[Grades] Grades v. Suns 12/17/2012

[Bricklayer]

Agreed, we need patience, but maybe dolling out a bit of that patience to players like IT, Jimmer and T-Rob would be wise too.

You have patience with Cousins because he's a magical talent. Almost once in a generation for a big man as far as raw talent. So you wait, and trust the talent to win out. You can draft for the next 20 years and never do better. In fact we drafted for 25 years before he arrived, and never did.

But on a losing struggling team you don't just sit around and wait forever on random young guys in the hopes they grow talent they never had. Or in the case of all three of our recent draftees, physical traits they will never have. That does not mean they are all busts. Indeed I am not sure as Mr. Irrelevant Isaiah can ever be a bust. But it does mean that at the point you realize they are not going to be special talents, you can begin to treat them like any other asset. Are they helping us right now? Not really. Might they help us in the future? Well, maybe. Could we get something as good or better or more dependable back instead? Well, maybe. Few are desperately trying to trade any of them. But you gotta get a read and then react. Its something our front office has always been miserably slow at doing. Far too often by the time we realize we are with the wrong girl and ask out the beauty down the hall, she's already married and has 3 kids. And we are out of that kind of time. Continue to putter and the playoffless streak will very soon reach 10 years. And the Sacramentoless streak could very start right around that time as well.

 

[kupman]

You have patience with Cousins because he's a magical talent. Almost once in a generation for a big man as far as raw talent. So you wait, and trust the talent to win out. You can draft for the next 20 years and never do better. In fact we drafted for 25 years before he arrived, and never did.

DMC has potential, but this is really taking it a step or 2 too far. It sounds a little like Bill Walton hyperbole.

 

[Padrino]

DMC has potential, but this is really taking it a step or 2 too far. It sounds a little like Bill Walton hyperbole.

nope. brick is absolutely justified in his description of demarcus cousins' potential. name a single center in the nba with his raw and broad talent. can you name just one? dwight howard? please... dude shoots less than 50% from the free throw line. if demarcus fulfills his potential and becomes a franchise big man, you won't be able to "hack a cousins" because he shoots 77% from the stripe. andrew bynum? well, if he can ever get back on the court, i don't imagine he'll move with cousins' fluidity, or steal balls at the top of the key and outrun his man for the flush, or throw pitch-perfect outlet passes to streaking guards on the break, or stick open jumpers to help stretch the defense. now, DMC is not the league's best center, because he does not flash his seemingly endless supply of talent and unique basketball IQ consistently enough. but he has the potential to be the league's best center in another couple of seasons if he is properly developed and if he takes the personal initiative to improve. and the title of "league's best center" is always worth the patience it takes to get there. always. no hyperbole whatsoever...

 

[Warhawk]

nope. brick is absolutely justified in his description of demarcus cousins' potential. name a single center in the nba with his raw and broad talent. can you name just one? dwight howard? please... dude shoots less than 50% from the free throw line. if demarcus fulfills his potential and becomes a franchise big man, you won't be able to "hack a cousins" because he shoots 77% from the stripe. andrew bynum? well, if he can ever get back on the court, i don't imagine he'll move with cousins' fluidity, or steal balls at the top of the key and outrun his man for the flush, or throw pitch-perfect outlet passes to streaking guards on the break, or stick open jumpers to help stretch the defense. now, DMC is not the league's best center, because he does not flash his seemingly endless supply of talent and unique basketball IQ consistently enough. but he has the potential to be the league's best center in another couple of seasons if he is properly developed and if he takes the personal initiative to improve. and the title of "league's best center" is always worth the patience it takes to get there. always. no hyperbole whatsoever...

Agreed with this and with Brick. He has the capability and the desire. He just has to get the maturity and guidance he needs to channel that effectively.

 

[Npliam]

nope. brick is absolutely justified in his description of demarcus cousins' potential. name a single center in the nba with his raw and broad talent. can you name just one? dwight howard? please... dude shoots less than 50% from the free throw line. if demarcus fulfills his potential and becomes a franchise big man, you won't be able to "hack a cousins" because he shoots 77% from the stripe. andrew bynum? well, if he can ever get back on the court, i don't imagine he'll move with cousins' fluidity, or steal balls at the top of the key and outrun his man for the flush, or throw pitch-perfect outlet passes to streaking guards on the break, or stick open jumpers to help stretch the defense. now, DMC is not the league's best center, because he does not flash his seemingly endless supply of talent and unique basketball IQ consistently enough. but he has the potential to be the league's best center in another couple of seasons if he is properly developed and if he takes the personal initiative to improve. and the title of "league's best center" is always worth the patience it takes to get there. always. no hyperbole whatsoever...

