Harry Giles and other thoughts

The professional athlete more or less has one job - stay ready to play. This includes training and conditioning with the goal of optimizating one’s performance. By published accounts, Giles reported “out of shape” to pre-season camp. At the very least, this suggests a lack of professionalism and dedication which should give pause to any organization considering an investment in a player. Bottom line: Despite his potential, the Kings seem to have lost faith in Harry and his development, choosing instead to tie its fortunes to two other up and coming players - Fox and Bagley - who were more certain commodities. I don’t think it would have been monetarily feasible to keep all three young players anyway, so I understand the calculation. If you are looking to lay blame for Harry’s estrangement, blame Giles himself - not the Kings.
I have read many times that Giles reportedly didn’t show up to training camp ready to go. And then got injured. But because I am a skeptic by nature, I have tried to find a true source from which that assessment came. But nothing. It seems like it could be true. It also seems like it could have been a misinterpretation of someone in (or close to) the Kings organization noting that they wish Giles had worked out under the Kings direction in the off season instead of doing it on his own. But somehow the word began to spread that Harry was out of shape, partying, and not taking his preparation responsibilities seriously. Sorry, but the more this gets repeated without ever being attributed to a genuine source, the more I smell BS.
 
What do you have? Wait nothing. Becuz it doesn’t exist.
From an article in SB Nation that cited two journalists that cover the Kings and/or NBA:

“NBC Sports’ James Ham went on the Hoop-Ball Sacramento Kings Podcast with Damien Barling earlier (last) year and revealed that Giles came into training camp out of shape...”

“The Athletic’s Sam Amick went on Sports 1140 KHTK this morning and reported that the Kings declined Giles’ 4th year option because they wanted to make him earn it.”

The author of the piece summed it up:

“The Kings did not pick up their 4th year option on Harry Giles’ rookie scale contract, effectively ending the dream that he could be a key contributor to the future of this franchise.”

“...you don’t decline the 4th year option of a young player you believe in.”

Maybe you consider this as “fake news”.
 
I have read many times that Giles reportedly didn’t show up to training camp ready to go. And then got injured. But because I am a skeptic by nature, I have tried to find a true source from which that assessment came. But nothing. It seems like it could be true. It also seems like it could have been a misinterpretation of someone in (or close to) the Kings organization noting that they wish Giles had worked out under the Kings direction in the off season instead of doing it on his own. But somehow the word began to spread that Harry was out of shape, partying, and not taking his preparation responsibilities seriously. Sorry, but the more this gets repeated without ever being attributed to a genuine source, the more I smell BS.
Define genuine source. Only local guys reported on it because only locals care. Reportedly, he did not work out with training staff this summer, and did not follow his prescribed training routine in his own. He subsequently had a knee issue the first day of training camp. Beyond that, I think some nuance is getting lost in translation.

European soccer, and I presume basketball too, has a saying that a player is “not fit” or “unfit”. Now, to an American’s ears that sounds like “out of shape”, but that’s not what it means. It means “not fully prepared physically”. That could be due to illness, returning from injury, whatever, but the gist is the player is not able to go the full 90. Harry reported to camp “unfit”.
 
From an article in SB Nation that cited two journalists that cover the Kings and/or NBA:

“NBC Sports’ James Ham went on the Hoop-Ball Sacramento Kings Podcast with Damien Barling earlier (last) year and revealed that Giles came into training camp out of shape...”

“The Athletic’s Sam Amick went on Sports 1140 KHTK this morning and reported that the Kings declined Giles’ 4th year option because they wanted to make him earn it.”

The author of the piece summed it up:

“The Kings did not pick up their 4th year option on Harry Giles’ rookie scale contract, effectively ending the dream that he could be a key contributor to the future of this franchise.”

“...you don’t decline the 4th year option of a young player you believe in.”

