[Grades] Grades v. The Morons in Striped Shirts 1/21/2017

Where's the secondary scoring we so desperately need going to come from?

  • Collison

    Votes: 2 4.2%

  • Afflalo

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Lawson

    Votes: 4 8.3%

  • Omri?

    Votes: 6 12.5%

  • one of the kids

    Votes: 7 14.6%

  • a trade

    Votes: 6 12.5%

  • we're screwed

    Votes: 23 47.9%
  • Total voters
    48
  • Poll closed .
Joerger has been fail, and worse than Karl record wise so far. Karl at this point doesn't look bad, and justified with his record last year

Joerger needs to be held accountable for the record and his questionable decisions/rotations etc and not getting things done bottom line
 
Kingsfan23 said:
Joerger has been fail, and worse than Karl record wise so far. Karl at this point doesn't look bad, and justified with his record last year

Joerger needs to be held accountable for the record and his questionable decisions/rotations etc and not getting things done bottom line
Click to expand...

really... ok what do you want done? you want to fire Joerger and then do what?
 
Ok the bad calls at the end of the 2nd and the 4th blew and cost the game, BUT there are some positives here. 1. Kings played 4 decent quarters of ball neither digging holes or blowing leads. 2. This was despite the fact that the only guy consistently scoring was DMC and 3. he rose to that occasion. 4. Coach called in some of the kids and they held their own. I can't say I am happy but it is NOT all bad either.
 
Lawson was breaking down the Bulls
HndsmCelt said:
Ok the bad calls at the end of the 2nd and the 4th blew and cost the game, BUT there are some positives here. 1. Kings played 4 decent quarters of ball neither digging holes or blowing leads. 2. This was despite the fact that the only guy consistently scoring was DMC and 3. he rose to that occasion. 4. Coach called in some of the kids and they held their own. I can't say I am happy but it is NOT all bad either.
Click to expand...

Ok, I can get on board with that. Progress is being made and lets not forget that was D Wade AND Jimmy Butler on the floor last night. A HOFer and an Olympian are a pretty dynamic opponent regardless of the win vs loss record of the Bulls.
 
Bulls play to our strengths. Not the fastest team, not that much 3 point shooting - this and a supermanlike performance of DMC kept us in the game. Of course the refs lost us this one, but the fact, that we can't put a team we match up extremely well against away, when Cousins plays at his absolute best is just very concerning.
 
Kingsfan23 said:
Joerger has been fail, and worse than Karl record wise so far. Karl at this point doesn't look bad, and justified with his record last year

Joerger needs to be held accountable for the record and his questionable decisions/rotations etc and not getting things done bottom line
Click to expand...
Your talking about last years coach who lost the team early in the season, alienated most of the roster including the meal ticket before they played a single game last year....that guy?
 
John Galt said:
really... ok what do you want done? you want to fire Joerger and then do what?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't fire him yet even if I'm not on board with him

I'm just surprised a coach can go 16-27, achieve less than Karl, make questionable decisions might after night and come under as li
dude12 said:
Your talking about last years coach who lost the team early in the season, alienated most of the roster including the meal ticket before they played a single game last year....that guy?
Click to expand...

I don't like Karl. I'm just using the fact that Karl did better in achievement to paint the picture on Joerger's job so far

It seems he isn't properly being held accountable
 
Kingsfan23 said:
I wouldn't fire him yet even if I'm not on board with him

I'm just surprised a coach can go 16-27, achieve less than Karl, make questionable decisions might after night and come under as li


I don't like Karl. I'm just using the fact that Karl did better in achievement to paint the picture on Joerger's job so far

It seems he isn't properly being held accountable
Click to expand...
The guy has come out and said that this is a year and a half process before they could probably start winning consistently. Has called this year to point a process in figuring out who we will be running with in the future. Completely different process than what Karl was doing. Now you may not agree with this process which is fine but this IS what is going on. Karl was a dumpster fire. Under Joerger, they continue to play hard and buy in to what he's spinning. For fans, it can be frustrating for sure but I'm going to trust the process. This guy wins, so I'm all in with the guy.
 
dude12 said:
The guy has come out and said that this is a year and a half process before they could probably start winning consistently. Has called this year to point a process in figuring out who we will be running with in the future. Completely different process than what Karl was doing. Now you may not agree with this process which is fine but this IS what is going on. Karl was a dumpster fire. Under Joerger, they continue to play hard and buy in to what he's spinning. For fans, it can be frustrating for sure but I'm going to trust the process. This guy wins, so I'm all in with the guy.
Click to expand...

Good points, but why do we try to figure out with whom we will be running in the future, when nearly all of those guys getting most of the minutes are already trending towards Nba retirement?
 
KingsFanGER said:
Good points, but why do we try to figure out with whom we will be running in the future, when nearly all of those guys getting most of the minutes are already trending towards Nba retirement?
Click to expand...
A question for Joerger and Divac but I can speculate....seeing how Joerger operates in regards to young guys and how we have lots of short term and expiring contracts, I think Joerger follows the same theory as Popovich who also doesn't play young guys just to play them. I think they both follow the same philosophy that the rooks and young guys need to earn it and beat these vets out. I'm speculating but based on him saying its a year and a half process and his history with young players, I think this is what's going on.