Derrick Favors.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Derrick Favors.

Sounds like your team drafted the German center Sauer Graips. Perhaps you missed this part:

i don't imagine he'll move with cousins' fluidity, or steal balls at the top of the key and outrun his man for the flush, or throw pitch-perfect outlet passes to streaking guards on the break, or stick open jumpers to help stretch the defense.

 

[Kingster]

I should keep supporting TRob and Jimmer in this forum. They just had a good game while I was feeling the heat for asking to feed more minutes to these lottery-turned-garbage-time picks.

For the nth time this season, Smart just killed us for being not a "smart" coach.
Too much ISO in the 3rd killed us man.
The suspensions could already be getting into DMC too.
The guy is acting nice, which isn't really nice for the team. I want that bully DMC no matter how many suspensions he get.

This is supposed to be a bully team. Maybe Larry Brown can bring order here, even if most folks here don't really appreciate his history.
With 2 teams that he coached, he turned one of the smallest guy in Philly into a thug superstar, AI.
He even tolerated, Dikembe's finger.
And later he got the best in Sheed in Detroit for a ring along with a journeyman PG (with actually little natural PG instincts at that time) in Billups.

Larry Brown is an excellent coach. He's getting on up in years, though. Just don't know if he wants the aggravation.

 

[Npliam]

Sounds like your team drafted the German center Sauer Graips. Perhaps you missed this part:

Favors does all that(although some of those things he doesn't do as well) and is a much better defender than Cousins. He has just as much potential as DMC. I have watched both of them for almost every game for the last 2 seasons.

Brick is right though, DMC is a special talent and has great potential. I am afraid for Kings fans that he might need to change teams to realize his potential though.

 

[Spike]

Sounds like your team drafted the German center Sauer Graips. Perhaps you missed this part:

I thought he was Dutch:

 

[Hadlowe]

nope. brick is absolutely justified in his description of demarcus cousins' potential. name a single center in the nba with his raw and broad talent. can you name just one? dwight howard? please... dude shoots less than 50% from the free throw line. if demarcus fulfills his potential and becomes a franchise big man, you won't be able to "hack a cousins" because he shoots 77% from the stripe. andrew bynum? well, if he can ever get back on the court, i don't imagine he'll move with cousins' fluidity, or steal balls at the top of the key and outrun his man for the flush, or throw pitch-perfect outlet passes to streaking guards on the break, or stick open jumpers to help stretch the defense. now, DMC is not the league's best center, because he does not flash his seemingly endless supply of talent and unique basketball IQ consistently enough. but he has the potential to be the league's best center in another couple of seasons if he is properly developed and if he takes the personal initiative to improve. and the title of "league's best center" is always worth the patience it takes to get there. always. no hyperbole whatsoever...

The skillset you've just described, though, is lacking the one essential talent of all great centers. He has trouble around the rim. The reason that is important is because when you can score reliably in close, you get efficient points on the board.

Now, I absolutely think he will develop that post game to increase his shot percentage. Somebody mentioned Vlade as a role model in a previous thread. That's not bad, but I would say that Pau Gasol is an example of a man who lacks explosive leaping ability or athleticism, but has similar touch and skillset and a good feel around the basket.

In any case, it takes big men time to develop that feel for getting shots to go while getting your elbows and body smacked by NBA big men.

 

[jcassio]

Cousins has to stop getting smushed by every guy that isn't smaller than him. Guys like Ibaka, Gortat and Pekovic turn him into a weak player that can't finish inside. Cousins' FG% this game was ... far less than desirable.

He's absolutely MENTAL the way he keeps repeating this with the same results! A lot of people around here seem to think he's a smart kid, but he's not smart by any definition I'm aware of. Maybe people mistake his big-time potential for being smart. I see a player with head problems that seems destined to not learn from his mistakes. A player that will always be taken advantage of by smarter players. Cousins, smart? I don't think so. Talented? Absolutely.