Maybe you consider this as “fake news”.
So basically nothing credible
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
The professional athlete more or less has one job - stay ready to play. This includes training and conditioning with the goal of optimizating one’s performance. By published accounts, Giles reported “out of shape” to pre-season camp. At the very least, this suggests a lack of professionalism and dedication which should give pause to any organization considering an investment in a player. Bottom line: Despite his potential, the Kings seem to have lost faith in Harry and his development, choosing instead to tie its fortunes to two other up and coming players - Fox and Bagley - who were more certain commodities. I don’t think it would have been monetarily feasible to keep all three young players anyway, so I understand the calculation. If you are looking to lay blame for Harry’s estrangement, blame Giles himself - not the Kings.
That statement is floating all over the Internet but you rarely see any links to real articles that actually say Giles was "out of shape" when he reported to camp. I think that's what is bothersome to some fans. It's so easy on social media for a false "fact" to be floated around so quickly that it becomes widely accepted without actual basis.

Did he report out of shape? Who knows? All I can see is that it doesn't seem to fit with the mindset he's currently exhibiting but...the Kings declined his option for some reason. (And with the lack of leaks coming from within, I doubt we'll ever know.)

If the Kings had totally lost faith in Harry, he'd be sitting right next to Dedmon. I personally think there's something else going on.
 
I'm not buying the he came out of shape story even if he did they were calling him the next Chris Webber last year, if they actually believed (I don't but he has talent) that who cares if he's that talented and his energy on the floor is positive you don't bench him for near half the season that's idiotic and Luke should be fired if true.

There's something else to this story, Andre Miller use to come into camp near obese levels and they let him play the weight off in preseason and training camp.

The fact they signed Holmes/Dedmon while already having Bagley/Bjelica and now not extending Giles means they must think he's just not very good. Than again he is a high IQ player (fouls aside) so it makes sense the Kings don't think much of him.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
From an article in SB Nation that cited two journalists that cover the Kings and/or NBA:

“NBC Sports’ James Ham went on the Hoop-Ball Sacramento Kings Podcast with Damien Barling earlier (last) year and revealed that Giles came into training camp out of shape...”

“The Athletic’s Sam Amick went on Sports 1140 KHTK this morning and reported that the Kings declined Giles’ 4th year option because they wanted to make him earn it.”

The author of the piece summed it up:

“The Kings did not pick up their 4th year option on Harry Giles’ rookie scale contract, effectively ending the dream that he could be a key contributor to the future of this franchise.”

“...you don’t decline the 4th year option of a young player you believe in.”

Maybe you consider this as “fake news”.
I wouldn't necessarily take anything Ham says as gospel. Amick's piece leaves a lot of wiggle room.

Bottom line, as I said above, we don't know all the details and probably never will. What we (I) do know, however, is that if Giles does have worth, he's going to find a home. And, as others have hinted at, there's nothing saying it can't be here. Declining to pick up an option doesnt mean a team loses the right to negotiate with that player.
 

SLAB

Hall of Famer
The “out of shape” story seems like something that was floated as a maybe/hypothetical and some people want it to grow legs to make everything make sense.

Because nothing about the Giles situation makes any sense. And there HAS to be a reason it’s gone down like it has... So it’s easy to jump to a conclusion to make everything feel slightly better.
 
So basically nothing credible
You falsely claimed I had “nothing” because a basis yet it turns out that you have less than nothing.
So basically nothing credible
You erroneously claimed that I had “nothing” because substantiation “doesn’t exist”, yet it actually turns out that YOU have far less than nothing. Unless you have credible sources of your own that you would like to belatedly share with us to refute the reporting, you will be dismissed as nothing but a baseless contrarian.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
You falsely claimed I had “nothing” because a basis yet it turns out that you have less than nothing.

You erroneously claimed that I had “nothing” because substantiation “doesn’t exist”, yet it actually turns out that YOU have far less than nothing. Unless you have credible sources of your own that you would like to belatedly share with us to refute the reporting, you will be dismissed as nothing but a baseless contrarian.
OMG. Give it a freaking rest. Nobody else on the board is interested in your pissing contest with Booster. If you guys want to continue, take it to private messages. Thanks.
 
