Grades v. Nuggets 11/09

Status
Not open for further replies.

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#1
I almost wanted to sleep on these and do them in the morning -- grades all looked so much better before our complete embarrassing collapse in the 4th quarter. Back to back fatigue? Maybe. But not THAT much fatigue, even from guys who played almost no minutes last night. 24-9?? And the rebounds...ugh.

Peja ( B+ ) -- Just could not give him the A- tonight despite Peja actually hitting the glass for a half (the first of course)! Not exactly a snarling attack in there, but picked up some loose ones, and in traffic tipped a few to other Kings while generally looking like he cared. Shot was still off early, but Rick drew up a three point play for him out of a timeout that worked well and after that he was off and running, knocking down threes from all over the court to account for almost all of his points. Was not dominant, but whenever the Nuggets were dumb enough to leave him open, it was money. Tried to force a few one on one moves, with predictable results. Did make a couple of aggressive drives down the lane, including one in the 4th where he actually drew the defense and dished out a nice wraparound to Reef -- good to see. Is it possible that Peja actually was embarrassed by his performance last night? Unfortunately spoiled some of the good by again --tired refrain -- going away in the 4th. Four points, two off FTs. No rebounds. Not sure I've ever seen such a 3rd/4th quarter differential from a player. he can help us stay close, but then when it comes time to win he just goes away time and again.
Reef ( B- ) -- pretty good start. Scoring wise, had 8pts in the first quarter, and more importantly was playing a key role by assisting on a number of threes -- looks like he may become a potent passer against teams who can't match up with him one on one and need to double (and here the Nene injury really hurt the Nuggets). And the statline looks solid, with a nice healthy 15pts 7rebs 7ast. Problems were that the scoring slowed to a trickle after the first -- just a hoop here and there, and is continuing to miss his FTs. The rebounding was never good enough as we got annihilated in there once more (by 20!). And the interior defense...just a sigh. We are last in the league in blocked shots and Reef is just not there on the challenge as guys go sailing to the rim. Fiddled with this grade a bit. Ticking it up and down. The passing was what kept it buoyed, but our interior softness is really scary right now.
Miller ( C ) -- was doing absolutely nothing until the very end of the first half, then went on a little run to close things out. Unfortunately ended the half on a pee me off note, as he once again let a missed call get into his head, and then made a stupid unforced turnover stepping across the end line with the ball because he was too distracted. Recovered after an apparent Adelman tongue lashing at halftime, and came out in the third quarter playing aggressively. Began to get to the foul line a lot on a series of calls that were, frankly, questionable. But given that they were going our way, that's fine. Lots of missed calls and extra whistles on both sides tonight. Again lost his temper late and kind of cheapshotted Marcus Camby as we were getting spanked late in the game. Fine, but Brad -- how about rebounding instead? Please. Pretty please? How about some interior defense? Maybe step in front of somebody? Not giving us what we need on the defensive side of the ball, and only marginally effective on the other end tonight. 16pts is not bad (even on 4-11 shooting -- did at least post a few guards). However 5 rebounds from your starting center as you get destroyed on the glass most certainly is.
Bonzi ( D ) -- sloppy start, picked up two early fouls and went to the bench on an offensive call
Don't know if it was the reputed asthmatic/altitude problem or what, but just did not have the spark tonight. Grabbed 6 boards, for which we may have to erect a statue of him right next to our classy Big Golden "6" with the Bud Light logo on it, but I barely noticed them. Just could get nothing going, and had a hard time finding good mismatches to exploit in the post with the constant rotatin Denver guards and forwards. Throw in foul trouble and just such a drab performance I don't think there’s really even much to talk about.
Bibby ( C+ ) -- started off hot shooting finally, and had 10pts through the end of the first. Had some good moments, some bad, defensively against Boykins. But just got strangely quiet thereafter. Made a few more plays in the third while we were still competing, but was nowhere to be found by the fourth as the Nuggets pulled away. All of a sudden what had started out as a nice breakout game, became a big nothing with Mike being largely irrelevant. Not awful. Just not important. Like Bonzi, just so very drab after the good start, and there was no super-Bibby to bail us out.
Martin ( C+ ) -- looked steadier, did still force things, but at least not passive. Got the opportunity for extended minutes with Bonzi laboring and in foul trouble. Not an impact performance, but at this point getting 8 points out of a bench player is pretty good with Kevin getting 2/3 of the bench points in this one. Just some shrug backup guard minutes. A couple of bursts of quickness, but no real impact. Not bad, but not important.
Skinner ( D ) -- came in, and one of the first plays got mixed up and allowed Kenyon Martin to go galloping down the lane uncontested for a big dunk. Picked up two quick fouls and was replaced by Thomas. Not much more effective in the second half. Just really empty minutes. I don’t get it. Looked good in preseason. And his game should not depend on offensive chemistry. But he's not rebounding, not having an impact defensively. Rick is bringing him in early now to work with the starters, and its still not helping. The top to bottom malaise on the team is frighteningly difficult to pinpoint when even your hustle guys just aren't.
Thomas ( C- ) -- strong rebounding effort in his first half stint again, but still no offense. And in the 2nd half he started missing easy ones as well. Our bench is completely anemic, and a guy who said he was coming into camp looking to start is just giving us nothing on offense. Sucks too, because we could sure us the boarding help. His grade here is continuing to sink, because as much as I appreciate the boardwork, his offensive funk is starting to get dangerous for both us and his own future with the team.
Hart ( C- ) -- came in and the Nuggets immediately brought in Boykins, played active defense, but absolutely nothing on offense at all and his complete ineffectiveness on that end is getting alarming. 5 games in and our backup PG is averaging 2pts 1ast. At least he tries on the other end.
Corliss ( D ) -- brought in at the end of the first as we *vomit* went with a new mega-mini lineup with KT at PF, and Corliss at center! Yahoo! Played no defense on "Magic" Najera at all, got called for two traveling turnovers (questionable) and really did nothing good before leaving.
Price ( INC ) -- garbagetime.
Sampson ( INC ) -- garbagetime. Grabbed a board, missed 2 FTs.