We are halfway through the year and I believe he's gone through the process with Ben and Ben's time with Sac may be done. I think it's why we have seen WCS get some run and then also sit for DNP-CD's. Willie was been very active in the last couple of games....shows some moments of promise, but he has to play with energy and he has lately. I'm hoping for the last 40 games, Malachi gets some run and builds his minutes.

I'm down with this process, makes the young guys hungry for PT. I really think Ben got hurt in his career by being given minutes he never earned......we see what he's become.....very fragile and tentative mentally. I want to see our rooks play as much as anyone else but I'm going to trust the process in place.
 
dude12 said:
The guy has come out and said that this is a year and a half process before they could probably start winning consistently. Has called this year to point a process in figuring out who we will be running with in the future. Completely different process than what Karl was doing. Now you may not agree with this process which is fine but this IS what is going on. Karl was a dumpster fire. Under Joerger, they continue to play hard and buy in to what he's spinning. For fans, it can be frustrating for sure but I'm going to trust the process. This guy wins, so I'm all in with the guy.
Click to expand...
So with Karl losing the team and playing in a harder Western Conference the team still in the regular season managed to win more games than the current squad? I would say Karl overachieved than if everyone is playing hard for Dave and not Karl and we are still losing than.................
 
KingMilz said:
So with Karl losing the team and playing in a harder Western Conference the team still in the regular season managed to win more games than the current squad? I would say Karl overachieved than if everyone is playing hard for Dave and not Karl and we are still losing than.................
Click to expand...
I can appreciate where you are coming from but lets wait until the season is finished before comparing.
 
KingMilz said:
So with Karl losing the team and playing in a harder Western Conference the team still in the regular season managed to win more games than the current squad? I would say Karl overachieved than if everyone is playing hard for Dave and not Karl and we are still losing than.................
Click to expand...
Karl was a dumpster fire.....He was collecting a paycheck. You can be a fan of him if you want. I'll trust what Joerger is doing.
 
I think coaching is a secondary problem. Lack of Player personnel is by far more important. Kings are competing in many close games they still lose, but I think they need more talent at guard positions to begin with.

This year's team may not reach last year's record, but the fact is both teams are crud so it doesn't really matter.
 
Kingsfan23 said:
Joerger has been fail, and worse than Karl record wise so far. Karl at this point doesn't look bad, and justified with his record last year

Joerger needs to be held accountable for the record and his questionable decisions/rotations etc and not getting things done bottom line
Click to expand...

Don't look now but Kings are two games out of dead last in the West (with the mighty Suns and Mavs hot on our heels!) which is where I projected them by end of month around the holidays when others were talking naively about the 8th seed. Disconcertingly this performance is with veteran squad. If floundering with youth at least there would be upward trajectory to hope (bet) on. You can do NO worse than dead last playing old guys in win now mode. Well, unless you want to try to win now with old guys while simultaneously stripping the cupboard relatively bare of future assets through swap rights and unconditional picks.

This calls into question the judgement and trustworthiness of Joerger and Vlade, particularly with Boogie having the best season of his career. If this season is not an epic fail I don't know what is. Of course you can harp on terrible calls but what about one player going for 42 point and no one else sniffing double figures? What about everyone in the arena knowing last play was going to Boogie so the Bulls could send the kitchen sink? What about the underachievement up and down this roster that reflects pace, leadership, rotations, personality and personnel decisions by the coach and GM culpable for this inferior product?

Boogie is 10th in the NBA in Real Plus Minus at 5.5. Here's the company he's keeping:
  • Affalo -4.47 (433 out of 438 players)
  • Ben -4.30 (430 out of 438)
  • Willie -2.52 (363 out of 438)
  • Collison -2.38 (348 out 438)
  • Barnes -2.27 (334 out of 438)
  • Omri -1.68 (279 out of 438)
  • Ty Lawson -1.06 (220 out 438)
The first five guys are bottom 75% percentile of the NBA. All seven guys are bottom 50%. This leaves us with four guys in Top 50% with one of the guys done for the year.
  • Temple +0.06 (134 out of 438)
  • Koufos +1.13 (82 out of 438)
  • Rudy +1.99 (49 out of 438)
  • Boogie +5.50 (10 out of 438)
This is the roster Vlade assembled and mileage Joerger has squeezed out of them. The player turnover of last summer was for naught with same amount of turnover anticipated this summer. Who trusts this GM to do so successfully? I don't. I suppose he can get lucky with the right player falling in draft and capitalize on desperation of another team trade wise, but that's the extent of the credit I can grant. You have a coach trying to reconfigure the Grizzlies and a confounded GM discovering this job is not as easy as he thought it to be. Better ink Boogie to that contract before he changes his mind.
 
Last edited:
Bricklayer said:
Well this makes it all better:

http://official.nba.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2017/01/L2M-SAC-CHI-01-21-17.pdf

I am now as satisfied as DeMarcus with the way things played out.
Click to expand...

