[Grades] Grades v. Pistons 1/1/2013

[HereWeBoogie]

Neither Garcia nor Hayes were even the most overpaid player in the building tonight. Corey Maggette is making eleven million dollars.

Maggette would help the team more than Garcia does

 

[Bricklayer]

Pathetic how everyone's given up on Trob already with how many excuses are made for Cousins and Reke on a regular basis. Those guys were able to showcase their talent because the team gave them a chance to. Trob is being treated like a scrub

How Drummond is being handled is EXACTLY what you do to get a young big acclimated to the NBA. He's not asked to do anything offensively, he patrols the paint as a goalie, and he's playing minutes against back-up bigs and gets Playing time with a lot of the Detroit starters. In short, he's being put into situations where he can play to his strengths and gain confidence against NBA talent.

Trob on the other hand has this to deal with:

Highly inconsistent minutes
Very limited time with our best players
Coaches haven't defined his role on the team

Look, its clear you (and we) missed on TRob, and you are going to have to start to back away a bit. He hasn't failed for any of the above reasons. He's failed because he's just not very good at this point. Drummond was always the better NBA prospect. Had the incredible physicality this level demands, and had a heart of his game that could absolutely translate. So getting him minutes is easy. In fact you aren't "getting him" anything. He's probably been their best big this year. If anything they are artificially holding him back, not artificially pumping him up.

TRob on the other hand has a lot of work to do, and reinventing himself is at the core of it. Maybe he will. Maybe he won't. But until he does and he settles into and accepts the role, its going to be ugly. He took himself out of this game again. Nobody else did. He did. Andrew Drummond has the size and phsyciality and game to play exactly the way he wants to and to be very valuable doing it. TRob's instincts on the other hand pull directly against his best interests. No coach, no system, nobody wants him forcing offense like he continues to insist on doing. Not even our own idiot judging from how quickly TRob gets pulled anymore.

P.S. Detroit fans have been annoyed with Frank all year long for NOT playing Drummond with Monroe/their starters. instead he's been in almost a platoon, coming off the bench for a terrible team to anchor random teammates. The difference is that his game is simple to execute, and he has the phsyical traits to execute it. He knows what he is out there to do, and does it very well. Its never going to be as simple for Trob because he doesn't have the size. But it can and should be a lot simpler for him than he's making it right now.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

One of the Analysts on NBATV said during the highlights that "Charlie V will start the new year off with a suspension and a healthy fine" lol.


he also said that Austin Daye got away with a "hop skip and a jump" on the 3 pointer that sunk the kings at the end.


what a BS game.......

 

[KingMilz]

Damn I just watched the game than looked at the box score and how Cousins only had 2 assists is beyond me, I was really impressed by his passing imo he passed as well in this game if not better than he did vs Boston. Bench showed up late but it was a bit to late. Imo we should look to trade Brooks once Evans comes back let IT be the PG, let Jimmer shot more (dribble less).

 

[The_Jamal]

Look, its clear you (and we) missed on TRob, and you are going to have to start to back away a bit. He hasn't failed for any of the above reasons. He's failed because he's just not very good at this point. Drummond was always the better NBA prospect. Had the incredible physicality this level demands, and had a heart of his game that could absolutely translate. So getting him minutes is easy. In fact you aren't "getting him" anything. He's probably been their best big this year. If anything they are artificially holding him back, not artificially pumping him up.

TRob on the other hand has a lot of work to do, and reinventing himself is at the core of it. Maybe he will. Maybe he won't. But until he does and he settles into and accepts the role, its going to be ugly. He took himself out of this game again. Nobody else did. He did. Andrew Drummond has the size and phsyciality and game to play exactly the way he wants to and to be very valuable doing it. TRob's instincts on the other hand pull directly against his best interests. No coach, no system, nobody wants him forcing offense like he continues to insist on doing. Not even our own idiot judging from how quickly TRob gets pulled anymore.

P.S. Detroit fans have been annoyed with Frank all year long for NOT playing Drummond with Monroe/their starters. instead he's been in almost a platoon, coming off the bench for a terrible team to anchor random teammates. The difference is that his game is simple to execute, and he has the phsyical traits to execute it. He knows what he is out there to do, and does it very well. Its never going to be as simple for Trob because he doesn't have the size. But it can and should be a lot simpler for him than he's making it right now.

