[Grades] Grades v. Warriors 1/21/11

[pshn80]

Why is every loss nowadays blamed on Coach Westphal? Wow, as if he was the one who drove pointlessly towards the baseline with nowhere to go, on a huge possession, and ended up in no-man's land, which of course ended in a turnover and a three-point basket for the warriors.

that play occured while the kings were still in it and was basically the dagger that killed us.

guess who had the ball in that play? tyreke freaking evans. i might sound repetitive, now, but there's no doubting the evidence to back up the fact that he's a TERRIBLE decision maker.

I'll agree he makes terrrible decisions and, in my book, it seems he makes these gaffs in critical times in the 4th quarter. Even in games where he is otherwise great. I've wondered lately about his stamina, again, even when he otherwise has brilliant games, he shows fatigue in the 4th. He pants open mouthed, he does the no-thought thing for him which is to put his head down and drive for the basket, he is much less likely to pass. Of couse, he doesn't do this in a vacuum, he has the OK of the coach because it happens too often. Almost like it is just too much to deal with both end of game pressure AND fatigue.

Take the ball out his hands at that point? Not likely.

 

[hrdboild]

This team, this year, is the very definition of "playing just well enough to lose". I don't think you could do it any better if you tried. And the sad part is, if they could actually manage to win a few of these games where they're right there at the end they'd start to develop some swagger and some confidence which would help them win more of them. A lot of the bad decision making at crunch time seems to come from indecision or hesitation. That's the only explanation I can come up with for why our star players can play well for three and a half quarters and then completely fall apart. They're pressing and we know it and they know that we know it and so on. But they're young, they will get better. This isn't a blow it up and start over team, this is more of a wait and see team.

 

[vikinginferno]

I really have no idea why Beno passed it to Pooh in the end of regulation. You are the best FT shooter on the team, are one of the more experienced players, just keep the ball, make the free throws and win the game.

 

[bajaden]

I really have no idea why Beno passed it to Pooh in the end of regulation. You are the best FT shooter on the team, are one of the more experienced players, just keep the ball, make the free throws and win the game.

I sat there and screamed at my TV, Beno!! What the hell are you doing? It may not have ended in a different result, but I would have liked to find out..

 

[UK_King]

one word fragility... if you're used to winning and the other team goes on a run you think "whatever!" if you're used to losing you think "uh oh"

and to be honest i can't blame the players, i've been in sporting situations where my legs and arms go to jelly; it's all about experience.

sure a veteran ball handler would help but looks like we'll be waiting a long time for that unless they are cap space neutral.

so in the mean time it's just about gritting our teeth and letting these guys play through this phase.

 

[gunks]

Too much anger.

This team is playing hard. Truly amazing mental hangups when it comes time to find a way to lose, but its playing hard, it comes back when down, and its making every game a dogfight for the opponents. Nobody gets to rest their guys against us. It is in fact, sad as may be said, quite likely the second best month of basketball this franchise has played in the last 3 seasons. And people are screeching around here like its the end of the world. When your toddler first starts taking those halting steps and falling down every few feet because his balance sucks and he doesn't know what he's doing, its not a call to spank him because he won't be entering the marathon this year. Things have gotten distinctly better. I would go so far as to say we are maybe 1 or 2 clutch plays a game away from playing like a .500 team. there are many, many teams in far worse shape than we are at this point. Pity Cleveland, or the Raptors, or Detroit. We're doing ok. ****ing up every game, but you can see it coming together beyond that.

Yessir.

It is frustrating as hell that we blow so many leads/play so many crappy 4ths. But the fact is, we're in a position to win A LOT towards the end of games. Most cellar dwellars get blown out, but we're actually a lot better than our record would indicate. Once all the youngsters learn how to close games out, there is going to be a huge spike in Ws.

Better coach (easier said than done), more experience. Hopefully we add a few vets over the summer. They dont have to be allstars either, just solid and smart. I'm seeing progress. Its not called growing PAINS for nothin'.

