[Grades] Grades v. Pacers 11/30/2012

[Bricklayer]

I am not sure that Cousins doesn't prefer to be at the high post.

I in fact think he does. And that is pretty common nowadays, especially for a player with a PF skill package like Cousins. Thus complaints about it are often misplaced, EXCEPT for the balance issue. Have him with a 50/50 inside/outside split and it makes sense for his skillset. In ths game though it was nearly 100% outside, which was either a mistake, or possibly a response to big ole Hibbert in there. If the latter, that too could make sense, and the truth is that Boogie had him. It could have worked. But he wasn't smart enough. Hibbert couldn't handle him off the dribble, and because of that the entire second half Cousins had wide open jumpers nearly every play. The problem was he didn't take thm.

 

[tyreeeke]

wow man, its 5 am your time, your really intent on this

I stand for what I believe in! Believe it or not, i'm a Gator and I fell in love with Jimmer during the NCAA tournament while he was playing us. Kenny Boynton, an excellent defender and adored Gator, had more trouble with Jimmer than any player i've ever seen.

 

[tyreeeke]

I wouldn't exactly say Jimmer was "open" at the end.

Ok maybe he gives him the ball earlier but then you're just trading one contested three for another. The real problem is we didn't get anyone a good look from an inbounds play.

He was open earlier and Jimmer wouldn't have been shooting over a 7'2 center.

 

[tyreeeke]

This is Marcus Thornton we are talking about ... The whole world knew he was going to get the shot and he wasn't going to pass it up. Sometimes you need a player like that ... sometimes.

Hey, your man Jimmer is playing well! I'm still not sold on us playing .500 ball with him getting more minutes or err him being an all star in 4 years and all that, but he's showing that he will probably end up as a good player in this league. I am happy with that, was very happy when we drafted him because I thought he'd make a good backcourt mate for Tyreke.

You're kind and I thank you for that, as i'm obviously not well received by many. You have to understand, I don't live in a pro sports city. I latch onto players and then root for the teams they're on. This won't be well received, neither, but Kobe Bryant is my favorite player along with Jimmer. lol.

 

[UK_King]

He was open earlier and Jimmer wouldn't have been shooting over a 7'2 center.

well thats what i said, so we get a contested jumper vs a contested jumper.

I'd rather see us run a play to get a good shot, I've never been a fan of this "superstar mode" final shot routine that dominates the NBA. Is that really the best play you can think of?

 

[ESP47]

I in fact think he does. And that is pretty common nowadays, especially for a player with a PF skill package like Cousins. Thus complaints about it are often misplaced, EXCEPT for the balance issue. Have him with a 50/50 inside/outside split and it makes sense for his skillset. In ths game though it was nearly 100% outside, which was either a mistake, or possibly a response to big ole Hibbert in there. If the latter, that too could make sense, and the truth is that Boogie had him. It could have worked. But he wasn't smart enough. Hibbert couldn't handle him off the dribble, and because of that the entire second half Cousins had wide open jumpers nearly every play. The problem was he didn't take thm.

I'm sure the first meeting against the Pacers was still fresh in Cousins' mind. Hibbert almost completely shut him down in the low post. Hibbert finished that game with 6 blocks. Cousins got blocked 4 times. He attempted 27 field goals and only hit on 9 of them for a cool 33%.

This game he shot 29% and only got blocked twice because he played outside. I've never heard of a center that routinely gets shut down like this.

Cousins should be the 5th option behind Tyreke, Thornton, Thompson and Brooks. I'd rather have Brooks just jacking up random shots than Cousins wasting our time taking the bulk of our shots and only hitting 30% of them most the time.

 

[tyreeeke]

Stephan Curry is not even a 23ppg/ 6assists guy how come Jimmer possibly be? But i agree with you the half court offense thats why most of our teams shooting % is so low we get no easy buckets other than the odd Chuck Hayes pass to a cutter

Jimmer is better than Curry. Jimmer is stronger, a better driver, and a better finisher.

 

[tyreeeke]

well thats what i said, so we get a contested jumper vs a contested jumper.

I'd rather see us run a play to get a good shot, I've never been a fan of this "superstar mode" final shot routine that dominates the NBA. Is that really the best play you can think of?

That kind of role should only be reserved for Kobe, Durant, Lebron, and Wade when he's on, IMO.

