Grades v. Pacers 03/03

[PoundForPound]

Dude, are you serious? They say if your shot is off, get to the free throw line. Kevin went to the line 14 times and hit all of his free throws, almost half to the teams total amount. Yes, he did look like he gave up in the mid third qtr, but **** I would have to if my teammates kept missing me on wide open cuts to the basket. SMH.

That's the kind of attitude you can't have as a team. I wish you would stop defending the way he's been playing. You want a player who gives full effort and leaves everything out on the floor, no matter if their team is playing for something or not. K-Mart has been playing completely careless. He's always going to score, that's what he does, but it's the way he's been playing that I don't like.

 

[VF21]

That's the kind of attitude you can't have as a team. I wish you would stop defending the way he's been playing. You want a player who gives full effort and leaves everything out on the floor, no matter if their team is playing for something or not. K-Mart has been playing completely careless. He's always going to score, that's what he does, but it's the way he's been playing that I don't like.

Now if you had said that the first time, I might not have said "hogwash." I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, though, and hope there's still some lingering problem from that ankle.

 

[PoundForPound]

Now if you had said that the first time, I might not have said "hogwash." I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, though, and hope there's still some lingering problem from that ankle.

In all fairness, it's up to you to think whether or not his ankle has anything to do with it, but at what point do you stop cutting him so much slack? He may not be the vocal leader we hoped he would be, but the players still look to him during the game just because he's simply the most talented King. So how do you think it effects them to see their star player giving lackluster effort and no emotion whatsoever? It seems he just doesn't care, and I hope Kings fans are not okay with that mentality. But oh, wait, that ol' ankle must be lingering. Nevermind, it's okay.

 

[VF21]

In all fairness, it's up to you to think whether or not his ankle has anything to do with it, but at what point do you stop cutting him so much slack? He may not be the vocal leader we hoped he would be, but the players still look to him during the game just because he's simply the most talented King. So how do you think it effects them to see their star player giving lackluster effort and no emotion whatsoever? It seems he just doesn't care, and I hope Kings fans are not okay with that mentality. But oh, wait, that ol' ankle must be lingering. Nevermind, it's okay.

I've watched Kev since the first time he stepped on the court as a King. I want to believe there's some reason for what you're calling "lackluster effort" and "no emotion"...

But I guess you'd rather just make pointed sarcastic comments than have a serious discussion about this, so that's all I'm going to say.

 

[PoundForPound]

I've watched Kev since the first time he stepped on the court as a King. I want to believe there's some reason for what you're calling "lackluster effort" and "no emotion"...

But I guess you'd rather just make pointed sarcastic comments than have a serious discussion about this, so that's all I'm going to say.

We all have. But we have never seen him in the kind of situation he's in now. With a team where that he knows isn't going anywhere, has little talent around him, so many coaching changes, etc. Even last season, they simply weren't as bad, and he had players like Ron Artest and Mike Bibby around him (which does make a difference, whether the team is succeeding or not).

P.S. Sorry for the sarcasm I was just trying to get my point across.

 

[kingzallday]

That's the kind of attitude you can't have as a team. I wish you would stop defending the way he's been playing

Ok, he's been having some bad shooting games lately, but to all of a sudden to say he isn't going to try anymore? Remember it was Kevin who almost brought us back against the Hornets...A meaningless game.

You want a player who gives full effort and leaves everything out on the floor, no matter if their team is playing for something or not. K-Mart has been playing completely careless. He's always going to score, that's what he does, but it's the way he's been playing that I don't like.

Yes, I would love a player who does and won't get injured on doing so. Of course he's going to score he's the only one RIGHT NOW with balls to take it to the hole and draw fouls besides Garcia. Like I said before Kevin is having his small stretches of bad shooting games right now.

 

[Bricklayer]

Yes, I would love a player who does and won't get injured on doing so. Of course he's going to score he's the only one RIGHT NOW with balls to take it to the hole and draw fouls besides Garcia. Like I said before Kevin is having his small stretches of bad shooting games right now.

If by "small stretches" you mean a season long Iversonesque .418 suckfest, I will agree.

 

[Oprostaj]

He could be a lot like Josh Smith where his athletic ability is tremendously valuable at PF.

You're setting him up for failure with this. Josh Smith is a freak of nature. What V Carter was for SG, Smith is for PF/SF. He has been injured this whole year so he's not shown it, but this man can cover more court than anybody at his position. He has a so/so shot. Nothing that I would entrust him with taking a last shot, but he can space the floor so much since he can shoot. He has a long way to go before he gets to Josh Smith. I do hope he doesn't inherit his idiotic demeanor though.

 

[HighTopKicks]

If by "small stretches" you mean a season long Iversonesque .418 suckfest, I will agree.

It's not his shooting percentage, it's the kind of shots he's putting up. Last year, he'd go hard to the basket, and if he got stopped he'd rise get off his shot and make it even if he got bumped. That's strong and that's being the man. Someone you could be proud of having on your team.

