[Grades] Grades v. Warriors 12/28/2015

[fansinceday1]

can't build a skyscraper on a crapty foundation. just sayin

This simple post sums up the entire Kings franchise as it's currently put together. Bravo to you sir.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

No structure is architecturally sound with an unstable centerpiece.

You, and others, are conflating two different issues. I never said anything about being able to win with an "unstable" centerpiece (although the '00s Blazers didn't really do that bad), what I said was that your centerpiece doesn't have to be the leader.

At any rate, if you want to follow that line of reasoning, the true foundation of this team is Ranadivé.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

IMO, the main ingredient is a FO that wants to build around cousins skill set. This FO wants to be the Warriors. Cousins cannot run with a warriors type team. HE CANT. It's that simple. He needs to go cause our FO has made their decision. They want to run. Cousins is not a running 3 pt shooting big.

Cousins was a non factor from the start of last nights game. It's why it's maddening to me that this loss is being blamed on him. His ejection didn't change any momentum. The Kings were already sinking with cousins and rondo in the lineup. They weren't gonna keep up with the Warriors with rondo and cousins in the lineup.

someone else sees it. we got the india knock off of the warriors. i'd say chinese but that would be level 10 disrespect to them since they actually do a decent job of copying.

vivek is probably in vlades & karls ear telling them to play w/ more pace. we don't hear about it bc of the lack of flat tire leaks unlike the previous years.

 

[John Galt]

George Karl continues to be THE problem. Except for Casspi and Rondo, the remainder of the roster is underperforming. That's a coach problem.

Maybe the rest of the roster isn't that good?

 

[SacKings384]

Maybe the rest of the roster isn't that good?

Just not playing to their strengths. Cousins on the perimeter? Marco dribble-drives? Collison hanging at the three-point line? Dwindling minutes for Koufos to try and go small? No confidence in Ben? Rondo on the floor with only one shooter?

Don't even get me started on the defensive strategy to leave 3-point shooters open.

 

[pshn80]

I'm curious what you think "taking a stand" means in this context. Cause I know what it would mean for me. Whether we win or lose, I've been equally upset with nearly every game this year because of how the team is playing. By my count there have been only a half dozen or so games this season where we looked like a team. That includes the first three games of the season -- nearly two months ago at this point. Almost everyone on the team has regressed in one way or another. There's the Indian Burial Ground theory. There's quantum decoherence (I did start watching this game in the third quarter right about the time everything went to poopoo...). Or we could employ Occam's Razor and ask if maybe the underperforming team with stagnant predictable offense, ineffective toothless defense, attitude problems aplenty, and a bad habit of blowing leads in the fourth quarter has the same problem that all teams exhibiting those tendencies have always had.

Cousins is often the scowling, flailing man-child at the center of our dysfunction but it would be a mistake, I think, to equate visibility with culpability. Cousins isn't setting the rotation, calling the plays, setting the defensive gameplan, or overseeing the development of McLemore, Moreland, Curry, and Cauley-Stein. Even at his very best there's only so much he can do individually as a player to help us win. Have we already forgotten that a year ago he was getting praised for his professionalism playing with Team USA? What could have happened in the last year which could cause a complete reversal in his individual maturity? (yes that was meant as a rhetorical question -- the answer should be obvious).

Look, I'm not happy with Cousins either. He has a measure of power in this organization by virtue of his talent that he could use to push for positive change. He could lead by example. He could hire his own private tutor to help develop his game. Or he could just drop the surly demeanor and act like playing basketball for a living isn't a chore. But let me ask this question to the board... If you didn't already know the name George Karl and have some idea of his prominent position on the All-Time wins list, would you look at the performances we've seen this season and say the coach is doing a solid job? If this is a first-time coach we're taking about on a minimum 1 year deal, would you have any qualms about kicking him to the curb? I respect his role in NBA history, but the brand of basketball he's got us playing looks eerily similar to another coach that DeMarcus Cousins had serious personality conflicts with. Even with Moses Malone and John Stockton taking the place of Cousins and Rondo we wouldn't be a. 500 team with this junkball system.

