Grades v. Warriors 12/12

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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Artest ( B+ ) -- got off to the strong start in this one, as we repeatedly called his number for iso postups to open the game, and he responded and actually may have forced them to switch into a zone. Also dominated the glass in the early minutes. But started struggling to convert as the Warriors pulled away. Came back out in the third as our only source of fire, and had a burst of domination on both ends of the floor, poking balls away for steals and crashing inside on the other end to draw fouls, which he converted at an amazing 13-13 pace for a 70% FT shooter. Also as promised took Baron a lot of the time and did a good job of disrupting him (from scoring at least -- he still dished out 13 assists). The 4-14 does not look pretty , but really thought that of all of our guys, Ron was the one (Kevin included) who came closest to controlling and turning things in this one.
Thomas ( C-) -- not terrible, but a complete nonfactor on the glass and defensively, where we were getting killed in the first half while he was out there. And it was good ole Matty Barnes who got the start at PF opposite him and just lit him up. Made some poor turnovers that may have contributed to his short night, but mostly I think it was just him being a low skill player in a high skill game, and not shwoing any ability to impact it with boardwork or otherwise.
Miller ( D ) -- slow start with the greyhounds racing up and down, and did not even take a shot until midway through the second. Nor was it like he was dominating inside on the glass where our erstwhile AllStar got badly outplayed by skinny little 21 yr old Andris Beidrins. Scored a couple of hoops finally on a pair of slow I'm-7'0"-and-you're-not rumbles down into the lane, but still ended up with a weak 4pts 5rebs 4TO effort in the same building where he scored a career high 38 a couple of years back. Trade value is sinking by the hour Geoff. Wake up.
Martin ( A-) -- free and easy up and down game of course played right into Kevin's hands, and he had the best looks he's had in weeks. And more than that, in the first half he was notably aggressive, repeatedly forcing the issue, not always wisely. Closest thing we've seen to Kevin acting like a goto scorer. Missed more than a few, had some misadventures, got into foul trouble late, but really got to display much of the repertoire with the exception of his FT shooting, where our 90% shooter hit only 9-13 and actually missed a pair of them back to back in the first quarter. Also thought he did a pretty good job on the Warriors own promising young guard Monta Ellis on the other end. Despite the 32 I decided to add a "-" here just because...hard to explain. But he scored, looked good doing it. But really didn't matter. He was just playing the up and down game dictated by the Warriors, doing his part to keep us in it, but never seemed to dominate or threaten them the way you would expect out of a 32 pt game (probably because when the other team scores 126, 32 is a drop in the bucket). Nice numbers, modest impact.
Bibby ( F ) -- Do not let the numbers decive you! Finished with 16pts, but there was just something so very wrong with this "performance" by Mike. Yo, morons over at Kings HQ! Sit this guy. Now. Let him get healthy, get his stroke back. We've lost 6 of 7 with him. And he's not helping. In any case another rough start for Mike, off to a 1-7 start. And get this, of the 1-7, 1-6 of it were threes. :mad: In fact that was the way the entire game went -- Mike finished 4-14 (only because he hit a handful of shots in semi-garbagetime down the stretch after the game was over), and of the 14 shots, 12 were threes! What the hell is that? That's the extreme lazy Peja game. Can't shoot because of the wrist or whatever, and just chucking up junk. Bad bad game. Needs a rest.
Reef ( B+ ) -- Gotta admit, I had pretty much given up ont his guy in recent weeks (no, not earlier ;) ), His flatline personality had bled over into his game to such a degree that this 30 yr old (Happy Bday Reef) was playing like he was 40. And in the first half it looked like more of the same as Reef just did nothing for us out there once again despite what appeared to be favorable macthups. But he finally woke up through sheer frustration at the end of the third after he kept on getting into scrums down inside missing shots, rebounding the miss, getting shots blocked, rebouyndig again, missing some more, getting smacked etc. Finally blew up and damn near got himself kicked from the game (nice save there by Salmons going over to grab him actually). But at least there was a spark of fire, some pulse. And inj the early 4th Reef, soft passive finesse little Reef, discovered his inner scrapper and began to really thrash around inside. Still not terribly effectively -- could not get over Biedrins, but relentlessly pursuing the misses, getting it back up again and again until the damn thing went in or he was fouled. Signs of life and fight appreciated. Unfortunately down on the other side fo the court Biedrins was matching him hoop for hoop and far more effienctly, just going over, through, or around him on a layup drill. So poor first half, spotty defense (the good spots being a couple of blocks where again Reef looked inspired), but more life than we've seen out of this guy in weeks.
Salmons ( B ) -- started off slow, and did little in the early going, but as the half wore on began to find the seams in the Warriors' zone defense and as the ball was swung around the perimeter he began to use ball fakes and drives to get to the hoop to score and dish off assists. In fact as we of course went small to match the Warriors, Salmons essentially palyed the whoile game as our SF with Ron at PF, and finished with a double double with 18pts 10 assists. Began to force, and miss, shots as the game wore on, particularly from the outside as he tried to shoot over the zone. Problem being he is not a good distance shooter (2-7 3pters). And defensively obviously did not have much impact. But still, our #3 guy tonight, and if not an impact performance, the other guy along with Kevin who seemed generally comfortable in this little pickup game we were caught up in. Actually pondered a "-" here, as in a bit of a reversal form his normal pattern, in this one it felt like he might actually be less effective than his numbers mihgt indicate, rather than more. But 18 and 10 is 18 and 10, and from a guy who gives you about 7 and 3 that's gotta be something.
Hart ( B ) -- You know what? I was pretty happy with much maligned Jason Hart tongiht. Got the first half beckup PG minutes instead of Price, and acquitted himself well, hustling on defense and knocking down a pair of straight ahead 18 footers from the top of the key. And came back in the second half and again went right to work competing hard against Davis or whoever else was in front of him. Of course has all of the talent of a used pair of Bibby's sneakers, but worked hard, did not make mistakes, and scrapped his way until he fouled out. Was all I could really ask for from him this time out.
Garcia ( C ) -- short stints, missed too many shots, including an airball, and did little else well. Going with that gentleman's C here again because I barely noticed him except for an occasional screwup.
Price ( INC ) -- couple of minutes of garbagetime