The code is CC for correct call but the comment infers otherwise. Total bullcrap.

Cousins (SAC) has his hand on Wade's (CHI) back while he is airborne, but he does not extend his arm and push him and the contact does not affect the shot attempt. 00:14.0 Instant Replay: Support Ruling CC
Click to expand...

EDIT: Never mind, their type setting is off (no surprise) the code is IC.
 
dude12 said:
A question for Joerger and Divac but I can speculate....seeing how Joerger operates in regards to young guys and how we have lots of short term and expiring contracts, I think Joerger follows the same theory as Popovich who also doesn't play young guys just to play them. I think they both follow the same philosophy that the rooks and young guys need to earn it and beat these vets out. I'm speculating but based on him saying its a year and a half process and his history with young players, I think this is what's going on.

We are halfway through the year and I believe he's gone through the process with Ben and Ben's time with Sac may be done. I think it's why we have seen WCS get some run and then also sit for DNP-CD's. Willie was been very active in the last couple of games....shows some moments of promise, but he has to play with energy and he has lately. I'm hoping for the last 40 games, Malachi gets some run and builds his minutes.

I'm down with this process, makes the young guys hungry for PT. I really think Ben got hurt in his career by being given minutes he never earned......we see what he's become.....very fragile and tentative mentally. I want to see our rooks play as much as anyone else but I'm going to trust the process in place.
Click to expand...

Sounds great and I wish we have Pop light too but I watch alot of spurs games and notice Pop plays young guys plenty, way more than Joerger and his vets are legit and not on their way out of the league. Some examples are Simmons last year, Bertans,Dejounte this year and he sprinkles in extended minutes for those guys when his vets are out.

My own theory is that with our vets being kinda desperate to stay in the league they pout and lash out when they dont get their time(see casspi, afflalo for some reason WCS and Ben at times) so in order to keep the locker room from becoming a dumpster fire he keeps those guys happy win or lose(mostly lose.) The rookies arent about to say anything as they are just kids.

Plus he has a playoff mandate from the owner, all of those expensive shops and restaurants in and around the arena need customers and most casual fans just hear the word playoffs and fill up the stadium and spend MONEY. So playing the vets as long as we have a mathematical shot at the playoffs is currently in his best interest.

This is where being a terrible organization shines.

Even though as the losses pile up its clear as day this roster has basically no shot at the playoffs its pretty dumb to be playing guys like barnes, toliver so many minutes over guys like skal and richardson. This season is a lost cause and this is valuable time to let the young guys get a feel for the nba and for us to see if we might have something there. Start building the foundation properly for once and you might one day be a contender. Do what your currently doing, trying to shortcut your way to an 8 seed is just spinning the wheels and making contention further and further away.
 
Blob said:
Don't look now but Kings are two games out of dead last in the West (with the mighty Suns and Mavs hot on our heels!) where I projected them by end of month around the holidays when others were talking naively about the 8th seed. Disconcertingly this performance is with veteran squad. If floundering with youth at least there would be upward trajectory to hope (bet) on. You can do NO worse dead last playing old guys in win now mode. Well, unless you want to try to win now with old guys while simultaneously stripping the cupboard relatively bare of future assets through swap rights and unconditional picks.

This calls into question the judgement and trustworthiness of Joerger and Vlade, particularly with Boogie having the best season of his career. If this season is not an epic fail I don't know what is. Of course you can harp on terrible calls but what about one player going for 42 point and no one else sniffing double figures? What about everyone in the arena knowing last play was going to Boogie so the Bulls could send the kitchen sink? What about the underachievement up and down this roster that reflects pace, leadership, rotations, personality and personnel decisions by the coach and GM culpable for this inferior product?

Boogie is 10th in the NBA in Real Plus Minus at 5.5. Here's the company he's keeping:
  • Affalo -4.47 (433 out of 438 players)
  • Ben -4.30 (430 out of 438)
  • Willie -2.52 (363 out of 438)
  • Collison -2.38 (348 out 438)
  • Barnes -2.27 (334 out of 438)
  • Omri -1.68 (279 out of 438)
  • Ty Lawson -1.06 (220 out 438)
The first five guys are bottom 75% percentile of the NBA. All seven guys are bottom 50%. This leaves us with four guys in Top 50% with one of the guys done for the year.
  • Temple +0.06 (134 out of 438)
  • Koufos +1.13 (82 out of 438)
  • Rudy +1.99 (49 out of 438)
  • Boogie +5.50 (10 out of 438)
This is the roster Vlade assembled and mileage Joerger has squeezed out of them. The player turnover of last summer was for naught with same amount of turnover anticipated this summer. Who trusts this GM to do so successfully? I don't. I suppose he can get lucky with the right player falling in draft and capitalize on desperation of another team trade wise, but that's the extent of the credit I can grant. You have a coach trying to reconfigure the Grizzlies and a confounded GM discovering this job is not as easy as he thought it to be. Better ink Boogie to that contract before he changes his mind.
Click to expand...

Good post, except I think no-one is untradeable on this team, including Cousins. They could wholly put in a new starting 5 and I wouldn't mind at all.
 
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