You make a good point but can't buy your last sentence. One possibility tha I haven't seen discussed is starting Koufos, giving him major minutes and bringing Cuz off the beach for a stretch, win or lose. We certainly have played well without Cuz, win or lose, on a number of ocassions.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Maybe the rest of the roster isn't that good?

Isn't it funny how all of these guys had had some level of success, until they got here, and all of a sudden, maybe they just aren't any good?

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

You make a good point but can't buy your last sentence. One possibility tha I haven't seen discussed is starting Koufos, giving him major minutes and bringing Cuz off the beach for a stretch, win or lose. We certainly have played well without Cuz, win or lose, on a number of ocassions.

What? No we haven't. Unless, by "on a number of occasions," you mean the occasional 4-6 minute stretch.

 

[pshn80]

What? No we haven't. Unless, by "on a number of occasions," you mean the occasional 4-6 minute stretch.

Yes, that is what I mean and those ocassions where it was considerably longer, even game length. Start Koufos. Unless we can do better by starting Cuz?

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Yes, that is what I mean and those ocassions where it was considerably longer, even game length.

Which game was that?

Start Koufos. Unless we can do better by starting Cuz?

Unless?

 

[steelevt]

Isn't it funny how all of these guys had had some level of success, until they got here, and all of a sudden, maybe they just aren't any good?

Couldn't the same be said about the coach?

 

[FaStRmAn]

This season is like a jet that is quickly heading for the crater (should beat the ambulance there by 30 minutes). At this point everyone is on the trading block. Dont know who or how but some kind of change needs to occur. This team dont work, dont try, dont fit together, dont give effort, dont defend, dont value the ball, dont do nothing right....

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Couldn't the same be said about the coach?

I don't know how? The coach is having a problem because he's trying to pound square pegs into round holes. It's not up to the players to turn themselves into round pegs, it's up to the coach to use a different peg board.

 

[Bricklayer]

This season is like a jet that is quickly heading for the crater (should beat the ambulance there by 30 minutes). At this point everyone is on the trading block. Dont know who or how but some kind of change needs to occur. This team dont work, dont try, dont fit together, dont give effort, dont defend, dont value the ball, dont do nothing right....

It is amazing the conclusions people reach after losing to a 29-1 team on the 29-1 team's home floor, in a game which we led at halftime.

 

[dude12]

It is amazing the conclusions people reach after losing to a 29-1 team on the 29-1 team's home floor, in a game which we led at halftime.

Yes there is....meanwhile, Sac just gave up 20 3pointers.......20! Nice game planning going on there as most were open looks for a team that is built on taking those 3s.

 

[steelevt]

I don't know how? The coach is having a problem because he's trying to pound square pegs into round holes. It's not up to the players to turn themselves into round pegs, it's up to the coach to use a different peg board.

I'm just saying if the argument is players played well before the got here, I think it could be said about the coach. I don't think the square peg analogy fits here because he has coached similar types of players in the past and was successful. Though not exact, I see similarities between gay and melo, dc and Lawson, rondo and Andre miller, kosta and...well kosta. Those are just a few off the top of my head. The only exception where I agree with you is dmc. I don't know if he's coached anyone with his skill set and making him a perimeter player is not working. But besides that, it's not like he forgot how to coach since getting here. I don't think all the blame should be on him. (Not saying you feel this way but others do) We are 5-5 in our last 10 games and just lost to the defending champs in a game probably 99.9% of us thought we would lose anyways. If you said we would have the lead coming into the 3rd quarter i would have thought you were crazy. All these trade cuz, fire karl posts by others are just too much. Now if we lose on weds then get back to me.

 

[dude12]

If we lose Wednesday.....Armageddon.

