Grades v. Spurs 11/9/2012

Pts/Rebs/Fuglies -- who had the most head slappers tonight.

  • Cousins

    Votes: 5 20.0%
  • Evans

    Votes: 8 32.0%
  • Thomas

    Votes: 5 20.0%
  • Brooks

    Votes: 1 4.0%
  • Thornton

    Votes: 2 8.0%
  • Hayes

    Votes: 1 4.0%
  • Cisco

    Votes: 2 8.0%
  • Outlaw

    Votes: 1 4.0%

  • Total voters
    25
  • Poll closed .

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#1
Fugly!!!



Taking the self inflicted wound meme to new heights, from the coaches on down to the 12th man, this was going to be fugly no matter who won it. Alas we did not, and it was there for the taking.

Highlights via kingsflix:

Boxscore

Stats: 21min 9pts (3-6, 0-0, 3-4) 5reb 0ast 2stl 0blk 4TO
Johnson ( B ) -- a bright point as he had the strongest game of the young season. Was not perfect as there was still some real slop with the ball, and just dumb pass attempts resulting in obvious TOs. But lots of effort, and found out something surprising in that he could get aroudn his man with relative easy and the Spurs lane was not closing as he rumbled down the lane for layups and dunks. Our defense was much better when he was on the floor as he again made a number of effort plays trying to keep us breathing in that 2nd quarter mess. Lost far too many minutes on the night to guys he should not have lost minutes to, and our lineup balance issues were obvious when JJ, who was right there as effective as anybody else on the squad on the night, watched the 4th quarter fade from the bench and only notched 21min on the night. Of course then again, at the rate he was handing the Spurs the ball, he might have had 10 TOs had he played big minutes.

Stats: 38min 17pts (7-10, 0-0, 3-4) 6reb 1ast 2stl 1blk 0TO
Thompson ( B+ ) -- stood out, way out, for again being the guy playing within himself and playing efficiently. The irony that JT is now our efficient playing within himself rock is enormous. Got off to the quiet start, but hit a smooth long jumper after Cousins went out, and as the second quarter turned into a debacle, was about the only King doing anything in the later stages of the half. Was sittting on 10pts at half, so we then came out of the lockerroom and called the play for him to start the third...at which point he promptly airballed the 16 foot jumper. It was that kind of night for the whole team. Followed that by missing a Cousins pass for a turnover. But maybe got lucky when DeJuan Blair smacked him in the mouth later in the quarter, as JT responded very well, playing very actively and highlighted by a strong spinning move through 4 Spurs (its in the highlights). Was playing well enoguh that he got a lot of the 4th quarter minutes, but may have blown his chance to prove he should have them every night, as he got very quiet when we needed him to continue his strong play. Rebounding remains a bit of a concern as well. Just hasn't been hitting the boards thus far this season, and it was only another 6 in 38min tonight. Jason's 8.9 rebs/per 48 thus far in the season puts him at #158 in the NBA, tied with Kyle Lowry in between Kawhi Leonard and Matt Barnes, and still trailing Tyreke.

Stats: 23min 14pts (4-14, 0-0, 6-7) 9reb 3ast 1stl 0blk 2TO
Cousins ( C- ) -- sigh, these foul trouble games are tough to grade. The fact is that DeMarcus Cousins is averagng 27.7pts 15.6reb per 48 min right now this season. Dwight Howard is averaging 27.8pts 13.2reb per 48. The problem is that every other game DeMarcus is lucky to get half that many minutes. This was one of those too where the early fouls that pinned him weren't in the course of good action. Had one big early highlight,as he is thriving with our new defensive strategy of having our bigs show up top and deny and got another one of his steals and full court gallops, finishing with a dunk+1 over Green. But little ticky mistakes, and one time Tim Duncan abruptly getting clumsy and falling down and Boogie getting called for being nearby and not helping a senior citizen, were the story fo the night. With Tim Duncan having recently drunken from whatever elixir of youth that Nash has been sipping from for years (and let's hope that is just a turn of phrase rather than something like the other sports have dealt wth) it was going to be a battle all night anyway. But once the fouls quickly piled up -- Boogie got fewer than 10 min before half -- we barely got to see the matchup with both guys able to play hard. Got called for his 4th foul fighting hard and playing good physial defense on Duncan. But at some point there both we and he just seemed to say screw it, and we started to run iso post sets with Boogie on Duncan, and let's just say that he wasn't shy about contact. Took an amusing page straight out of Shaq's book after he found that Duncan can still smother you in the post, and twice just lowered his shoulder, sent Duncan flying, and stepped through to lay it in. If that's back in the NBA rulebook, Boogie is going to be a monster. Otherwise though, even when he got the step on Duncan and got to the rim, was again having problems squeezing it on up and finishing those opportunities. The other way, as mentioned Duncan looks like 2005 Duncan right now, and Boogie was no more than decent on him in the early going, then had to stick his hands his pockets in the midgame, and finally got loose and sloppy as the game got away from us and watched Duncan get several easy ones late. So more big per minute productivity (14pts 9reb 3ast in 22min), but lacking minutes, and what got the minus here is that his scoring consisted of 1 steal and breakaway, 2 things that could have been offensive fouls, and 1 late jumper, mixed around 10 flubs and missed finishes.