 

[jcassio]

Nah I disagree. Jimmer played pretty well ... his defense wasn't THAT bad. Also don't really think he hogged the ball, at least when he did he scored which is fine by me. For all his "ballhogging" he still got more assists than Brooks and MT combined. The thing is Jimmer is a scoring guard, at his best he's a 23ppg/6 assist on 14 shots kinda guy, not a 12/10 on 8 shots. You couple that with the fact that we run no half court offense and it shouldn't be a surprise that he appears to hog the ball. His job is to score when he's out there, and score he did. That's fine by me.

I also thought Jimmer played pretty well. He could, however, improve his defense significantly if he would learn to lower his center of gravity (by lowering his butt). In any contact sport, if your opponent has a high center of gravity, a respectable IQ tells you that you can get an advantage by making him (try to) change directions. They simply can't change directions efficiently because of their weight distribution. This advantage can make a player with good speed effective against a player with excellent speed. And Jimmer needs all the advantage he can get because he's only got good speed at best.

 

[UK_King]

Did Jimmer get crossed up and fall at one point or was i imagining that?

 

[Glenn]

Lol. Why do you get so upset whenever somebody makes a criticism of Cousins?

I will address this to both of you who seem to have similar questions. I don't always defend Boogie. To claim that of me means that you are selectively reading my notes. Yesterday I defended him because two notes complaining about Boogie were posted and I didn't think they were fair. I might be right and I might be wrong but that's the way I saw it. You seem to have taken two notes and expanded them to the universe of posts I have made of Boogie. I don't think that's a fair evaluation of me.

I DO think I understand him from the mental standpoint better than most and have a clue as to how he might evolve as the years pass. I very much hope that he progresses instead of being stuck as the NBA's bad boy. He's a King. Why shouldn't I root for him?

What makes the hair stand up on the back of my neck is that some people seem to be rooting against him. I see him as a partial solution to a bad franchise and since I have watched them since 1985, I feel a need for something to root for REAL BAD so I root for Boogie. Because of my age, I feel some urgency.

But to the issue at hand. Boogie was supposed to be the stud last night as Tyreke was missing. I was curious as to how he would react. I am sure Boogie felt more responsibility than usual and i think he responded well. The game was uneven for him. We needed more scoring from him and his usually reliable jump shot was weak. I realize that's an odd thing to say about a guy that big but he has a nice little jump shot that failed him.

As to his overall game, there is much to say about him. He had 16 rbds and one foul. Those are noteworthy stats from any player and the number of fouls is close to miraculous. Granted, his shooting percentage and rebound numbers are inter-related in a Moses Malone kind of way. For some reason he misses close in shots yet can put back the rebound. In that way, one stat is low and the other is high. In any case, yes, I will defend Boogie. I like him as a man-child and as a player. He seems to be a nice guy.

My underlying question is "as a fan of the Kings, why do you pick on the Kings players? Why do you focus on the negative and not the positive." There is no rule as to how that must be answered but I tend to see the good where others see the bad especially with MY team. I am just wired this way and apparently you two are wired in a way to get enjoyment in picking apart one of your own players.

To say #1) he shouldn't lose his cool and get techs or #2) his shooting percentage is low is not exactly news. If Boogie was tossed, so should have been Ridnour but as Wilt Chamberlain once said "no one roots for Goliath." I'm going to root for not only Goliath but for the Kings.

 

[Bricklayer]

Cousins should be the 5th option behind Tyreke, Thornton, Thompson and Brooks. I'd rather have Brooks just jacking up random shots than Cousins wasting our time taking the bulk of our shots and only hitting 30% of them most the time.

Yeha, that's brilliant.

 

[rainmaker]

Jimmer is better than Curry. Jimmer is stronger, a better driver, and a better finisher.

That's ridiculous. I've seen almost every game Curry has played with GS and he's better in every facet of the game.

Well, Jimmer is better at staying healthy, so maybe he has stronger ankles than Steph. I know one thing, if Petrie called GS and proposed a Jimmer for Steph trade straight up, h'ed be the laughing stock of the league, if he isn't already.

 

[tyreeeke]

That's ridiculous. I've seen almost every game Curry has played with GS and he's better in every facet of the game.

Well, Jimmer is better at staying healthy, so maybe he has stronger ankles than Steph. I know one thing, if Petrie called GS and proposed a Jimmer for Steph trade straight up, h'ed be the laughing stock of the league, if he already isn't.

Why is Curry better, because he's played 30+ minutes from day one in a high octane run n gun offense? Curry is damn good, but his circumstances to improve himself and have free reign are far better than Jimmer's. I'm not knocking Curry at all, and they're actually playing .500 ball at this point, but sometimes stats are misleading when comparing players. Jimmer is a better player than Curry, IMO.

