[Grades] Grades v. Pistons 1/1/2013

In the end, which passed SAC/DET draft pick will we regret most?

  • taking Cousins over Monroe

    Votes: 5 12.2%
  • taking Jimmer over Knight (traded back from Knights spot to get Jimmer)

    Votes: 3 7.3%
  • taking TRob over Drummond

    Votes: 33 80.5%

  • Total voters
    41
  • Poll closed .

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
So we sort of stumble back into this one, somehow, with random people who had already failed in the first half. And then the coach refuses to return the franchise center sitting on 21pts 14rebs, and we die under a blizzard of Jimmer Fredette and Travis Outlaw hero ball while Aaron Brooks races around like a chicken with his head cut off. Funny how that didn't work out for us.

Unnecessary loss. Like many of them have been, we did this to ourselves. So onto the grades.

On an early back to back day going to forego any half assed theme and just put up the highlights loss or not:

Boxscore


Stats: 28min 10pts (4-9, 2-5, 0-0) 1reb 6ast 1stl 0blk 2TO
Salmons ( B- ) -- started off the game playing well, hitting two threes in the early going, and again being our best and most willing passer (I would go so far as to argue that John Salmons, noted career long blackhole, has been the real key to the team's ball movement this season by reinventing himself). When things began to fall apart in the late first respnded with a dumb 1 on 1 midrange force, but was back to passing ways by the time he returned late in the half. Lost effectiveness and minutes as the second half wore on. Began to have problems with Prince's size, necessitating the appearance of JJ and Outlaw to counter the Pistons' length, as well as trouble staying in front of small Pistons guards when they went to a two PG set, and was not part of the random crew that brought us back in the 4th.

Stats: 33min 15pts (6-10, 0-0, 4-6) 6reb 1ast 0stl 1blk 0TO
Thompson ( B- ) -- mostly outworked by Maxiel early, and in the early second a bit overwhelmed in there against both Monroe an Drummond. And yet stayed efficient, kept garbaging away, and in the 4th quarter comeback played an important role doing the little things, cleaning up messes. Not much on the glass on the night however, and he missed a key one in the final 2 minutes on a missed Monroe FT, letting Maxiel beat him to the spot and being forced to foul again.

Stats: 36min 21pts (10-21, 0-0, 1-2) 14reb 2ast 3stl 0blk 2TO
Cousins ( A- ) -- nice strong game out of DeMarcus -- too bad his coach wouldn't let him close it. Was physical and inside oriented all night long, and rarely out of control. Was more unselfish than the 2 assists would indicate too, and added a nice little screen to let IT get to the rim as he was making the game easier, not harder. Even the defense was better. Watching him in their he was active on the backline stepping up and showing, finding guys to box out etc. Added one of his steals up top and full court gallpos the other way. Really began to dominate inside in the the latter stages of the first half, and keptright on rolling into the third with a serious of dunks. Should be noted even most of his misses were good shots and things that rolled off. And he gathered a fair number of them up and went back up finishing them. The 5 fouls is also a bit of an illusion in this one, as he showed good patience and smarts to avoid fouls most of the night and most of the fugly forces. Foul trouble was never a limiting factor. Smart was, and then Drummond was, as the big kid began to become a real impediment in there as the game went along, and like many long shotblockers DeMarcus began to struggle against him. Was nonetheless sitting on 21pts 14rebs with 9 minutes to go in the game...and then sat out until 1:30 seconds were left, and we needed a defensive rebound on a FT (after we had missed one afew seconds earlier). That's coaching for you.

Stats: 24min 5pts (1-5, 1-3, 2-2) 1reb 2ast 3stl 0blk 1TO
Garcia ( D ) -- hit a three off the good ball movement early, but it would be his only FG of the night. By the latter stages of the half the shots were coming out of rhythm, and that carried over ino the third, when Kyle Singler woke up briefly to outroleplayer him. Singler's own nothing game is all that buoys this grade.