Stats: 33min 12pts (5-13, 0-2, 2-2) 6reb 3ast 1stl 0blk 1TO
Evans ( C ) -- first of all, the defining trait of this early season has reached a stage here where its really not about Reke having a good jumper a poor one -- you can see in game after game rihgt now he has NONE. Which is a mental thing not a physical thing. Right now its been so long since one has fallen through that you can see it playing with both his head and the opponents', who are just collapsing back in a huge way and invitiing him to shoot. On the other hand he has no confidence in it and all and doesn't want to shoot it, but feels like he has to. In the early going of this one the Spurs did the collapsing thing, but Reke did not force anything, and the result was a very quiet early game. Not accomplishing much offensively, but doing no harm if you will. Think he had 2pts 2rebs at half, and was kicking the ball around rather than forcing stuff, save for one spin move into heavy traffic immediately after returning in our lousy 2nd quarter. And that was a recurring theme -- we needed soemthign there, so he pressed the issue and tried to create, although it was a mistake. Similiarly, after we lost Cuz in the 3rd one more time we saw the step up response as he got much more aggressive, if not much more efficient. That was the period when much of both the good and the bad of his game took place, as he startign attacking into heavy traffic, and trying to take those offered jumpers and give us a spark. He did, but there was no long stretch of dominant play, and he was missing as often as hitting. Rebounding and general energy picked up at the same time, got his hands on several balls creating steals, and in general was an aggressive player. After returning for the stretch run did not do much other than hit one tough drive that was probably a bad decision. Threw up a final bricked half assed three at the final horn I think just hoping to see that ball go through the basket. Haven't mentioend the defense much here because its beocming pretty much a constant at this point -- had nobody much to guard, but nobody he did guard did much. So another night of contributing across the board, except as a shooter where he is just nonexistent right now.

Stats: 29min 10pts (3-11, 1-5, 3-4) 4reb 2ast 1stl 0blk 3TO
Thomas ( D+ ) -- well, a game with a lot of flavor. Most of it not good flavor, but at least there was a lot to talk about. Struggled mightily in the early going on offense, missing shot after makeable shot , adn then getting a timeout called and a chewout from Smart after he tried to dribble through 4 Spurs and turned it over to break a run that had put us up 13-10. Continued throwing up brick after brick, many of them on openish jumpers, until he finally broke his streak when he came up with a layup high off he glass in the mid third to cap a big surge and give us the lead back. Felt there was a little more energy/physicalness to his game tonight than he's had early this season, and against a Tony Parker apparently slowed by the flu his defense was good. Unfortunately Tony Parker did have the flu, which means that Pop threw Patty Mills on the floor. And that got ugly as for some reason, call it the Barea effect, Mills (averaging 1.5ppg coming in) just lit IT up. Just killed him to the tune of 8-9 shooting and 18 points in 21min (not all on IT, but most). Part of it being a nasty habit IT has developed of leaving his men open aroudn the 3pt line and then trying to run back to recover when they get the ball. Except he's 5'9", and they are paying him no attention at all. And Mills was all over him the other way too, as he matched IT's quickness and didn't allow us to get into sets. Isaiah returned at the 3 minute mark with Brooks not effective leading us. Got fouled and hit both, but then one more time gave Mills the wide open corner three, and after forcing a drive resulting ina TO the game was effectively over. Got a little padding when he finally hit a three off ball movement with 1:00 to go -- his only hit on a 1-5 night from out there. Despite the poor game I'll had a + here for the Parker defense, suspect as Parker may have been tonight with the illness.
 