Now, he just wants to fake someone in to the air, so he can leap into him and have the Refs put him on the line. He's not really trying to make the basket. He's just another slacker, trying to take advantage of the system. I can't sit with my friends and watch the game, and say look at that guy shot. It's embaracing.

 

[Bricklayer]

It's not his shooting percentage, it's the kind of shots he's putting up. Last year, he'd go hard to the basket, and if he got stopped he'd rise get off his shot and make it even if he got bumped. That's strong and that's being the man. Someone you could be proud of having on your team.

Now, he just wants to fake someone in to the air, so he can leap into him and have the Refs put him on the line. He's not really trying to make the basket. He's just another slacker, trying to take advantage of the system. I can't sit with my friends and watch the game, and say look at that guy shot. It's embaracing.

I would agree with all you said here.

As an aside, here's an amazing stat on this topic. Super "efficient" Kevin Martin? Of the Top 50 scorers in the NBA this season, there are exactly FOUR (4 of 50) who shoot less than 42% from the field. Noted chuck and duckers Allen Iverson (.419); Jamaal Crawford (.415) and Stephen Jackson (.413). And our own Kevin Martin (.418).

And of those guys Kevin is the only one who's 3pt shooting % is actually pulling UP his overall FG% -- he shots .426 from 3pt land. The other guys would all have much better percentages if they just laid off the three point shooting (they shoot .349, .347 and .283). Which translated means that in all liklihood Kevin Martin is the absolute dead last, absolute worst, 2pt shooter amongst the NBA's Top 50 scorers this season.

 

[kingzallday]

Check out the postgame interview. SMH @ Martin looking pissed.
I also liked the way Mccants was talking about working on defense.
[yt=kings v pacers 3/3/05 postgame interviews]tcLLoKW9cJE[/yt]

 

[Capt. Factorial]

As an aside, here's an amazing stat on this topic. Super "efficient" Kevin Martin? Of the Top 50 scorers in the NBA this season, there are exactly FOUR (4 of 50) who shoot less than 42% from the field. Noted chuck and duckers Allen Iverson (.419); Jamaal Crawford (.415) and Stephen Jackson (.413). And our own Kevin Martin (.418).

And of those guys Kevin is the only one who's 3pt shooting % is actually pulling UP his overall FG% -- he shots .426 from 3pt land. The other guys would all have much better percentages if they just laid off the three point shooting (they shoot .349, .347 and .283). Which translated means that in all liklihood Kevin Martin is the absolute dead last, absolute worst, 2pt shooter amongst the NBA's Top 50 scorers this season.

So if you look at Kevin's 2PT% this year, it's .415, but if you look at his 2PT% from his career excluding this season, it's .502. That's a huge, huge, huge dropoff. Hopefully it's an aberration and not a sign of things to come.

 

[vikinginferno]

It is because his style of play isn't meant to be the #1 option. He's best as the second option or maybe even the third.

 

[Warhawk]

It is because his style of play isn't meant to be the #1 option. He's best as the second option or maybe even the third.

Or because he is injured, perhaps?

 

[Bricklayer]

Or because he is injured, perhaps?

Yes, a nasty lingering season long injury that only pops up on nights when he sucks and goes away as soon as he does not need an excuse anymore. Wish I could have one of those.

 

[kpm308]

I would agree with all you said here.

As an aside, here's an amazing stat on this topic. Super "efficient" Kevin Martin? Of the Top 50 scorers in the NBA this season, there are exactly FOUR (4 of 50) who shoot less than 42% from the field. Noted chuck and duckers Allen Iverson (.419); Jamaal Crawford (.415) and Stephen Jackson (.413). And our own Kevin Martin (.418).

And of those guys Kevin is the only one who's 3pt shooting % is actually pulling UP his overall FG% -- he shots .426 from 3pt land. The other guys would all have much better percentages if they just laid off the three point shooting (they shoot .349, .347 and .283). Which translated means that in all liklihood Kevin Martin is the absolute dead last, absolute worst, 2pt shooter amongst the NBA's Top 50 scorers this season.

I agree with all that, and I hate seeing him looking for a call every ball fake and every time he puts the ball on the floor. But to base his scoring efficiency on 2pt percentage is very misleading.

Kevin right now is the 7th leading scorer in the league. His True Shooting Percentage, which I believe is a much better indicator of his overall scoring efficiency, is .595, 2.3 points below his career high. This gives him the highest TSP of anyone in the top 14 in scoring with Amare beating him out in the 15th spot. Also the 5th highest among shooting guards, and tied for 10th among all guards playing more than 6 minutes a game.

He's still putting up a lot of points and still putting them up with great efficiency. He's just doing it more from the 3 and from the line. Even though it gets blown out of perspective by Jerry, getting to the line is a very efficient way of putting points on the board. Obviously there are a lot of drawbacks to relying on the line as you're depending on someone else to send you there, which as we've seen this season you can't always count on especially at the end of games.

