Hey, we won! We gotta get a grades thread for that! Post 'em if you got 'em!
[Grades] Grades vs. Lakers (or We Won BUT...)
- Thread starter Capt. Factorial
- Start date
jcassio
Starter
Now that was fun!
Fox - right now he's not impressing (C-). Hopefully he'll have a breakout game soon. Didn't lose the match-up with Ball, but didn't win either.
Mason - stellar game for Frank (B+).
Bogdanovic - stellar game for Bogie (B+).
Randolph - as usual, strong offense and weak defense (B).
Labissiere - he hit the boards tonight, which is a start (C+). Who was the 12th man on the Kings that used to get Chris Webber in a zone? Skal needs one of those.
Cauley-Stein - stellar game for Willie (A-). That's actually 3 out of 4 games now that he's played really well.
Hill - did he even play tonight? Yes, I know he played. That was a rhetorical question.
Fox - right now he's not impressing (C-). Hopefully he'll have a breakout game soon. Didn't lose the match-up with Ball, but didn't win either.
Mason - stellar game for Frank (B+).
Bogdanovic - stellar game for Bogie (B+).
Randolph - as usual, strong offense and weak defense (B).
Labissiere - he hit the boards tonight, which is a start (C+). Who was the 12th man on the Kings that used to get Chris Webber in a zone? Skal needs one of those.
Cauley-Stein - stellar game for Willie (A-). That's actually 3 out of 4 games now that he's played really well.
Hill - did he even play tonight? Yes, I know he played. That was a rhetorical question.
I was at the game last night (my first this season) and loved the outcome.
The Kings didn't do a lot differently but shots were falling which makes all the difference.
Skal is really concerning me now but at least he hit the glass. Willie played great offensively but was weak on the boards. Three of his rebounds came when the game was all but decided. I did love seeing him roll to the hoop aggressively and get lobs from Mason and Bogdanovic.
Hill continues to be awful. I hope there's a trade market for him at the deadline.
With the way he goes after his own shot I'd eventually like to see Z-Bo come off the bench as he did last year in Memphis. The starting five needs better ball movement.
The Kings didn't do a lot differently but shots were falling which makes all the difference.
Skal is really concerning me now but at least he hit the glass. Willie played great offensively but was weak on the boards. Three of his rebounds came when the game was all but decided. I did love seeing him roll to the hoop aggressively and get lobs from Mason and Bogdanovic.
Hill continues to be awful. I hope there's a trade market for him at the deadline.
With the way he goes after his own shot I'd eventually like to see Z-Bo come off the bench as he did last year in Memphis. The starting five needs better ball movement.
Last edited:
KingsFanGER
Starter
Great Game by Bogie and Willie.
Great call by Joerger to finally play Willie in space with 4 shooters. The Game is just so much easier, when the floor is spaced properly and both Willie and Bogie looked way more confident, when allowed to run pick&rolls. Easy baskets got Willie going and he even was confident enough to put the Ball on the floor.
Got to find a replacement for Vince in this lineup, but I think that playstyle is the Kings Future.
Great call by Joerger to finally play Willie in space with 4 shooters. The Game is just so much easier, when the floor is spaced properly and both Willie and Bogie looked way more confident, when allowed to run pick&rolls. Easy baskets got Willie going and he even was confident enough to put the Ball on the floor.
Got to find a replacement for Vince in this lineup, but I think that playstyle is the Kings Future.
kingjatt
Starter
I really wish some of the old timers were still around to really break down Joergers offense. Its alarming how bad it is. Zero spacing for Fox to drive, most jumpers heavily contested because the floor is crammed with bigs. A terrible enviroment for young guards/wings to develop.
It seems that in an era where the rules and the league is more geared towards guards and getting them open looks Joergers system is all about bigs. We almost never go small, play fast, set guys up with rythm jumpers. Its always about the bigs getting theres on offense. I really think this is a bit of Vlades influence in trying to create that C-Webb/Vlade type offense again but those days are over in the NBA.
Its always bigs shooting or setting up the offense. A real awkward and hard to watch system in 2017. Espcially now that we have no Boogie and plug in a poor mans Boogie in ZBO in his place.
The bigs set soft and lazy picks only to secure a shot for themselves and then put us at a disadvantage defensively.
We just spent our 5th pick on a guard and guard play is completely secondary on this team. The bigs are not running around doing the dirty work setting up the guards if they dont get the ball they simplely stop moving which KILLS spacing.
We won the game last night but some of these signs are alarming. If your bigs are taking most of your shots and your playing a 1997 offense in 2017 your team is not going to win in this day and age.
Joerger needs to shelve this offense and go more modern with dribble drives threes and spacing or be fired. This offense needs to be centered around Fox/Buddy/Bogie etc. not freakin 37 year old ZBO.
