Has Kevin settled in?

[Bricklayer]

Or you could actually answer the question.

If you even have an answer.

I wonder where this idea that Kevin can shoot ever came from? I've watched evey game this year and have never seen any shooting from Kevin. Can you tell me where this comes from?

Two can play at the same asinine game. Then you have to run off and waste your time collecting stats and putting together some sort of detailed post to prove something not only obvious on its face, but heavily canvassed again and again on this very board. And sorry, do not have time to indulge in such silliness.

I use silly BTW, because stupid is harsher, and silly is appropriately dismissive without me having to actually go and tear each new poster a new orifice every time. Saves on the fussing and fighting.

 

[vistacruza_kings]

I wonder where this idea that Kevin can shoot ever came from? I've watched evey game this year and have never seen any shooting from Kevin. Can you tell me where this comes from?

Two can play at the same asinine game. Then you have to run off and waste your time collecting stats and putting together some sort of detailed post to prove something not only obvious on its face, but heavily canvassed again and again on this very board. And sorry, do not have time to indulge in such silliness.

I use silly BTW, because stupid is harsher, and silly is appropriately dismissive without me having to actually go and tear each new poster a new orifice every time. Saves on the fussing and fighting.

Brick just give it up, its getting old. we get it, YOU HATE KEVIN MARTIN! i thought player bashing was not allowed on here. Or does brick have his own set of rules .

 

[Bricklayer]

Brick just give it up, its getting old. we get it, YOU HATE KEVIN MARTIN! i thought player bashing was not allowed on here. Or does brick have his own set of rules .

You know, what is getting rather old around here is you. If you have something substantive to post you had best around to doing it, because if all you are going to do is run around from thread to thread whining about me you are going to find out two things 1) that I ain't going anywhere; and b) that I am rapidly going to run out of use for you.

You don't like something I post, attack it on its merits, if you can. Many successful posters aorund here regularly disagree with me. They are of course wrong, but they make quality posts. If you can't...best to leave it alone.

 

[vistacruza_kings]

You know, what is getting rather old around here is you. If you have something substantive to post you had best around to doing it, because if all you are going to do is run around from thread to thread whining about me you are going to find out two things 1) that I ain't going anywhere; and b) that I am rapidly going to run out of use for you.

You don't like something I post, attack it on its merits, if you can. If you can't...best to leave it alone.

from now on i am now going to refer to bricklayer as LITTLE PUPPET

 

[xrzn]

Many successful posters aorund here regularly disagree with me. They are of course wrong, but they make quality posts.

Hahahahaha Post of the year.

 

[pupsingh]

is it possible to see what the fan message boards looked like in the webber days?

 

[Entity]

I am not sure why the misconception that Kevin and Tyreke both can't get 14-18 shot attempts each and nobody really be left out. For instance in 06-07 we had Ron Artest, Mike Bibby, Kevin Martin, Brad Miller all starting. PF by commitee with SAR, KT, Corlis. now attempts vs. average pts per game for each. (these numbers are rounded up or down)
Attemtps = A points per game = p

Kevin Martin 13A 20p
Ron Artest 15A 19p
Mike Bibby 14A 17p
Brad Miller 8A 9p
John Salmons 6A 8p
Francisco Garcia 5A 6p

KT,SAR, Corliss combined 12A 14p

The problem is not Kevin or Tyreke. They are not the problem. We have to many players in rotation. 3 SF's is silly. Nocionni needs to go. Donte needs to continue to get PF min and Beno needs to go.

Not that beno isn't any good. Its just when he is in for such a long period of time it changes the dynamic of the team and the way things are run at the pg spot. I don't mind change of pace from time to time but its the duration of time that is hurting us and sending us into lulls. our back PG should only get 15 min max.

 

[Entity]

is it possible to see what the fan message boards looked like in the webber days?

it was the same. half wanted Webber gone half wanted Peja gone. some wanted Vlade gone. nobody was happy with the back up big man except when Keon was here.

Oh BTW i see some of the same people wanting Webber gone now wishing like hell we had somebody just like that again.