Anyone remember Shawn Kemp? An incredible talent, but dumb as a post (or so said one of his teammates). But even Kemp didn't keep making the same mistakes over and over expecting a different outcome.

 

[Glenn]

He's absolutely MENTAL the way he keeps repeating this with the same results! A lot of people around here seem to think he's a smart kid, but he's not smart by any definition I'm aware of. Maybe people mistake his big-time potential for being smart. I see a player with head problems that seems destined to not learn from his mistakes. A player that will always be taken advantage of by smarter players. Cousins, smart? I don't think so. Talented? Absolutely.

Anyone remember Shawn Kemp? An incredible talent, but dumb as a post (or so said one of his teammates). But even Kemp didn't keep making the same mistakes over and over expecting a different outcome.

So you think intelligent people don't lose their tempers and the fact Cuz loses his temper shows he is not intelligent? That's just flat out wrong.

 

[The_Jamal]

You have patience with Cousins because he's a magical talent. Almost once in a generation for a big man as far as raw talent. So you wait, and trust the talent to win out. You can draft for the next 20 years and never do better. In fact we drafted for 25 years before he arrived, and never did.

But on a losing struggling team you don't just sit around and wait forever on random young guys in the hopes they grow talent they never had. Or in the case of all three of our recent draftees, physical traits they will never have. That does not mean they are all busts. Indeed I am not sure as Mr. Irrelevant Isaiah can ever be a bust. But it does mean that at the point you realize they are not going to be special talents, you can begin to treat them like any other asset. Are they helping us right now? Not really. Might they help us in the future? Well, maybe. Could we get something as good or better or more dependable back instead? Well, maybe. Few are desperately trying to trade any of them. But you gotta get a read and then react. Its something our front office has always been miserably slow at doing. Far too often by the time we realize we are with the wrong girl and ask out the beauty down the hall, she's already married and has 3 kids. And we are out of that kind of time. Continue to putter and the playoffless streak will very soon reach 10 years. And the Sacramentoless streak could very start right around that time as well.

While I agree we absolutely stay on the Cousins ship until it goes down in flames, you absolutely don't give up on young players like Trob, IT, and Jimmer so soon and write them off so soon in their careers. Not every rookie or young player comes into the league like a Kyrie, or Tyreke and takes the league by storm.

Jimmer has been one of our most productive players this season when he's been on the floor. He's been a lights out shooter and scorer albeit only in 12 MPG. Now, if we really wanted to develop him properly, we would be giving him 20+ minutes a game to see if he could continue his success. Instead, we're letting Aaron Brooks, who has been pretty terrible this season, take minutes away from IT and Jimmer thus running their development.

Same goes for Trob. He got extended looks last night playing with Cousins or JT in the frontcourt and responded with 6 points, 9 rebounds and a strong defensive night all around. He still made plenty of careless mistakes, but those will go away if he continues to get playing time with the right guys. Again, if we were going to develop him properly, he'd be getting 25+ minutes a game with a lot of time coming with the starters and with JT and Cousins as his front-court mate. Getting most of his minutes with Chuck Hayes and perimeter players who couldn't defend a pole isn't how you develop a young talented big.

 

[jcassio]

So you think intelligent people don't lose their tempers and the fact Cuz loses his temper shows he is not intelligent? That's just flat out wrong.

No, Glenn, I don't think losing your temper means you're not intelligent. But I do think that an indicator of intelligence is being able to learn from your mistakes. So to repeat your mistakes over and over, expecting a different result, is something else.
By the way, I don't see the world in black & white. So to me, the smart player or not question is a matter of degree. Cuz is not stupid, by any means. But he's not proved to me to be a smart player based on his repeated behavior.

 

[Glenn]

No, Glenn, I don't think losing your temper means you're not intelligent. But I do think that an indicator of intelligence is being able to learn from your mistakes. So to repeat your mistakes over and over, expecting a different result, is something else.
By the way, I don't see the world in black & white. So to me, the smart player or not question is a matter of degree. Cuz is not stupid, by any means. But he's not proved to me to be a smart player based on his repeated behavior.