Adelman ( C ) -- Well...ok. The good. The good....er...well, our 4th quarter meltdown did not come at home, where it SURELY would have resulted in an ugly cascade of boos. And apparently Rick finally tore into the team at halftime - overdue at this point, and paid some temporary dividends as the guys actually got back in transition defense for the next quarter. The bad: pretty much everything else. Even while we were hanging with the Nuggets it seemed to be because they were playing as sloppily and with as little passion as we were. Our interior and transition defense in the first half was just embarrassing, and we made Eduardo Najera look like Magic freaking Johnson on one play as he took the ball length of the court running the middle of the break, throwing in a spin move and finishing with a no look pass. Rick did do a good thing early, calling a three point play for Peja out of a timeout that got him off and running. And he did, as mentioned, tear into the team at halftime apparently with some decent results for a quarter. Was not amused to see him experimenting with a ultra smallball lineup again in the first half (KT/Corliss as our "big men") but did like his move to try to stop the Nuggets from creaming us on the boards by inserting Skinner, Reef, and KT at small forward to try to turn the tide. Did not work. But much preferred the big to the little. Most troubling thing of all was the way that the team just basically quit in the 4th. Not a shocker when Peja disappears in the last stanza, but EVERYBODY did and we just got embarrassed 24-9, and with the Nuggets outhustling us for board after board after board. If I was still in the make excuses phase, I'd say, oh, ok, back to back games and at altitude. But I'm beyiond that with this team, full of relatively young players who did not play mega-minutes last night. And frankly, the ugliness went beyond anything that can be explianed by mere tired legs. Lack of heart is more like it, and that is the big inexcusable. Giving Rick the bumped grade for the overdue halftime tirade and a few decent ingame moves (he was more aggressive than usual with his timeouts too). But the team grade was less again. And if this keeps up I may have to lower my expectations and grading scale across the board. We might not look so awful if we're graded as a lottery team.
 
Last edited:
#4
It's a sad statement when your team's SF "breaks out" for 7 rebounds, yet the team loses the rebounding battle by *20*.
 
#6
4cwebb said:
It's a sad statement when your team's SF "breaks out" for 7 rebounds, yet the team loses the rebounding battle by *20*.
Its a sad statement when you poorest rebounder is one of the leading rebounders in the game for your team.

This team is starting to pee me off. That 4th quarter was pathetic and thats being too polite I am afraid :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
 
#7
Ok, Slim. Pedja was by far the best King on the floor tonight, he pretty much singlehandedly kept is un the game with his threes tonight. If you think he is at most the third best King, who are the two Kings better than him ?
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#9
sloter said:
Ok, Slim. Pedja was by far the best King on the floor tonight, he pretty much singlehandedly kept is un the game with his threes tonight. If you think he is at most the third best King, who are the two Kings better than him ?
By far? Hardly; if his performance tonight was better than Abdur-Rahim's, it was only marginally so.

