Griffin and Cousins

twslam07

twslam07

All-Star
http://www.nba.com/mvp-ladder/
http://www.latimes.com/sports/sport...in-mvp-20140328,0,6569691.story#axzz2xHtDUGF9
http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/page/dime-140310/clips-get-top-mark-mvp

Is anyone else absolutely bothered by all these stories coming up that Griffin would be the MVP if it weren't for Durant and Lebron? I don't know why, but it bothers me tremendously. Oh wait! I know why! Because we have a better player on our very own team!

Per 36
Player A: 53% FG, 27% 3PT, 70% FT, 24.1 PPG, 9.7 RPG, 3.7 APG, 1.1 SPG, 0.6 BPG, 2.8 TOPG, 3.3 FPG
Player B: 49% FG, 00% 3PT, 73% FT, 24.9 PPG, 13.1 RPG, 3.3 APG, 1.7 SPG, 1.5 BPG, 3.9 TOPG, 4.3 FPG

Can you definitively say one of these players deserves to be third on NBA.com's MVP Ladder and the other doesn't even deserve to be in the top 10? This is an individual award, yet team record and (for Cousins in particular) reputation are always very influential variables. SMH
 
yes, and PER
Cousins 26.21
Griffin 23.84


But of course with MVP stuff, that award is entirely given out according to winners. No matter how good you are, being on a 50 win team is about the bare minimum to be in the running. even if you're Kobe Bryant scoring 35 a night you still won't get it unless the team is winning. So its kind of a "most valuable player on a great team" award.
 
What a ridiculous post.... One player is on a winning championship contending team while the other is on......."a team well below .500" There is a reason why players such as Cousins isn't in the MVP conversation. TEAM DON"T WIN!!! If winning had nothing to do with it then Carmelo Anthony will be well ahead of big Cuz... I swear this forum is filled with nothing but one dimensional individuals. Cuz is a great player but by no means is he a league MVP.... Once the Kings make consecutive trips deep into the playoffs we can start this conversation.
 
D-Wade said:
What a ridiculous post.... One player is on a winning championship contending team while the other is on......."a team well below .500" There is a reason why players such as Cousins isn't in the MVP conversation. TEAM DON"T WIN!!! If winning had nothing to do with it then Carmelo Anthony will be well ahead of big Cuz... I swear this forum is filled with nothing but one dimensional individuals. Cuz is a great player but by no means is he a league MVP.... Once the Kings make consecutive trips deep into the playoffs we can start this conversation.
Click to expand...

One player is ON a yadda yadda.

Lucky for him.

For your umbrage to have any bite you have to agree to the following:

Proposition 1: A team with Demarcus Cousins, Chris Paul, Jamaal Crawford, DeAndre Jordan, JJ Reddick, Darren Collison, Glen Davis, Matt Barnes, and Jared Dudley would not be a contender.

Proposition 2: A team with Blake Griffith, Rudy Gay, Isaiah Thomas, Derrick Williams, Jason Thompson, Reggie Evans, Ben McLemore, Ray Mccalum, Travis Outlaw, Quincy Acy and Aaron Gray would be a winner.

if you actually believe those two statements, then huff and puff away. Otherwise its just an indication of how much a supposedly individual award like this has been hijacked by team concerns. If Cousins was traded for Griffin tomorrow, he would all of a sudden be celebrated, feted, and given awards, while Blake would suddenly become the loser who couldn't lead his team anywhere. Whatta system.
 
Last edited:
D-Wade said:
What a ridiculous post.... One player is on a winning championship contending team while the other is on......."a team well below .500" There is a reason why players such as Cousins isn't in the MVP conversation. TEAM DON"T WIN!!! If winning had nothing to do with it then Carmelo Anthony will be well ahead of big Cuz... I swear this forum is filled with nothing but one dimensional individuals. Cuz is a great player but by no means is he a league MVP.... Once the Kings make consecutive trips deep into the playoffs we can start this conversation.
Click to expand...

I don't think the argument was that Cousins should be in the running f0r MVP, but that Griffin shouldn't. The MVP race is between Durant and Lebron. Period! Maybe someday Cousins will be in the conversation.
 
Bricklayer said:
One player is ON a yadda yadda.

Lucky for him.

For your umbrage to have any bite you have to agree to the following:

Proposition 1: A team with Demarcus Cousins, Chris Paul, Jamaal Crawford, DeAndre Jordan, JJ Reddick, Darren Collison, Glen Davis, Matt Barnes, and Jared Dudley would not be a contender.

Proposition 2: A team with Blake Griffith, Rudy Gay, Isaiah Thomas, Derrick Williams, Jason Thompson, Reggie Evans, Ben McLemore, Ray Mccalum, Travis Outlaw, Quincy Acy and Aaron Gray would be a winner.

if you actually believe those two statements, then huff and puff away. Otherwise its just an indication of how much a supposedly individual award like this has been hijacked by team concerns. If Cousins was traded for Griffin tomorrow, he would all of a sudden be celebrated, feted, and given awards, while Blake would suddenly become the loser who couldn't lead his team anywhere. Whatta system.
Click to expand...