 

[Bricklayer]

I am not sure why the misconception that Kevin and Tyreke both can't get 14-18 shot attempts each and nobody really be left out. For instance in 06-07 we had Ron Artest, Mike Bibby, Kevin Martin, Brad Miller all starting. PF by commitee with SAR, KT, Corlis. now attempts vs. average pts per game for each. (these numbers are rounded up or down)
Attemtps = A points per game = p

Kevin Martin 13A 20p
Ron Artest 15A 19p
Mike Bibby 14A 17p
Brad Miller 8A 9p
John Salmons 6A 8p
Francisco Garcia 5A 6p

KT,SAR, Corliss combined 12A 14p

The problem is not Kevin or Tyreke. They are not the problem. We have to many players in rotation. 3 SF's is silly. Nocionni needs to go. Donte needs to continue to get PF min and Beno needs to go.

Not that beno isn't any good. Its just when he is in for such a long period of time it changes the dynamic of the team and the way things are run at the pg spot. I don't mind change of pace from time to time but its the duration of time that is hurting us and sending us into lulls. our back PG should only get 15 min max.

You do realize that team won 33 games right?
And that Tyrke is a 25ppg scorer, not a 17 (or 19) ppg scorer
And then there's Omri. And Donte. And two double figure scoring bigs, one of whom we are hopig to UPgrade into a 20ppg type big.

 

[mac]

Question: why can't Kevin Martin be our Jamal Crawford?

 

[Sptsjunkie]

I really wish that Kevin would have settled in a little sooner. I'd like to see it happen against some good teams. Now there are no more games before the trading deadline to see if they will mesh. I'm still up in the air on trading Kevin.

The nice thing is we don't need to force a trade with him. Kevin is not an expiring contract. His value will not disappear between now and next season unless he has a terrible injury. And our team isn't makign the playoffs with or without him this year, so there's no rush to force a mediocre trade. So unless someone blows us out of the water with an offer between now and the deadline, we can simply stand pat.

Quite frankly, I don't think there are any players on the market that I would want to trade Kevin for. Let's see how the team does the rest of the season and then we can reevaluate in the offseason and start seeing which players teams are open to moving as we move towards next season.

 

[theclash4u5]

Oh, and the internet has been around a long time. Fan boards have been readily accessible since the mid 80's and for those of us with a little more computer experience, long before that. We sucked plenty before 1999.

Impossible.




Al Gore didn't invent the internet until the 90's

 

[Sptsjunkie]

We were pretty miserable in Mitch's last year, and I think the Graffiti Board was around then wasn't it?

I was posting at the Sacbee Kings board back then and the AOL Kings message board. Same handle and everything. Feels like so long ago.

 

[Bricklayer]

The nice thing is we don't need to force a trade with him. Kevin is not an expiring contract. His value will not disappear between now and next season unless he has a terrible injury. And our team isn't makign the playoffs with or without him this year, so there's no rush to force a mediocre trade. So unless someone blows us out of the water with an offer between now and the deadline, we can simply stand pat.

Quite frankly, I don't think there are any players on the market that I would want to trade Kevin for. Let's see how the team does the rest of the season and then we can reevaluate in the offseason and start seeing which players teams are open to moving as we move towards next season.

His value will absolutely erode between now and the end of the season if either a) he continues to put up far inferior numbers to those of his past; or b) we continue to struggle as a team, thus further raising red flags that are already there about his ability to function in an environment where he's not the featured scorer or c) he gets hurt again, at which point he actually might be borderline untadeable with that contract. You already saw Dirk dissing him over that issue, its been rumored to be on the minds of other GMs, and if it happens again...to a guy with declining numbers...

Its the same mistake that Geoff has always made. Waiting for the rebound that never comes until such point as nobody else believes it is coming either. You want, indeed need, to trade Kevin the 24ppg scorer that teams squint at and go ooh! Good piece! Not Kevin the 20ppg 40% shooter with injury problems. You actually needed to trade him 4 weeks ago. You do it now, you can still claim slump in a manner that might be semi-believed by about half your market. Otherwise you can end up basically trying to trade Richard Jefferson or Jason Richardson, or in our case Mike Bibby. Perception IS reality in the trade market. And the longer removed Kevin is from those big empty numbers, the lower his value sinks.