 

[Section 101]

Let me ask you. What would Jerry Sloan have done if Evans was on his team and made the same mistake? Just curious. How about Pat Riley, or Phil Jackson? As I point out in another thread, how many times has Westphal been asked about Evans decision making at the end of games? And how many times has Westphal stated that Tryeke is our guy. I want him to be the guy with the ball in his hands at the end of games. In other words, Westphal has given Evans carte blanche to do what he wants without penality. How many times has Westphal stated that the team didn't run the play I called and thats why we lost the game. The question is, who is it thats ignoring the coach, and why is there no repercussion? This team desperately needs an experienced ballhandler and decision maker. Especially at crunch time.

Which is why I suggested the Beno for Andre Miller trade.

 

[bajaden]

Which is why I suggested the Beno for Andre Miller trade.

I've been an Andre Miller fan for a long time. He's one of those guys that just quietly goes about his business and gets the job done. The only problem I have with the trade is the age were giving up. What I would prefer, would be to aquire Milller without giving up Beno. Then Beno would be our first guard off the bench. Of course I'll leave to you how to accomplish that..

 

[Bricklayer]

I've been an Andre Miller fan for a long time. He's one of those guys that just quietly goes about his business and gets the job done. The only problem I have with the trade is the age were giving up. What I would prefer, would be to aquire Milller without giving up Beno. Then Beno would be our first guard off the bench. Of course I'll leave to you how to accomplish that..

Baja, Miller is almost as old as you are.

And he can't shoot.

He'd obviously be of no use longterm, and I don't really know what use he's be shortterm anymore either. Might get us an extra win or two. Or maybe not -- has the guy ever won? At this point its probably better to let this play out unless we get a longterm solution. Free agency for us is basically 3 months away, we'll have the money to make the changes we want to make, so there's no reason to be giving up much of any asset to get a short termer. So you let it play out, guys take their lumps and learn, and whether they are making progress or not helps guide you in the offseason. Throwing in a creky old vet on top just stymies things and obscures the longeterm outlook for the team

 

[est.1999]

I think Gabriel waited a long time to get tyrekes autograph at carls jr one day and Evans left just as Gabriel was going to get his autograph, he then proceeded to blame Evans for it by making him out to be a selfish prick, and now he hates tyreke and blames him for every loss(even though we're in position to win games in the first place because of Evans).

 

[Lockehead]

Let me ask you. What would Jerry Sloan have done if Evans was on his team and made the same mistake? Just curious. How about Pat Riley, or Phil Jackson? As I point out in another thread, how many times has Westphal been asked about Evans decision making at the end of games? And how many times has Westphal stated that Tryeke is our guy. I want him to be the guy with the ball in his hands at the end of games. In other words, Westphal has given Evans carte blanche to do what he wants without penality. How many times has Westphal stated that the team didn't run the play I called and thats why we lost the game. The question is, who is it thats ignoring the coach, and why is there no repercussion? This team desperately needs an experienced ballhandler and decision maker. Especially at crunch time.

No! A coach doesn't shoot freethrows or run plays or miss shots. But to use that analogy as a measuring stick for a coach is ridiculous. If that were true, no coach in the NBA would ever be fired. It would always be the players fault. Anytime a ship runs aground, or is lost at sea, or is taken over by a mutiny, its the captain that gets the blame. When a corporation loses money, its the CEO that gets the blame. Rightly or wrongly, Westphal has to shoulder the blame. There's a reason teams that are run by good coaches always look orginized. If you ask anyone thats played for Pops at San Antonio, they'll tell you he treats everyone the same way. He plays no favorites, and if you screw up, your going to get your butt chewed and probably sit on the bench for a few minutes. Your going to play the way he wants you to play, or your not going to play. If someone ignores the play you called, you sit their butt down no matter who it is. If your not willing to do that, then you deserve to be fired.

I agree with you here.

 

[mac]

Baja, Miller is almost as old as you are.

And he can't shoot.

He'd obviously be of no use longterm, and I don't really know what use he's be shortterm anymore either. Might get us an extra win or two. Or maybe not -- has the guy ever won? At this point its probably better to let this play out unless we get a longterm solution. Free agency for us is basically 3 months away, we'll have the money to make the changes we want to make, so there's no reason to be giving up much of any asset to get a short termer. So you let it play out, guys take their lumps and learn, and whether they are making progress or not helps guide you in the offseason. Throwing in a creky old vet on top just stymies things and obscures the longeterm outlook for the team

How pissed would you be if this offseason we blow our capspace by signing an ageing vet and a Richard Jefferson level player?