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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#2
Bench

Stats: 19min 0pts (0-5, 0-2, 3-4) 1reb 2ast 0stl 0blk 0TO
Brooks ( D ) --and back down the erratic hole again as Brooks swung back to struggling. Still trying to figure out who this offense, whatever it may be, is benefiting. Was forcing drives again, although used one to hit MT for a 3 in the early going. Bad effort on our final shot of the first as he just chucked a 25 foot three off his dribble, but he hustled back to take a charge as the Spurs tried to break out, and really his hustle was his saving grace tonight. Had another good hustle play scooping up a long rebound on defense and flipping it forward over his shoulder to a streaking MT on the break. But hustle or not, wasn't hitting anything, and we just didn't get much of anything out of the offense with his as the main creater. For the second game in a row replaced for the final minutes, this time by IT.

Stats: 28min 17pts (7-17, 2-6, 1-3) 4reb 3ast 0stl 0blk 0TO
Thornton ( C+ ) -- led us in scoring, and the numbers look respectable, but his game was really definied by missed opportunities and it would be hard to call this a good game. Uncharacteristically just missed big shot after big shot through the game. Seemed to always be the guy with the ball when we needed the three or got out on the break, and just missed almost every one of those. Not just random shots, but momentum turners. He hits them we soar, but just mysteriously flubbed many of them, and you could just feel the air being let out of the arena. Was shaky with his early defense (get your hands up on Neal!), but hit a key early three at the end of the 1st after the Spurs had caught back up. Got several more baskets just getting out on the break, and made several nice looking hesitation dribble moves, none of which actually led to points. But disappeared under piles of random junk off our bench, and went quiet as our second quarter struggles peaked. When he returned in the third missed a wide open little jumper off a Spurs loose turnover that we needed. Then after hitting a layup on the break,a ndmissing the +1 FT, he badly bricked a wide open three on a great kick by Reke that would have put us up, and added a loose foul on Duncan to close the quarter. But partially made up for it with the closing layup of the quarter. Continued the same pattern in the 4th, missing so many easy little layups and jumpers, including another big three we needed at the 4:30 mark. We needed the points we got out of him, but it was the ones we didn't that stick in the mind when pondering how we lost this one.

Stats: 25min 2pts (1-6, 0-0, 0-0) 7reb 3ast 0stl 0blk 1TO
Hayes ( C ) -- last of the non-stupid/random subs off the bench, and the randomness of the people he was often surrounded with was a problem. Turned it over on his first high post pass asttempt, and started the second in a ridiculous lineup where our best option was to throw it to Chuck for a 1 on 1 post attempt. but got a better pass to a cutting MT. Steadier in the third defensively in place of Cousins, and went through a solid stretch of defense on Duncan. Finally scored on a pick and roll in the early 4th, but again that was the problem -- we were running offensive sets for Chuck Hayes in place of Cousins, and that rarely worked on a 1-6 night with several highlights where you were thinking dmanit, if that as Cousins.... Was solid on the glass this time, and added a nice little tipout on the defensive boards to Brooks when he couldn't reach it himself.

Much Coach Driven Stupidity to Follow:

Stats: 8min 2pts (1-4, 0-0, 0-0) 0reb 1ast 1stl 1blk 0TO
Cisco ( INC ) -- missed an early jumper, then another as things fell apart. Came up with a nice saving block under the rim in the mid 2nd for his highlight, and finalyl hit a jumper at the 6:30 mark just before leaving.

Stats: 7min 0pts (0-2, 0-0, 0-0) 1reb 0ast 2stl 0blk 0TO
Outlaw ( INC ) -- soon to be featured on an incompetence Demotivational poster as he added to his 8-32 shooting start to preseason/the regular season (where he's 2-10). Did little again, surprising nobody but his coach. Outright airballed his first jumper. Broke up an interior pass but then ran back the other way and blew the follow layup just before leaving for Cousins.

Stats: 5min 2pts (1-2, 0-1, 0-0) 0reb 0ast 0stl 0blk 0TO
Fredette ( INC ) -- got lit the **** up after entering, and then chucked up a ridiculous 30 foot brick when we were in trouble. But kept this from being a complete waste when he got a drive and layin at the 1:00 mark of the half for his only points.

Stats: 5min 1pt (0-1, 0-0, 1-2) 0reb 0ast 1stl 1blk 0TO
Salmons ( INC ) -- first action of the season replacing Reke in the early 4th, and was the only one of the random subs to not completely suck. Of ocurse for him to suddenly make his first appearance iof the season in the early 4th of a tight winnable game against an elite oppponent after every other mmeber of the bench had been throwin in there in the 2nd made no sesne whatsoever, but at leadt John did not compound it by sucking. Got fouled on a hard drive soon afer entering and split the FTs. Badly missed a little jumper a minute later off a screen, which fit right in with the team meme tonight. But came up with a good defensive block from behind diving down on defense, and going forward that will be the hope. 10 man rotation, Hayes behind Cuz, TRob behind JT, Salmons playing defense behind JJ, MT, and Brooks behind Reke and IT. Who knows, maybe Salmons reinvents himself as the glue. Or more likely a vicious fight for the ball breaks out on court between Brooks, MT and Salmons, and they all dislocate their shoulders as they each try to throw up a shot at the same time.