Stojakovic, as has been said, is a one-trick pony; take away his three-point shot, and he couldn't start for the Hornets.

Through five games of the season, Stojakovic has CLEARLY only been the third-best player on the Kings. Quite frankly, I don't even see how you can even make a cogent argument that he has performed better than either Wells or Abdur-Rahim through the first five games. Both of them have outperformed him across the board: higher FG percentage, more rebounds, more assists, more blocks, more steals.
 
#10
Mr. S£im Citrus said:
By far? Hardly; if his performance tonight was better than Abdur-Rahim's, it was only marginally so.

Stojakovic, as has been said, is a one-trick pony; take away his three-point shot, and he couldn't start for the Hornets.

Through five games of the season, Stojakovic has CLEARLY only been the third-best player on the Kings. Quite frankly, I don't even see how you can even make a cogent argument that he has performed better than either Wells or Abdur-Rahim through the first five games. Both of them have outperformed him across the board: higher FG percentage, more rebounds, more assists, more blocks, more steals.
While Pedja is certainly in my doghouse right now, I cannot imagine where do you come with this BS from.

You know, I am not an expert, but I'd dare to suggest - that positng in a vomit-coloured fonts and assuming hard-a55 tone does not an argument make. You'll have to back up your statements just like the rest of us - even when you are right.
 
#11
Mr. S£im Citrus said:
Stojakovic, as has been said, is a one-trick pony; take away his three-point shot, and he couldn't start for the Hornets.
I agree that he is not a great player, but this is just a dumb comment.

What you're basically saying is, take away Peja's offense and he wouldn't be starting anywhere. The same thing can be applied to a lot of GREAT players in this league.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#13
Stojakovic said:
What you're basically saying is, take away Peja's offense and he wouldn't be starting anywhere. The same thing can be applied to a lot of GREAT players in this league.
No, the same cannot be applied to ANY "GREAT" player in this league; there is no other "GREAT" player that cannot do at least two things well. And even "great" players are utterly dominant in at least one thing. You cannot say that Stojakovic is dominant as a shooter, as he can be completely taken out of his game by inferior players.
 
#14
bozzwell said:
While Pedja is certainly in my doghouse right now, I cannot imagine where do you come with this BS from.

You know, I am not an expert, but I'd dare to suggest - that positng in a vomit-coloured fonts and assuming hard-a55 tone does not an argument make. You'll have to back up your statements just like the rest of us - even when you are right.
Chill out Bozz, you are a long standing member I respect but so is Slim. If we are all going to start going at it like this, imagine what the team is going to be like if we keep losing :eek:.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#15
bozzwell said:
While Pedja is certainly in my doghouse right now, I cannot imagine where do you come with this BS from.

You know, I am not an expert, but I'd dare to suggest - that positng in a vomit-coloured fonts and assuming hard-a55 tone does not an argument make. You'll have to back up your statements just like the rest of us - even when you are right.
Back it up? I clearly stated that Stojakovic, through the first five games, has been outperformed in every relevant statistical category (FG%, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks) by Wells and Abdur-Rahim. That can be mathematically verified.

If, by "back it up," you mean, "do your homework for you," well then... don't hold your breath.

And I'm not retracting my other comment, either; take the three-point shot away from Stojakovic, and he drops to Bostjan Nachbar levels of competence... and Nachbar plays better defense...
 
#16
Mr. S£im Citrus said:
No, the same cannot be applied to ANY "GREAT" player in this league; there is no other "GREAT" player that cannot do at least two things well. And even "great" players are utterly dominant in at least one thing. You cannot say that Stojakovic is dominant as a shooter, as he can be completely taken out of his game by inferior players.
Ben Wallace would not be in this league without his defense. Dirk wouldn't start anywhere without his offense either. Both great players. Would the finals MVP (Billups) be in this league without his shooting ? Hard to say.

Fact is, Peja has his shooting, and his shot ranks among the best all-time. Whether or not he gets shut down by inferior players, his shooting percentages overall still remain great. There are some matchups that cause him trouble (Bowen, Prince in particular), and there are others, if not most where he does just fine. That's exactly what does not make Peja a great player. If he was never shut down, he may well be one of the most, if not the most valuable player in this league. Unfortunately that is not true in reality. Reality is that Peja will never be a great player.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#17
Stojakovic said:
Ben Wallace would not be in this league without his defense. Dirk wouldn't start anywhere without his offense either. Both great players. Would the finals MVP (Billups) be in this league without his shooting ? Hard to say.
There's a difference between "great" and "GREAT." Neither Wallace nor Nowitzki are "GREAT," and Billups doesn't even belong in the conversation.
 