Clearly, you don't know what "patience" is. But I'm pretty much finished with this argument. We've gone back and forth in several threads about Trob and clearly neither will change our minds on the subject. I don't understand why you're writing off Trob as a potential star player after 30 games when it's plainly obvious he's still acclimating to the NBA game. But hey, to each his own.

Also, there's a reason Frank is a head coach and NBA fans are NBA fans. Drummond is an incredibly limited player skill wise and would be exposed in heavy minutes. Right now, he's having success because he's basically been told to just go be athletic, block a few shots, and clean up messes on offense. He has terrible footwork defensively and no offensive game to speak of at the moment. He's being developed how a young big should be developed. We're doing that exact opposite with Trob

We'll just have to see how it all turns out, but I still stand by Trob being a better player 3 years down the road than Drummond.

 

[steelevt]

Clearly, you don't know what "patience" is. But I'm pretty much finished with this argument. We've gone back and forth in several threads about Trob and clearly neither will change our minds on the subject. I don't understand why you're writing off Trob as a potential star player after 30 games when it's plainly obvious he's still acclimating to the NBA game. But hey, to each his own.

Also, there's a reason Frank is a head coach and NBA fans are NBA fans. Drummond is an incredibly limited player skill wise and would be exposed in heavy minutes. Right now, he's having success because he's basically been told to just go be athletic, block a few shots, and clean up messes on offense. He has terrible footwork defensively and no offensive game to speak of at the moment. He's being developed how a young big should be developed. We're doing that exact opposite with Trob

We'll just have to see how it all turns out, but I still stand by Trob being a better player 3 years down the road than Drummond.

he might have the tools to be better down the road, but if he never gets playing time or is misused by smart, we might never know

 

[The_Jamal]

he might have the tools to be better down the road, but if he never gets playing time or is misused by smart, we might never know

Both of which are happening right now. But for some reason don't matter for his development

 

[UK_King]

Jimmer would take heat whatever he did.

the anti Jimmer noise is just as, if not more annoying than the "jimmer is a 10 time all star in the waiting" nonsense.

 

[panda]

Hard choice in the poll today because there is no way to predict how Drummond or Knight would be handled by Smart. Chances are, had Monroe been drafted instead of Cousins, that Smart would never have been named coach.

 

[Entity]

we NEVER not once saw a lineup that was successful against Boston. that lineup of Thomas, Salmons, Johnson, Thompson, and Cousins. Thompson sat waaaaay to long while Johnson and Outlaw were playing.

 

[Bricklayer]

Other than one early ridiculous 3 I don't recall any bad forced shots, especially down the stretch when it was kinda him who hit some big shots to keep us in the game. Had that one bad drive that got blocked by Drummond in transition that resulted in a Monroe dunk the other way. But in terms of "hero ball" I don't quite see how you can blame Jimmer .. Who else was on the floor in the 4th that he should have been deferring to? Cousins who came in at the 1:30 mark?

Or are you referring to this 1 play, with us down 3 where he had a decent look but could have passed it off to JT?

Sorry Brick, I can't agree with you on Jimmer this time round, not in terms of "hero ball" at least. While he didn't do much in the first half he played a big part in bringing us back. If anything this is on Smart for not getting Cousins back in earlier. As far as 4th quarter goes, Jimmer played fine by my books.

I went back and relooked at 12 of the 18 second half minutes Jimmer got. The final 6:19 of the third quarter, from when he entered the game until the end fo the quarter. And then the final 6 minutes of the game. I would have done the intervening 6 minutes as well, but I had time issue of muy own. I mapped out everytime Jimmer touched the ball, how long he had it, and the end result.

here's what we got:

Third quarter
6:19 Jimmer enters
5:47-5:40 (7 seconds) jimmer gets the ball, dribbles aroudn for 7 seconds. we TO
5:22-5:18 (4 seconds) jimmer advances the ball on the break and passes to Cuz. Cuz scores.
4:37-4:37 (1 second) offensvie rebound follow, mises shot, we get off foul
3:06-3:04 (2 seconds) passes, we miss shot
:47-:46 (1 seconds) shoots, Cuz tip slam follow