 

[pshn80]

Why is Curry better, because he's played 30+ minutes from day one in a high octane run n gun offense? Curry is damn good, but his circumstances to improve himself and have free reign are far better than Jimmer's. I'm not knocking Curry at all, and they're actually playing .500 ball at this point, but sometimes stats are misleading when comparing players. Jimmer is a better player than Curry, IMO.

Jimmer is very talented. In the NBA he is too short to survive as a SG and too slow to survive as a PG. and there is no other starting position he can play. He might be able to start in a lineup with four other starters that are all-stars. We aren't there yet.

 

[ESP47]

I will address this to both of you who seem to have similar questions. I don't always defend Boogie. To claim that of me means that you are selectively reading my notes. Yesterday I defended him because two notes complaining about Boogie were posted and I didn't think they were fair. I might be right and I might be wrong but that's the way I saw it. You seem to have taken two notes and expanded them to the universe of posts I have made of Boogie. I don't think that's a fair evaluation of me.

I DO think I understand him from the mental standpoint better than most and have a clue as to how he might evolve as the years pass. I very much hope that he progresses instead of being stuck as the NBA's bad boy. He's a King. Why shouldn't I root for him?

What makes the hair stand up on the back of my neck is that some people seem to be rooting against him. I see him as a partial solution to a bad franchise and since I have watched them since 1985, I feel a need for something to root for REAL BAD so I root for Boogie. Because of my age, I feel some urgency.

But to the issue at hand. Boogie was supposed to be the stud last night as Tyreke was missing. I was curious as to how he would react. I am sure Boogie felt more responsibility than usual and i think he responded well. The game was uneven for him. We needed more scoring from him and his usually reliable jump shot was weak. I realize that's an odd thing to say about a guy that big but he has a nice little jump shot that failed him.

As to his overall game, there is much to say about him. He had 16 rbds and one foul. Those are noteworthy stats from any player and the number of fouls is close to miraculous. Granted, his shooting percentage and rebound numbers are inter-related in a Moses Malone kind of way. For some reason he misses close in shots yet can put back the rebound. In that way, one stat is low and the other is high. In any case, yes, I will defend Boogie. I like him as a man-child and as a player. He seems to be a nice guy.

My underlying question is "as a fan of the Kings, why do you pick on the Kings players? Why do you focus on the negative and not the positive." There is no rule as to how that must be answered but I tend to see the good where others see the bad especially with MY team. I am just wired this way and apparently you two are wired in a way to get enjoyment in picking apart one of your own players.

To say #1) he shouldn't lose his cool and get techs or #2) his shooting percentage is low is not exactly news. If Boogie was tossed, so should have been Ridnour but as Wilt Chamberlain once said "no one roots for Goliath." I'm going to root for not only Goliath but for the Kings.

Nobody is rooting against him and no one wants him to fail. He's failing on his own and he's failing the team. If anything I'd say the team as a whole is over achieving while Cousins is one of the few that's under achieving. It brings the entire team down because he's supposed to be the bulk of our offense.

What positives are there to focus on? As a fan base, were tired of losing and trying to find silver linings with everything. We have done that for the last few years when we knew we were just watching our talent develop for the future. Well the future is now and we have a team that is capable of a .500 record and we aren't even going to sniff that because of how inept we are.

Look at the team stats. Crazy enough, we are out shooting our opponents from 3 and our FG% is within a few tenths of our opponents. We're losing by an average of 5 points a game and that's with the other teams shooting way more FT's than we shoot. If Cousins would just stop trying to be superman and back his shots down a bit so we can get higher percentage looks, were instantly 5 points ahead and in every game. Instead we have to watch him barrel into defenders trying to create fouls and watch as 1 in every 3 shots goes in most games. Like I said in another thread, look at the game logs. When Cousins plays well, we win almost every time. When he doesn't play well, we lose almost every time. Why is our supposed best player only playing well 1/3 of the time this year?

His touches should be given to another player and he should be cleaning up scraps under the hoop until he proves he can score more efficiently than Jason Williams.

 

[jcunny33]

Come on Reke, what's with the jimmer bashing? You keep saying how you don't dislike jimmer, but most of your in-game posts say otherwise. Give the kid a break. He's doing what Smart is telling him to do - which is to score. We don't have much of a half court offense, so he has to create which looks like ball hogging. That's on Smart.

Still, even with all of that, he had more assists than Brooks and MT combined and shot 50% from the field, but you still choose to pick on him. Be mad at Smart, not him.

You know, its possible to love both Tyreke and Jimmer at the same time. I do.