#18
Mr. S£im Citrus said:
Back it up? I clearly stated that Stojakovic, through the first five games, has been outperformed in every relevant statistical category (FG%, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks) by Wells and Abdur-Rahim. That can be mathematically verified.

If, by "back it up," you mean, "do your homework for you," well then... don't hold your breath.

And I'm not retracting my other comment, either; take the three-point shot away from Stojakovic, and he drops to Bostjan Nachbar levels of competence... and Nachbar plays better defense...
Like I said before - 83.2% of all statistics are made up on the spot. While you may not find any humour in that, the fact remains that the sample is simply too small, plus both Bonzi and SAR are the players that can weather the storm, i.e. they can perform even when team doesn't. So, please, again, team is just not performing: what was your point again?
 
#19
How about this: PEJA SUCKS IN CRUNCH TIME. Period. Always has and always will. He's a first half, regular season kind of guy. We aren't going anywhere with that.
 
#21
QueensFan said:
How about this: PEJA SUCKS IN CRUNCH TIME. Period. Always has and always will. He's a first half, regular season kind of guy. We aren't going anywhere with that.
Sad but true.
 
#22
Mr. S£im Citrus said:
There's a difference between "great" and "GREAT." Neither Wallace nor Nowitzki are "GREAT," and Billups doesn't even belong in the conversation.
I assume that when you say "GREAT" you are talking about superstar players. There are only about 4-5 of those in the league, which Peja is clearly not a part of. We're here debating whether Peja is a star ("great") or a bench player (at least without his shooting) according to you.
 
A

AriesMar27

Guest
#23
man.... **** them..... **** 'em all.....

they all get F's.... for giving this game away....
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#25
bozzwell said:
Like I said before - 83.2% of all statistics are made up on the spot. While you may not find any humour in that, the fact remains that the sample is simply too small, plus both Bonzi and SAR are the players that can weather the storm, i.e. they can perform even when team doesn't. So, please, again, team is just not performing: what was your point again?
No, the sample is not too small; the statement was made, in a thread that has since been locked, that Stojakovic has been the best player on the Kings this season-to-date, "without a doubt." I responded by saying that Stojakovic has only been the third-best player on the Kings this season-to-date, and sloter then challenged me in this thread (the other having been locked) to name two players that have been better.

I named two, and stated why. In other words, within the context of the question, the sample size is not too small.


Sooo... I guess that the point is: make sure that you're up to speed on a conversation before you decide to put your two cents in.
 
#26
Stojakovic said:
I assume that when you say "GREAT" you are talking about superstar players. There are only about 4-5 of those in the league, which Peja is clearly not a part of. We're here debating whether Peja is a star ("great") or a bench player (at least without his shooting) according to you.
Peja is definitely a starter. But he isn't a finisher. THAT'S the problem. Guys like Chauncy Billups who have SO MUCH LESS talent than Peja are so much more valuable because as we saw tonight, it's not how you start, it's how you finish.
 

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#27
AriesMar27 said:
man.... **** them..... **** 'em all.....

they all get F's.... for giving this game away....
I believe we have the winner of the "Kings fan of the year award"!!! You truly embody the essence of the 6th man! :rolleyes:

Man its getting ugly in here!
 
#29
QueensFan said:
How about this: PEJA SUCKS IN CRUNCH TIME. Period. Always has and always will. He's a first half, regular season kind of guy. We aren't going anywhere with that.
Eh, again...missing the point. Never said Peja is a great player, and crunch time is when the greats come out.

Just because he "sucks" in crunch time, doesn't mean that he's not important. Take Peja out of the game in crunch time, and leave it all to Bibby (a guy who is great in crunch time, BTW) and you will have a concentration of defenders on him. There are not many players with Peja's range, which makes him so valuable in crunch time even if he never even touches the ball.
 
#30
Stojakovic said:
I agree that he is not a great player, but this is just a dumb comment.

What you're basically saying is, take away Peja's offense and he wouldn't be starting anywhere. The same thing can be applied to a lot of GREAT players in this league.
i'm with you on this one
 
Status
Not open for further replies.