[Grades] Grades v. Rockets 12/15/2013

[Fear the Putin]

While its true that Rudy has never been this good he's also never played along side another dominant player that commands double teams. I think Rudy could play the best ball of his career for the kings.

Randolph

 

[Hadlowe]

Randolph

Randolph is a helluva player, but he doesn't have the all-around skillset Cousins does. At his best, Cousins is a better passer, shooter and rebounder than Randolph. Cousins' ability to step out to the 15-18 foot range and knock down open jumpers means his man needs to cover him at the elbows which frees up the lane for Gay to drive. That alone should boost Gay's efficiency.

 

[Hadlowe]

Quick question for the stats folks. Prior to the trade, had Jimmer logged any minutes this season at the point guard? My recollection is hazy, but I think he only ever played with IT or Vasquez on the floor.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Quick question for the stats folks. Prior to the trade, had Jimmer logged any minutes this season at the point guard? My recollection is hazy, but I think he only ever played with IT or Vasquez on the floor.

These stats can be found at www.82games.com (for some reason I can't get the link function to work so here's Jimmer's URL: http://www.82games.com/1314/13SAC4.HTM#5man).

Normally it only gives the top so-many lineups but as Jimmer has only played in 14 lineups so far this year. It looks like Jimmer has played 3 minutes this year at PG (of his first 72, he's up over 100 now but 82games hasn't updated). However, that lineup has Luc in it so it was definitely before the trade.

 

[ppine]

Two games is hardly enough info to rate Gay. I agree that he makes the game look easy. The team now has three consistent scorers for the opposition to worry about.

The Rockets have one of the most potent offenses in the league, and the Kings held them to 16 points below their season average at 91 points. That was the key to the game. Malone was pretty pissed after watching his team give up well over 100 points to the Jazz and Suns. The team responded and the win looked really good. Our defense bothered the Rockets.

 

[Chubbs]

Randolph is a helluva player, but he doesn't have the all-around skillset Cousins does. At his best, Cousins is a better passer, shooter and rebounder than Randolph. Cousins' ability to step out to the 15-18 foot range and knock down open jumpers means his man needs to cover him at the elbows which frees up the lane for Gay to drive. That alone should boost Gay's efficiency.

Is cousins better? Yes. But Randolph was a 20/12 guy and could also hit open jumpers. Rudy was with Randolph in his peak years, one all star year.

Point is, he's definitely played with a dominant post player, mid range jumper taking kind of guy. That's pretty much what Randolph was at that time.

It's not about boosting his efficiency, it's getting it back to what it was in Memphis with Randolph by matching him with cousins.

Rudy is better with this kind of player. The fact he's done it before successfully is a reason to like the move.

 

[Fear the Putin]

Randolph is a helluva player, but he doesn't have the all-around skillset Cousins does. At his best, Cousins is a better passer, shooter and rebounder than Randolph. Cousins' ability to step out to the 15-18 foot range and knock down open jumpers means his man needs to cover him at the elbows which frees up the lane for Gay to drive. That alone should boost Gay's efficiency.

No I understand. But, he mentioned Gay not playing with anybody who commands double teams.

You can't cover Zach 1 on 1 inside

 

[Uncia03]

IT was as good as we could ever hope. I think not shooting in the first quarter, while it did remind me of something Kobe would do in response to criticism (which brick pointed out in his grades) did have the desired effect. A win! IT has to pick his spots. He's certainly going to get enough minutes to do that. I think part of his me me me mentality came from thinking if he didn't put up points quick, he'd be back on the bench. That's definitely not the case now. Hopefully the coaching staff made that very clear.

Rudy is everything he was not supposed to be through two games, almost going too well. I love it, but he's not a 56% shooter. Only Lebron does that. I'd be thrilled with 45% when this all plays out. To guy hoping the shooting stays above 50 for rudy, be realistic man. He's never been a 50% shooter.

I wanted to bring attention to the bolded section in regards to IT's current play/role on this team because I think that it's really important.
If IT is going to be getting 42+ minutes a game then he has the luxury to play a facilitating role when both Cousins and Gay are on the floor and move into a more dominant scoring role when one of those two head to the bench. I think that as long as he can navigate that and keep the proper mind-set then we'll see more games like the one he just played.
However, this has to be a short-term situation.
There is no way that the Kings can risk having essentially no back-up PG. IT is going to wear down if he's forced to play that many minutes and you need someone who can come in and give a minimum of 12-15 minutes a night. It looks as if Malone doesn't feel comfortable with Jimmer or Ray, so we have to expect bringing in another PG in the near future. And if we bring in that guy, and that guy is a bench player who ends up reducing IT's minutes down to 30-35 a game the question will be 'Will IT still be able to play the facilitator when his 'scoring' minutes are reduced'?
We'll have to see how this plays out, but for the short term if IT continues to get that many minutes and has the mindset that he had last night then things should work out well enough.

