Help at the 2

[ppine]

With the acquisition of Gay, the Kings' glaring weakness for years at the 3 has been solved. The 1 and the 5 are playing consistently. The 2 has been weak to a surprising extent. The next trade will hopefully be for a quality, experienced shooting guard that would add a lot to both ends along side what is becoming a 1-3-5 punch.

To see McLemore get a grade of C last night was a gift. He should be coming off the bench since he has been over-exposed this season.

JT is working really hard and has improved his defense and rebounding.

I would in favor of trades rather than relying on the draft. It has proven to be much more risky.

 

[Hadlowe]

As poor as the play from our shooting guards has been, and despite JT's recent solid play, I still believe that the #1 need for the team is a solid interior defender and shot blocker. That's the foundational piece. Once we have that, we can see what our actual team defense looks like.

 

[Padrino]

on a team that features demarcus cousins, rudy gay, and isaiah thomas (whether he remains a starter or is eventually moved back to the bench, he'll obviously continue to score points in bunches), the SG position is largely irrelevant in terms of offensive production. honestly, if mclemore ever reaches his potential as a high level off-ball jump shooter who can use his length and athleticism to defend the wing, then he'll be the perfect starting SG for this team. unfortunately, he looks to be several seasons away from realizing that potential, if at all. in the meantime, the kings mostly just need thornton/mclemore to not blow it as the team slowly builds chemistry and continuity on both sides of the ball...

As poor as the play from our shooting guards has been, and despite JT's recent solid play, I still believe that the #1 need for the team is a solid interior defender and shot blocker. That's the foundational piece. Once we have that, we can see what our actual team defense looks like.

indeed. it is more important that the kings are able to acquire a solid interior defender to pair with demarcus cousins. the team certainly needs help via a starting-caliber SG and/or a starting-caliber PG who can defend against dribble penetration with some level of consistency, but i'd say that bringing in a rim protector is priority #1...

 

[SacKings2002NBAChampions]

The rim protector will come from the draft hopefully. Lots of good rim protectors and shot blockers in the upcoming draft.

If you don't consider Wiggins a SG, then the draft looks pretty bleak at the 2 position, so we should look to get a decent trade for an experienced SG and backup/starting experienced point guard.

 

[Chubbs]

We really DON'T need a SG at this point. We need the young guy to develop. It would be foolish to give up a bunch for another SG when you just drafted the best one available. Ben is EXACTLY what we need in theory, and the fact he's focused on D is perfect for now. It takes time. Took Cuz 3 full up and down seasons to get where he is. Granted, he showed a LOT more early. But, still, it's too quick to give up. I'd be shocked to hear the FO was already bailing on Ben.

We are not to the all-star break in year 1 with the kid. I get the concerns. I share them. He's rushing everything. He's out of control at times. He doesn't know when or where to get his shots. But this is a growing year. We have to let it happen. I don't see any need for urgency at this point.

OK, I'm repeating Padrino I just noticed. But yeah, what he said.

 

[twslam07]

We really DON'T need a SG at this point. We need the young guy to develop. It would be foolish to give up a bunch for another SG when you just drafted the best one available. Ben is EXACTLY what we need in theory, and the fact he's focused on D is perfect for now. It takes time. Took Cuz 3 full up and down seasons to get where he is. Granted, he showed a LOT more early. But, still, it's too quick to give up. I'd be shocked to hear the FO was already bailing on Ben.

We are not to the all-star break in year 1 with the kid. I get the concerns. I share them. He's rushing everything. He's out of control at times. He doesn't know when or where to get his shots. But this is a growing year. We have to let it happen. I don't see any need for urgency at this point.

OK, I'm repeating Padrino I just noticed. But yeah, what he said.

This. Why do you guys want to waste assets trading for a SG when we already have our SG of the future? I know everyone wants a quick fix, but we need to have the mindset that our SG spot is filled. The way I see it is we have 4 spots on this team filled...

PG - ???/Thomas
SG - McLemore/???
SF - Gay/???
PF - ???/???
C - Cousins/???

Everything else is up for grabs. I could be convinced that Landry could work as our 3rd big off the bench if Cousins keeps showing improvement on the defensive side of the ball thus not weakening our frontcourt defense too much when Landry is in, but I want to reserve that judgement after I see Cousins and Landry play together this year.