Muss ( C- ) -- I was actually pretty happy with how we started this one out -- repeatedly and obviously using Ron to punish them down in the interior and jumping out to a 6-0 lead. Unfortunately that was rougholy the last thing I was happy with tongiht. The lead of course evaporated in record time. We went away from that early startegy, and in a truly shocking development no defense and no rebounding were on display. We did really buckle down though at the end fo the second quarter, and stopped the Warriros from dropping another 70pt half on us. :rolleyes: In any case, moves of interest included moving Jason Hart up in the rotation ahead of Price (which worked well tonight actually), dropping Corliss entirely out of the rotation after the big scoring night last game (which may have just been a matchup thing), the early iso postups by Ron, a good play call out of a timeout resulting in an open Kevin 3pter, and of course our decision to once again follow Nellie and try to outsmallball a smallballing team, wiht the normal results. Muss also repeated his stupidity in "garbagetime" as once again there we are running out Ron Artest and Mike Bibby in an apparent desperate effort to get them hurt down 16 with 1:30 to go. Not that them being healthy is helping. And through it all, I dunno, Muss's demeanor is bothering me -- amusingly a common complaint from the old anti-Adelman crowd of years past. But Muss alternated from looking annoyed and chippy to just looking shellshocked and depressed. He was practically begging for a technical from...is it Brothers? whoever that big *** musclebound ref is, but the ref was just ignoring him like an irrelevant yipping little gerbil. Probably pondering whether to T him up or just turn around and knock him on his ***. And then, that ploy having failed, he sat back down to stare off into space. I don't like to get too much into sideline demeanors of coaches etc., because frankly they vary wildly and there is no consistent pattern amongst the big winners. But Muss right now just looks beat. As do we. Everybody's healthy now, more or less. If its not the coach, and its not the players, who leads us out of this depressing morass? And right through the teeth of another brutal three game swing too.