Fourth quarter (second half of it)
6:22 = when I started mapping again
5:38-5:36 (2 seconds) shoots+hits three
4:59-4:55 (4 seconds) drivbes and fouled+hits 2 FTs
3:07-3:07 (1 second) catch and shoot three
-------------------------------------<--- beyond this point we score 4 pts. 1 forced FG, 2 forced FTs.
2:37-2:31 (6 seconds) series of moves for tough flip in trafic, hits
1:51-1:43 (8 seconds) dribbles aroudn in circles looking for opening, foreced to pass, we get 24sec violation
5:38-5:36 (3 seconds) drive and tough floater in traffic, ignored JT ont he pass

Now, we had exactly 1 assist in the final 6 minutes, and that was Brooks hitting Jimmer for that 3ptr at 3:07. Otherwise the passing dried up. Our playing style changed. And when I say Jimmer went into hero mode its because he did. He did the same thing a couple of weeks back during Isaiah's big second half. Look at his possessions for the rest of the half, and make them or miss them they are quick hitters. Quick decisions. Catch and shoots, whatever. Now you watch his possessions down the stretch and all of a sudden it changes. All of a sudden he catches the ball, and its not a quick hitter. Its not a shot if open a pass if not. Intead its Jimmer as hero, dribbling around looking for a way to force something up. Hit or miss its low percentage ball stopping. And it contributes, does not solely cause, but contributes to the entire offense falling out of rhythm.

Not about Jimmer vs. world or Jimmer vs. detractors. About Jimmer vs. himself. There was good Jimmer knocking down shots in rhythm as soon as he caught the ball. And then there was bad Jimmer, dribbling around like a chicken with its head cut off looking for ways to hear the roar of the crowd. Same jersey, different game and effect on the team. And of course the timing of the appearance of headless Jimmer was not accidental. Hero ball. Trying to win it himself. His first possession of the second half looked like that. His last 3 all looked like that (ignoring the desperation duck and under three at the buzzer). None of the stuff inbetween did. Small sample size of course, but for what its worth we scored on 5 of 7 possessions when good Jimmer made quick decisions to shoot or pass. We only scored on 1 of 4 where bad Jimmer was looking for himself, and that score was on a tough tough shot.

 

[UK_King]

On the "Series of moves for a tough flip" he's given the ball at 10 seconds remaining in the shot clock. So Aaron brooks pounded the ball for 14 seconds and did absolutely nothing.

On the second possession of that crucial stretch he's given the ball with 13 seconds on the shot clock. (this is his first touch of the possession btw.) So Aaron Brooks held the ball for 11 seconds.

When he collects JT sets a weak screen for him then saunters back to the post, he doesn't pop out for a pass or dive to the hoop he does nothing, he gets it to JJ with 7 seconds on the shot clock who gets into the lane but he's blocked. Ho hum. Ok maybe he gives it up a couple of seconds earlier but the offense had died, absolutely no movement what so ever. Whoever he passed to would have gone one on one. (but wouldn't have been criticised)

In those two crucial possessions we ran the same play twice which were clearly run to get Jimmer the ball, last season he wasn't "agressive enough" according to some, this season he's a "selfish" "hero baller." The fact of the matter is you could do a similar breakdown for every player on this team and come up with some way to paint them in a negative light, which plays actually lose you a game? Is it the missed open 3 in the first quarter or a missed 2 to tie in the last second? You could find a way to say that any player on the roster "lost us a game" by finding one bad shot or one bad turnover somewhere or other, but more often than not it's Jimmers name that pops up.

Jimmer is held under immense scrutiny thats not really applied to anyone else for some reason.

suffice to say he went 3-3 from downtown in the 4th and was 4-6 from the field with 1 assist and no turnovers.

 

[ESP47]

I went back and relooked at 12 of the 18 second half minutes Jimmer got. The final 6:19 of the third quarter, from when he entered the game until the end fo the quarter. And then the final 6 minutes of the game. I would have done the intervening 6 minutes as well, but I had time issue of muy own. I mapped out everytime Jimmer touched the ball, how long he had it, and the end result.

here's what we got:

Third quarter
6:19 Jimmer enters
5:47-5:40 (7 seconds) jimmer gets the ball, dribbles aroudn for 7 seconds. we TO
5:22-5:18 (4 seconds) jimmer advances the ball on the break and passes to Cuz. Cuz scores.
4:37-4:37 (1 second) offensvie rebound follow, mises shot, we get off foul
3:06-3:04 (2 seconds) passes, we miss shot
:47-:46 (1 seconds) shoots, Cuz tip slam follow