Drafting a guy like Exum would give us a solid 3 guard rotation for years to come using Exum, McLemore, and Thomas (Exum and Thomas could play together since Exum could guard SGs with his size and length). It's intriguing to say the least.

 

[Chubbs]

I think it's worth pointing out the sg spot is still giving us nothing after the move to start Thornton. Last 3 games MT has 9 points. Combined. Clearly he's not the reason we have won 3 straight.

Frankly, I don't think Ben was costing us games,. Same with Thornton. The sg role on this team as a scorer doesn't exist. They're not taking enough shots to matter one way or the other.

 

[Hallama]

Kings have three major needs:

PF/C shot blocker, defensive minded, garbage/hustle on offense. JT is playing great, but he's not the best match alongside Cuz as a starter. Would love to have him off the bench and would fill a need for an above avg backup PF/C. I'd rank this highest since this is a hard position to fill. Not too many Ibaka type's out there.

SG like many have mentioned, with the three gunners in the starting lineup, there just aren't many shots available. Even Thorton gets downright ignored. Not sure if I'd want a pure outside shooter that sacrifices D, or a tough defender with limited O. Ben and Thorton provide neither at this point, but Ben may blossom into a spot up shooter and decent defender. Thorton has just given up. Size might be good here to help Isiah on D against taller PG's. I can see why Pete'D is high on Klay Thompson, an underrated defender and doesn't need the ball but a deadly (but streaky) shooter.

PG that puts Isiah back on the bench as a top 6th man. But he would need to be better than Vasquez. Exum would be an incredible fit if he lives up to the hype.

SF incredibly, from the worst SFs in the league to a top 3 pairing in Gay/Williams? Definitely top 5.

 

[VF21]

I think people are going to have to accept that IT is most likely our starting PG for the foreseeable future. And at this point, I can live with that. We definitely need a shot blocker/running mate for DFC. Doing that would go a long ways towards making our young Kings competitive every single night. JT is not bad, but while he can board he just doesn't have the shot-blocker mentality.

 

[Padrino]

I think people are going to have to accept that IT is most likely our starting PG for the foreseeable future. And at this point, I can live with that. We definitely need a shot blocker/running mate for DFC. Doing that would go a long ways towards making our young Kings competitive every single night. JT is not bad, but while he can board he just doesn't have the shot-blocker mentality.

to get Slim Citrus-level pedantic for a moment, it should be noted that "the foreseeable future" includes a very tough six-game road trip in which the kings could easily backslide and drop the entire set, while losing grip on their budding chemistry in the process. i certainly hope that they don't walk away from this road trip having gone 0-6 or 1-5 or even 2-4, but those are hardly unthinkable scenarios, and i seriously doubt that PDA is about to put down the phone as the trade deadline approaches just because the kings clobbered a couple of eastern conference basement-dwellers at home...

that said, i wouldn't be a bit surprised if IT remains the kings starting PG for the remainder of the season, and i also wouldn't be surprised if another trade occurs that brings a starting-caliber PG to the kings, or if IT himself was traded before the deadline, considering that his value is at an all-time high. there are just so many variables up in the air for this team that it's impossible to predict what the roster will look like when training camp opens for the '14-'15 season, when the kings should be considerably more poised to make a legitimate playoff run...

 

[VF21]

I'm going to stand by my prediction that IT isn't going anywhere. It's not about any one thing, as much as it's about the whole enchilada, so to speak. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but it's still my prediction.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Drafting a guy like Exum would give us a solid 3 guard rotation for years to come using Exum, McLemore, and Thomas (Exum and Thomas could play together since Exum could guard SGs with his size and length). It's intriguing to say the least.

At the risk of turning yet another Kings Rap thread into a draft discussion, I definitely agree with this assessment.

As for the broader picture, Landry is still very much an x-factor. He could make sense as a third big, but if your rotation is going to be Cousins/player X/Landry, then player X needs to be a more robust rim protector than Thompson. We know the FO is more than willing to turn around and trade their recent acquisitions (see Mbah a Moute) but I have a a hard time seeing them do the same with Landry. I also have a hard time seeing him fit in with the current rotation, so something will have to give. Will be interesting to see how it plays out.