That's before we get to the fact that if Beno and Noc aren't moved at this deadline and Kevin stays the minutes and shot crunch is so great that they will effectively be unmoveable by this summer. $7mil a year 8ppg scorer anybody? And that once Cisco returns the crunch is going to be so acute that not only will Kevin's numbers never rebound, but Donte and Casspi, who should be playing every single minute they can get, will get squished. We are in a position where the value of half the assets on the team sinks if you do nothing.

 

[swisshh]

I agree that Martin's value can easily erode from here. Just compare his value now to what it may have been a year ago at this time. A year ago you could argue he was a near all-star talent with youth and potential. Now, he is nowhere near all-star discussions and people are starting to see him as having already peaked. The longer the situation goes on, the more those ideas set in and the further his value drops.

 

[beb0p]

His value will absolutely erode between now and the end of the season if either a) he continues to put up far inferior numbers to those of his past; or b) we continue to struggle as a team, thus further raising red flags that are already there about his ability to function in an environment where he's not the featured scorer or c) he gets hurt again, at which point he actually might be borderline untadeable with that contract. You already saw Dirk dissing him over that issue, its been rumored to be on the minds of other GMs, and if it happens again...to a guy with declining numbers...

Its the same mistake that Geoff has always made. Waiting for the rebound that never comes until such point as nobody else believes it is coming either. You want, indeed need, to trade Kevin the 24ppg scorer that teams squint at and go ooh! Good piece! Not Kevin the 20ppg 40% shooter with injury problems. You actually needed to trade him 4 weeks ago. You do it now, you can still claim slump in a manner that might be semi-believed by about half your market. Otherwise you can end up basically trying to trade Richard Jefferson or Jason Richardson, or in our case Mike Bibby. Perception IS reality in the trade market. And the longer removed Kevin is from those big empty numbers, the lower his value sinks.

Silliness. KMart's value is at an all-time low right now. You're proposing the equivalent of a panic sale. The classic sell-low and buy-high.

OK, let's say we trade KMart, for who? Josh Howard? T-Mac? Jose Calderson? If you just simply want to trade KMart for cap space, I got news for you, you can get that deal anytime - this summer, next season, or even the season after that. KMart for expiring is about the lowest value you can reasonably get for him. This is what I mean by sell-low, buy-high.

And I've got another news for you, Bibby and Jefferson were both turning 30 when they were traded. KMart is nowhere near that age yet. Oftentimes, not making a trade is better than making a panic trade.

As for GP's trade history, he traded Richmond, Peja, Artest, Christie, Hedo, JWill at just the right time and for the right players. GP is not a guy who holds his chips waiting for the rebound and he certainly had no problem trading away young players with upside (JWill, Hedo, etc). Any attempt to paint him as such is just that, silly and disingenuous.

.

 

[Spike]

Silliness. KMart's value is at an all-time low right now. You're proposing the equivalent of a panic sale. The classic sell-low and buy-high.

I have to disagree with you here. There are still many who feel that this amount of time has not been sufficient to gauge whether or not Kevin can work with Tyreke. "He's only been back a few weeks." "Six/Ten/Twelve games are not enough to judge how he fits in with this young crew."

It can always go lower. One more injury should do it, but Garcia's minutes will have a bigger negative impact than Kevin's ability to mesh.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I have to disagree with you here. There are still many who feel that this amount of time has not been sufficient to gauge whether or not Kevin can work with Tyreke. "He's only been back a few weeks." "Six/Ten/Twelve games are not enough to judge how he fits in with this young crew."

I have to agree, of course I am with those who thought he should have been traded before he sunk this far but I don't think we're anywhere near rock bottom. Fact is teams are still calling to ask about him. Another injury, kiss that goodbye. He'll be more difficult to move than Kenny or Noc.

 

[Luv4Kings]

I wonder where this idea that Kevin can shoot ever came from? I've watched evey game this year and have never seen any shooting from Kevin. Can you tell me where this comes from?

Two can play at the same asinine game. Then you have to run off and waste your time collecting stats and putting together some sort of detailed post to prove something not only obvious on its face, but heavily canvassed again and again on this very board. And sorry, do not have time to indulge in such silliness.