Matt Barnes ( F )
-- revenge is a dish... If we were going to lose, I'm glad it was Matt doing the damage. Went off on a ridiculous career game where he was clearly the best player on the floor with 32pts 11rebs and just raining threes down on our heads from all angles. Same guy we dumped as a throw in in the Webb trade, and then simply refused to take back even after he hung out in Sacto waiting for us to invite him back all summer. So good for you Matt. Now just don't do it again. ;)
 
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That was pretty bad.

Bibby... I mean, that was rock bottom, right? It can't get worse than that? Um... right? ..... Right?

Kevin Martin -- pretty good. It's amazing what a difference it is when he attacks the basket. He looked like early season Kevin, which is a great sign. Maybe it wasn't a fluke after all.

Anyone else think Jason Hart is out there to build up some trade value? I will give him credit though, he was solid. But what has Ronnie Price done wrong?

I can't even talk about that guy from Sacramento who used to play for UCLA. I can't even say his name. I mean, that was just ridiculous. Where has this season come from? Where was it three years ago? I can't think about this or my head will explode.
 
The only thing this game was worth watching for was that it was a good thing Kevin Martin didn't get dealt off in an Iverson trade. Hindsight is 20/20, which is a good thing in this case.

On the other hand, in the "Kenny Thomas is an asset" vs. "Kenny Thomas is a liability" debate, the pro-K9 is now resorting to the strategy of trying to hurt the anti-K9's fist by hitting it with pro-K9's face. I'd take freakin' Marbury over KT at this point.
 
The Grades:

Ron Artest: Grade: C. Artest started slow tonight and stayed slow from the field. In the first quarter he shot 1-6 FG, but still ended the half with 10 pts. His big postive tonight was some perfect FT shooting 13-13 from the line. This is nice to see because it shows that he was working inside and not taking as many treys, although he did still take four from outside the arc. Another nice thing to see from Ron was 9 rebounds... But I'm not quite sure if it's a good thing or not that our SF is one of our best rebounders. Final stats: 4-14 FG, 13-13 FT, 1-4 3PT, 9 REB, 4 AST, 3 STL, 22 PTS.

Kenny Thomas: Grade C-. Thomas only played in the first half for a total of 15 minutes and he was not much of a factor in that time. Made a couple shots, grabbed a few rebounds, and that was his whole night. Final stats: 2-3 FG, 3 REB, 1 STL.

Brad Miller: Grade C-. Not much to say here, Miller had a quiet night tonight. Shot 2-2 in the first half for 4 pts, actually the second quarter... Miller took no shots in the first quarter despite starting. Also interesting he took no shots in the third quarter. So a very quiet night offensively and 1 blk defensively. Final Stats: 2-2 FG, 5 REB, 1 AST, 1 STL, 1 BLK, 4 PTS.

Kevin Martin: Grade B. A strong showing by Martin tonight starting with a nice first quarter. He started off somewhat hot, although I will say that it is interesting keeping track of Martin's FT shooting. I remember he had a run earlier in the season where he hit around 39 straight FTs? In tonight's effort he missed his first two FTs and it seems that he is not having the same ease he had early in the season at the line (which is strange because the FT line is the same distance as before and he can't get double teamed there). He finished at the line shooting 69% which is a far cry from the 91% he is averaging. At any rate, Martin looked a lot better tonight in an overall depressing game. It is guaranteed that Martin will say he would have preferred a win over having nice stats and who wouldn't. Final stats: 10-18 FG, 9-13 FT (69%!!), 3-7 3PT, 5 REB, 4 AST, 1 STL, 32 PTS.

Mike Bibby: Grade D. The first half he had no effect on the game other then on defense (I assume he helped the GSW shoot 5-9 from 3pt land in the first quarter). His shooting for the first half was 1/7 including 1/6 from trey land. The third quarter was more of the same as the first half, except that he got a few fts and hit one more three. I was going to just say F, but he didn't miss in the fourth quarter although by then it was too late and didn't matter anyway. Final stats: 4-14 FG, 4-6FT, 4-12 3PT, 5 REB, 4 AST, 16 PTS.

Shareef Abdur-Rahim: Grade C-. An uneventful first half in which he made the one shot he took. One of the three players to go 1-5 FG in the third quarter, but he gets points for showing some life. Got called for a tech dished out a flagrant foul in our loss. Showed some kind of life and emotion. Final stats: 4-9 FG, 3-4 FT, 9 REB, 1 AST, 2 BLK, 11 PTS.