Finally, as for SG, the hope remains that Thornton comes on strong the next few weeks and turns into a tradeable asset. Barring that, would simply like to see some signs of life from Ben. Never expected a star (remember how poorly thought of the 2013 draft class was? Even being a possible top pick in the 2013 draft does not mean you were expected to be anything close to a star) but would like to see some encouraging signs that a reliable 3 and D guy could be there.

 

[VF21]

At the risk of turning yet another Kings Rap thread into a draft discussion, I definitely agree with this assessment.

As for the broader picture, Landry is still very much an x-factor. He could make sense as a third big, but if your rotation is going to be Cousins/player X/Landry, then player X needs to be a more robust rim protector than Thompson. We know the FO is more than willing to turn around and trade their recent acquisitions (see Mbah a Moute) but I have a a hard time seeing them do the same with Landry. I also have a hard time seeing him fit in with the current rotation, so something will have to give. Will be interesting to see how it plays out.

Finally, as for SG, the hope remains that Thornton comes on strong the next few weeks and turns into a tradeable asset. Barring that, would simply like to see some signs of life from Ben. Never expected a star (remember how poorly thought of the 2013 draft class was? Even being a possible top pick in the 2013 draft does not mean you were expected to be anything close to a star) but would like to see some encouraging signs that a reliable 3 and D guy could be there.

No, please no. There is absolutely nothing new to be said about the future draft at this point. Nothing. If you actually go back and read all the stuff that's been said already, it could probably be listed with number and people could just post the number corresponding to the point they're trying to make.

It would be so much easier.

In all honesty, I'm not even sure why this is a separate thread.

 

[twslam07]

At the risk of turning yet another Kings Rap thread into a draft discussion, I definitely agree with this assessment.

As for the broader picture, Landry is still very much an x-factor. He could make sense as a third big, but if your rotation is going to be Cousins/player X/Landry, then player X needs to be a more robust rim protector than Thompson. We know the FO is more than willing to turn around and trade their recent acquisitions (see Mbah a Moute) but I have a a hard time seeing them do the same with Landry. I also have a hard time seeing him fit in with the current rotation, so something will have to give. Will be interesting to see how it plays out.

Finally, as for SG, the hope remains that Thornton comes on strong the next few weeks and turns into a tradeable asset. Barring that, would simply like to see some signs of life from Ben. Never expected a star (remember how poorly thought of the 2013 draft class was? Even being a possible top pick in the 2013 draft does not mean you were expected to be anything close to a star) but would like to see some encouraging signs that a reliable 3 and D guy could be there.

I would love to have a Thompson like player as our third big off the bench. Similar to your view, I don't see the FO wanting to trade Landry considering they just signed him. I would be thrilled if we had a big man rotation of Cousins, Ed Davis, and Thompson (or something of that nature) going forward, but considering we need a shotblocker and the fact that Cousins isn't going anywhere makes me think Thompson is the odd man out and Landry is here to stay. Personally, I wish it was the other way around...

But I digress as this thread should be focued on SGs and not searching for shotblockers and what to do with the Thompson/Landry situation.

 

[JLoss22]

Terrence Williams would help out at the 2.... Wish we would sign him.

 

[Siranthony]

McLemore is going to be good. He needs to start taking as many shots as possible in practice. He is not a good shooter. But he is very athletic and shows it on his dunks.

 

[Bricklayer]

McLemore is going to be good. He needs to start taking as many shots as possible in practice. He is not a good shooter. But he is very athletic and shows it on his dunks.

There are thousands of hyper athletic guys with no NBA careers at all. With no real ability to create, he's GOT to be able to hit open shots on one end, and defend on the other end in order to have a career as anything more than a dunk contest participant. His blatant ability to do neither at this level so far is distressing.

 

[twslam07]

Terrence Williams would help out at the 2.... Wish we would sign him.

It appears he has had issues everywhere he has ended up. Considering the FO has been adamant about bringing in "character guys," I don't think he is remotely on our radar.

 

[Hadlowe]

Terrence Williams would help out at the 2.... Wish we would sign him.

Dude threatened his baby momma with a gun. I'll take a pass on him.