Fourth quarter (second half of it)
6:22 = when I started mapping again
5:38-5:36 (2 seconds) shoots+hits three
4:59-4:55 (4 seconds) drivbes and fouled+hits 2 FTs
3:07-3:07 (1 second) catch and shoot three
-------------------------------------
2:37-2:31 (6 seconds) series of moves for tough flip in trafic, hits
1:51-1:43 (8 seconds) dribbles aroudn in circles looking for opening, foreced to pass, we get 24sec violation
5:38-5:36 (3 seconds) drive and tough floater in traffic, ignored JT ont he pass

Now, we had exactly 1 assist in the final 6 minutes, and that was Brooks hitting Jimmer for that 3ptr at 3:07. Otherwise the passing dried up. Our playing style changed. And when I say Jimmer went into hero mode its because he did. He did the same thing a couple of weeks back during Isaiah's big second half. Look at his possessions for the rest of the half, and make them or miss them they are quick hitters. Quick decisions. Catch and shoots, whatever. Now you watch his possessions down the stretch and all of a sudden it changes. All of a sudden he catches the ball, and its not a quick hitter. Its not a shot if open a pass if not. Intead its Jimmer as hero, dribbling around looking for a way to force something up. Hit or miss its low percentage ball stopping. And it contributes, does not solely cause, but contributes to the entire offense falling out of rhythm.

Not about Jimmer vs. world or Jimmer vs. detractors. About Jimmer vs. himself. There was good Jimmer knocking down shots in rhythm as soon as he caught the ball. And then there was bad Jimmer, dribbling around like a chicken with its head cut off looking for ways to hear the roar of the crowd. Same jersey, different game and effect on the team. And of course the timing of the appearance of headless Jimmer was not accidental. Hero ball. Trying to win it himself. His first possession of the second half looked like that. His last 3 all looked like that (ignoring the desperation duck and under three at the buzzer). None of the stuff inbetween did. Small sample size of course, but for what its worth we scored on 5 of 7 possessions when good Jimmer made quick decisions to shoot or pass. We only scored on 1 of 4 where bad Jimmer was looking for himself, and that score was on a tough tough shot.

So we scored 6 out of 11 possessions and you're complaining for what reason?

 

[Bricklayer]

On the "Series of moves for a tough flip" he's given the ball at 10 seconds remaining in the shot clock. So Aaron brooks pounded the ball for 14 seconds and did absolutely nothing.

On the second possession of that crucial stretch he's given the ball with 13 seconds on the shot clock. (this is his first touch of the possession btw.) So Aaron Brooks held the ball for 11 seconds.

When he collects JT sets a weak screen for him then saunters back to the post, he doesn't pop out for a pass or dive to the hoop he does nothing, he gets it to JJ with 7 seconds on the shot clock who gets into the lane but he's blocked. Ho hum. Ok maybe he gives it up a couple of seconds earlier but the offense had died, absolutely no movement what so ever. Whoever he passed to would have gone one on one. (but wouldn't have been criticised)

In those two crucial possessions we ran the same play twice which were clearly run to get Jimmer the ball, last season he wasn't "agressive enough" according to some, this season he's a "selfish" "hero baller." The fact of the matter is you could do a similar breakdown for every player on this team and come up with some way to paint them in a negative light, which plays actually lose you a game? Is it the missed open 3 in the first quarter or a missed 2 to tie in the last second? You could find a way to say that any player on the roster "lost us a game" by finding one bad shot or one bad turnover somewhere or other, but more often than not it's Jimmers name that pops up.

Jimmer is held under immense scrutiny thats not really applied to anyone else for some reason.

suffice to say he went 3-3 from downtown in the 4th and was 4-6 from the field with 1 assist and no turnovers.

A PG coming up the floor, surveying the defense, going through play checkdowns, and finally passing it off to start a play, in crunchtime no less, is entirely a different thing froma guy wasting those seconds trying to get his own shot off. As you know well of course. Doesn't mean that Brooks is terribly good at that, but he was merely performing his job.

Because here is the alternate explanation for the Jimmer "immense scrutiny not applies to andybody else": its applies to everybody else. But everybody else doesn't have a following willing to dispute any perceived slight to the object of their affection. If I had made a similar remark about Marcus Thornton, suffice it to say the current discusssion is not being had. I didn't see people leaping to Travis Outlaw's defense. Or Aaron Brooks'. But no, not Jimmer!!

Sometimes it can be like trying to tell a 14yr old girl that Justin Bieber has bad breath.