I can't find a stat but I'd be interested in seeing how many of his baskets are assisted this year vs. the past, because in the past it seems a majority of his 2 point shots were results of his off ball movement, which just has not been there this year, for various reasons, but before was pretty much the calling card of his game. I think as this team develops a functional offense the off ball movement will return and we'll see the 2p % come back up a little. Of course that's looking at it optimistically. I'm much more concerned with regard to Kevin's game in the lack of significant improvement in his passing, which in my opinion will the difference between him maturing into a good scorer vs. an impact type player.

 

[vikinginferno]

Or because he is injured, perhaps?

In sports, you play even when you are hurting and you don't make excuses if you don't play very well. Everyone plays hurt so this excuse does not matter to me.

 

[rainmaker]

I agree with all that, and I hate seeing him looking for a call every ball fake and every time he puts the ball on the floor. But to base his scoring efficiency on 2pt percentage is very misleading.

Kevin right now is the 7th leading scorer in the league. His True Shooting Percentage, which I believe is a much better indicator of his overall scoring efficiency, is .595, 2.3 points below his career high. This gives him the highest TSP of anyone in the top 14 in scoring with Amare beating him out in the 15th spot. Also the 5th highest among shooting guards, and tied for 10th among all guards playing more than 6 minutes a game.

He's still putting up a lot of points and still putting them up with great efficiency. He's just doing it more from the 3 and from the line. Even though it gets blown out of perspective by Jerry, getting to the line is a very efficient way of putting points on the board. Obviously there are a lot of drawbacks to relying on the line as you're depending on someone else to send you there, which as we've seen this season you can't always count on especially at the end of games.

I can't find a stat but I'd be interested in seeing how many of his baskets are assisted this year vs. the past, because in the past it seems a majority of his 2 point shots were results of his off ball movement, which just has not been there this year, for various reasons, but before was pretty much the calling card of his game. I think as this team develops a functional offense the off ball movement will return and we'll see the 2p % come back up a little. Of course that's looking at it optimistically. I'm much more concerned with regard to Kevin's game in the lack of significant improvement in his passing, which in my opinion will the difference between him maturing into a good scorer vs. an impact type player.

I agree with you on the facts that his shooting% in misleading, and the lack of development in his passing game is reason for concern. Kevins teamates don't make his job any easier on offense either. I f Kevin was playing with a pg that actually commanded some attention, and we had a couple 3pt threats to spread the floor, his shooting% would go up to 45+, and his ppg would probably be in the 25-27 a game range.

Bottom line, the lack of talent around Kevin affects his shooting %, and as the talent improves so will his numbers.

 

[kingzallday]

I can't find a stat but I'd be interested in seeing how many of his baskets are assisted this year vs. the past, because in the past it seems a majority of his 2 point shots were results of his off ball movement, which just has not been there this year, for various reasons, but before was pretty much the calling card of his game. I think as this team develops a functional offense the off ball movement will return and we'll see the 2p % come back up a little. Of course that's looking at it optimistically. I'm much more concerned with regard to Kevin's game in the lack of significant improvement in his passing, which in my opinion will the difference between him maturing into a good scorer vs. an impact type player.

I agree with all of this, but Kevin has been moving without the ball. If you watched the last game Kevin had at least 3 or 4 wide open cuts to the basket. But, unfortunately Garcia and Jackson didn't find him which is probably why he looked very pissed in the video I posted.

 

[Oprostaj]

I agree with you on the facts that his shooting% in misleading, and the lack of development in his passing game is reason for concern. Kevins teamates don't make his job any easier on offense either. I f Kevin was playing with a pg that actually commanded some attention, and we had a couple 3pt threats to spread the floor, his shooting% would go up to 45+, and his ppg would probably be in the 25-27 a game range.

Bottom line, the lack of talent around Kevin affects his shooting %, and as the talent improves so will his numbers.

This can go either way. Kevin has never been the vocal and physical leader of this team. He is so because he is the most talented. If you put other scoring threats around him, who is to say that he doesn't defer? Granted, in my mind I agree with you, as it makes sense in principle. However, it's not just the talent around him. I just don't really like his game at the moment. Yes, he was missed on a couple of cuts, but that shouldn't take you out of your game. You need to find other ways to contribute. Get an offensive board (good god no!!) or maybe play tough defense and force a turnover (never! screw you!) I like Kevin. I just think his problems go a little deeper than talent around him. He is a proven, very effective scorer, that is having a down year. Could be the caroussel of coaches, and yes, maybe the injury is lingering (something serious like Deng's bruised shin that is actually fractured :|)

 

[Widowmaker2k]

I'd like to add these to the list of places I wouldn't want to be:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2mhQTyhLjQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfNvyN9shs8

 

[kingsnation]

I'd like to add these to the list of places I wouldn't want to be

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfNvyN9shs8

You're right, I don't want to be anywhere near the guy in the red bandana....