 

[rexb_kings]

Let BenMcLemore grow into the position. He's got the tools, just need to build his confidence. Reminds of Clay Thompson when he first started, Jackson and Malone kept playing him even if didn't play and shoot very well early in his rookie year. And now look at where he is now, the other half of Splash brothers with Curry. Trading Ellis actually helped and hastened Curry and Thompson's growth.

 

[ppine]

You can make a case for the shot blocker/rebounder as the next acquisition. But Cousins is playing great at the 5. Finding the Ibaka type player at the 4 is not easy. If you move Cousins to the 4, it is risky. JT is playing with a high level of effort. Landry will help. To get nothing from the SHOOTING GUARD spot is a waste of opportunity. I still think the 2 is the next logical acquisition. It could be a veteran player toward the end of his career.

 

[twslam07]

You can make a case for the shot blocker/rebounder as the next acquisition. But Cousins is playing great at the 5. Finding the Ibaka type player at the 4 is not easy. If you move Cousins to the 4, it is risky. JT is playing with a high level of effort. Landry will help. To get nothing from the SHOOTING GUARD spot is a waste of opportunity. I still think the 2 is the next logical acquisition. It could be a veteran player toward the end of his career.

I don't follow this line of thinking. Why acquire a SG with the assets we have versus a shotblocker? We have our SG of the future already plus a SG vet (who has been struggling). It doesn't make sense to make this team better in a way that won't also help the team in the long run. Trading for a stop-gap SG this year will make the team better this year, but that player likely won't be involved in the long term plans of the team since we, again, have our SG of the future already. So basically we improved the team this year (in a year we're not ready to compete in the playoffs) by getting a player who is not part of the team's long term plans thus giving us a worse chance at a high pick in next year's draft. (Essentially, we don't add a future player, and we get a worse pick.)

versus...

Trading for a shotblocker who will make our team better this year, but the difference is that this player will be in the team's future plans. We gave ourselves a worse chance at a high pick, but we gain a valuable shotblocker who we will need going forward in the future. We won't need the SG going forward. (Essentially, we add a future player, but we get a worse pick.)

I am fine with adding talent to the team this year (thus giving us a worse pick next year) as long as we plan on using these players as an integral part of our team in the future. By acquiring a SG in a trade, we are not doing that, and in the end, it would leave us with a weaker team overall.

So to answer the question of the thread. No, we don't need help at the 2.

 

[jcwkings]

Ben needs a lot of work, but to call him a bust already is beyond stupid. Plenty of rookies have had shooting struggles(let alone 20 year old ones). Also defensively there are rarely any rookies who would even be considered average. Ben shows flashes of being a good defender and he has the phsyical tools, but he is very raw. The problem is the early comparisons to Ray Allen, fans expect way too much right away.

Also if I posted these stats

19.3 PPG, 6.3 APG, 2.9 Reb, .453 FG%, .410 3P%, .860 FT%, 1.4 ST, 2.6 TO, 22.38 PER

Everyone on this board would be ecstatic to get that kind of production from the PG position in the modern NBA(not the John Stockton/Gary Payton era). Also that player has great intangibles(great leadership, tough as nails, plays with a passion, not afraid of the big moment), but since he's 5'9 we need to trade him and get a real PG.

 

[twslam07]

Ben needs a lot of work, but to call him a bust already is beyond stupid. Plenty of rookies have had shooting struggles(let alone 20 year old ones). Also defensively there are rarely any rookies who would even be considered average. Ben shows flashes of being a good defender and he has the phsyical tools, but he is very raw. The problem is the early comparisons to Ray Allen, fans expect way too much right away.

Also if I posted these stats

19.3 PPG, 6.3 APG, 2.9 Reb, .453 FG%, .410 3P%, .860 FT%, 1.4 ST, 2.6 TO, 22.38 PER

Everyone on this board would be ecstatic to get that kind of production from the PG position in the modern NBA(not the John Stockton/Gary Payton era). Also that player has great intangibles(great leadership, tough as nails, plays with a passion, not afraid of the big moment), but since he's 5'9 we need to trade him and get a real PG.

I'm just happy that McLemore will spend his first 3 years (at least) under Coach Malone. It's got to bode well for his development on the defensive side of the ball to come to a team and instantly have that type of coach in your ear everyday. I love it.