Random Scrub Collective Totals: 25min 5pts (2-9FG) 1reb 1ast. Awesome.
 
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#3
So Smart says the lineups are going to be like this "every night, the rest of the year... because it's going to be hard to get all these guys in." He sounds pretty bad during this interview on why he is playing a particular lineup.
 
#4
On Salmons "I wanted to get him into the game, after having travel time, after not having time to practice... I just wanted to get him onto the floor."
 
#7
On Salmons "I wanted to get him into the game, after having travel time, after not having time to practice... I just wanted to get him onto the floor."

I'd take Salmons any day over the ghastly Travis Outlaw. Hell, Salmons in my opinion has a more solid all-around game (handles, defense) than Jimmer.

We fought hard in this game. And that is the difference between this years and last years team. We have taken a step forward. Although we are still going to be one of the worst 4-5 teams in the West, and I don't know if we can legitamately expect to beat the Spurs yet, even at home. If we keep progressing, hopefully in the future

Also, didnt see the boxscore but the crowd looked to be a healthy size
 
#9
So Smart says the lineups are going to be like this "every night, the rest of the year... because it's going to be hard to get all these guys in." He sounds pretty bad during this interview on why he is playing a particular lineup.
Ya thats not how you coach a team in the NBA. jesus. he acts like hes coaching the local 4th grade rec league where he needs to get every player minutes and give them all a snack and a drink after the game or the parents will get mad
 

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#10
Good coaches ignore the issue of hurting feelings and some might be upset if they don't play. Did I miss the rule which says you must play everyone?

I don't think Smart has the cojones to tell players they're on the outside of the planned rotation, and it's probably connected to it appearing that he's afraid to define roles. I've never seen a coach talk to so much about needing to play everyone. Just comes across as him being scared.

We're 2-4, we haven't made the playoffs since the 06 season, since when are we so good everyone has to play? Much, much better teams than us don't go 10-12 deep in a game let alone by the 2nd quarter. Which other coach would be so concerned with making sure Cisco/Salmons/Outlaw/Jimmer as the 9-12th on the pecking order get minutes?

An aside, our defense was great the first four games. It went south around the same time Smart started playing smaller lineups, IT/Jimmer or Brooks/Jimmer together with MT at SF, and Chuck the tallest on the floor. Of course that's not the only reason our defense has suffered the past two, but I doubt it's a coincidence.
 
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#13
I'd take Salmons any day over the ghastly Travis Outlaw. Hell, Salmons in my opinion has a more solid all-around game (handles, defense) than Jimmer.

We fought hard in this game. And that is the difference between this years and last years team. We have taken a step forward. Although we are still going to be one of the worst 4-5 teams in the West, and I don't know if we can legitamately expect to beat the Spurs yet, even at home. If we keep progressing, hopefully in the future

Also, didnt see the boxscore but the crowd looked to be a healthy size
'Healthy size' for Arco Arena #1.
 
#14
Good coaches ignore the issue if hurting feelings and some might be upset if they don't play. Did I miss the rule which says you must play everyone?
Smart's pressor tonight pretty much proved he shouldnt be an NBA head coach. if nothing is done soon i dont know how much longer i can stand watching this team coached by him, so frustrating. his rotations are getting worse than i ever imagined.
 
#15
4th quarter of a close game against a great team, perfect time to do that.................. WOW
The reporter who asked him said something to the effect of "...I know you have a rule about not playing guys who haven't played early in the game..." but Smart still wanted to get him in... breaking his own rule... dumb.
 
#16
It doesn't matter if Smart plays an 8 man rotation or a 15 man rotation. We aren't winning games shooting 6-36 from the perimeter and 19-59 from our 5 best offensive scorers. This game was 100% winnable, even with Smart's crap rotations in the 2nd and the defensive collapse in the 2nd and 4th. It's astounding how many easy, wide open looks we gave away tonight
 
#18
I'd take Salmons any day over the ghastly Travis Outlaw. Hell, Salmons in my opinion has a more solid all-around game (handles, defense) than Jimmer.