 

[JoseCousins]

Cousins needs to go for his own sake. Unfortunately Vlade and Petrie mortgaged our future. This team and cuz need a new start.
The team will not win as long as ownership babies cuz when he acts like he did. I don't think he has the mental fortitude to win despite his talent. Also to those stating our backups were good elsewhere why are they all of a sudden bad? Well the other teams had a lot better structure from owner to 12th man than we do. Perhaps that made them look better than they were. Bottom line stars win in this league and ours is disfunctional.

 

[FaStRmAn]

It is amazing the conclusions people reach after losing to a 29-1 team on the 29-1 team's home floor, in a game which we led at halftime.

That is a 11 - 19 analysis. They are not showing any propensity to gel or improve. We need a 2 guard who can consistently shoot. We don't have one. We need guards that can play one on one defense so we don't have to play zone always. A switching zone that leaves deadly professional 3 point shooters wide open. It aint working. I wish Karl would go ahead and play one on one defense. At least we wouldn't get beat from the perimeter EVERY night.

They are going to have to make changes. Im not saying blow up the team. But they are going to have to make a trade. Rudy seems the most expendable when WCS comes back. Trade Rudy for a 2 guard that can play defense and consistently hit a jump shot.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I'm just saying if the argument is players played well before the got here, I think it could be said about the coach. I don't think the square peg analogy fits here because he has coached similar types of players in the past and was successful. Though not exact, I see similarities between gay and melo, dc and Lawson, rondo and Andre miller, kosta and...well kosta. Those are just a few off the top of my head. The only exception where I agree with you is dmc. I don't know if he's coached anyone with his skill set and making him a perimeter player is not working. But besides that, it's not like he forgot how to coach since getting here. I don't think all the blame should be on him. (Not saying you feel this way but others do) We are 5-5 in our last 10 games and just lost to the defending champs in a game probably 99.9% of us thought we would lose anyways. If you said we would have the lead coming into the 3rd quarter i would have thought you were crazy. All these trade cuz, fire karl posts by others are just too much. Now if we lose on weds then get back to me.

I don't consider there to be enough similarities between Anthony and Gay to be significant: Anthony is a player who can't be productive unless he's the focal point of your offense, whereas Gay is a player who can't be productive if he's the focal point of your offense. You can compare Collison to Lawson, I guess, but Karl wasn't bringing Lawson off the bench, and he wasn't playing him alongside another "pure" point guard. I kind of raise my eyebrows at the comparison of Rondo to Miller but, as has already been mentioned, Rondo is one of the two players who is not floundering. McLemore is playing worse, Belinelli is playing worse. Cousins and Gay are playing in a system that is not conducive to their strengths, and largely trying to get by on talent.

The only reason why this team even presents the illusion of looking good without Cousins is because Karl's system isn't set up to incorporate a player like Cousins, anyway. The issue is not that he "forgot" how to coach, the issue is that his coaching style is not particularly flexible.

 

[ockingsfan]

Here is an article on Vlade thinks DMC may get suspended.

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2015/12/29...xpects-suspension/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs

I personally disagree with Vlade's comment. I didn't see any suspendable offense, he did not touch the official, only made a motion towards him.

 

[New Era]

Here is an article on Vlade thinks DMC may get suspended.

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2015/12/29...xpects-suspension/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs

I personally disagree with Vlade's comment. I didn't see any suspendable offense, he did not touch the official, only made a motion towards him.

I agree. He got ejected, had a reaction, and then left the court in a somewhat timely fashion. My gut says he won't get suspended but if Vlade thinks he will then there must be another piece to the puzzle that we don't know.

 

[dude12]

Here is an article on Vlade thinks DMC may get suspended.

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2015/12/29...xpects-suspension/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs

I personally disagree with Vlade's comment. I didn't see any suspendable offense, he did not touch the official, only made a motion towards him.

I think what Vlade means when he says Cuz might get suspended is that the league, because of past suspensions, will suspend Cuz. I think reputation will play a huge part if he's suspended.

 

[John Galt]

Isn't it funny how all of these guys had had some level of success, until they got here, and all of a sudden, maybe they just aren't any good?