I use silly BTW, because stupid is harsher, and silly is appropriately dismissive without me having to actually go and tear each new poster a new orifice every time. Saves on the fussing and fighting.

Nice avoidance of a question you obviously have no answer for. Just bully me into acceptance or silence, right? I'm just stupid. That's great!

First, does Kevin shoot the ball? Is there some big disagreement on this point? Of course not.

As for team chemistry. Who here ever visits the locker room? Who hangs out with the guys? Is "chemistry" something people see or is it an impression from feelings?

One is easily a fact. Someone picks up a ball and it either goes in the basket or it doesn't.

The other is a feeling, an assumption, a wild-a$$ guess.

The reason I asked the question is, I've never observed a chemistry problem this year, nor a problem ever caused by Kevin. I've not see it written up by anyone who has observed it. No sports writer I've read has commented on Kevin being a problem. All I've read from sports writers is that team chemistry is great. But sports writers hardly have much more information on this subject than the average fan.

The only people who could possibly know, and I mean REALLY know about the chemistry of this team are the people on this team and the coaches who see them every day.

And I'm asking, if you are so convinced Kevin is a cancer, who on the team or which coach actually said he was?

Is that so difficult?

You say it's been "heavily canvassed again and again on this very board." Just what the heck does that even mean? You mean you all took a poll? You decided among yourselves? You "canvassed" the posters and the majority agree with you? Seriously??

And you call ME silly???

You must be right simply because you're so convinced you are?

You crack me up.

 

[Luv4Kings]

You know, what is getting rather old around here is you. If you have something substantive to post you had best around to doing it, because if all you are going to do is run around from thread to thread whining about me you are going to find out two things 1) that I ain't going anywhere; and b) that I am rapidly going to run out of use for you.

You don't like something I post, attack it on its merits, if you can. Many successful posters aorund here regularly disagree with me. They are of course wrong, but they make quality posts. If you can't...best to leave it alone.

I'm happy I'm not the only stupid or silly poster around here!

So Brick, I disagreed with something you posted earlier on this thread. I didn't "attack" your post, I simply pointed out a little math error and disagreed "on it's merits".

You, however, chose to ignore my comments. My posts were #12 and #13.

 

[Luv4Kings]

is it possible to see what the fan message boards looked like in the webber days?

Substitute Webber for Martin and you've pretty much got it.

Webber may have been the best player we've ever had on this team in the Sacramento era. Yet he wasn't good enough for some Kings fans. He didn't score every time he shot the ball. He didn't grab every possible rebound. He didn't make every single free throw. He was injury prone! He was a bum!

Kevin Martin is a nice player, but not nearly the calibre of Webber. Yet for some reason, people think he should score every time he shoots the ball. He should grab every possible rebound. He should make every single free throw (and he almost does!). He's injury prone! He's a bum!

I think some fans just have to blame someone when we don't win. It's the nature of sports. In football, it's almost always the quarterback who is ripped to shreds by fans. In basketball, it's some particular veteran and usually it's a player that a lot of other fans really like.

A lot of fans liked Webber. There was some kind of jealous reaction in other fans that caused them to rip into him simple to annoy fans who stood up for him.

I'm seeing that a lot of people like Martin. I'm sensing the same kind of reaction against him.

Makes no real sense, but it's how some fans need to behave.

 

[Luv4Kings]

Impossible.




Al Gore didn't invent the internet until the 90's

LOL!!!

Good point. I live in a different world than Algore.

 

[Bricklayer]

I'm happy I'm not the only stupid or silly poster around here!

So Brick, I disagreed with something you posted earlier on this thread. I didn't "attack" your post, I simply pointed out a little math error and disagreed "on it's merits".

You, however, chose to ignore my comments. My posts were #12 and #13.

This may come as a staggering blow to your sense of significance, but I really don't have time to respond to every insignifcant post made by every wide eyed mooncalf who comes wandering on through, misses the point of the post they are responding to, and goes ahead and posts some tangental plank piece from their normal schtick.