While I get what you're saying I think a lot of the "talk" is precisely because Griffin "carried" the team when Paul was out.
 
Even without Chris Paul the Clippers were beasting with Blake as the #1 guy and as much as I hate Blake that's what got him into the conversation into the MVP consideration which is fair enough. I still don't beleive in him or DJ come playoffs but, but the guy has been outstanding in particular without the best PG in the game leading his team to a very impressive record.
 
andremiller07 said:
Even without Chris Paul the Clippers were beasting with Blake as the #1 guy and as much as I hate Blake that's what got him into the conversation into the MVP consideration which is fair enough. I still don't beleive in him or DJ come playoffs but, but the guy has been outstanding in particular without the best PG in the game leading his team to a very impressive record.
Click to expand...
Except that, even without Paul, the Clippers still had all those other guys.
 
You have to win to get the accolades. Period. Otherwise, you get branded like Kevin Love of being an "empty stats" guy.

Despite basketball being utterly dependent on a million different factors to be successful, we fans love to place everything on one guy's shoulders.
 
Mr. S£im Citrus said:
Except that, even without Paul, the Clippers still had all those other guys.
Click to expand...

IT = Jamal Crawford? After Blake and Paul they don't have anyone near Gay's talent level. Reddick was out as well for quite a while. On paper we really aren't that far behind them talent-wise once you take Chris Paul out of the equation. What they do have is balance, veteran leadership and a proven coach. I guess that doesn't necessarily contradict the point you're making ... but it also doesn't take away anything from Blake being their #1 guy and the team having success.
 
You can win a lot of games when you play defense like the Clippers do, even without Chris Paul.

But, really, I don't think that it takes anything away from Blake Griffin to suggest that, if you swapped him out with DeMarcus Cousins, that the Clippers could have been just as successful. Nor does it take anything away from Griffin to suggest that he couldn't have done anything with this Kings squad that Cousins hasn't done.
 
Mr. S£im Citrus said:
Except that, even without Paul, the Clippers still had all those other guys.
Click to expand...
Losing the best PG in the game is a massive blow for any team the only other team that could overcome something like that has been the Spurs/Bulls, even the Grizzlies without Gasol could not stay afloat, Griffin has been by a wide margin better than Cousins this year, stats only tell you so much end of the day basketball is about winning not stats and Blake Griffin as the main guy when Paul was out was simply magnificant and lead his team to a great record.
 
He hasn't been better by a "wide margin" in any tangible sense, and it's a total chicken-and-egg argument. Are the Clippers good because Griffin is good, or is Griffin good because the Clippers are good? Depends on what you believe in. I believe that, once you have a system in place, once you develop a "culture" of winning, it becomes much easier to convince most other people that you're this great winner, when winning is as much a byproduct of the system as anything else.

The Clippers are good because of Chris Paul and Doc Rivers. And, when Paul went down, they still had Doc Rivers.
 
D-Wade said:
What a ridiculous post.... One player is on a winning championship contending team while the other is on......."a team well below .500" There is a reason why players such as Cousins isn't in the MVP conversation. TEAM DON"T WIN!!! If winning had nothing to do with it then Carmelo Anthony will be well ahead of big Cuz... I swear this forum is filled with nothing but one dimensional individuals. Cuz is a great player but by no means is he a league MVP.... Once the Kings make consecutive trips deep into the playoffs we can start this conversation.
Click to expand...

When have the Clippers made consecutive trips deep in the play-offs?
 
Chubbs said:
Never. Blake has won one playoff series. Then got swept in round 2. And they lost in the first round last year.
Click to expand...

Blake has improved his play a lot this year. Give credit where it's due. I don't consider him an MVP candidate but some of you act like the guy is a scrub. He's been putting up Cousins' numbers on a winning team - that has to count for something.
 
mac said:
Blake has improved his play a lot this year. Give credit where it's due. I don't consider him an MVP candidate but some of you act like the guy is a scrub. He's been putting up Cousins' numbers on a winning team - that has to count for something.
Click to expand...

Indeed. While the MVP race has been Bron and Durant the whole year, there's no doubt Blake has been a top 10 player the whole year. Maybe even top 5. He's one of the best big-man passers, he scores with great efficiency, he's improved his FT shooting to where it's not a hindrance anymore, and he's playing much better on the defensive end.

Players on winning teams getting more recognition is a reality of sports. Cuz won't get his due until we start winning.
 
mac said:
Blake has improved his play a lot this year. Give credit where it's due. I don't consider him an MVP candidate but some of you act like the guy is a scrub. He's been putting up Cousins' numbers on a winning team - that has to count for something.
Click to expand...
I didn't say anything about him being a scrub, just pointing out he hasn't made consecutive deep trips in the playoffs, which was D-Wade's requirement for MVP consideration. By his own requirement, griffin shouldn't be in the discussion, unless a career playoff record of 6-11 is good enough.

Anyway, people missed the point of the OP.
 
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