HOFer), John Salmons, Marcus Thornton, Travis Outlaw, Jimmer Fredette, Toney Douglas, Cole Aldrich, PPat. Used to have: Aaron Brooks (backup PG on playoff team), Francisco Garcia (starter on playoff team), Thomas Robinson, Tyler Honeycutt. Record - 28-54

You're telling me that if we just kept Tyreke at PG and let him gain proper coaching and experience there for 3 years we could possibly do worse than a 3 game improvement?

 

[Telemachus]

before the all-star break, the kings averaged 44% shooting to go along with 19.7 assists per game. neither of those stats are anything to write home about, but you're greatly exaggerating the team's early season difficulties...

Not to mention that Tyreke spent pretty much the whole season at SG. Prior to IT playing the point, it was Aaron Brooks.

 

[The_Jamal]

Or how about:
2009 season (Ball stopping Reke holding back the team). Roster: 2nd year JT, Spencer Hawes, Omri Casspi (soon to be out of NBA/bench warmer), Beno, Noc (out of NBA), Garcia, Sean May (out of NBA), Ime Udoka (out of NBA), Jon Brockman (out of NBA), Carl Landry, Dominic McGuire, Donte Greene (benchwarmer). Record - 25-57

2012-13 season Roster: 5th year much improved JT, potential best big man DMC, Isaiah Thomas (future HOFer), John Salmons, Marcus Thornton, Travis Outlaw, Jimmer Fredette, Toney Douglas, Cole Aldrich, PPat. Used to have: Aaron Brooks (backup PG on playoff team), Francisco Garcia (starter on playoff team), Thomas Robinson, Tyler Honeycutt. Record - 28-54

You're telling me that if we just kept Tyreke at PG and let him gain proper coaching and experience there for 3 years we could possibly do worse than a 3 game improvement?

I think our coaching issues had just a smidge more to do with the 3 win improvement than Tyreke not playing PG. I've loved watching the Bulls this playoffs; it shows how a coach and installing a culture can be more valuable than pure talent.

 

[blackice]

Tyreke is going to be our two way player in my opinion. He will be our second go to scorer and guard opposing guards when the time comes. First things first though, we need to see what his value is on the open market. I am intrigued to find out what he will be commanding, I just can't wait til after the 15th is done with and we can finally start talking about the NBA Lottery, draft and free agency.