 

[Bricklayer]

So we scored 6 out of 11 possessions and you're complaining for what reason?

I am so glad I added my Bieber remark to my last comment. Reading be handy before trying to respond to something in intelligent fashion.

 

[Kingster]

The Jimmer antagonism is ridiculous. He was part of the lineup that brought the Kings back and gave them a chance to win the game. With Thornton being out, he has a chance now to move up in the rotation. We'll see...

The Kings lost in the first half with all the turnovers. And Detroit shot the ball very well from the outside. If the Kings came into the game in the first half with the same mindset they had in the second, they have a good shot to win the game. Overall, I thought they did stay on the same page as a team, but they just didn't execute as well as you would hope.

 

[Npliam]

I am so glad I added my Bieber remark to my last comment. Reading be handy before trying to respond to something in intelligent fashion.

I think you should do this same thing for Cousins. It would be entertaining to watch you spin how his "hero" shots were actually good shots because he wasn't really even looking at the basket. You anylisis of Jimmers play is a joke. It ignores what the rest of the players were doing and what they were suppose to be doing. Oh and if you had made the same comment about Thornton as you did Jimmer there would be people calling you out. You would just never make that comment. You would most liely praise him for bringing you back and giving you a shot to win.

 

[UK_King]

A PG coming up the floor, surveying the defense, going through play checkdowns, and finally passing it off to start a play, in crunchtime no less, is entirely a different thing froma guy wasting those seconds trying to get his own shot off. As you know well of course. Doesn't mean that Brooks is terribly good at that, but he was merely performing his job.

Because here is the alternate explanation for the Jimmer "immense scrutiny not applies to andybody else": its applies to everybody else. But everybody else doesn't have a following willing to dispute any perceived slight to the object of their affection. If I had made a similar remark about Marcus Thornton, suffice it to say the current discusssion is not being had. I didn't see people leaping to Travis Outlaw's defense. Or Aaron Brooks'. But no, not Jimmer!!

Sometimes it can be like trying to tell a 14yr old girl that Justin Bieber has bad breath.

I think it's fair to say the heat Jimmer takes is a reaction to his overzealous fanbase, your "beiber" and "object of their affection" comment is evidence of that, silly, and clearly it winds you up. All i want to see is the team win, i couldn't care less if Jimmer gets 2 points or 40 points if we get a W, but i will stuck up for anyone and anything if i happen to have a different opinion, in the interests of debate and all that. I'm not a "jimmer fanboy" as everyone knows but i have noticed people like to balance his OTT praise by going OTT on the neg, IMO.

And as for Brooks, my take is that those 2 crucial plays i mentioned were designed to be skip passes to actually get Jimmer in the position to work for his own shot, if you get a different impression fair enough.

 

[Spike]

Hard choice in the poll today because there is no way to predict how Drummond or Knight would be handled by Smart. Chances are, had Monroe been drafted instead of Cousins, that Smart would never have been named coach.

People tend to forget the lack of development our players receive. I'm pretty sure Evans and Cousins would be further along in different situations, and we'd be saying, "wish we had them instead of [player]". So much coaching and teaching needs to happen within the season-it's not just about individual development.
As for TRob, I don't know where I stand. If his bread and butter is rebounding, he's going to have to figure out how to better position himself, or he's going to have to figure out a new trick, cause it isn't really working right now. Then again, how can we tell him to just rebound when everyone else is generally out of position?

 

[Bricklayer]

I think you should do this same thing for Cousins. It would be entertaining to watch you spin how his "hero" shots were actually good shots because he wasn't really even looking at the basket. You anylisis of Jimmers play is a joke. It ignores what the rest of the players were doing and what they were suppose to be doing. Oh and if you had made the same comment about Thornton as you did Jimmer there would be people calling you out. You would just never make that comment. You would most liely praise him for bringing you back and giving you a shot to win.

The myopia of the Jimmer following is staggering. As are its delusions of persecution.

Indeed, nobody has ever questioned DeMarcus's shot selection, or Marcus's selfishness. You know, other than in the massive threads that pop up around here from time to time more or less suggesting we just take them out back and shoot them of course.

 

[ESP47]

I am so glad I added my Bieber remark to my last comment. Reading be handy before trying to respond to something in intelligent fashion.