Stats: 26min 12pts (4-10, 2-5, 2-2) 2reb 2ast 1stl 0blk 4TO
Thomas ( C ) -- able to score esily, and be scored over easily, in a first quarter shootout with Brandon Knight. Was bombing threes. Too many loose turnovers however, and as this one went along they, along with the defense, began to define this one for him. Had 10 of his 12 points in the first quarter, but while he quit scoring, they didn't quit scoring on him. When he returned in the second showed limited control, was taking shots when he should have passed, setting up the wrong people when he did pass. Kept getting scraped far too easily on little screens freeing Bynum to take unimpeded runs at our rim again and again. Highlight of his game may actually have been an unfortunate incident near the end of the half when he got thugged by Charlie Villanueva of all people (about right for Villanueva to suddenly go from softie to thug on a 5'9" guy). It was a cheap shot, and Isaiah popped up and jumped right in his face as the scrum ensued. Thing was, on replay it looked liek he damn near threw a punch at Charlie. As in possibly half tried to and may have just missed. Hopefully its interpreted just as a wild arm motion or that's an automatic suspension. Returend for the third and was still ineffective, elading to Brooks to eventually take over and run the team through the 4th. .
 
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I think the coach needs to pay attention to who is producing for him. The moment Travis made that fadeaway DMC didnt have a chance. It immediately got Smart wide eyed and probably convinced him Travis was gonna drop 40 in two minutes.
 
So we sort of stumble back into this one, somehow, with random people who had already failed in the first half. And then the coach refuses to return the franchise center sitting on 21pts 14rebs, and we die under a blizzard of Jimmer Fredette and Travis Outlaw hero ball while Aaron Brooks races around like a chicken with his head cut off. Funny how that didn't work out for us.

Unnecessary loss. Like many of them have been, we did this to ourselves. So onto the grades.

Boxscore

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Mm I don't see how you can blame Jimmer for this though .. He didn't force up any shots or anything like that.
 
I dont want to see Garcia onthe floor again. I know with tyreke and marcus out somebody has to get those minutes but honestly i would rather see outlaw get those minutes.
 
So we sort of stumble back into this one, somehow, with random people who had already failed in the first half. And then the coach refuses to return the franchise center sitting on 21pts 14rebs, and we die under a blizzard of Jimmer Fredette and Travis Outlaw hero ball while Aaron Brooks races around like a chicken with his head cut off. Funny how that didn't work out for us.

absolutely spot on analysis of what happened
 
I actually had no problem with having Jimmer out there at shooting guard because in my opinion he has really produced in clutch moments. I wouldnt really place the blunt of the blame on him because he didnt really force anything that wasnt a decent shot.

What DID bug me is that we had a lineup that had so many holes in defense for so long! I feel like us coming back was almost a fluke. Its like Smart noticed that it wasnt working, then just wanted to keep that lineup to force it to work. Luckily Jimmer lit up. But really, youre going to keep DMC on the bench when he was the only one producing for the entire 3rd quarter?
 
tonights key points

-Garcia and Hayes are the most overpayed players in the NBA.

-we could have had Knight and Drummond instead of Jimmer and T-Rob. if Petrie wasnt crap

-absolutely idiotic coaching to leave Cousins on the bench till 1:30 left. for Outlaw of all people, just because Outlaw made a jumpshot that he forced
 
Mm I don't see how you can blame Jimmer for this though .. He didn't force up any shots or anything like that.



The scary thing is that I think people are being serious with this. When it comes to Jimmer, he gets treated like a supermodel who passes gas. The ugly girl does it she farts. The supermodel does it its cute and giggle worthy.
 
The scary thing is that I think people are being serious with this. When it comes to Jimmer, he gets treated like a supermodel who passes gas. The ugly girl does it she farts. The supermodel does it its cute and giggle worthy.

Sadly Jimmer is not the only player who gets treated that way *ahem*. Just giving you a hard time. ;)
 
Geez I wish Garcia and Hayes were better. They are the type of personalities that if they led by example and vocally the team would be better off than it is now. Right now you have leaders who aren't very good at their jobs.
 
Jimmer has been playing well of late. It's kind of hard to believe people always find something to complain about when it comes to Jimmer. He plays unselfish ball and makes the extra pass. However, I know some people would prefer 1-4 iso plays with Tyreke every time down the court.
 