I also wanted to echo the thoughts on Rudy Gay. His play for the first two games couldn't have been better. I'd love for the shot selection to remain relatively decent, but it will be all but impossible for him to continue shooting at such a high percentage because players usually can't maintain that level for huge stretches. With that said, I'd be perfectly happy for him to prove me wrong, because if Gay can shoot around 50% along-side Cousins shooting close to 50% then it would be difficult to find a better Duo in the league at the moment, especially a Duo that includes a dominant big.

 

[Chupacabra]

While its true that Rudy has never been this good he's also never played along side another dominant player that commands double teams. I think Rudy could play the best ball of his career for the kings.

Correction; Rudy Gay has never played ongside someone who commands as much defensive attention as Cousins. BOOYAH!

 

[Hadlowe]

No I understand. But, he mentioned Gay not playing with anybody who commands double teams.

You can't cover Zach 1 on 1 inside

Fair enough.

 

[The_Jamal]

I thought what was great about last nights game was our 4th quarter offense and how IT-Rudy-Cousins all sacrificed their "me" mentality and worked to get each other great shots. And it really threw Houston for a loop because they all of a sudden had to worry about stopping 3 guys as opposed to just packing the paint against Cousins. It wasn't gimmicky type of offense either where we chucked a bunch of 3s or got transition hoops.We saw legitimate half-court set-ups where we'd let Gay create in a PnR, post up Cousins, get Cousins the ball at the high-post to create, IT penetration and dishing out to a shooter or cutter.

 

[Kingster]

I don't see any way IT plays 40-42 minutes on a consistent basis. He'll get worn down mentally and physically with those kind of minutes. I'd really like to see Jimmer, Gray and Gay on the floor at the same time for 12-15 minutes a game. Gay AND Gray can take pressure off of Jimmer in a point guard role. Gay because he can be a point forward. Gray because he's great at setting screens and he can get Jimmer open. With Gay and Gray on the floor Jimmer becomes more of a shooter and has much less pressure as a ball handler.

 

[Chubbs]

The jimmer fans just aren't going to let it go, are they?

If he has a future in basketball, it's not here. They play him out of necessity for now. There has to be another move for a legit backup pg soon before IT breaks down. There's gotta be a d league guy out there. His minutes need to get down to 30-35 as uncia points out. Short term, he may be ok. We will see how he holds on this road trip if help doesn't come soon. We haven't really had a schedule where there have been many back to backs. That's about to change.

I don't want to lose Mighty Mouse to injury cause we mistook him for Super Man.

 

[jcassio]

Rudy's game makes me think of Rodney McCray, who hasn't even been mentioned among the Kings best small forwards. But McCray was well-rounded and made the game look easy. He made his teammates better. He was a Point Forward before most people knew what it meant. If the Kings hadn't gone into total rebuild mode after his first full year with the team, he likely would have been the Kings SF for several years.

 

[Bricklayer]

Rudy's game makes me think of Rodney McCray, who hasn't even been mentioned among the Kings best small forwards. But McCray was well-rounded and made the game look easy. He made his teammates better. He was a Point Forward before most people knew what it meant. If the Kings hadn't gone into total rebuild mode after his first full year with the team, he likely would have been the Kings SF for several years.

If the Kings hadn't traded away Otis Thorpe to get McCray they probably wouldn't have had to go into full rebuild mode in the first place.

 

[yeehee]

Wow I'm surprised some of you have him ranked #1... I like Gay but that opinion will probably change in a few months.
Come on... Peja had better numbers as a second/third option and when Peja was the first option he was definitely better than Gay.

 

[ElRey]

I think the team will continue to improve once they get more acclimated to each other and have more practice. So many new players. Mclemore seems to struggle in chaotic team situations, ie Summer League, big player/lineup changes. He seems to do better when things are more settled. Hopefully he'll get more comfortable again once the changes settle in.

 

[jcassio]

If the Kings hadn't traded away Otis Thorpe to get McCray they probably wouldn't have had to go into full rebuild mode in the first place.

I recall that a lot of Kings fans were not happy with that trade, and it was supposedly made because Thorpe wanted a max contract.
Other than Thorpe being an iron man (17 year career compared to McCray's 10 years), I'm not sure that I agree with your assertion that Thorpe was a better player than McCray! But having them both on the Kings at the same time would have been sweet - assuming they were in their prime and not in their twilight.

 

[VF21]

Must have been a REALLY good one game.
Did he drop like 50?
I'm all aboard the RG bandwagon I've been bragging about his acquisition all week
but this is the most reactionist poll I've ever seen.

Whatever. You didn't see the game so you cannot possibly understand how much of a difference having Rudy out there made to the rest of the team.

It might have been beginner's luck - his first game at STA, etc. - but it was incredible. And it wasn't solely because he had a good game, which he did, but because he helped make the guys around him better, and that's what it's all really about.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

I think the team will continue to improve once they get more acclimated to each other and have more practice. So many new players. Mclemore seems to struggle in chaotic team situations, ie Summer League, big player/lineup changes. He seems to do better when things are more settled. Hopefully he'll get more comfortable again once the changes settle in.

