Grades v. Rockets 04/09

Which of these potentially available players would you want on the Kings next year?

  • Amare Stoudemire

    Votes: 10 13.3%
  • Chris Bosh

    Votes: 25 33.3%
  • Gilbert Arenas

    Votes: 3 4.0%
  • Baron Davis

    Votes: 3 4.0%
  • Allen Iverson

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Vince Carter

    Votes: 1 1.3%
  • Marcus Camby

    Votes: 1 1.3%
  • Chris Kaman

    Votes: 5 6.7%
  • Ron Artest

    Votes: 4 5.3%
  • none of them

    Votes: 23 30.7%

  • Total voters
    75
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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Just remember boys and girls, Rick Adelman can't coach defense.

Theme? Let's see...another one of these semi-blowouts. Competetive through 2 1/2 quarters, then the Rockets put the pedal down and outscored us by 22 after half for the 17 point win...is that Pretty Girls? I do like Pretty Girls. Or my Historical Turning Points thing? What about Polymaths? Something whimsical? Me think on it.

Alright, given time constraints I'm going to go with something easily accessible as the theme. Many of our members already muck around in the Personnel section debating the merits of various potential Kings, but I know these threads attract a lot of people not that hardcore, so for them and in light of our current situation, the theme = Meet Your Future Kings (In all Liklihood One of These Guys Will Be Wearing Kings Purple Next Year)


Nocioni ( C+ ) -- Noc was obviously in a tussel he could not win this time out. Artest was shooting over him in the early going, and Noc didn't get much of anything going the other way. Guess you could say that he was making Artest into more of a jumpshooter than an inside player, but when said jump shooter is lighting you up to the tune of 26pts on 10-18 shooting, maybe you shoudl have made them into an inside player instead. Largely shut out through three quarters, and then got the bulk of his numbers in the late going. Can't quite call what we did one of our normal futile charges -- we never got enough momentum going to call it a charge. But we cut their 18 point lead down to 13 a couple of times, so whatever that is, that's what we did, and Noc was largely the main guy. Hit a three, drove the right side for a +1 conventional 4pt play, got to the line etc. But it didn't matter by that point, and I'm going wiht the bulk of this grade for how he did while the game was still on.
[yt=Blake Griffin Mix]re0yWFsNtQ0[/yt]
Blake Griffin
Pos: PF
Hgt: 6'10"
Wgt: 251lbs
For those who have been living in a cave for the past 6 months, Blake Griffin was the player of the year in the NCAA this year, averaging 22.7pts and 14.4rebs for the Oklahoma Sooners. He's strong, lively, athletic, runs the floor, and is relentless...on offense at least. Defense? Well that was another story. There is some question whether he is truly 6'10" or not, so the measurements at the draft camp will be interesting. But unless he measures out at 4'8" it seems a pretty safe bet he will go #1 in this draft. If we get the #1 pick, this is probably the guy you will see on the Kings next year unless we pull off a draft day trade for a guy who doesn't play Jason's position.


Thompson ( B ) -- this was a tale of two halves for Jason. Started off very fast, getting follow finishes seemingly every time down the floor as the Rockets (Scola in particular) repeatedly left him to challenge players with nobody rotating down to keep him off the glass. Dominated the first half matchup against Scola, and had something like 14pts 8rebs by the break. And that was while sitting out a chunk of time with 2 fouls. But then halftime came, and somebody in the Rockets lockerroom -- obviously not Rick or Elston Turner since we know that they can't coach defense -- made a few adjustments, and Jason might as well not even have come out after the break. Was checked off the glass, and with that weapon removed, could get almost nothing going. Meanwhile Scola woke up and in his own ugly shuffling way spun the tables nearly entirely around on Jason, dominating the offensive glass and the matchup throughout the 3rd and 4th. Jason still ended up with 16 and 10, and I'm holding his grade up because of it, but one thing -- the 8 offensive rebounds were fun. Nice work in that first half and a major factor in us being ahead at the break. But where was he on the defensive glass? 6'11" guys are supposed to be able to grab more than 2 defensive rebounds for you.
[yt=Ricky Rubio Mix]12FOZsjWxwk[/yt]
Ricky Rubio
Pos: PG
Hgt: 6'4"
Wgt: 180lbs
Its been on again off again about whether hot Spanish prospect Ricky Rubio was going to declare for this draft or not (the problem being he has a nasty buyout clause in his current contract in Europe). But now it appears he is in, and that adds a lot of intrigue for a team like ourselves with a high pick and an opening at PG. Rubio is one of those passing savants -- we've all seen that before when we had one in Jason Williams. The passes he makes (check out the mix), you don't teach that. Its a gift. He's got good size (heightwise) at 6'4", great vision, and he actually tries on defense. People have been excited about his potential for several years now. But he's still very weak by NBA standards, is a poor shooter, and the question is whether he will be athletic enoguh to make an impact in the NBA. Much will be determined by his private workouts I am sure, but if we are picking #2 or #3, don't be surprised at all if this is the guy.