We scored 6 out of 11 possessions. Again, whats the problem with this? I'm not even a Jimmer nut hugger. In fact I don't really think any of our players are all that good but I can give credit where credit is due. If we're scoring on more than 50% of our possessions, then we're going to win a lot of games.

You're almost acting as if the 6 scores didn't matter because of a few bad possessions mixed in there. What did you expect, perfection to close the game out? Some possessions were ugly, but he was also draining three's and getting the team back in the game almost single handily.

If Jimmer was on the bench during the last half of the 4th, we most likely lose by 10+. I still have no idea what you're complaining about.

 

[Hadlowe]

I am so glad I added my Bieber remark to my last comment. Reading be handy before trying to respond to something in intelligent fashion.

See, this is the problem. Most of the breathless Jimmer fanatics have left this board already. You can criticize Jimmer, sure. However, when you start analogizing folks who disagree with your criticism to teenage girls with crushes, that tells me that you've lost your argument.

Jimmer initially got intense scrutiny because he's an atypical NBA player who came into the league with a bunch of hype and didn't live up to it. That hype has largely died off, but the scrutiny hasn't. The fact that he's beating expectations and helping the team this year is a good thing, yet we're arguing whether his 14 points in the fourth quarter that got us back into this game was a good thing or a bad thing?

Put as succinctly as possible, in the lineup that was out there when we closed the gap, who exactly were our scorers? I'm mostly okay with Jimmer trying to fix broken plays when his options on the pass are Travis Outlaw or an out of position JT. In this game, I'm pissed at Brooks who had two boneheaded plays down the stretch to kill the comeback, and Smart who left Cousins on the bench too long. Jimmer helped us get back within striking distance, hero ball or not. On this team this year, I'll take any positives I can.

 

[Bricklayer]

We scored 6 out of 11 possessions. Again, whats the problem with this? I'm not even a Jimmer nut hugger. In fact I don't really think any of our players are all that good but I can give credit where credit is due. If we're scoring on more than 50% of our possessions, then we're going to win a lot of games.

You're almost acting as if the 6 scores didn't matter because of a few bad possessions mixed in there. What did you expect, perfection to close the game out? Some possessions were ugly, but he was also draining three's and getting the team back in the game almost single handily.

If Jimmer was on the bench during the last half of the 4th, we most likely lose by 10+. I still have no idea what you're complaining about.

Because you did not read.

Actually you are making me a little annoyed. READ. I did not start this stupid debate. Nor did I criticize the portions of the game where Jimmer was actually helping. You're mystified because you did not READ.

How would you like it if I responded to your post by saying I have no idea what the hell you have against Isaiah Thomas. Would you be confused? Annoyed? Wondering why the hell you have to defend yourself against something you did not say? Be cool huh? So go back and READ before you make allegations.

 

[Bricklayer]

yet we're arguing whether his 14 points in the fourth quarter that got us back into this game was a good thing or a bad thing?

No, actually we are not.

This is getting embarrassing. You want to continue this debate, first you go back into my relatively extensive remarks in this thread now on such an marginal player, and you point out to me ANY point that complained about Jimmer's scoring in the 4th quarter. Indeed, in my relatively extensive mapping, which none of the variosu persecuted minority bothered to do, I go out of my way to draw a line exactly where things went bad.

You know how you can tell a fan from a fanboy? The fanboy reflexively defends, to the death normally. But its thoughless. Nuance is washed away, Reality irrelevant. My guy has been attacked! I must charge forth! The little detail that they are charging forth to defend against an attack that never happened might give a rational fan pause. They might even for instance pause long enough to understand the argument with which they are faced.

 

[Hadlowe]

No, actually we are not.

I'm not trying to be a horse's patoot, here. I'm trying to see what you're seeing when you level your criticisms. You'll have to forgive me if I misunderstood your arguments here, but you opened your grades posts by calling out the scorer who got us back into the game for playing hero ball. Yes, you also criticized Outlaw and Brooks, but the one big difference between them and Jimmer, in this game, is that they were ineffective while Jimmer was not. Again, I ask, who else was supposed to score in those lineups?

I get the feeling that you see rose colored glasses on everyone else without considering that your view is jaundiced. Jimmer was not great earlier in the game, but he helped us down the stretch. That's enough for me.

 

[LWP777]

No, actually we are not.