 

[Luv4Kings]

This may come as a staggering blow to your sense of significance, but I really don't have time to respond to every insignifcant post made by every wide eyed mooncalf who comes wandering on through, misses the point of the post they are responding to, and goes ahead and posts some tangental plank piece from their normal schtick.

Oh, I'm crushed.

But you did it again. You resorted to the old ad hominem attack. Way to go! Brilliant retort!

You still crack me up. So predictable.

This is fun.

 

[Bricklayer]

Nice avoidance of a question you obviously have no answer for. Just bully me into acceptance or silence, right? I'm just stupid. That's great!

First, does Kevin shoot the ball? Is there some big disagreement on this point? Of course not.

As for team chemistry. Who here ever visits the locker room? Who hangs out with the guys? Is "chemistry" something people see or is it an impression from feelings?

One is easily a fact. Someone picks up a ball and it either goes in the basket or it doesn't.

The other is a feeling, an assumption, a wild-a$$ guess.

The reason I asked the question is, I've never observed a chemistry problem this year, nor a problem ever caused by Kevin. I've not see it written up by anyone who has observed it. No sports writer I've read has commented on Kevin being a problem. All I've read from sports writers is that team chemistry is great. But sports writers hardly have much more information on this subject than the average fan.

The only people who could possibly know, and I mean REALLY know about the chemistry of this team are the people on this team and the coaches who see them every day.

And I'm asking, if you are so convinced Kevin is a cancer, who on the team or which coach actually said he was?

Is that so difficult?

You say it's been "heavily canvassed again and again on this very board." Just what the heck does that even mean? You mean you all took a poll? You decided among yourselves? You "canvassed" the posters and the majority agree with you? Seriously??

And you call ME silly???

You must be right simply because you're so convinced you are?

You crack me up.

My lord, if you were to get any more shrill you would blow out the windows.

Nobody owes you jack squat buddy. You want to know what has been said before on the topic (that is what canvassed means BTW) go use the handy search function and look it up yourself. But you don't of course. You want to screech like a banshee by way of argument, and play silly amateurish rhetorical games where you get to redefine anything you don't like and establish impossible litmus tests. I have no time for such buffoonery.

 

[TheFifthMookie]

This may come as a staggering blow to your sense of significance, but I really don't have time to respond to every insignifcant post made by every wide eyed mooncalf who comes wandering on through, misses the point of the post they are responding to, and goes ahead and posts some tangental plank piece from their normal schtick.

Have you been hanging out with Grant Napear again?

Cuz it sure sounds like it.

 

[Bricklayer]

Oh, I'm crushed.

But you did it again. You resorted to the old ad hominem attack. Way to go! Brilliant retort!

You still crack me up. So predictable.

This is fun.

Its going to get a lot less fun if you continue to hijack threads with vast waves of shrill posts swamping all opposition.

 

[Luv4Kings]

My lord, if you were to get any more shrill you would blow out the windows.

Nobody owes you jack squat buddy. You want to know what has been said before on the topic (that is what canvassed means BTW) go use the handy search function and look it up yourself. But you don't of course. You want to screech like a banshee by way of argument, and play silly amateurish rhetorical games where you get to redefine anything you don't like and establish impossible litmus tests. I have no time for such buffoonery.

Shrill?

That's wonderful! You're a master at this. I ask you a question you simply can't answer because you have no evidence to support your claim, and look at your response!

This is so funny! I love it.

So I will now assume that there is no problem with team chemistry since nobody can show me any evidence of such. Other than I'm supposed to read posters comments as proof? You're kidding, right? That's hilarious!

 

[Luv4Kings]

Its going to get a lot less fun if you continue to hijack threads with vast waves of shrill posts swamping all opposition.

Wait, I think you just described your posts! You're the one with shrill posts swamping all opposition. Amazing how you think you see something in others that's really how you're acting yourself. I've never call you a name nor asked an off-topic question.

I'm calmly sitting here, only mildly astonished at your extreme reactions to such simple questions. It's kind of amazing, really.

 

[Luv4Kings]

Have you been hanging out with Grant Napear again?

Cuz it sure sounds like it.

I think he'd like to be able to hang up on me.