So Fox plays 23 minutes yesterday and Lonzo plays 37. The Lakers have no pick and a way more incentive to win yet they still go thru the growing pains and play Lonzo 35+ yet we have our pick and only run our young guy 23 minutes?! Terrible rudderless franchise.
As Doris Burke eluded to on the broadcast this is not about "earning your minutes" anymore ZBO and G Hill straight up said NO to Jorger when he approached them to reduce their minutes. So to avoid problems Joerger gave in? TERIBLE.
It seems that in an era where the rules and the league is more geared towards guards and getting them open looks Joergers system is all about bigs. We almost never go small, play fast, set guys up with rythm jumpers. Its always about the bigs getting theres on offense. I really think this is a bit of Vlades influence in trying to create that C-Webb/Vlade type offense again but those days are over in the NBA.
Its always bigs shooting or setting up the offense. A real awkward and hard to watch system in 2017. Espcially now that we have no Boogie and plug in a poor mans Boogie in ZBO in his place.
The bigs set soft and lazy picks only to secure a shot for themselves and then put us at a disadvantage defensively.
We just spent our 5th pick on a guard and guard play is completely secondary on this team. The bigs are not running around doing the dirty work setting up the guards if they dont get the ball they simplely stop moving which KILLS spacing.
We won the game last night but some of these signs are alarming. If your bigs are taking most of your shots and your playing a 1997 offense in 2017 your team is not going to win in this day and age.
Joerger needs to shelve this offense and go more modern with dribble drives threes and spacing or be fired. This offense needs to be centered around Fox/Buddy/Bogie etc. not freakin 37 year old ZBO.
So Fox plays 23 minutes yesterday and Lonzo plays 37. The Lakers have no pick and a way more incentive to win yet they still go thru the growing pains and play Lonzo 35+ yet we have our pick and only run our young guy 23 minutes?! Terrible rudderless franchise.
As Doris Burke eluded to on the broadcast this is not about "earning your minutes" anymore ZBO and G Hill straight up said NO to Jorger when he approached them to reduce their minutes. So to avoid problems Joerger gave in? TERIBLE.
sactowndog
All-Star
Do you know this for a fact?
BeerNerd916
Bench
Yeah, no kidding
whozit
Starter
She said that but without the emphasis stated in that post. She stated that it didn't go well or didn't go over well, not that they flat out said no.
She also said that Willie had stated that he liked coming off the bench
sactowndog
All-Star
Okay so you stretched it a bit. I think our best team is: Willie, Bogdan, Frank, Buddie and Jackson with Bogdan running the pick and roll with Willie over and over until somebody stops it. The kid sees the floor so well he will find the open shooter every time.
fansinceday1
Starter
And anyone who questions the all mighty joegers choice of offense or questions him at all is a moron. I hear it on grants show everyday, grant freaking out if anyone dares to call up with a problem with anything joegers doing.
Sometimes it feels like the kings will never get it right. Forever doomed to doing everything back a$$wards.........
sactowndog
All-Star
That should be Justin Jackson who should be getting more than a couple minutes. 30 min for ZBo is too many if the plan is a rebuild.
fansinceday1
Starter
Even Laker fans at lakersground were wondering if JJ was hurt. How could he be getting barely any playing time?
I think as long as Zbo's here our youngster who should be playing and growing will not play the minutes required to develop.
whozit
Starter
Exactly how did I stretch it? I tried to paraphrase what she said. I didn't remember the exact wording but I'm pretty sure I would have taken notice if it was said that they flat out said no. (But I've been wrong before).
I did take notice when it was said Coach was asked about Randolph (half time?) and he stated that he would have to get him in for the end. The way he was quoted gave me pause. And not in a good way. But that could simply be the way it was reiterated.
kingjatt
Starter
Bottomline is Randolph/Hill/Temple STILL inexplicably play more, take more shots than a team in our situation should be allowing them to take. So the fact still remains.
I am glad that Joerger realized that and approached them but if he backed down and lets them play over the young guys just to avoid backlash from the vets then this situation is a dumpster fire.
Vladizzle
Bench
It's not Vlade, it's the same offense Dave has always run.
kingjatt
Starter
I kind of feel like Vlade/Joerger had delusions of making a playoff run by simpling thinking a combo of Hill/ZBO/VC could be plugged into Collison/Boogie roles and getting a push from the young guns. The way we play and how the minutes are distributed certainly makes this theory plausable.
Lets not forget Vlade put an unrealistic two year timetable on this thing or he and by extention Joerger are putting there kush nba paychecks on the line(Joerger would be gone under a new GM as well). Vlade does not care about being good 4 years from now its all about year 2/3 from the boogie trade which is very unrealistic. We traded a HOF caliber player! Its not about just plugging in numbers!