We fought hard in this game. And that is the difference between this years and last years team. We have taken a step forward. Although we are still going to be one of the worst 4-5 teams in the West, and I don't know if we can legitamately expect to beat the Spurs yet, even at home. If we keep progressing, hopefully in the future

Also, didnt see the boxscore but the crowd looked to be a healthy size
Sure, play Salmons. But don't put him in cold at the end of a tight game after playing two others ahead of him. Anyway you try to spin it there is ZERO reason you should lose a game where you get 20 more shot attempts than the other team largely in part to 20 turnovers. Simply atrocious.
 
#19
It doesn't matter if Smart plays an 8 man rotation or a 15 man rotation. We aren't winning games shooting 6-36 from the perimeter and 19-59 from our 5 best offensive scorers. This game was 100% winnable, even with Smart's crap rotations in the 2nd and the defensive collapse in the 2nd and 4th. It's astounding how many easy, wide open looks we gave away tonight
It does matter. You can keep trying to ignore it or you can be realistic about it. Poor shooting nights happen, other teams getting hot happens, having a bad rotation should NOT happen. This is something you can have all drawn up before the game. You put your team in the best position to win. Sometimes you may not win due to poor shooting nights, but that is not an excuse for messing up the rotations so bad. They are two separate issues you are combining.
 
#21
It doesn't matter if Smart plays an 8 man rotation or a 15 man rotation.
if he played an 8-9 man rotation (and the right 8-9 players for that matter) we are 5-1 or 4-2 right now. every game was winnable. and every game has had huge deficits caused directly by his rotations
 
#22
It does matter. You can keep trying to ignore it or you can be realistic about it. Poor shooting nights happen, other teams getting hot happens, having a bad rotation should NOT happen. This is something you can have all drawn up before the game. You put your team in the best position to win. Sometimes you may not win due to poor shooting nights, but that is not an excuse for messing up the rotations so bad. They are two separate issues you are combining.
What lost us the game? Getting outscored 23-12 in the 2nd because of poor rotations? Or 6-36 on jumpers and 19-59 from our 5 top offensive scorers?

Smart's rotations contributed to this loss. The point I'm making is we very easily could have overcome all that went wrong in this game by simply making wide open jumpers; something we haven't done all year
 
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#23
What lost us the game? Getting outscored 23-12 in the 2nd because of poor rotations? Or 6-36 on jumpers and 19-59 from our 5 top offensive scorers?
yup, hit the nail right on the head.

and not only is it killing the games, but its got a bigger effect in the long run. killing the players, they have no idea what the heck to expect as far as when they will play. its ridiculous
 
#24
What lost us the game? Getting outscored 23-12 in the 2nd because of poor rotations? Or 6-36 on jumpers and 19-59 from our 5 top offensive scorers?

Smart's rotations absolutely contributed to this loss. The point I'm making is we very easily could have overcome all that went wrong in this game by simply making wide open jumpers; something we haven't done all year
Both. One is in a coaches control, one is not. What is it you are missing here?
 
#25
man its too bad we always get screwed in the Draft Lottery. imagine if we had gotten Davis this year. or even better, imagine if we had gotten Irving the year before. That man is pretty amazing. Kyrie as our starting PG, ya ill take that
 
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#26
Both. One is in a coaches control, one is not. What is it you are missing here?
Nothing. I'm just perplexed as to why I haven't seen anyone else address the shooting issues. Smart's rotations shouldn't have such a profound effect on our guys that they can't make wide open jump shots or easy put-back lay-ups. We don't win this game with a perfectly coached game from Smart
 
#27
It seems to me that Tyreke hasn't made a jumpshot since the Chicago game...if he has then it sure doesn't seem like it. What happened to putting all that hard work in? Another thing...I'm still perplexed how bad Cousins is at finishing inside, where's a mini hook or a go to move that won't get blocked? Lost 20 out of 22 to SA now...-_-
 
#28
You can't say "Smart's rotations contributed to this loss" and also say "It doesn't matter if Smart plays an 8 man rotation or a 15 man rotation." Obviously, it matters. And from the outside view, of people who are not caught up in picking sides, the easiest and most realistic fix is to better the rotations. You can have solid rotations every night, you are not going to have solid shooting every night.
 
#29
Nothing. I'm just perplexed as to why I haven't seen anyone else address the shooting issues. Smart's rotations shouldn't have such a profound effect on our guys that they can't make wide open jump shots or easy put-back lay-ups. We don't win this game with a perfectly coached game from Smart
You don't see people addressing shooting issues because it is not something we can fix! Rotation is something that *we* can fix.

edit: Fixing the "offense" though is another matter, and we have been addressing those issues. And we talk about them often.