I didn't say "any good" I said "that good" but you do love to pick the fight and not just with me.

which guys??? If Bellinelli was still good, he would still be a Spur - it was a mystery they let him go until I started watching him fling crazy passes out of bounds like Cheswick in Cuckoos Nest. Koufus was a backup to Marc Gasol, that does NOT make him Marc Gasol lite or "kinda almost was Marc Gasol". Omri and Rondo are playing out of their mind but we don't give that to Karl. Collison is Collison no real surprise there.

Which guys were successful but then got here and lost it?

All that said, I'm arguing against both sides so it will be lonely. I don't think DMC should go but I don't think he is Hakeem. Im not crazy about Karl's defense but I don't think he is bad either. I don't think Belinelli is worth a crap and I think Koufas is a mild upgrade over Aaron Gray, not a small downgrade to Marc Gasol. I think people including me got WAY too hyped up over this roster. It's a "maybe barely kinda 8th seed/maybe barely kinda .500" roster, and I think the best course is to stay the course the rest of this season. Maybe can get the 8 seed that way - not if they make a radical move.

 

[Merdiesel]

How that refs night could have gone had Rudy not intervened..

 

[SacKings384]

It is amazing the conclusions people reach after losing to a 29-1 team on the 29-1 team's home floor, in a game which we led at halftime.

If we were at or above .500 then I don't think people would be flipping out. For me it was the Portland game that pushed me over the edge. The Warriors game just solidified our atrocious defensive strategy, and the realization of our fears about Boogie regressing mentally.

 

[steelevt]

Here is an article on Vlade thinks DMC may get suspended.

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2015/12/29...xpects-suspension/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs

I personally disagree with Vlade's comment. I didn't see any suspendable offense, he did not touch the official, only made a motion towards him.

I don't see any reason either. Like you mentioned, no physical contact with official, and left in a timely matter. Why would he be suspended?

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I didn't say "any good" I said "that good" but you do love to pick the fight and not just with me.

Of course I do. And you know this, man; you're not new here.

which guys??? If Bellinelli was still good, he would still be a Spur

You've got paperwork on that, right?

Koufus was a backup to Marc Gasol, that does NOT make him Marc Gasol lite or "kinda almost was Marc Gasol".

Well, it's a good thing that I didn't say anything like that, then... There was nobody on KF.com that was saying that Koufos was anything but an upgrade at the backup center position; and, on top of that, a whole bunch of people were on that, "Hey, he played for Karl before, this is going to work out great!"

Which guys were successful but then got here and lost it?

This question seems like a way to conveniently go back,and try to look prescient in hindsight. Except that I know you were online during last offseason, and you weren't saying anything about how these guys were washed up. You didn't really make many comments on the offseason moves: is that because you wanted to be able to go back, after the fact, and claim that you knew that these guys weren't any good, all along?

All that said, I'm arguing against both sides so it will be lonely. I don't think DMC should go but I don't think he is Hakeem. Im not crazy about Karl's defense but I don't think he is bad either...

I think that George Karl is one of the most overrated coaches of my basketball "lifetime," and I've been very consistent about that, even before he became our head coach. He looks like an okay coach, when given a roster built to run his particular gimmick, and that's it.

 

[Bricklayer]

If we were at or above .500 then I don't think people would be flipping out. For me it was the Portland game that pushed me over the edge. The Warriors game just solidified our atrocious defensive strategy, and the realization of our fears about Boogie regressing mentally.

We essentially ARE at .500 after our 1-7 start. 11-12.

 

[Sac.Kings]

I'll be honest I didn't even watch this game because we didn't have a prayer of winning anyway. I am growing tired of Cousin's inability to grow up and change his ways. At this point, he is who he is. He may be built for the playoffs in terms of his game ability, but mentally he would be thrown out in most of them.

The biggest problem is we are direction less. We have a coach trying to pull the team one way and the team pulling the other way. Our best player couldn't lead a softball team filled with 5 year olds, and our perimeter defense is absent, and that's done on purpose! These are big problems that are not going to go away. Something will have to change.