This is getting embarrassing. You want to continue this debate, first you go back into my relatively extensive remarks in this thread now on such an marginal player, and you point out to me ANY point that complained about Jimmer's scoring in the 4th quarter. Indeed, in my relatively extensive mapping, which none of the variosu persecuted minority bothered to do, I go out of my way to draw a line exactly where things went bad.

You know how you can tell a fan from a fanboy? The fanboy reflexively defends, to the death normally. But its thoughless. Nuance is washed away, Reality irrelevant. My guy has been attacked! I must charge forth! The little detail that they are charging forth to defend against an attack that never happened might give a rational fan pause. They might even for instance pause long enough to understand the argument with which they are faced.

So will you at least admit you're a fanboy of DeMarcus Cousins? If you admit that I promise to never argue with you again about Cousins!

 

[mac]

No, actually we are not.

This is getting embarrassing. You want to continue this debate, first you go back into my relatively extensive remarks in this thread now on such an marginal player, and you point out to me ANY point that complained about Jimmer's scoring in the 4th quarter. Indeed, in my relatively extensive mapping, which none of the variosu persecuted minority bothered to do, I go out of my way to draw a line exactly where things went bad.

You know how you can tell a fan from a fanboy? The fanboy reflexively defends, to the death normally. But its thoughless. Nuance is washed away, Reality irrelevant. My guy has been attacked! I must charge forth! The little detail that they are charging forth to defend against an attack that never happened might give a rational fan pause. They might even for instance pause long enough to understand the argument with which they are faced.

I certainly hope you do not take me for a mindless Jimmer fan. I think my post history speaks for itself with regards to Jimmer's play. I know what you are referring to with regards to Jimmer dribbling in circles, but again I look at the lineup on the floor, see that Jimmer was the offense for pretty much the whole 4th quarter with Cousins out, and I just cannot see how you can put the loss on his 4th quarter play. This was not Jimmer ignoring IT who had brought us back in the game like in OKC, this was not Jimmer ignoring Cousins (who wasn't even in the game) - this was Jimmer hitting his shots and not exactly having anyone else to create the offense. It was pretty clear that the team was also looking to Jimmer for the offense, trying to let him get his shots up.

Perhaps it's the way you phrased your statement - making it sound like Jimmer playing hero-ball was the reason why we lost. This leaves out the fact that he was also largely the reason we even had a chance to win the game. In that sense it doesn't paint a complete picture of Jimmer's game, which I think upsets people because Jimmer gets a huge share of criticism, and the loss of this game simply shouldn't be put on his shoulders. The real blame IMO should be on Smart for not getting Cousins in earlier.

Anyway, I've been around long enough to know that you won't back down from your stance and that's perfectly fine with me, especially since I tend to agree with you most of the time. Just don't lump me and some of the other posters with the real die-hard Jimmer fans.

 

[The_Jamal]

So will you at least admit you're a fanboy of DeMarcus Cousins? If you admit that I promise to never argue with you again about Cousins!

Funny, I was thinking the exact same thing!

 

[LWP777]

Funny, I was thinking the exact same thing!

He'll never admit it though

 

[chief bromden]

A PG coming up the floor, surveying the defense, going through play checkdowns, and finally passing it off to start a play, in crunchtime no less, is entirely a different thing froma guy wasting those seconds trying to get his own shot off. As you know well of course. Doesn't mean that Brooks is terribly good at that, but he was merely performing his job.

Because here is the alternate explanation for the Jimmer "immense scrutiny not applies to andybody else": its applies to everybody else. But everybody else doesn't have a following willing to dispute any perceived slight to the object of their affection. If I had made a similar remark about Marcus Thornton, suffice it to say the current discusssion is not being had. I didn't see people leaping to Travis Outlaw's defense. Or Aaron Brooks'. But no, not Jimmer!!

Sometimes it can be like trying to tell a 14yr old girl that Justin Bieber has bad breath.

Are you saying that Jimmer's possessions, specifically at the end of the game, were ill-advised? I remember the one where he dribbled around for about 10 seconds, the one that resulted in the 24 shot clock violation. That one wasn't great, but if Johnson shoots that ball (or something else happens), then maybe that play isn't so bad. It wasn't that great of a possession, but it wasn't as bad as Brooks 2 drives at the end of the game (one resulting in JT fumbling the ball, and one where he got bailed out by a foul call that shouldn't have been called).

My question would be... how do we not know that is what the play call that was drawn up? Maybe he was told to go "make something happen on offense" and was just doing what he was told to do.