So we sort of stumble back into this one, somehow, with random people who had already failed in the first half. And then the coach refuses to return the franchise center sitting on 21pts 14rebs, and we die under a blizzard of Jimmer Fredette and Travis Outlaw hero ball while Aaron Brooks races around like a chicken with his head cut off. Funny how that didn't work out for us.

Unnecessary loss. Like many of them have been, we did this to ourselves. So onto the grades.

Boxscore

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Cousins should have been in much earlier but Jimmer played really well in the 4th. Not sure what your problem with Jimmer is.
 
Other than one early ridiculous 3 I don't recall any bad forced shots, especially down the stretch when it was kinda him who hit some big shots to keep us in the game. Had that one bad drive that got blocked by Drummond in transition that resulted in a Monroe dunk the other way. But in terms of "hero ball" I don't quite see how you can blame Jimmer .. Who else was on the floor in the 4th that he should have been deferring to? Cousins who came in at the 1:30 mark?

Or are you referring to this 1 play, with us down 3 where he had a decent look but could have passed it off to JT?
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Sorry Brick, I can't agree with you on Jimmer this time round, not in terms of "hero ball" at least. He played a big part in bringing us back. If anything this is on Smart for not getting Cousins back in earlier.
He took that one bad shot in the 2nd when he couldn't get the ball out of T-robs hands. He shouldn't have taken that shot but I imagine he thought that if he gave up the ball then T-rob was going to shoot it again.
 
The scary thing is that I think people are being serious with this. When it comes to Jimmer, he gets treated like a supermodel who passes gas. The ugly girl does it she farts. The supermodel does it its cute and giggle worthy.
WTF? Jimmer did nothing wrong in the 4th. He took his spot up 3's and made them. Made a clever spin move into a mid range jumper. Tried to make a play when the ball was given to him, but couldn't. Not his fault he was being asked to be the guy to make shots down the stretch. Blame Smart for having that lineup in crunch time. Your blind hate for anyone slightly undersized is ridiculous. Jimmer will never be a great player, but he is showing signs of being a deadly shooter, with high bball iq, solid playmaker, and he has improved his defense in his second season. Give him credit for being a PROFESSIONAL and working on his weaknesses. Unlike others on our team (Cousins has yet to develop any sort of post game in his 3rd year, and Tyreke cant throw it in the ocean from mid range off the dribble, he has finally shown some improvement as a spot up 3pt shooter in this his 4th season and contract year though)
 
The scary thing is that I think people are being serious with this. When it comes to Jimmer, he gets treated like a supermodel who passes gas. The ugly girl does it she farts. The supermodel does it its cute and giggle worthy.

Other than one early ridiculous 3 I don't recall any bad forced shots, especially down the stretch when it was kinda him who hit some big shots to keep us in the game. Had that one bad drive that got blocked by Drummond in transition that resulted in a Monroe dunk the other way. But in terms of "hero ball" I don't quite see how you can blame Jimmer .. Who else was on the floor in the 4th that he should have been deferring to? Cousins who came in at the 1:30 mark?

Or are you referring to this 1 play, with us down 3 where he had a decent look but could have passed it off to JT?
jimmer.jpg


Sorry Brick, I can't agree with you on Jimmer this time round, not in terms of "hero ball" at least. While he didn't do much in the first half he played a big part in bringing us back. If anything this is on Smart for not getting Cousins back in earlier. As far as 4th quarter goes, Jimmer played fine by my books.
 
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Robinson over Drummond. Sigh. Petrie isn't the draft wizard everyone makes him out to be.

How about Robinson over practically everyone else in the draft? Even non-lotto picks are doing better than him. Heck to be honest if we were just talking about this season alone and not potential I'd take Robert Sacre over Robinson.
 
How about Robinson over practically everyone else in the draft? Even non-lotto picks are doing better than him. Heck to be honest if we were just talking about this season alone and not potential I'd take Robert Sacre over Robinson.