John Salmons: Grade C+. Had decent 1st, 2nd, and 4th quarters. Mixed in with a bad 3rd quarter. Shot 1-5 FG in the third quarter with SAR and Bibby and finished with 2-7 from 3PT range, but did have some redeeming qualities. A big one was his 10 assists tonight! By far our "best assist" man tonight, the next best was Bibby and Artest who both had 4 assists. Ended with a double-double tonight and it'd be nice to see this more often, albeit with a few less 3's shot. Final stats: 6-15 FG, 4-5 FT, 2-7 3PT, 4 REB, 10 AST, 2 STL, 18 PTS.

Note: I only included positive stats... although by those guidelines Bibby's shooting stats should have been omitted. :eek:

edit: forgot the coach... he gets a D- for doing nothing.
on second thought after seeing Brick's analysis Ron does indeed deserve a higher grade then D+.
 
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I can't even talk about that guy from Sacramento who used to play for UCLA. I can't even say his name. I mean, that was just ridiculous. Where has this season come from? Where was it three years ago? I can't think about this or my head will explode.


I like the kid. I liked his effort and energy when he was here, and was sad to see him go. We missed his hustle after that trade. In general, I'm glad he's doing well.

But, just for tonight: **** you, Matt Barnes.
 
The Warriors give Muss an A. Played right into Nellies hands.....:mad:





< goes to kick another box >

lol, although I agree that Muss didn't do anything to change Nellie's gameplan I don't think that he could have done much. The opposite would have been to slow-down the game, but I don't think that the Kings could have done that with their current personnel so I don't see how we could have tried to stop the train wreck. We don't have many options when it comes to shotblocking.
 
And through it all, I dunno, Muss's demeanor is bothering me -- amusingly a common complaint from the old anti-Adelman crowd of years past. But Muss alternated from looking annoyed and chippy to just looking shellshocked and depressed. He was practically begging for a technical from...is it Brothers? whoever that big *** musclebound ref is, but the ref was just ignoring him like an irrelevant yipping little gerbil. Probably pondering whether to T him up or just turn around and knock him on his ***. And then, that ploy having failed, he sat back down to stare off into space. I don't like to get too much into sideline demeanors of coaches etc., because frankly they vary wildly and there is no consistent pattern amongst the big winners. But Muss right now just looks beat. As do we.


I agree with this 100%.

With Adelman there was always a sense that his demeanor on the court was in line with his personality -- his laid back approach was just part of who he is.

There's something worrisome about Muss, though. Can be so demonstrative and passionate at times, yet completely disconnected at others. Almost looks as though either the wild flailing and screaming Muss is somehow insincere and done for dramatic effect, or that he flat out sucks at hiding it when he is completely and utterly baffled. Neither is good.
 
BRICKLAYER: Miller ( D ) -- slow start with the greyhounds racing up and down, and did not even take a shot until midway through the second. Nor was it like he was dominating inside on the glass where our erstwhile AllStar got badly outplayed by skinny little 21 yr old Andris Beidrins. Scored a couple of hoops finally on a pair of slow I'm-7'0"-and-you're-not rumbles down into the lane, but still ended up with a weak 4pts 5rebs 4TO effort in the same building where he scored a career high 38 a couple of years back. Trade value is sinking by the hour Geoff. Wake up.


so right it brings a tear to my eye

another thing i'd like to point out is that Adonele Foyle had 20 points and 7 rebounds
 
so right it brings a tear to my eye

another thing i'd like to point out is that Adonele Foyle had 20 points and 7 rebounds
HOLY ****!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WTF??????
Man i didnt even notice that!
All i saw was sac town finest
KT for him i wish
 
HOLY ****!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WTF??????
Man i didnt even notice that!
All i saw was sac town finest
KT for him i wish

It didn't happen.

Andris Biedrins, their starting center and a serious most improved player candidate this year, dropped something like 20 and 11 on us. Foyle got 3pts 2rebs in reserve action.
 
Kevin Martin -- pretty good. It's amazing what a difference it is when he attacks the basket. He looked like early season Kevin, which is a great sign. Maybe it wasn't a fluke after all.