In regards to your last paragraph, I don't even know why you're bringing IT into this argument. We're talking about needing a SG. Additionally, I don't know why you're making a general statement like the majority of KingsFans.com want to trade him for a starting PG. I would say the large majority of us would love to acquire a starting PG and put Thomas in the sixth man role. We don't dislike him, and many of us see the value he brings to the team.

 

[KingMilz]

Playing Rudy Gay more @ the two and giving more playing time to Williams at the three sounds great to fixing the SG issue.

 

[bajaden]

The rim protector will come from the draft hopefully. Lots of good rim protectors and shot blockers in the upcoming draft.

If you don't consider Wiggins a SG, then the draft looks pretty bleak at the 2 position, so we should look to get a decent trade for an experienced SG and backup/starting experienced point guard.

I don't want to turn this into a draft thread, but I think bleak is a little extreme. Maybe if your only referring potential star players, but there are some players that could turn into fine NBA players.

Gary Harris
Jordan Adams
Zach Lavine
Jordan Clarkson
P. J. Hairston (Suspended for the year)
Nik Stauskas
Dez Wells

All these guy have NBA potential, just some more than others. None are top ten players however, except for maybe Lavine, if he declares, and Gary Harris, with Jordan Adams going mid to late first round.

 

[bajaden]

You can make a case for the shot blocker/rebounder as the next acquisition. But Cousins is playing great at the 5. Finding the Ibaka type player at the 4 is not easy. If you move Cousins to the 4, it is risky. JT is playing with a high level of effort. Landry will help. To get nothing from the SHOOTING GUARD spot is a waste of opportunity. I still think the 2 is the next logical acquisition. It could be a veteran player toward the end of his career.

If your looking to build a team that can play together for 10 years or so, then you don't add a starting SG that's near the end of his career, unless he's just a stop gap measure till a player like McLemore can get up to speed. There are several players in the upcoming draft that may fill our need at the defensive rim protector position. Some better than others, or some a little raw to start, but with very good upside.

 

[twslam07]

I don't want to turn this into a draft thread, but I think bleak is a little extreme. Maybe if your only referring potential star players, but there are some players that could turn into fine NBA players.

Gary Harris
Jordan Adams
Zach Lavine
Jordan Clarkson
P. J. Hairston (Suspended for the year)
Nik Stauskas
Dez Wells

All these guy have NBA potential, just some more than others. None are top ten players however, except for maybe Lavine, if he declares, and Gary Harris, with Jordan Adams going mid to late first round.

You could probably throw Wiggins, Smart, and J. Young in there too. From what I've seen, I think they can all play SG at the NBA level, but I'll let you speak more to that if you would like, Baja.

 

[bajaden]

There are thousands of hyper athletic guys with no NBA careers at all. With no real ability to create, he's GOT to be able to hit open shots on one end, and defend on the other end in order to have a career as anything more than a dunk contest participant. His blatant ability to do neither at this level so far is distressing.

I don't think anyone disagrees with that. I think we just have to think of McLemore as a very young, raw talent, and a player that's probably not going to have a lot of impact on the team for a year or more. As long as our expectations are realistic, then its not a problem. Its not as though he costing us an arm and a leg. I agree that the SG positon isn't contributing very much right now, but I put more of the blame on Thornton than I do McLemore. McLemore is where he belongs right now, off the bench. If Thornton would play better, then we could reduce Ben's minutes a bit more, and not put so much responsibility on him. I'm not really worried about his shooting that much. As soon as he learns to slow down and let the game come to him a little more, I think his shot will start falling again. Defensively he has a lot to learn, and its going to take time.

I remember when Gerald Wallace said he couldn't wait to guard Kobe and shut him down. Well, it took him a while to get his chance, but he didn't like the outcome very much. Ahhhh, the innocent enthusiasm of youth!

 

[bajaden]

You could probably throw Wiggins, Smart, and J. Young in there too. From what I've seen, I think they can all play SG at the NBA level, but I'll let you speak more to that if you would like, Baja.

I like Wiggins better at the SF position, because of his 6'8" height, and because he doesn't have the handles of a SG yet. And yeah, I would add Smart, and for that matter, you could add Exum, who while being a PG, is 6'6" and a tremendous athlete with very good handles