I hope he turns out great, but I dont have patience. I'm glad I'm not a GM. Lol
 
I hope he turns out great, but I dont have patience. I'm glad I'm not a GM. Lol

Even if he becomes a good player his skillset isn't complementary to the pieces we have, which is why we're basically throwing him out there and telling him to just rebound and hustle and defend. But if you asked me, I'd say that if defense and rebounding were all we were after then we shouldn't have spent a #5 pick on an undersized 4 as opposed to an athletic shotblocker. A player doesn't need to be very motivated or mature to just run the floor, rebound and block some shots. Just look at Javale McGee.
 
So we sort of stumble back into this one, somehow, with random people who had already failed in the first half. And then the coach refuses to return the franchise center sitting on 21pts 14rebs, and we die under a blizzard of Jimmer Fredette and Travis Outlaw hero ball while Aaron Brooks races around like a chicken with his head cut off. Funny how that didn't work out for us.

Unnecessary loss. Like many of them have been, we did this to ourselves. So onto the grades.

Boxscore

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He's so far from a franchise center at this point. That's like calling Evans our "franchise point guard"... neither statement has any ring of truth to it.
 
tonights key points

-garcia and hayes are the most overpayed players in the nba.

-we could have had knight and drummond instead of jimmer and t-rob. If petrie wasnt crap

-absolutely idiotic coaching to leave cousins on the bench till 1:30 left. For outlaw of all people, just because outlaw made a jumpshot that he forced

totally agree with the last point!!!!
 
Jimmer played well. DMC played really well. Neither was the problem tonight. The problem was we did not pass and move the ball as well as a team which lead to many more difficult shots. Still, as a whole, we are playing better.
 
How about Robinson over practically everyone else in the draft? Even non-lotto picks are doing better than him. Heck to be honest if we were just talking about this season alone and not potential I'd take Robert Sacre over Robinson.

Pathetic how everyone's given up on Trob already with how many excuses are made for Cousins and Reke on a regular basis. Those guys were able to showcase their talent because the team gave them a chance to. Trob is being treated like a scrub

How Drummond is being handled is EXACTLY what you do to get a young big acclimated to the NBA. He's not asked to do anything offensively, he patrols the paint as a goalie, and he's playing minutes against back-up bigs and gets Playing time with a lot of the Detroit starters. In short, he's being put into situations where he can play to his strengths and gain confidence against NBA talent.

Trob on the other hand has this to deal with:

Highly inconsistent minutes
Very limited time with our best players
Coaches haven't defined his role on the team
 
Pathetic how everyone's given up on Trob already with how many excuses are made for Cousins and Reke on a regular basis. Those guys were able to showcase their talent because the team gave them a chance to. Trob is being treated like a scrub

How Drummond is being handled is EXACTLY what you do to get a young big acclimated to the NBA. He's not asked to do anything offensively, he patrols the paint as a goalie, and he's playing minutes against back-up bigs and gets Playing time with a lot of the Detroit starters. In short, he's being put into situations where he can play to his strengths and gain confidence against NBA talent.

Trob on the other hand has this to deal with:

Highly inconsistent minutes
Very limited time with our best players
Coaches haven't defined his role on the team

Not sure what makes you think that I've given up on Trob - I'm referring specifically to his play so far this season. You don't need consistent time or time with our best players to rebound. I'm pretty sure the coaches have defined his role, the problem is that is a really stupid role for a #5 pick. His role is to go out and play defense and rebound the ball. In fact I dare say he has one of the most defined roles on the entire team. If you're saying that the best college rebounder in the nation needs to get consistent time and time with our best players to rebound then I again question what skills he actually does have. Remember, this is a #5 pick we're talking about - I don't think it's unfair for me to expect him to be able to do something without the help of his team mates and what not.

You know what the problem is? The problem is TRob tries to do things that he can't in limited minutes. Either he doesn't have the skills to do these things and he shouldn't have been a lotto pick or we should give him a longer leash and more offensive freedom to let him learn what he can and cannot do. In both cases it was a stupid pick on our end because we simply can't afford to give a rookie the green light - we have enough scorers as it is.
 
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Damn.... we had so many chances. It wasn't a terrible loss but we should've won. Please just get healthy Tyreke and Thornton. We need you...
 
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