Again Sacramento seems to be trying to take shortcuts to winning just like the Rondo/Beli/KK free agency frenzy year....unless lebron is born in your city there are no shortcuts!
This is just my opinion and I know it may be a bit harsh but over the last 10 or so years the Kings have used up all of their "benefits of the doubts". Espcially since Vivek took over Usually the unthinkable and what is considered Blasphamy on these forums ends up being true. Sorry for all of the negativity, just tired of being let down by a franchise that cant even see what armchair 2K GMs can see. They are oblivious!
Lets not forget Vlade put an unrealistic two year timetable on this thing or he and by extention Joerger are putting there kush nba paychecks on the line(Joerger would be gone under a new GM as well). Vlade does not care about being good 4 years from now its all about year 2/3 from the boogie trade which is very unrealistic. We traded a HOF caliber player! Its not about just plugging in numbers!
Again Sacramento seems to be trying to take shortcuts to winning just like the Rondo/Beli/KK free agency frenzy year....unless lebron is born in your city there are no shortcuts!
This is just my opinion and I know it may be a bit harsh but over the last 10 or so years the Kings have used up all of their "benefits of the doubts". Espcially since Vivek took over Usually the unthinkable and what is considered Blasphamy on these forums ends up being true. Sorry for all of the negativity, just tired of being let down by a franchise that cant even see what armchair 2K GMs can see. They are oblivious!
kingjatt
Starter
Either way its a joke! But that offense is not being run without at least the blessing of the GM he definately is not obsolved from blame.
macadocious
Starter
Holy Turkey Balls Batman! You guys are collectively losing it. Fox AND Mason played more than Hill last night. Also zbo was our best player in the first half.
If we bench Hill, Zbo, Temple, KK, then they will also have zero trade value. They are all assets right now.
If we bench Hill, Zbo, Temple, KK, then they will also have zero trade value. They are all assets right now.
parker
Bench
She was suggesting that Zbo and Carter were still passionate about playing, not that they were being malcontents.
Vladizzle
Bench
Trust me, I can't stand it. I've expressed that in detail multiple times on here. It's ridiculously dumb especially considering we have most our talent and potential at the guards positions... Yet we run a post heavy offense that caters only to bigs. It alienates all shooters and disallows them to get in any rhythm. I mean we run essentially a 90s offense. Which is great and all.... If we have a dominant big or two. We do not.
parker
Bench
Yeah, the coach clearly likes him some Zbo.
kingjatt
Starter
ZBO at his money/years on contract/age/playing style is worth way less than going for a better pick and letting the young guys run/develop. We would be extremely lucky just to dump him for
salary relief without having to send more than a second round pick attached.
Hill had zero points in 22 mins vs the Lakers to go with a list of donuts for the year. At his contract no one is banging down our door with assets to get him. No joke it might take a pick or young player from us just to get him off the books.
KK MIGHT help a contender but the most we get is a protected 2nd round pick.
So your right if we bench them they might have zero trade value...... that would be better than the negative trade value they have right now.
Vladizzle
Bench
Yeah, he's obsessed. Dave would love 5 Zbos.
It's disgusting really, I don't think Zbo even cares nor should be about being the focal point, yet Dave wants to sabotage our entire season and developmental process just to live in the past with Zbo.
What bothers me the most is how he acts like everyone else is crap but Zbo.. Never acts that excited about anyone, but then Zbo... And it's like he creams himself.
I don't even have a problem with ZBo at all. Hell, I think he's been doing a great job for a guy his age. He's even gone from an abysmal 3pt shooter to an above average one over the course of one offseason. He had a hell of a game last night and took Brook Lopez to the cleaners.
I just don't think ZBo should have the highest usage rate on the team and I don't think he should be the focal point of the offense for a team in need of development. Joerger implied before the season that the Kings were going to run, run, run and that ZBo was going to kind of be the safety net at the end of the shot clock if the young guys couldn't find any open looks. In reality, he's the main cog in the offense and it's not just when the other guys can't find a shot. They have to look for their shot after ZBo can't find his. It should be the other way around.
But you're right, he would have acted completely different if that question was about Willie's play and not Randolph's. Willie played excellent offense AND defense last night and while his and Randolph's offensive numbers might look similar, we all know who really had the biggest impact on the game.
King Baller
All-Star
Every word you wrote is true macadocious. The Kings may have barely scored in the first quarter if not for ZBo.
Everyone likes the outcome of the win over the Lakers. But so many hate on Joergers offense and his rotations
King Baller
All-Star
Similar threads