 

[Dr. Spaceman]

Let me ask you. What would Jerry Sloan have done if Evans was on his team and made the same mistake? Just curious. How about Pat Riley, or Phil Jackson? As I point out in another thread, how many times has Westphal been asked about Evans decision making at the end of games? And how many times has Westphal stated that Tryeke is our guy. I want him to be the guy with the ball in his hands at the end of games. In other words, Westphal has given Evans carte blanche to do what he wants without penality. How many times has Westphal stated that the team didn't run the play I called and thats why we lost the game. The question is, who is it thats ignoring the coach, and why is there no repercussion? This team desperately needs an experienced ballhandler and decision maker. Especially at crunch time.

No! A coach doesn't shoot freethrows or run plays or miss shots. But to use that analogy as a measuring stick for a coach is ridiculous. If that were true, no coach in the NBA would ever be fired. It would always be the players fault. Anytime a ship runs aground, or is lost at sea, or is taken over by a mutiny, its the captain that gets the blame. When a corporation loses money, its the CEO that gets the blame. Rightly or wrongly, Westphal has to shoulder the blame. There's a reason teams that are run by good coaches always look orginized. If you ask anyone thats played for Pops at San Antonio, they'll tell you he treats everyone the same way. He plays no favorites, and if you screw up, your going to get your butt chewed and probably sit on the bench for a few minutes. Your going to play the way he wants you to play, or your not going to play. If someone ignores the play you called, you sit their butt down no matter who it is. If your not willing to do that, then you deserve to be fired.

Spot on, Baja. I think this team is missing an air of discipline that would help maintain their collective focus on the game-plan throughout the entire 48 minutes of every night. We've gone 40+ games (even more if you want to count the the second half of last season as well) and on any given night, these Kings are allowed to drop the playbook down the drain and go into panic/iso/selfish/stupid mode. And yes, I do mean "allowed." With a team this young, I think the reins should be tighter than they are currently. They still don't seem to be learning too effectively through Westphal's style of allowing the team to freefall and "hopefully" learn from whatever mistakes cost them the game. There's something to be said for being allowed to make and learn from mistakes, but as the coach, you can teach these lessons within the moment. It doesn't have to cost you the game. Like you said, this is something that Gregg Popovich is great at, and I agree. It's what makes him one of the best ever.

At the same time, don't get this confused with wanting a coach like Jeff Van Gundy, who coaches snoozefests to go along with the heavy rein-pulling. I think there needs to be more balance in the philosophy than what he offers. As for who has that balance on the coaching market: the investigation continues...

 

[bajaden]

Baja, Miller is almost as old as you are.

And he can't shoot.

He'd obviously be of no use longterm, and I don't really know what use he's be shortterm anymore either. Might get us an extra win or two. Or maybe not -- has the guy ever won? At this point its probably better to let this play out unless we get a longterm solution. Free agency for us is basically 3 months away, we'll have the money to make the changes we want to make, so there's no reason to be giving up much of any asset to get a short termer. So you let it play out, guys take their lumps and learn, and whether they are making progress or not helps guide you in the offseason. Throwing in a creky old vet on top just stymies things and obscures the longeterm outlook for the team

I never thought for a moment that we would actually pursue Miller, but I do believe that he's they type of player we need to be handling the ball in crunch time, until Tyreke's game matures more. If we could get Miller cheap and for the short term, then I would be on board. But no, I don't see him as a long term solution. Now Chris Paul, thats another story.

Looking at it from another view, I wouldn't mind bringing back someone like Ronnie Price who would be nice to put on the floor in critical situations in place of Beno. Beno had two three's shot over him when we had that 9 pt lead. Would the outcome have been different with a good defensive PG out there. I love the tenacity that Jeter brings, but just about every PG in the league not named Muggsy Bogues can shoot over him.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

I never thought for a moment that we would actually pursue Miller, but I do believe that he's they type of player we need to be handling the ball in crunch time, until Tyreke's game matures more. If we could get Miller cheap and for the short term, then I would be on board. But no, I don't see him as a long term solution. Now Chris Paul, thats another story.