If you consider controlling your temper as a measure of intelligence, than your first part makes sense. I don't think intelligence has a thing to do with controlling the temper except in the most minor of ways but then, what do I know. Cuz is not being asked to learn from his mistakes on an intellectual exercise.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

Cousins is starting to really dissapoint me. i thought at least if somehow the Kings had a nother bad season, at least Cousins would take a step forward and become an All-Star. but i guess not. this season is just a disaster

 

[mac]

If you consider controlling your temper as a measure of intelligence, than your first part makes sense. I don't think intelligence has a thing to do with controlling the temper except in the most minor of ways but then, what do I know. Cuz is not being asked to learn from his mistakes on an intellectual exercise.

Repeatedly trying to overpower someone you can't overpower in the post is not a matter of losing your temper though. It's just forcing to no avail. I disagree with jcassio though, I think that Cousins does learn from past experiences. The problem is that because he doesn't have a good post game, adapting to these bigger centers causes him to just stay outside chucking jumpshots like we saw him do against Pekovic and some others. So in that sense he's learning and adapting, but that doesn't necessarily equate to better results for us.

 

[Padrino]

Repeatedly trying to overpower someone you can't overpower in the post is not a matter of losing your temper though. It's just forcing to no avail. I disagree with jcassio though, I think that Cousins does learn from past experiences. The problem is that because he doesn't have a good post game, adapting to these bigger centers causes him to just stay outside chucking jumpshots like we saw him do against Pekovic and some others. So in that sense he's learning and adapting, but that doesn't necessarily equate to better results for us.

the question has been and continues to be: how do we get cousins easier shots? he's mobile for a young man of his size. his first step, in particular, is tremendously explosive. he shouldn't have to overpower every big he encounters in the post. i hate to beat the dead horse deader, but this, my friends, is a coaching problem. jerry sloan would have cousins running pick and roll in practice and in games with evans, fredette, salmons, or whoever else so often that DMC would be dreaming about rolling to the rim every single night of his life. just getting a few of those easier baskets would be enough to settle his frustration, to keep him in a rhythm. alas, keith smart doesn't seem interested in making demarcus a focal point of the offense outside of dumping the ball to him somewhere in the post so that he's forced into tough one-on-one situations...

 

[KingMilz]

the question has been and continues to be: how do we get cousins easier shots? he's mobile for a young man of his size. his first step, in particular, is tremendously explosive. he shouldn't have to overpower every big he encounters in the post. i hate to beat the dead horse deader, but this, my friends, is a coaching problem. jerry sloan would have cousins running pick and roll in practice and in games with evans, fredette, salmons, or whoever else so often that DMC would be dreaming about rolling to the rim every single night of his life. just getting a few of those easier baskets would be enough to settle his frustration, to keep him in a rhythm. alas, keith smart doesn't seem interested in making demarcus a focal point of the offense outside of dumping the ball to him somewhere in the post so that he's forced into tough one-on-one situations...

While I agree it is part of a coaching problem its also Cousins to blame and heres why:

a). A lot of the time when Cousins makes moves he doesn't go as hard as he needs to, which means contact knocks him off and often means he doesn't get a foul call. I don't buy this weight loss crap as a reason hes big and strong enough when he goes hard to finish over people and not get blocked

b). When he catches he holds and waits to much, he as soon as he gets it needs to make a quick move more often than not, much like Z-Bo (who is slower and has less length) does which means he becomes less predictable and the bigger slower centres are move likely to pick up fouls.

c). Hes not using his half hook enough nearly everytime I have seen him make a patient move and use that half hook its literally gone in 70-80% of the time I have no idea why he refuses to use it more often.

d). He needs to create easy buckets for himself we have enough guys that can't hit shots that if he positions himself consistantly under the bucket throughout the game he should be getting a ton of offensive rebounds with his insane ability to pretty much catch anything. To often he is ethier not positioned anywhere near the basket or stays at the top of the key not even running in for the offensive rebound. Hes averaging 30mins a game there is no reason even if he does not have the best cardio for him not to crash the glass on 99% of the time. He would get 2-5 extra buckets simply if he just did this hes a monster on the glass when he puts his mind to it and when hes willing to put the effort in.

 

[blackice]

I know it's early in the season, but I just hope Cousins isn't pulling a Tyreke and regressing after the league has some tape on him. Now while a lot of his game is predicated on jump shots and put backs at this point, he really isn't put in the best position. How often I see him establish position down low with his man pinned and the guards just don't pass it to him. He also needs to fight for position more often and stop with the whole high post bull crap, I hate it.