Man, I haven't posted on this site in years...I'm watching my first Kings game of the year, on NBA TV. These guys are RAVING about Giles, and how he's got great intangibles, passing abilities, etc. "Look at Harry Giles, go in there and grab that rebound." \

It simply makes NO sense at all not to lock this guy up, for at least $4m for one year. You have to look at is as locking up an asset at a very reasonable cost. If this guy starts balling, all any team signing needs to do is come with a second year, or a couple hundred thousand dollars more, and he's gone!

It's just ridiculous, IMO
 

CruzDude

Senior Member sharing a brew with bajaden
Harry has become an example of “darned-if-you-do-darned-if-you-don't”. Really good ball handler, good shooter out to mid-range, a hustler and runs the court. But..... has yet to learn how to properly set a screen, or how to defend without always using his hands (therefore a big foul generator). He had no real college experience and lost up to 2 years overcoming his knee problems, But they kept for his first 3 years for some reason. So this his make or break year.

Now with Holmes possibly on bench with his sore shoulder (no facts here just my guessing) his time may be at hand with more minutes with starters. Will be sitting behind Kings bench for Suns game so may get better look at situation.
 
So this his make or break year.

Now with Holmes possibly on bench with his sore shoulder (no facts here just my guessing) his time may be at hand with more minutes with starters. Will be sitting behind Kings bench for Suns game so may get better look at situation.
Yeah and if he does really well he's essentially auditioning for other teams who can all pay him more. Basically the only way he stays here is if he plays poorly and nobody else wants him.
 
Yeah and if he does really well he's essentially auditioning for other teams who can all pay him more. Basically the only way he stays here is if he plays poorly and nobody else wants him.
I know that these are the rules, but I simply don't get why we can't go over and beyond the QO to resign them. We should be able to match, or, at least offer what anyone else can on the open market. I know that I don't make the rules, but they simply don't make sense, IMO...
 
I know that these are the rules, but I simply don't get why we can't go over and beyond the QO to resign them. We should be able to match, or, at least offer what anyone else can on the open market. I know that I don't make the rules, but they simply don't make sense, IMO...
You can thank Vlade and the front office for that, because literally nothing about not extending the QO to Giles makes an iota of sense. I don't care if he "came in out of shape", (which sounds a whole lot like the Kings PR machine to me), or that his knees are worrying. We already knew that. It's about risk vs reward and this decision was just dumb on so many levels.
 

Capt. Factorial

This Is Why We Can't Have Nice Things
Staff member
I know that these are the rules, but I simply don't get why we can't go over and beyond the QO to resign them. We should be able to match, or, at least offer what anyone else can on the open market. I know that I don't make the rules, but they simply don't make sense, IMO...
What happened is that we turned down the team's fourth-year option on Giles' rookie deal. Because the fourth-year option on a rookie deal is "cheap" for players who become a star by their fourth year, there has been concern in the past that teams would circumvent the CBA by declining the fourth-year option in a nod-nod-wink-wink fashion and then signing the player to a higher salary more in line with their production. So, the rule was established that if a team declines a rookie contract option, then that team can't subsequently sign the player during the year that option would have applied for any value above the value of the option that was declined. Other teams don't have this restriction.
 
Harry has become an example of “darned-if-you-do-darned-if-you-don't”. Really good ball handler, good shooter out to mid-range, a hustler and runs the court. But..... has yet to learn how to properly set a screen, or how to defend without always using his hands (therefore a big foul generator). He had no real college experience and lost up to 2 years overcoming his knee problems, But they kept for his first 3 years for some reason. So this his make or break year.

Now with Holmes possibly on bench with his sore shoulder (no facts here just my guessing) his time may be at hand with more minutes with starters. Will be sitting behind Kings bench for Suns game so may get better look at situation.
Which is exactly why picking up his option was a no-brainer. If he can't stay healthy, he's gone or waved. If he can, he's a super cheap asset. Kings gave up a beneficial position for one with less leverage and flexibility.