Thanks sqwalk...you said what I thought about saying several times last night. For a while, every other post was by Reke 13 Havoc was about Jimmer and bad he was playing and hurting the team when in truth he was playing well, even hitting some of the type of little shots under the basket that he did all the time in college and dealing out assists. It was extremely obnoxious and made me wonder why Reke 13 had to post 10 to 15 negative statements about Jimmer.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

Give the kid a break. He's doing what Smart is telling him to do - which is to score.

then he should be playin off the ball, running off screens, catching and shooting. Not playing PG, watch the game again if u have access to it, or just pay atention to it next time Jimmer plays, and watch how many times he brings the ball up, doesn't pass once, dribbles around for 10-15 seconds and takes a shot. maybe it goes in sometimes cause hes a very good shooter, but its horrible offense. but yes you are right, a lot of its on Smart

 

[HereWeBoogie]

Jimmer is better than Curry. Jimmer is stronger, a better driver, and a better finisher.

everything about this is false. wow

 

[HereWeBoogie]

i think there is on thing everyone on this forum can agree on. Tyreke Evans is the best player on the team right now, and the team looks very bad without him out there. even on the games Tyreke has an off night, he still demands so much respect from the Defense that it makes the team better. AND i think we all learned last night that Tyreke is the best playmaker and best passer on the team................

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

i think there is on thing everyone on this forum can agree on. Tyreke Evans is the best player on the team right now...

There is, roughly, a zero percent chance that everyone on this forum agrees with this.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

There is, roughly, a zero percent chance that everyone on this forum agrees with this.

solid point. but the ones that know what theyre watching will agree

 

[UK_King]

then he should be playin off the ball, running off screens, catching and shooting. Not playing PG, watch the game again if u have access to it, or just pay atention to it next time Jimmer plays, and watch how many times he brings the ball up, doesn't pass once, dribbles around for 10-15 seconds and takes a shot. maybe it goes in sometimes cause hes a very good shooter, but its horrible offense. but yes you are right, a lot of its on Smart

I've watched his minutes again... he doesn't do that once.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

I've watched his minutes again... he doesn't do that once.

idk about all that. he's definitely not a good playmaker. can we agree he should be playing off the ball?

 

[UK_King]

idk about all that. he's definitely not a good playmaker. can we agree he should be playing off the ball?

and did you watch his minutes where George Hill destroyed him?

Well I've just watched it and I'm certainly not lying.

I'm not even a big jimmer fan but it does annoy me when people spread misconceptions about any player.

I don't have to watch his defensive effort again to know it wasn't too hot. Couple of times he managed to keep his man from beating him but it was rare.

 

[Glenn]

Nobody is rooting against him and no one wants him to fail. He's failing on his own and he's failing the team. If anything I'd say the team as a whole is over achieving while Cousins is one of the few that's under achieving. It brings the entire team down because he's supposed to be the bulk of our offense.

What positives are there to focus on? As a fan base, were tired of losing and trying to find silver linings with everything. We have done that for the last few years when we knew we were just watching our talent develop for the future. Well the future is now and we have a team that is capable of a .500 record and we aren't even going to sniff that because of how inept we are.

Look at the team stats. Crazy enough, we are out shooting our opponents from 3 and our FG% is within a few tenths of our opponents. We're losing by an average of 5 points a game and that's with the other teams shooting way more FT's than we shoot. If Cousins would just stop trying to be superman and back his shots down a bit so we can get higher percentage looks, were instantly 5 points ahead and in every game. Instead we have to watch him barrel into defenders trying to create fouls and watch as 1 in every 3 shots goes in most games. Like I said in another thread, look at the game logs. When Cousins plays well, we win almost every time. When he doesn't play well, we lose almost every time. Why is our supposed best player only playing well 1/3 of the time this year?

His touches should be given to another player and he should be cleaning up scraps under the hoop until he proves he can score more efficiently than Jason Williams.

That's a good post. I understand Cousins is underachieving. Never said otherwise.

What I find ironic is that I posted a note during the game saying "who are we going to complain about in this game?" Last year was Reke's year to be criticized and now that he seems to have fixed his jumper, I hear little praise. Now this year we can shift to Cuz. I would like him to have fixed all his faults because of what he means to the team. The irony is that the only reason we are picking on him is because he is so darn good. We would ignore him if we didn't see his skills.

I just hope this year isn't Boogie's year to get the never ending criticism. Even if he deserves it as Tyreke did last year, it gets old. Three years ago I said Boogie's main problem was to cut down his fouling as we need him on the court whether he is playing well or poorly. He Has NOT cut down his fouling and that perplexes and worries me a great deal. The rest of it I am assuming will eventually be worked out. He's 22 and nowhere near veteran status. Give him time to learn.