Hawes ( A- ) -- started off the game scoring comfortabley from the outside vs. Yao, and the confidence seemed to bleed over to everything else he was doing. Yao was flat and had nothing, and Spencer badly outplayed him before the break. We were sending all kinds of help of course, but it was still Spencer doubling him up statistcially. Continued to look very comfortable on offense against Yao right through the third quarter, but Yao came out to paly after half and started to overwhelm Spencer inside on offense as the Rockets pummeled us wiht their inside out game. By the end it was a statisitcal draw, although Spencer did take 10 extra minutes to get there. But 22 and 11 on 10-17 shooting vs. 20 and 9 on 10-17 shooting. Which you will still take BTW. A statistical draw vs. Pau followed by a statistical draw v. Yao on back to back nights. That works. Of course he did not slow either guy (Yao for a half) and our defense remains nonexistent, but jsut being able to compete and hurt the other team back the other way is promising. One thing that should have been isntructive last night -- Spencer had a good game and hurt the Rockets. But like most of our players, he just got his hoops. Meanwhile Yao of course is the centerpiece of the offense in Houston and not only got his own numbers, but picked us apart with kickout passes. One of those things Spencer is yet to learn -- being a great post scorer is not the same thing as bieng a great post player.
[yt=Hasheem Thabeet Mix]5GFC5892OTs[/yt]
Hasheem Thabeet
Pos: C
Hgt: 7'3"
Wgt: 263lbs
See the number next to the Hgt column? Yes, there is a 7'3" center available in this draft. And not just a 7'3" center, but one of the most talented and sophisticated shotblockers I have seen, at any height, at any level. He's really special, blocks with both hands, rarely fouls, and just dominated college basketball this year defensively. Throw in that he is also just about the most atheltic 7'3" guy I can remember since maybe back in the days of Ralph Sampson 25 years ago and its a no brainer right? Well, maybe yes. Maybe no. His offense is largely limited to dunking, there have been questions raised about his strength and ability to deal with much smaller mobile guys, and his motor is sometimes questioned because he sometimes seems to loaf up and down court. Nonetheless, while we are a franchise that has seemingly completely forsaken defense, it would be shocking if Thabeet was not at least brought in for a workout as a potential defensive anchor if we are in the #2-#5 range.


Cisco ( B- ) -- impressively racked up 9 early points against Battier as we bolted out of the gate, although Battier scored right back at him (Battier's offense though almost entirely consists of standing out at the three point line waiting for Yao to kick it to him, so saying that Battier was scoring back is pretty much just saying that Cisco was drifitng off of him at the perimeter). Battier began to lock in though, and Cisco just dispapeared in a long armed shadow from the second quarter onward, popping up only to stroke a couple of long threes. Note that on a night when Spencer and Jason combined for zero blocks, Cisco, Noc, and McCants took care of the duties, with cisco notching 3 of them.
[yt=Brandon Jennings Mix]FVw1YxEE9RQ[/yt]
Brandon Jennings
Pos: PG
Hgt: 6'1"
Wgt: 170lbs
A great wildcard in this draft, if you watch that mix (particularly later on when they begin to get to his ballhandling/passing skills) you will see a ridiculously athletic ballhandling wizard of a prospect. A 6'1" 170lb PG who can go between his legs for the tomahawk dunk, go behind his back at full speed and drop the no look pass, and in general make just about every spectacular play there is. But the question with Jennings is whether he can make any of the simple ones, whether he can run an offense, and whether he is mature enough to be the floor general for a pro team. There is a lot of streetball in this kid. And we didn't get to see much of him this year as he took an eyebrow raising route, skipping college (shaky test scores) to try to go play in Europe as a pro, but only receiving sporadic playing time. So you can see the talent, but you just do not know. Given that Geoff once drafted JWill, anything is possible, but I suspect workouts will tell the tale for Jennings.
 