Looking at it from another view, I wouldn't mind bringing back someone like Ronnie Price who would be nice to put on the floor in critical situations in place of Beno. Beno had two three's shot over him when we had that 9 pt lead. Would the outcome have been different with a good defensive PG out there. I love the tenacity that Jeter brings, but just about every PG in the league not named Muggsy Bogues can shoot over him.

Miller and Evans out there together would be ... Not something I would like to watch. One of your guards needs to be able to shoot.

One guy Im really starting to come around on, and a guy I could see being a nice fit on this team is Kemba Walker. The more I watch these late game meltdowns, the more I realize we need a player who can finish games with his ability to make space and get a jumper instead of forcing the ball into the paint time after time. When you watch the great game finishers like Lebron or Kobe or Durant or Pierce .. how often do those guys go to the rim for the final shot? not often. If Evans could shoot he could be the guy, but right now he cant and his decision making is very poor. Bad shooting + Bad decision making doesnt leave you with a very good finisher. I see a lot in terms of finishing out games with Walker. He can create his own shot off the dribble which is something no one else on this team can do right now. Not to mention he can do a lot of damage scoring off the bench next season if we decide to keep Beno in as the starter.

If it is Walker or someone else, I think he is the kind of player we need.

 

[bajaden]

Miller and Evans out there together would be ... Not something I would like to watch. One of your guards needs to be able to shoot.

One guy Im really starting to come around on, and a guy I could see being a nice fit on this team is Kemba Walker. The more I watch these late game meltdowns, the more I realize we need a player who can finish games with his ability to make space and get a jumper instead of forcing the ball into the paint time after time. When you watch the great game finishers like Lebron or Kobe or Durant or Pierce .. how often do those guys go to the rim for the final shot? not often. If Evans could shoot he could be the guy, but right now he cant and his decision making is very poor. Bad shooting + Bad decision making doesnt leave you with a very good finisher. I see a lot in terms of finishing out games with Walker. He can create his own shot off the dribble which is something no one else on this team can do right now. Not to mention he can do a lot of damage scoring off the bench next season if we decide to keep Beno in as the starter.

If it is Walker or someone else, I think he is the kind of player we need.

Well were mixing apples and oranges here a little bit. I was talking about some veteran leadership at the PG position to cut down on late game mistakes. And while I like Kemba Walker, he doesn't fit the definition of veteran leadership. Once again you would be putting the outcome of a game into the hands of a very young player with no NBA experience. I was using Miller as an example. Billups would be another example. By the way, Miller is a terrible 3 pt shooter, but then he doesn't take many. His mid-range game is fine though and he shoots around 46% overall. So its not as though he can't shoot the ball at all.

 

[rainmaker]

I never thought for a moment that we would actually pursue Miller, but I do believe that he's they type of player we need to be handling the ball in crunch time, until Tyreke's game matures more. If we could get Miller cheap and for the short term, then I would be on board. But no, I don't see him as a long term solution. Now Chris Paul, thats another story.

Looking at it from another view, I wouldn't mind bringing back someone like Ronnie Price who would be nice to put on the floor in critical situations in place of Beno. Beno had two three's shot over him when we had that 9 pt lead. Would the outcome have been different with a good defensive PG out there. I love the tenacity that Jeter brings, but just about every PG in the league not named Muggsy Bogues can shoot over him.

What do think about the problems Roy and Miller have had together in the backcourt? Roy has publicly complained more than once about Miller dominating the ball, and he not getting enough touches and being able to get into the flow. Tyreke needs the ball just like Roy. I could potentially see the same problems developing between a Tyreke/Miller backcourt.

 

[FaStRmAn]

Gotta say the refereeing was poor. But the Kings are their own worst enemy right now. I hope they can do some kind of trade to even make this season the least bit interesting. As it stands, the Kings are the least interesting team in the League. The NBA was wise not to televise the Kings nationally much this year. There is no reason to subject the rest of the country to our ongoing SHAME.