Great point. One of things that may have fallen into this "chaotic" category,..is being on the floor at the start of the game. Seems like it was maybe too much to shoulder. He was noticeably better off the bench

 

[Bricklayer]

I recall that a lot of Kings fans were not happy with that trade, and it was supposedly made because Thorpe wanted a max contract.
Other than Thorpe being an iron man (17 year career compared to McCray's 10 years), I'm not sure that I agree with your assertion that Thorpe was a better player than McCray! But having them both on the Kings at the same time would have been sweet - assuming they were in their prime and not in their twilight.

Thorpe was a young 20-10 guy at the point we traded him. McCray was Chandler Parsons.

 

[Siranthony]

What a great game from almost start to finish. This is what I've been talking about. This team can be as good as almost anyone THIS
YEAR. We can push for the playoffs. Maybe we wont make it but we can try.

I am also surprised with Acy and Grey. They appear to be better than what we sent away to get them. Great job in the front office!

We are thin at guard. I like the way Thompson is playing. But if we can fill the whole at guard trading Thompson and Jimmer than of course we should do it.

 

[The Hammer]

Whatever. You didn't see the game so you cannot possibly understand how much of a difference having Rudy out there made to the rest of the team.

It might have been beginner's luck - his first game at STA, etc. - but it was incredible. And it wasn't solely because he had a good game, which he did, but because he helped make the guys around him better, and that's what it's all really about.

Peja also couldn't pass, see the floor, rebound, defend, or get to the hoop like gay. At all. It's no contest, other than the sentimentality factor causing people to vote Gay #2.

This was a fantastic trade and will go down as one of the best trades in Kings history. And it could not have come at a better time.

And for those who keep bringing up the point about "all these guys need shots"... is ridiculous. Did the dream team not work cause they all needed shots? That's what a good coach and culture focused on winning take care of! You just get guys with talent, that can play a team game (i.e., pass), and they'll get to know each other and learn to play off each other.

Also, since I'm on the topic, it seems IT can pass... he just didn't like to do it much because he believed in himself more than anybody else out there... with good reason.

 

[rainmaker]

Wow I'm surprised some of you have him ranked #1... I like Gay but that opinion will probably change in a few months.
Come on... Peja had better numbers as a second/third option and when Peja was the first option he was definitely better than Gay.

Question wasn't about numbers. Question was about talent.

Peja was clearly a better shooter. Better floor spreader. But, Gay is a better 1v1 player, ball handler, better in the post, better at creating off the dribble for himself or others, better in transition and a better defender although Peja was underrated on that side. And this goes off Rudy's career, not last night.

Will Rudy ever have the success Peja had, as a 2nd/3rd option on a top 3 team? Remains to be seen, but that is not the topic here.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Wow I'm surprised some of you have him ranked #1... I like Gay but that opinion will probably change in a few months.
Come on... Peja had better numbers as a second/third option and when Peja was the first option he was definitely better than Gay.

So you say. I say that there has never been a player in the Sacramento-era history of the Kings more overrated than Peja Stojakovic, and that includes Billy Owens and Jimmer Fredette.

Numbers don't equal talent: Mike Bibby had better numbers than Jason Williams; who was more talented?

 

[pshn80]

What a great game from almost start to finish. This is what I've been talking about. This team can be as good as almost anyone THIS
YEAR. We can push for the playoffs. Maybe we wont make it but we can try.

I am also surprised with Acy and Grey. They appear to be better than what we sent away to get them. Great job in the front office!

We are thin at guard. I like the way Thompson is playing. But if we can fill the whole at guard trading Thompson and Jimmer than of course we should do it.

On Thompson, I'm not sure I agree with you. Of our three scorers none match JT's FG% and he is going to be better because of the new team around him. His "Mr. Steady" becomes better and more important with this new, volatile crowd around him. Keep him for the time being and see if these signs, effects continue. No hurry on the new PG. Let's wait and see and make the right move if necessary. In the meantime test both Jimmer and Ray and pay the price (in poor play) that we have to see what develops.

 

[HndsmCelt]

So you say. I say that there has never been a player in the Sacramento-era history of the Kings more overrated than Peja Stojakovic, and that includes Billy Owens and Jimmer Fredette.

Numbers don't equal talent: Mike Bibby had better numbers than Jason Williams; who was more talented?

And so we expose the importance of BB IQ, and lets make no mistake Ruddy has it.

 

[Bricklayer]

And so we expose the importance of BB IQ, and lets make no mistake Ruddy has it.

You know, speaking of basketball IQ, it occurs to me that we now are looking for both a backup PG/pure PG as well as a long athletic shotblocker up front, and it occurs to me that Denver, the former team of our gerbil in chief, happens to have both those things in Andre Miller and Javale McGee...

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Why would Denver take anything we've got for either Miller and/or McGee? They're already flush with what we want to trade.

 

[HndsmCelt]

You know, speaking of basketball IQ, it occurs to me that we now are looking for both a backup PG/pure PG as well as a long athletic shotblocker up front, and it occurs to me that Denver, the former team of our gerbil in chief, happens to have both those things in Andre Miller and Javale McGee...

Now we just have to convince them they NEED a chucker or two.