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Udrih ( B- ) -- this is a fairly easy one to grade, but a difficult one to describe, because Beno in this one was steady as rain. He scored 4 points early, took most of the second off, scored 4pts in the 3rd. Scored 4pts in the 4th. A little pullup here, a little layup there. Did come on a bit down the stretch with some little hits, but it was pretty much the same stuff all game long. He won the battle at PG. He was steady. He avoided the turnovers. He did not matter. hH averages 11pts 3rebs 5ast ont he season, he gave us 12pts 4rebs 5ast in this one.
[yt=James Harden Mix]ABw4d_sw1M0[/yt]
James Harden
Pos: SG
Hgt: 6'5"
Wgt: 2189lbs
A do it all shooting guard that was Pac-10 player of the year, that position (SG) is the first of the questions for Harden. As in, what would we do with him if we already have Kevin? The second question centers around his athleticism -- if you watch the mix you will see that he is a decidedly average athlete, and how that is going to translate to the NBA is somewhat questionable. In college though he was kind of in that Kobe/Wade/Roy class as a do it all SG -- the guy who not only scores, but rebounds, passes, defends and fills up all columns of the statsheet. So that's the hope and the promise with Harden. That maybe he can be a smaller Paul Pierce, or anew Mitch Richmond. A below the rim player who just gets it done in all categories.


BJax ( C- ) -- could not hit his shots in the first half but held his own against fellow bowling ball PG Kyle Lowry. Got chippy in the third quarter as Brooks became a factor and all Bobby could come up with against his old backup was a forced three in the final seconds of the quarter. Finished the night clinging to respectability, but not hitting his shots and not helping in his minutes out there.
JordanHill-vs-ShaunGreen-n-KimTillie.jpg

Jordan Hill
Pos: PF
Hgt: 6'10"
Wgt: 235lbs
A player who, even in this wacky internet age when there is about a 50/50 chance you can find a video clip of your grandma skinny dipping out there on the web somewhere, lacks a decent mixtape, Hill is respectd but not revered. Most mock draft boards expect him to maybe go Top 5, but he is sort of the solid low ceiling top 5 pick. A guy who would maybe be a #10-#12 pick in a stronger draft year. His comparisons range all the way from a Chris Bosh type to a Chris Wilcox type to a Rony Turiaf type. Has good quickness, good size, and while the Bosh stardom predictions are unlikely, a solid NBA big ala Wilcox is distinctly possible and a complete washout unlikely. Nobody's talking about him, but if we are not the #1 with Griffin and decided to go big, he's the better rounded but less impactful alternative to Thabeet.


McCants ( C- ) -- off the bench passing well in his early minutes, but as he settled in was unable to get his own offense going again. Got lit up by Von Wafer, which ain't a great recommendation, and while he contributed a handful of his normal scrappy plays, including a block, he didn't seem to have many offensive answers this time and settled too often for long chucks from beyond the arc.
[yt=Stephen Curry Mix]0F92bAtdo-s[/yt]
Stephen Curry
Pos: PG
Hgt: 6'3"
Wgt: 180lbs
Son of longtime NBA shootist Dell Curry, Stephen has certainly inherited his father's shot. Range = basically unlimited. Question will be is he enough of a PG to be able to run an NBA team? Is he going to be able to defend anybody at the NBA level? Given the one man team thing he had going at Davidson in college, is he another Douby? Another Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf? Would he and Kevin shoot teams into oblviiin, or just form the softest, scrawniest backcourt in the league? Unfortunately all of the mixes of him out there are heavily focused on his 3pt shooting rtaher than playmaking or defense, and he played a ta small school not often on national TV. So apart from his NBA pedigree, hard to answer these questions.


Greene ( D ) -- smoothly stroked his first jumper and you were thinking maybe carryover from last night, but then spent a lot of time on the floor not getting much done and was flumoxed by the rockets stubby tweener forward reserves.
 
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I sort of like order they're listed. Amare is just such a talented big man overall with his ability to play the 4 or 5. I wonder if Shaq is not in Phoenix next season what Suns would be like if they lost both. It's such an old team with Nash aging gracefully and amazingly Grant Hill played every game this season - probably first time that's happened in his great career.
 