Ironically, one of the only players that could rightfully be called a veteran on our team is Garcia and he had a great game despite not playing in 9 games in a row. Experience counts and Boogie doesn't have experience. He has a lot to learn.

As to the future being now, I think you are jumping the gun. BUT, if the future is truly now, the Maloofs have failed us by not getting us some skilled veterans like AK47. We need vets but they cost money. You cannot go deep into the playoffs when your main studs are under 25 years old.

 

[Section 101]

Nobody is rooting against him and no one wants him to fail. He's failing on his own and he's failing the team. If anything I'd say the team as a whole is over achieving while Cousins is one of the few that's under achieving. It brings the entire team down because he's supposed to be the bulk of our offense.

What positives are there to focus on? As a fan base, were tired of losing and trying to find silver linings with everything. We have done that for the last few years when we knew we were just watching our talent develop for the future. Well the future is now and we have a team that is capable of a .500 record and we aren't even going to sniff that because of how inept we are.

Look at the team stats. Crazy enough, we are out shooting our opponents from 3 and our FG% is within a few tenths of our opponents. We're losing by an average of 5 points a game and that's with the other teams shooting way more FT's than we shoot. If Cousins would just stop trying to be superman and back his shots down a bit so we can get higher percentage looks, were instantly 5 points ahead and in every game. Instead we have to watch him barrel into defenders trying to create fouls and watch as 1 in every 3 shots goes in most games. Like I said in another thread, look at the game logs. When Cousins plays well, we win almost every time. When he doesn't play well, we lose almost every time. Why is our supposed best player only playing well 1/3 of the time this year?

His touches should be given to another player and he should be cleaning up scraps under the hoop until he proves he can score more efficiently than Jason Williams.

Wow he's failing the team? He's currently the best offensive player on the team. Maybe if the other players not named Evans and MT played at at least 75% up to his level we wouldnt be 4-11. He's the last player to complain about for teams struggles.

 

[kupman]

I don't know how good Jimmer will be. However, I can say that he is getting better. There are very notable improvements between this year and last year.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Did Jimmer get crossed up and fall at one point or was i imagining that?

On one defensive possession at the end of the clock (end of one of the quarters, I think) he tried to stay in front of the shooter and got tangled up with a screen and fell. That might be what you're thinking of.

 

[ESP47]

That's a good post. I understand Cousins is underachieving. Never said otherwise.

What I find ironic is that I posted a note during the game saying "who are we going to complain about in this game?" Last year was Reke's year to be criticized and now that he seems to have fixed his jumper, I hear little praise. Now this year we can shift to Cuz. I would like him to have fixed all his faults because of what he means to the team. The irony is that the only reason we are picking on him is because he is so darn good. We would ignore him if we didn't see his skills.

I just hope this year isn't Boogie's year to get the never ending criticism. Even if he deserves it as Tyreke did last year, it gets old. Three years ago I said Boogie's main problem was to cut down his fouling as we need him on the court whether he is playing well or poorly. He Has NOT cut down his fouling and that perplexes and worries me a great deal. The rest of it I am assuming will eventually be worked out. He's 22 and nowhere near veteran status. Give him time to learn.

Ironically, one of the only players that could rightfully be called a veteran on our team is Garcia and he had a great game despite not playing in 9 games in a row. Experience counts and Boogie doesn't have experience. He has a lot to learn.

As to the future being now, I think you are jumping the gun. BUT, if the future is truly now, the Maloofs have failed us by not getting us some skilled veterans like AK47. We need vets but they cost money. You cannot go deep into the playoffs when your main studs are under 25 years old.

We see Cousins skills, but he uses them in a Jason Williams type of way. He'll make two incredibly stupid plays in a row and then wow you with a play you didn't think was possible for a center to make. You see the potential but he doesn't use his skills in an intelligent way. He'll beat a guy off the dribble early in the game and then beat that horse over and over again until it becomes completely useless. Throw in the pointless frustration fouls and he's just handing points over to the other teams.

I don't mean the future is now as in we should be winning....but we should be seeing glimpses of it. We have more talent on this team than we've had in years, yet we're playing worse than we have in years. Part of it's Smart's problem but Smart isn't the reason why Boogie is shooting 42% from the field.

Section 101, just because he's scoring the most points doesn't mean he's the best offensive player. It just means he's taking more shots than the other guys. At this point, Tyreke is our best offensive player. Our two guys that take the most shots are Cousins and Thornton and both of them have been awful. Thornton is just as much to blame as Cousins but he doesn't have near the talent, nor expectations that Cousins has.