Most of Martin's points came off the fast break and transition type baskets.

In the sets, he got his points from open looks. When he tried to attack and create, he looked sloppy. He's still at his best playing off of people. I'm starting to think he's a lot like a "Kerry Kittles" with a jumper. Really quick and athletic and just racking up points off the break.

As for it being a fluke ... I don't think it was, but I also know that Golden State doesn't exactly pride themselves on playing defense.
 
Most of Martin's points came off the fast break and transition type baskets.

In the sets, he got his points from open looks. When he tried to attack and create, he looked sloppy. He's still at his best playing off of people. I'm starting to think he's a lot like a "Kerry Kittles" with a jumper. Really quick and athletic and just racking up points off the break.

As for it being a fluke ... I don't think it was, but I also know that Golden State doesn't exactly pride themselves on playing defense.


Martin didn't get 13 FT attempts from just running on the break. When Kevin Martin gets those calls the you know who's of the league get, he'll be a great attacker.
 
Martin didn't get 13 FT attempts from just running on the break. When Kevin Martin gets those calls the you know who's of the league get, he'll be a great attacker.

apparently from VF's PBP last night he was getting mugged and although he got to the line for 13 FT's he should have had more attempts :eek:
 
Martin didn't get 13 FT attempts from just running on the break. When Kevin Martin gets those calls the you know who's of the league get, he'll be a great attacker.

Martin got a lot of phantom calls the other night. He's a bit of a flopper with some pages stolen straight from the "Mike Bibby School of Acting".

I'm not begrudging the kid. He's got skill and an amazing first step. His stop and pop jumper creates nasty seperation, but he's got a lot to work on when it comes to creating when he's truly covered and a focus for defenses.

He let the game come to him last night, and did well because of it.
 
Martin got a lot of phantom calls the other night. He's a bit of a flopper with some pages stolen straight from the "Mike Bibby School of Acting".

I'm not begrudging the kid. He's got skill and an amazing first step. His stop and pop jumper creates nasty seperation, but he's got a lot to work on when it comes to creating when he's truly covered and a focus for defenses.

He let the game come to him last night, and did well because of it.

That's simply not true. I'm not some rookie who doesn't recognize a flop when I see one. The VF stands for Vlade Fan. I recognize flopping when I see it.
 
Martin didn't get 13 FT attempts from just running on the break. When Kevin Martin gets those calls the you know who's of the league get, he'll be a great attacker.

Oh I think he already gets most of those calls -- he reminds me a bit of Reggie Miller in the way he overreacts and flails about at the slightest hint of contact. There's a reason we shoot more FTs than our opponents -- Ron growls and attacks fearlessly inside forcing the refs to call something, and both Mike and Kevin have to be very annoying to play against with all the flopping and seeking out contact they do. I've seen both of them actually miss shots inside because they are trying so hard to find somebody to run into for the call. Its smart if the refs will call it (see entry under Ginobilli, Manu). Its also the sort of thing that would get you decked on a pickup court. ;) In any case Kevin is already 19th in the league in FTA/gm and Mike is 24th. And while its traditional for every fan of every team to feel like their guys are getting the short end of the whistle, the only reason we aren't even doing worse is because we're shooting about 15-20% more FTs than our opponents every night.


But as to the orginal point -- I would generally agree that Kevin is still at his best and most efficent on the break or in the open. Even when he attacks, the key event is normally a seam opening up form ball movement, so the defender is moving and out of position. He's smart about choosing his opportunities (somewhat less so while being aggressive last night, but that's to be expected). But he lacks the ball skills to just consistently break a defender down in straight ahead fashion.

In any case, the Warriors don't stop anyone of course, and the tempo they play at is perfect for him. Not sure what happened in Phoenix last week, but this game is the one I think best suited to his talents maybe in the entire NBA. Let's just get out and run, you score, I score. 32 pts is a lot of points, but can't say that I was surprised really. Looked like a perfect game for him to bounce back in.
 
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I still maintain that Martin doesn't flop as a matter of course. He may exaggerate at times - what player doesn't? - but he is nothing like the great ones, such as Manu, Vlade, etc.
 
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