I like Bosh too, but age was not a factor for me in voting for "old man" Amare over him, since there's only 16 months difference in the ages.
 
None.

Every single one of them at best leads us to 35 win PRESTIGE!

We are in a hole no one outside of LeBron or Superman could fill. No retreads. We need to go the way of the Blazers and pretty much redraft the team or go away.
Rubio or Griffin or BUST.
 
Ron Artest.:D

Just make the poll the theme, it'd be fresh and something we haven't done yet. Discuss what it'd take to get each and the benefits/downsides of each player.
 
Just remember boys and girls, Rick Adelman can't coach defense.

Theme? Let's see...another one of these semi-blowouts. Competetive through 2 1/2 quarters, then the Rockets put the pedal down adn outscored us by 22 after half for the 17 point win...is that Pretty Girls? I do like Pretty Girls. Or my Historical Turning Points thing? What about Polymaths? Something whimsical? Me think on it.


grades to follow...

But he sure can take over teams with defensive essentials already taught by another coach! :p
 
But he sure can take over teams with defensive essentials already taught by another coach! :p

They're not the same team.

Yao is the only one left that can be credited to JVG. Hayes doesn't play, and Battier is the same player he was in Memphis and at Duke.
 
But he sure can take over teams with defensive essentials already taught by another coach! :p

Odd that I do not remember the Luis Scola, Ron Artest, Aaron Brooks, Von Wafer, Carl Landry, Kyle Lowry era under JVG. Those being 6 of the 8 rotation players for Houston.

The Rick can't coach defense thing is a B.S. excuse by a franchise that has made a lot of them in recent years. It flies directly in the face of history -- not only Rick's, but our own as well. Unless of course he magcially took over somebody's defensive principles as we became a top defensive team in the early years of this decade. There is no need to parrot the company line any longer -- the company is defunct. There is no need to parrot discredited columnists any longer -- they won't have a job before long. The B.S. is over, and there is a clear and unequivocal winner in the Rick vs. the Kings debate, and its not us. Its the guy closing in on 900 wins and in the COY race.
 
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Hawes winning the tip over yao :eek:!!

least that proves that hawes has at least a 5 inch vert

lets do a video game console through the years theme lol
 
Judging solely from the first 3 videos posted only, I'd vote Rubio, though really, it feels like we'd need all 3 guys to make a real difference
 
Great theme Brick..

I'm with Mookie, is there a way we can just get all 3? :o

But I have officially moved to the Griffin fan club.
 
I'd be happy with Thabeet and Rubio. That would be a really fun team to watch even if we had to trade Martin to get one of the them and we solve both our interior defense problem and our point guard problem.
 
I ultimately want Rubio, but not sure whether he can get out of his Euro contract. If that's the case, I want Jennings, but not at 1 or 2. If we get the 1 or 2, I say at least try to trade down to 3 or 4 and get Jennings.
 
I like them all except Rubio. He looks like a 90lb weakling. If the Kings are committed to Kevin then there is no way they can also draft Rubio.

BTW not to jinks things but I love how Kevin's sore ankle is keeping him out of games. The Kings in their current incarnation are too good for "worst in the league" with Kevin in the lineup.
 
In the poll my choice was "none of them".

With Kevin where do we play Iverson, Arenas or Carter if any would EVER come out to SacTown under any conditions? (And they still only allow one ball in play at a time)

With Hawes and JT where do we play the bigs in the list if the Kings really are developing our two "kids"? Maybe Camby would be a good mentor and show them how defense really is played but would he come off the bench?

Under the best of circumstances, and that only includes the top 10-15 ranked clubs in the NBA, these guys are going to a sure or likely playoff team.

Bricks game grades right on this time. It is obvious now that the younger Kings don't really yet have the ability to adjust at halftime to the equally obvious adjustments that will be made by the opposition. They seem to play the 3rd like the 1st and when that doesn't work, they shoot too much and too quick then put their tail between their legs and try to play. But the tail keeps getting in the way...................... ahhh you all know the rest.
 
that ricky rubio highlight reel...just...wow. reminds me of the ultra-fluid, super-passing kings of the golden era. if we don't take blake, this is a pick that i can at least look forward to seeing in games, and it's been a long time since i could say that.
 
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