There literally is no defensible position on this, other than "Giles is not in our plans". But even then, you retain him for the QO and trade him for a 2nd rounder or something. There's still no defending this decision.
 
The 76ers declined and kept Korkmaz, and GSW with Looney. While I think Giles is worth the gamble, the 4th year option is a 50% raise for a player who was frankly not worth his contract through 3 years. He's a minimum salary player with some upside and significant injury history. The risk of losing him to a higher bidder is really low.
 
The 76ers declined and kept Korkmaz, and GSW with Looney. While I think Giles is worth the gamble, the 4th year option is a 50% raise for a player who was frankly not worth his contract through 3 years. He's a minimum salary player with some upside and significant injury history. The risk of losing him to a higher bidder is really low.
No but jerking him around and pissing him off to the point where he signs with another team for equal or less money is a real possibility.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
No but jerking him around and pissing him off to the point where he signs with another team for equal or less money is a real possibility.
We do not know what Giles was told. We do know that he's getting time on the court and a lot of praise. At this point, it's virtually impossible to know what will happen in the future.
 

Capt. Factorial

This Is Why We Can't Have Nice Things
Staff member
The 76ers declined and kept Korkmaz, and GSW with Looney. While I think Giles is worth the gamble, the 4th year option is a 50% raise for a player who was frankly not worth his contract through 3 years. He's a minimum salary player with some upside and significant injury history. The risk of losing him to a higher bidder is really low.
Korkmaz and Looney were never guys that were so talented to be considered the potential #1 overall pick. if Giles loses his spot in the rotation, gets hurt again, or plays like he did in the later portions of last night's game, then Korkmaz/Looney enter the discussion and we may not be too worried about whether we hold on to him or not.

On the other hand, if Giles puts up 15+ minutes per game, his knees hold up, and he plays like he did in his first stint last night, I don't see any way the league treats him as a minimum salary player with some upside - he's a potential core piece answering injury questions in the positive. And you can have him as an unrestricted FA with the bidding starting around $5M? Gotta think teams will pounce on that. Sure would be hard to see the bidding staying in the $4M range we can offer by rule.
 

CruzDude

Senior Member sharing a brew with bajaden
Harry has become an example of “darned-if-you-do-darned-if-you-don't”. Really good ball handler, good shooter out to mid-range, a hustler and runs the court. But..... has yet to learn how to properly set a screen, or how to defend without always using his hands (therefore a big foul generator). He had no real college experience and lost up to 2 years overcoming his knee problems, But they kept for his first 3 years for some reason. So this his make or break year.

Now with Holmes possibly on bench with his sore shoulder (no facts here just my guessing) his time may be at hand with more minutes with starters. Will be sitting behind Kings bench for Suns game so may get better look at situation.
Harry started at Phoenix and in 16 total minutes was 8 and 8 but could not handle the monster 7-1 Ayton. To his credit only one TO and 2 fouls both defending. Dedmon gets 31+ min, does better on Ayton and racks up 16 and 10 and was key in this game.

Bottom line, Harry is learning but may always be the smallest “bjg” on floor. Can he work aroundthat?
 
I thought Harry played a very respectable first half against the Suns. Less so in the second half, but not terrible.
Dedman had a good game, but some of you are giving him too much praise. Or maybe you’re attempting to raise his trade value?
Yes, Harry is undersized for a center and hasn’t developed stretch-4 skills yet. But he’ll get stronger and become more skilled. I’ll be disappointed if we lose him next year, but I’ll be hoping that - somehow - that doesn’t happen.
 
The best case scenario for the Kings is that Giles continues to play well, but load management and foul trouble keeps him under 15 minutes per game.

If his stat lines stays within 14 min/game and about 6 ppg 4 reb 1.5 asst per game, the Kings have a good chance to retain Harry this summer.

Harry would show enough in limited minutes, but not enough where a team might throw big money his way, considering his knee injury history. If the Kings can lock him up to a 2 or 3 year contract this summer, starting at the 4 mil/yr, it would be the best case scenario for the Kings.